Ford Posts Loss of $5.8 Billion, Worst Since '92

"DeserTBoB" > wrote in message
...
>
> You obviously are oblivious to all the cuts Chrysler workers took to
> keep them afloat in the late '70s/early '80s...sometimes MORE that
> 30%, and that was when interest rates were in the high 'teens.

The American government kept Chrysler afloat. Over night Dodge replaced
the jeep built 5/4 ton truck with an over rated under powered dodge, those
that served will remember the M880 and M890 series trucks as the junk they
were.. Ford Mavericks disappeared out of the TMP Motor Pools and were
replaced with Dodge Aspens. Ford Medium duties disappeared and Dodges came
in their place.
Iacoca took a stripped down Simca 1100 design, slapped a VW 1.7 ltr engine
in it to get it through emissions and sold the snot out of them, along with
the K-cars that followed. Damn things didn't even have automatic brake
adjusters on the rear brakes. Dodge Diplomats became the number one cop
car.

Whitelightning

In article >,
"Bob" > wrote:

> "aarcuda69062" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "Bob" > wrote:
> >
> >> Don't you think it was an improvement?
> >> Bob
> >
> > It's the first honorable thing he's done in a long time.
>
> I think to call it honorable may be a stretch...... let's call it a good
> start.
> Bob

Sorry my friend, I can't use the word good and Snoman in the same
conversation.

"ZombyWoof" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 23:45:24 GMT, "Whitelightning"
> > wrote something wonderfully witty:
>
>>
>>"DeserTBoB" > wrote in message
. ..
>>>
>>> You obviously are oblivious to all the cuts Chrysler workers took to
>>> keep them afloat in the late '70s/early '80s...sometimes MORE that
>>> 30%, and that was when interest rates were in the high 'teens.
>>
>>The American government kept Chrysler afloat. Over night Dodge replaced
>>the jeep built 5/4 ton truck with an over rated under powered dodge, those
>>that served will remember the M880 and M890 series trucks as the junk they
>>were.. Ford Mavericks disappeared out of the TMP Motor Pools and were
>>replaced with Dodge Aspens. Ford Medium duties disappeared and Dodges
>>came
>>in their place.
>>Iacoca took a stripped down Simca 1100 design, slapped a VW 1.7 ltr engine
>>in it to get it through emissions and sold the snot out of them, along
>>with
>>the K-cars that followed. Damn things didn't even have automatic brake
>>adjusters on the rear brakes. Dodge Diplomats became the number one cop
>>car.
>>
> The government certainly did a lot to help keep Chrysler out of the
> dumpster, but so did a lot of other people. Chrysler pushed a lot of
> technology into the American marketplace at that time as well. Pretty
> much inventing the concept of the minivan and bringing the concept of
> frontwheel drive vehicles into the big threes frontal lobes. While
> both cars may not have been much. They certainly sold the hell out of
> them. Chrysler has been sitting on the sidelines through the entire
> SUV war until now just bringing out the Aspen which may be to little
> to late for them in that market segment. I'm surprised they've waited
> this long to compete in that area.

I know. It is not like they bought a company that makes SUVs. Wait, they
did. They bought Jeep. Plus, they made a ton of money on the Durango.

Jeff

> --
>
> You can run, but you'll only die tired.
>
> ZombyWoof

"Jeff" > wrote in message
.net...
>
>
> I know. It is not like they bought a company that makes SUVs. Wait, they
> did. They bought Jeep. Plus, they made a ton of money on the Durango.
>
> Jeff

and lets not forget the Dodge Ramcharger and Plymouth Trailduster.

Whitelightning

"ZombyWoof" > wrote in message
...
> The government certainly did a lot to help keep Chrysler out of the
> dumpster, but so did a lot of other people. Chrysler pushed a lot of
> technology into the American marketplace at that time as well. Pretty
> much inventing the concept of the minivan and bringing the concept of
> frontwheel drive vehicles into the big threes frontal lobes.

How about front wheel drive is cheaper to build. That's the only reason
every manufacturer
that has jumped on that band wagon has jumped on it. a transaxle is 40%
cheaper to manufacture than a transmission assy and rear differential assy.
The rear suspension is cheaper to manufacture because it doesn't have to be
strong enough to handle the torque of moving the vehicle. which means the
chassis doesn't have to be as strong ether. Its got nothing to with
technology and everything to do with cost. I don't see Mercedes jumping on
the front wheel drive band wagon. And with the exception of the Mini Cooper
I don't see BMW doing it ether.
But beyond that, Chevy had the Citation out in 1980, and it was Motor Trends
car of the year in 1980. GM actually had the car in 1979 wanting to race it
as the X-11 in the SSB/SCCA class. Ford was actually working on the front
wheel drive escort with its European counterpart in 1978 as replacement to
the rear wheel drive Escort MKII. Sad really, I had a 1975 Escort MK I, the
last year for the body style, its was a real runner and embarrassed more
than a few muscle cars on the autobahn, and in the mountains.

As to the mini van concept, I think the VW Micro bus and the Chevy Corvair
Greenbrier Van both predate chrysler's mini van entry by about three
decades. Not to leave out the entry in 1961 of the Ford Falcon Van, the
Chevy Sport Van in 64, , and the1964 Dodge A100 for that matter

>While both cars may not have been much. They certainly sold the hell out
of
> them.

