Older car insurance

A number of folks here own older VW's.

Some of us have paid over book value for hard to find ones in very good
condition, and then spent even more to restore them mechanically and
cosmetically.

But, when one of these is in an accident the insurance company goes by book
value or, if they're flexible, will look around to see what they're actually
selling for. This still turns up a value that's pretty much always way below
what it will cost you to repair or replace the car.

My insurance company has no provision for a car repaired or enhanced beyond
book or current-resale value. I'd be fine with paying higher rates if I could
get increased coverage, but they don't have a provision for that. So, pretty
much any accident results in the car being totaled. You can keep the car, and
repair it, but all you get is the total loss value.

Has anyone solve this? Is there a company that will insure for it's true
replacement value?

- Bill

On Tue, 30 May 2006 10:23:42 -0400, in rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled
(message >), William J.
Leary Jr. > wrote:

>
> Has anyone solve this? Is there a company that will insure for it's true
> replacement value?

I doubt it: it wouldn't be profitable. But you can probably get some
additional coverage from classic car insurers.

The problem, of course, is that the cost of the insurance is unlikely
to be economical: they're going to look at the amount you're covered
for, look at the liklihood they'll have to pay out given the risk pool
you're putting yourself into (i.e. "classic car nuts" as compared to
"all drivers"), and rate you accordingly. You'd probably be better off
just to put the money aside into a savings account, and mitigate your
risk that way.

A

You have to read the fine print of your policy, for mine it says replacement
value, which means what it would cost to replace the car, if I think the
value they give is too low they have to find me a car in the same condition
with about the same mileage for that price and if they can't then they have
to give me more money. You have to know how to press the point with them and
also your rights under your policy. It's also a good idea to have some
documentation of the condition of your car(pictures and even an appraisal).


"William J. Leary Jr." > wrote in message
. ..
A number of folks here own older VW's.

Some of us have paid over book value for hard to find ones in very good
condition, and then spent even more to restore them mechanically and
cosmetically.

But, when one of these is in an accident the insurance company goes by book
value or, if they're flexible, will look around to see what they're actually
selling for. This still turns up a value that's pretty much always way
below
what it will cost you to repair or replace the car.

My insurance company has no provision for a car repaired or enhanced beyond
book or current-resale value. I'd be fine with paying higher rates if I
could
get increased coverage, but they don't have a provision for that. So,
pretty
much any accident results in the car being totaled. You can keep the car,
and
repair it, but all you get is the total loss value.

Has anyone solve this? Is there a company that will insure for it's true
replacement value?

- Bill

"Andrew Sullivan" > wrote in message
s.org...
> On Tue, 30 May 2006 10:23:42 -0400, in rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled
> (message >), William J.
> Leary Jr. > wrote:
> >
> > Has anyone solve this? Is there a company that will insure for it's true
> > replacement value?
>
> I doubt it: it wouldn't be profitable. But you can probably get some
> additional coverage from classic car insurers.
>
> The problem, of course, is that the cost of the insurance is unlikely
> to be economical: they're going to look at the amount you're covered
> for, look at the liklihood they'll have to pay out given the risk pool
> you're putting yourself into (i.e. "classic car nuts" as compared to
> "all drivers"), and rate you accordingly.

You're correct, of course. I probably should have explained that I used to be
in the insurance business. I understand the mechanisms. I was hoping there
was something I'd missed. And there is. I hadn't considered classic car
insurers. I'll look into that.

> You'd probably be better off
> just to put the money aside into a savings account, and mitigate your
> risk that way.

In general, that's probably a good idea. However, my most recent dust-up
occurred less than four months after getting the car for several thousand, then
putting a few more into repairs. I've got close to $8K invested in it, but
upon totalling it, I only got $2.6K out. As it happend, I *had* put some money
aside, but it had only built up to a few hundred at that point.

Thanks for the idea, I'll look into that. I'd like to have something in place
before I take it out of the shop for these repairs.

- Bill

"Archangel" > wrote in message
news:t_Zeg.4877$QB1.1261@trndny02...
> You have to read the fine print of your policy, for mine it says replacement
> value, which means what it would cost to replace the car, if I think the
> value they give is too low they have to find me a car in the same condition
> with about the same mileage for that price and if they can't then they have
> to give me more money.

Actually, the guy who adjusted my car did exactly this. He went online and
looked up cars of the same year and in the same described condition. He even
expanded the search a year on each side. Then took a high average price rather
than the most or least expensive.

> You have to know how to press the point with them and
> also your rights under your policy. It's also a good idea to have some
> documentation of the condition of your car(pictures and even an appraisal).

I have before pictures, but he just took my word for it. I pointed him to an
on-line sale and said my car was identical to the one I indicated, except that
that one had a nicer sound system. As it happened, he actually settled with me
for a bit more than the car I pointed out to him. He found a couple I didn't
and it raised the bar a few hundred dollars.

I really don't have an argument with my current company for what they did. I'm
just trying to find a way to cover the gap. In fact, what I'm looking for is
something like gap insurance, except that that's only for new or nearly new
cars.

