Need advice... 95 Civic dies and won't start, but then starts and is fine.

Thread title about sums it up. Seems to happen as part of the warm up
process???
1st time was when I left the house and got about 5 miles down the road.
This morning (very cold), I started and let it idle for about 10 minutes.
Pulled out of the driveway and got 50 feet and it died. NO stutter,
stumble, misfire... just plain quits. Key off and back ON runs the fuel
pump OK. Crank all you want, but not a single fire. I get out and push the
car back to my driveway. Then try the key and it starts up and runs fine.
Same thing the first time it happened. Traveling along at 55 to 60mph and
it died. Coasted into local gas station. Tried several times to start it,
but would not fire. I was listening for fuel pump that time, but couldn't
here it (too much noise around me, this time I could here it for sure). So
I got out and popped the hood, looked for a fuel pressure relief to just see
if there was fuel pressure but didn't see one. Found the fuse boxes and
quickly checked fuses. Got back inside the car and was digging out my cell
phone when I decided to crank it one more time. Cranked it and it started
instantly and idled perfect.

I'm hoping you guys know of a "typical" problem that causes this exact
symptom. I do need to replace the thermostat... not getting very good heat
and it's running on the cool side. I don't think it's relevent. Temp gauge
was up a good quarter this morning when it died. Then of course, on the
highway it goes back to near COLD. But so far, once the car dies and
restarts, it runs without failing for the rest of the day! I have no idea
how I'm gonna find the problem if it starts and runs fine after. I don't
usually like to "throw parts" at a problem, but sometimes that's the route
to go ; )

All advice much appreciated!
In2

Hi

Next time it happens, see if banging on the side panel near your left
knee helps. I am not suggesting that be a permanent fix but it is
often an indication of the main relay being bad - a very common honda
problem. Once you determine it is indeed the main relay, you can
actually fix it by resoldering its connections.

Tegger, an often contributing member of this group, has set up a very
nice site you'll want to check out:
http://tegger.com/hondafaq/MainRelay.HTM

Hope this helps.
Remco

Thanks, and other suggestions still welcome (just in case) !!!

I also looked at the site you mentioned.

My next questions a
Does the Civic have same relay location?
Is it up in the dash or under the side panel? Or both?

Thanks to any and all!
In2

"Remco" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hi
>
> Next time it happens, see if banging on the side panel near your left
> knee helps. I am not suggesting that be a permanent fix but it is
> often an indication of the main relay being bad - a very common honda
> problem. Once you determine it is indeed the main relay, you can
> actually fix it by resoldering its connections.
>
> Tegger, an often contributing member of this group, has set up a very
> nice site you'll want to check out:
> http://tegger.com/hondafaq/MainRelay.HTM
>
> Hope this helps.
> Remco
>

If is usually mounted near the fuse box on a bracket. I can see the one
on my wife's 95 Integra by just looking up into dashboard. Ours in
mounted along the outside wall - not the fire wall. Suspect yours is
mounted similarly.

If you are familiar with soldering electronic components, I'd take the
relay out and reflow the connections to see if that fixes it.

Here is a picture of the relay mounted in a car:
http://www.markl.f9.co.uk/howto/elec...main-relay.htm
Regards,
Remco

If is usually mounted near the fuse box on a bracket. I can see the one
on my wife's 95 Integra by just looking up into dashboard. Ours in
mounted along the outside wall - not the fire wall. Suspect yours is
mounted similarly.

If you are familiar with soldering electronic components, I'd take the
relay out and reflow the connections to see if that fixes it.
Regards,
Remco

In2hoppn wrote:
> I'm hoping you guys know of a "typical" problem that causes this exact
> symptom.

main relay
ignitor/distributor problem
ignition switch

Thanks Remco!

I've already found 2 fuse panels under the hood, and wonder if it might be
out there... but then again, total number of fuses wasn't that many so it
would surprise me to find more inside. But it's cold out here these days,
and my back is killing me. I did at least get the thermostat and lower
control arm bushing changed. I saw the gound connections. They don't look
too too bad, but I thinks the bolt prefers to break instead of loosen so I
let it be for now. I'll check for resistance (voltage drop method) when I
get a chance. I didn't have my good meter.

I was looking at the tegger site again. I realize my symptoms don't quite
match, as I do get the fuel pump to run it's cycle, and it also never starts
and stalls.

This really kinda sucks, as I wanted to have my wife start running this car
to work and back. But I guess I'm gonna have to do the old "timing light
and multiple test leads out the hood and in the door" trick and keep driving
this thing. That can usually draw some conclusions, except of course when
it just leaves you hauling your equipment all over the place for no reason
because it maybe won't do it again for a week, month, or ever? ; ) But I'm
sure if my wife takes it, it will bother!

Next question...
Any sites around that have good schematics to peak at? I don't have a book,
and would rather junk a car than buy a haynes rag ; ) Or does anyone know
how to unlock the codes on the old alldate disks? I lost the code to my
disk and I guess alldata went out of business with the disk deal.



"Remco" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> If is usually mounted near the fuse box on a bracket. I can see the one
> on my wife's 95 Integra by just looking up into dashboard. Ours in
> mounted along the outside wall - not the fire wall. Suspect yours is
> mounted similarly.
>
> If you are familiar with soldering electronic components, I'd take the
> relay out and reflow the connections to see if that fixes it.
> Regards,
> Remco
>

"SoCalMike" > wrote in message
news:m53yd.304173$R05.9125@attbi_s53...
> In2hoppn wrote:
> > I'm hoping you guys know of a "typical" problem that causes this exact
> > symptom.
>
> main relay
> ignitor/distributor problem
> ignition switch


Thanks SoCalMike! I appreciate the imput.

I've been thinking about the distributor. I'm planning to hook up my timing
light, run the wires from the hood around the door jam and have it inside
the vehicle. Then when it bothers, I can check for spark.

For what it's worth, when it dies the fuel pump will still runs and the MIL,
oil, temp,... all come on indicating "the key is on" for at least most of
the system. I need a good schematic to figure out if all that still leaves
a pole or two not connecting. Same for the main relay. I don't seem to fit
the "typical classic" symptom completely. But I certainly will see what I
can do there. I have a good meter (snapon vantage, but no KV : ( ) and am
hoping to figure out exactly how to be hooked up to check the primary side
so as to isolate the problem if it is loss of spark, and at the same time be
checking for ignition feed?

All help much appreciated! Short of thermostat, control arm bushing, and
rear brake job (disk, rust bolts, fun...) my Honda experience is ZERO! I
may need to do the alldata online thing, but I HATE that because it leaves
the information here and the car there, and I always run into print issues
that just makes it too slow and difficult to deal with.

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 05:50:48 -0500, "In2hoppn"
> wrote:

>Any sites around that have good schematics to peak at?

http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/CivicManual/index.html

You could hook up a small 12V bulb across your coil's primary and see
if the ignitor does its job (it is supposed to flash if ok). Once it
fails you will al least be able to determine if it is before or after
the coil.

Ignitors do fail from time to time -- not sure if they have an
intermittent failure mode because it looks like it is a darlington
transistor to me.
It is into the distributor. You'll see it as a module that has four
wires attached to it - it is mounted on a bracket that comes off with
two screws.

Maybe also check the coil, as the insulation can break down and it will
arc through the case to the distrubutor so perhaps remove it and
visually inspect it for cracks. I guess that could be an intermittent
failure mode.

I have a schematic -- it is out of a haynes manual. This one is fairly
accurate - let me know; I could email you a copy (schematic, that is)
if you need it.

Regards,
Remco