EPA caught VW cheating - how does the car know it's being tested?

On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 04:42:00 +0000, Ewald Böhm wrote:

> On Fri, 18 Sep 2015 22:45:53 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>> I also find it interesting that a large allegedly reputable company
>> would do something intentional to cheat like that. Too easy to get
>> caught or ratted out.
>
> According to the news reports, VW admitted culpability.
>
> If I were the owner of the affected cars, I would NOT bring them in for
> the recall, since it's not a safety issue.
>
> They will definitely lose performance after the "fix" (while they will
> also do worse on emissions testing results).
>
> It's a lose:lose situation for the car owner to get the car "fixed", I
> think, because of those two results.
>
> Do you agree?
> Is there anything "good" that will happen if the owners "fix" their
> cars?

Possibly the insurance companies might deny liability for any claims if
the car has not been maintained in accordance with the manufacturer's
recommendations? They're well known for trying any get-outs they can and
the courts generally find in favour of them due to the doctrine of
'utmost good faith' which applies to insurance contracts.

On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 00:12:53 -0500, mike > wrote:

> On 9/18/2015 9:42 PM, Ewald Böhm wrote:
>> On Fri, 18 Sep 2015 22:45:53 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>
>>> I also find it interesting that a large allegedly reputable company
>>> would do something intentional to cheat like that. Too easy to get
>>> caught or ratted out.
>>
>> According to the news reports, VW admitted culpability.
>>
>> If I were the owner of the affected cars, I would NOT bring them in for
>> the recall, since it's not a safety issue.
>>
>> They will definitely lose performance after the "fix" (while they will
>> also do worse on emissions testing results).
>>
>> It's a lose:lose situation for the car owner to get the car "fixed", I
>> think, because of those two results.
>>
>> Do you agree?
>> Is there anything "good" that will happen if the owners "fix" their
>> cars?
>>
> Will you have any choice?
> If the test procedure for those cars is changed to test the "real"
> emissions, they will FAIL.
> If you care about air quality, you have to do that.
> Here in Oregon, you don't get your license plates renewed if you fail.

Some cut.

Some states, like Nebraska, do no testing. We had some testing
for horns, lights, etc. back in the 70s, but dropped it. I think
the testers hollered too loud about the low testing fee allowed.
I wonder how many of the non-compliant vehicles will end up in
states with no testing.

--
Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

"EwaldBöhm" wrote in message ...

Apparently Volkswagen/Audi cheated on the USA emissions tests since
2009 to 2015 by turning off the EGR to lower nitrogen oxide emissions
ONLY when the car was being tested for emissions.

REFERENCES:
http://blog.ucsusa.org/volkswagen-ca...cle-recall-887
http://www.engineering.com/AdvancedM...EPA-Tests.aspx
http://hothardware.com/news/vw-inten...-482k-vehicles
etc.

My question is HOW did the car *know* it was being *tested* for emissions?

My question is HOW did they name you ewald?
LOL

On 9/19/2015 8:40 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 00:12:53 -0500, mike > wrote:
>
>>> If I were the owner of the affected cars, I would NOT bring them in for
>>> the recall, since it's not a safety issue.
>>>
>>> They will definitely lose performance after the "fix" (while they will
>>> also do worse on emissions testing results).
>>>
>>> It's a lose:lose situation for the car owner to get the car "fixed", I
>>> think, because of those two results.
>
>>> Do you agree?
>>> Is there anything "good" that will happen if the owners "fix" their
>>> cars?
>>>
>> Will you have any choice?
>> If the test procedure for those cars is changed to test the "real"
>> emissions, they will FAIL.
>> If you care about air quality, you have to do that.
>> Here in Oregon, you don't get your license plates renewed if you fail.
>
> Some cut.
>
> Some states, like Nebraska, do no testing. We had some testing
> for horns, lights, etc. back in the 70s, but dropped it. I think
> the testers hollered too loud about the low testing fee allowed.
> I wonder how many of the non-compliant vehicles will end up in
> states with no testing.

Passenger car testing of any type has ALWAYS been a scam
and is enacted for generating revenue. Nothing more, nothing
less. "Unsafe" cars have NEVER been a significant proximate
cause of accidents nor does smog testing of these vehicles
lead to measurably cleaner air. These two concerns are best
addressed at time of manufacture.