Given the number of Yugos imported, Yugo sold the hell out their cars too.
They were cheap.
Mitsibishi sold the hell out of the Precis, and Hyundai its clone of it, the
Excel. I wouldnt wish none of them on anyone, well maybe on one or two
people.
The fact they sold so many just proves the point that there are too many
idiots that would rather buy a piece of junk new car, rather than a
dependable used car.

Whitelightning

It is all relative, I guess. In 1955 the median income was $3,200. I
bought my first HOT car, a Black/White 1955 Buick Century 2 dr hardtop for
around $3,900. My wage at the time a quite respectable $1,84 an hour, about
$3,800 a year.

When I was in college in 1947 I worked in a gas station for the minimum wage
of .25c an hour and gas was .17c. Today the minimum wage is around $5.70,
and going up, to over $7 and gas is down to 2.10 here

mike hunt


"Nemisis" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> SnoMan wrote:
>>
>> I think Ford (and GM and Chysler) is in a lot worse shape than they
>> admit. They only chance any of them have to survive is to get labor
>> cost way down and improve quality. It will never happen in current
>> structuring. They are kidding themselve (managemtn and Labor) if they
>> think they can pull it off otherwise. Prices have reached critical
>> mass and can no longer sell to support current costs and benifits. If
>> they all could cut labor costs 30% or more they could sell vehicle 15%
>> cheaper across the board and make a profit and boost sales but they
>> seem to keep hoping that people will except pay more for their car
>> than some did for a house 20 years ago. The worst is yet to come for
>> them.
>> -----------------
>> TheSnoMan.com
>
> The real culprit in all this is over-regulation by the federal
> government. All of the "safety" and "emissions" regs the automakers
> have to put up with are driving the cost of vehicles beyond the point
> where someone making an average salary can't afford one. I was just
> reading today that the average US family income is $34,500. The
> average cost of a new car is up around $22,000. By that token a new
> car costs 2/3 of income. And a lot of the cost is all this safety and
> emissions equipment. And the feds keep piling it on. I heard
> somewhere that in the 2010 model year all cars are required to be
> drive-by-wire with electronic stability control. By the time the feds
> are done regulating only CEO's and Senators will be able to afford a
> new car!
>
> Mark
>

"Mike Hunter" > wrote in message
...
> It is all relative, I guess. In 1955 the median income was $3,200. I
> bought my first HOT car, a Black/White 1955 Buick Century 2 dr hardtop for
> around $3,900. My wage at the time a quite respectable $1,84 an hour,
> about $3,800 a year.
>
> When I was in college in 1947 I worked in a gas station for the minimum
> wage of .25c an hour

You are off by a lot. The minimum wage was not a quarter of a cent, but
rather 40 cents.


and gas was .17c. Today the minimum wage is around $5.70,
> and going up, to over $7 and gas is down to 2.10 here

Actually, the minimum wage varies by state, but the feds set it at $5.15 an
hour.

http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/chart.htm

>
> mike hunt
>
>
> "Nemisis" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>>
>> SnoMan wrote:
>>>
>>> I think Ford (and GM and Chysler) is in a lot worse shape than they
>>> admit. They only chance any of them have to survive is to get labor
>>> cost way down and improve quality. It will never happen in current
>>> structuring. They are kidding themselve (managemtn and Labor) if they
>>> think they can pull it off otherwise. Prices have reached critical
>>> mass and can no longer sell to support current costs and benifits. If
>>> they all could cut labor costs 30% or more they could sell vehicle 15%
>>> cheaper across the board and make a profit and boost sales but they
>>> seem to keep hoping that people will except pay more for their car
>>> than some did for a house 20 years ago. The worst is yet to come for
>>> them.
>>> -----------------
>>> TheSnoMan.com
>>
>> The real culprit in all this is over-regulation by the federal
>> government. All of the "safety" and "emissions" regs the automakers
>> have to put up with are driving the cost of vehicles beyond the point
>> where someone making an average salary can't afford one. I was just
>> reading today that the average US family income is $34,500. The
>> average cost of a new car is up around $22,000. By that token a new
>> car costs 2/3 of income. And a lot of the cost is all this safety and
>> emissions equipment. And the feds keep piling it on. I heard
>> somewhere that in the 2010 model year all cars are required to be
>> drive-by-wire with electronic stability control. By the time the feds
>> are done regulating only CEO's and Senators will be able to afford a
>> new car!
>>
>> Mark
>>
>
>

Whatever, but I know I was paid a quarted an hour and 5c on each can quart
of oil

mike


"Jeff" > wrote in message
et...
>
> "Mike Hunter" > wrote in message
> ...
>> It is all relative, I guess. In 1955 the median income was $3,200. I
>> bought my first HOT car, a Black/White 1955 Buick Century 2 dr hardtop
>> for around $3,900. My wage at the time a quite respectable $1,84 an
>> hour, about $3,800 a year.
>>
>> When I was in college in 1947 I worked in a gas station for the minimum
>> wage of 25c an hour
>
> You are off by a lot. The minimum wage was not a quarter of a cent, but
> rather 40 cents.
>
>
> and gas was .17c. Today the minimum wage is around $5.70,
>> and going up, to over $7 and gas is down to 2.10 here
>
> Actually, the minimum wage varies by state, but the feds set it at $5.15
> an hour.
>
> http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/chart.htm
>
>>
>> mike hunt
>>
>>