- Bill

In rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled, Andrew Sullivan wrote:

>The problem, of course, is that the cost of the insurance is unlikely
>to be economical: they're going to look at the amount you're covered
>for, look at the liklihood they'll have to pay out given the risk pool
>you're putting yourself into (i.e. "classic car nuts" as compared to
>"all drivers"), and rate you accordingly.

When you put it that way, that sounds like a good thing. I would
guess the lower volumes would work against you, but that the pool
experience would may be better than average.

> You'd probably be better off
>just to put the money aside into a savings account, and mitigate your
>risk that way.

I find that collision insurance is more of a way to limit stress in
a stressful time.

"Tom's VR6" > wrote in message
...
> In rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled, Andrew Sullivan wrote:
> > You'd probably be better off
> >just to put the money aside into a savings account, and mitigate your
> >risk that way.
>
> I find that collision insurance is more of a way to limit stress in
> a stressful time.

Good point. And now that you mention it, this is at least part of what I'm
looking for.

The car is going into the shop in a week or so. It's going to be $4-5K to fix
it. At this point I'll have $12K involved in a car with an averaged
replacement value of $2,500. It's not even fixed yet and I'm already afraid to
drive it home!

- Bill

In article >,
William J. Leary Jr. > wrote:
>I have before pictures, but he just took my word for it. I pointed him to an
>on-line sale and said my car was identical to the one I indicated, except that
>that one had a nicer sound system. As it happened, he actually settled with me
>for a bit more than the car I pointed out to him. He found a couple I didn't
>and it raised the bar a few hundred dollars.
>
>I really don't have an argument with my current company for what they did. I'm
>just trying to find a way to cover the gap. In fact, what I'm looking for is
>something like gap insurance, except that that's only for new or nearly new
>cars.

Does that mean that you originally overpaid for the car that was
destroyed? Also, couldn't you just take the settlement and buy
one of the cars for sale that was used to give the valuation to
get a reasonable replacement for the car that was destroyed?

Or was the car that was destroyed one where the insurance valuation
methods may have undervalued it (e.g. higher mileage, but perfect
mechanical condition, or a rare submodel with few enough sales that
comparables are more common submodels with inaccurate valuation
adjustment for the rare submodel)?

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee
Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome.
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.

"Timothy J. Lee" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> William J. Leary Jr. > wrote:
> >I have before pictures, but he just took my word for it. I pointed him to
an
> >((..omitted..))
> >something like gap insurance, except that that's only for new or nearly new
> >cars.
>
> Does that mean that you originally overpaid for the car that was
> destroyed?

Paid above list, yes. Overpaid, no. You get what you pay for. The only
places I found cars which were claimed to be in similar condition at the time
were Florida, Arizona and California. Once I added either shipping, or my
going to get it and drive it back, the price was even higher than what I did
pay. And this car I could examine before I committed anything more than 50
miles of driving to go see it. It was (and except for the very front end still
is) in amazingly good condition body wise. I've seen five year old cars look
worse than this nineteen year old one did when I got it.

> Also, couldn't you just take the settlement and buy
> one of the cars for sale that was used to give the valuation
> to get a reasonable replacement for the car that was
> destroyed?

No. This one was in excellent body condition, and I've fixed all the
mecahnical issues. I could by another one for a similar, or somewhat lower,
price, but I'd still have one with unknown mechanical issues.

> Or was the car that was destroyed one where the insurance valuation
> methods may have undervalued it (e.g. higher mileage, but perfect
> mechanical condition, or a rare submodel with few enough sales that
> comparables are more common submodels with inaccurate valuation
> adjustment for the rare submodel)?

I've had this discusison with several insurance companies and a couple of
insurance agents. They're basically just not set up for anything (the word
they pretty much all used) "exotic." They go by either "the book," or, if
they're more creative, they'll check the net. The other side, of course, is
that I paid insurance based on that book or the net values. Reasonably, if I
expected $8K for a total loss, I should have paid insurance on a potential $8K
total loss.

- Bill

In article >,
William J. Leary Jr. > wrote:
>"Tom's VR6" > wrote in message
.. .
>> In rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled, Andrew Sullivan wrote:
>> > You'd probably be better off
>> >just to put the money aside into a savings account, and mitigate your
>> >risk that way.
>>
>> I find that collision insurance is more of a way to limit stress in
>> a stressful time.
>
>Good point. And now that you mention it, this is at least part of what I'm
>looking for.
>
>The car is going into the shop in a week or so. It's going to be $4-5K to fix
>it. At this point I'll have $12K involved in a car with an averaged
>replacement value of $2,500. It's not even fixed yet and I'm already afraid to
>drive it home!
>
> - Bill
>
>

This can't be a watercooled VW. They are not worth collecting. Me thinks you
should go to the aircooled group and ask your question. I'm sure as an
ex insurance snakeoiler, you would know the older bugs are worth a lot more.
There are insurance companies that insure collectors. You have to get the
car appraised and show how much you put in.


--
Jeeps and dubs and everything's nice...