On 9/19/2015 12:42 AM, Ewald Böhm wrote:

>
> If I were the owner of the affected cars, I would NOT bring them in for
> the recall, since it's not a safety issue.
>
> They will definitely lose performance after the "fix" (while they will
> also do worse on emissions testing results).
>
> It's a lose:lose situation for the car owner to get the car "fixed", I
> think, because of those two results.
>
> Do you agree?
> Is there anything "good" that will happen if the owners "fix" their cars?
>

You can feel good that the spotted owl is not choking on your fumes.
The only way to force you to get the fix is if the car will no longer
pass unless it was done. I don't know if the eqipment doing th testing
will be able to tell.

On 9/19/2015 9:17 AM, Cursitor Doom wrote:

>> Is there anything "good" that will happen if the owners "fix" their
>> cars?
>
> Possibly the insurance companies might deny liability for any claims if
> the car has not been maintained in accordance with the manufacturer's
> recommendations? They're well known for trying any get-outs they can and
> the courts generally find in favour of them due to the doctrine of
> 'utmost good faith' which applies to insurance contracts.
>

Do you know of any claims denied because the owner did not get an oil
change? Dirty air filter?

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 9/19/2015 12:42 AM, Ewald Böhm wrote:
>
>> If I were the owner of the affected cars, I would NOT bring them in for
>> the recall, since it's not a safety issue.
>>
>> They will definitely lose performance after the "fix" (while they will
>> also do worse on emissions testing results).
>>
>> It's a lose:lose situation for the car owner to get the car "fixed", I
>> think, because of those two results.
>>
>> Do you agree?
>> Is there anything "good" that will happen if the owners "fix" their cars?
>>
>
> You can feel good that the spotted owl is not choking on your fumes.
> The only way to force you to get the fix is if the car will no longer
> pass unless it was done. I don't know if the eqipment doing th testing
> will be able to tell.

Sure will. You have to enter the VIN into the system to start the
inspection. IF the EPA requires a recall to reflash the ECM to remove
that software and "correct" the problem, that would have to be done at a
dealer. They will track completed vehicles by VIN. The state can just
flag ALL those vehicles. You pull in, they plug in the tester, and your
VIN doesn't show on the "recall complete" list. You don't get inspected.

That has happened before for other recalls. I'm betting the fix will be
to re-flash the ECM software to remove the "switch". Then run each one
through the full EPA test regardless of registration state. That because
this if a federal law that was broken.

What will be fun will be watching all the johnny racer types who
modified the cars by removing emissions gear and "tuning" the ECM. VW
could actually show them to the EPA and say "THEY removed the systems so
they should pay a fine as well".

--
Steve W.

On 9/19/2015 11:12 AM, Steve W. wrote:
>
> Sure will. You have to enter the VIN into the system to start the
> inspection. IF the EPA requires a recall to reflash the ECM to remove
> that software and "correct" the problem, that would have to be done at a
> dealer. They will track completed vehicles by VIN. The state can just
> flag ALL those vehicles. You pull in, they plug in the tester, and your
> VIN doesn't show on the "recall complete" list. You don't get inspected.
>
> That has happened before for other recalls. I'm betting the fix will be
> to re-flash the ECM software to remove the "switch". Then run each one
> through the full EPA test regardless of registration state. That because
> this if a federal law that was broken.
>
> What will be fun will be watching all the johnny racer types who
> modified the cars by removing emissions gear and "tuning" the ECM. VW
> could actually show them to the EPA and say "THEY removed the systems so
> they should pay a fine as well".

When has the EPA ever gone after individual passenger car vehicle owners?

On 9/19/2015 12:12 PM, Steve W. wrote:

>> I don't know if the equipment doing the testing
>> will be able to tell.
>
> Sure will. You have to enter the VIN into the system to start the
> inspection. IF the EPA requires a recall to reflash the ECM to remove
> that software and "correct" the problem, that would have to be done at a
> dealer. They will track completed vehicles by VIN.

Ahhh, that will do it. The spotted owl breaths easier.

On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 04:42:00 +0000 (UTC), Ewald Böhm
> wrote:

>On Fri, 18 Sep 2015 22:45:53 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>> I also find it interesting that a large allegedly reputable company
>> would do something intentional to cheat like that. Too easy to get
>> caught or ratted out.
>
>According to the news reports, VW admitted culpability.
>
>If I were the owner of the affected cars, I would NOT bring them in for
>the recall, since it's not a safety issue.

May not be able to pass emmissions next year if the recall is not
done.
>
>They will definitely lose performance after the "fix" (while they will
>also do worse on emissions testing results).
>
The "fix" may be a lot more involved than removing the "over-ride"
code.
>It's a lose:lose situation for the car owner to get the car "fixed", I
>think, because of those two results.
>
>Do you agree?
>Is there anything "good" that will happen if the owners "fix" their cars?