Do I really need rear brakes?

Hi folks,
I have now got around to pulling off my rear drum to have a lookey at the
rear brakes. The situation was that I failed for braking differential
between the front and the rear brakes in the state inspection. The
assumption was that the rear brakes were worn out at 90K miles. I had done
the fronts some time ago. I was expecting to have to bring the drums down
to the shop to have them cut while I swap out the shoe parts. To my
surprise, it all actually looks to me to still be OK, with a lot of pad
left.

I posted a few pictures (the first time I have done that - yep I am so
proud...my daughter helped me there - links below) that I would like you to
please look at and either confirm that I do not need new brakes or set me
straight in whatever way I need it.

When I took off the drum, before I messed with the star adjuster, it seemed
kind of loose to my uncalibrated feel. The drum was loose enough to rattle
in my hand on the studs, it just would not come of due to the ridges in the
drum. When I was adjusting the shoes to be able to get the drum off, I
first moved it a bit in the wrong direction and it tightened up so the drum
did not move. It seemed like there was a bit of adjusting done to get that
far. It is all dry in there - no leaks.

So here is what I am thinking now. All I need to do is put it back together
and adjust to wheel stoppage and then back off a bit so it moves with just a
little resistance. Then try running it through inspection (which is free)
again. Cool?

I am wondering at this point why they would need to be adjusted. Do they
not self adjust when I back out of the garage every day? Is this something
I need to do periodically? What is up with this?

Thanks folks for your insight.
Tomes
(also posted to other NGs)

The picture links:
Entire assembly.
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/CIMG1001.jpg
Top of rear shoe
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/CIMG1002.jpg
Top of front shoe
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/CIMG0999.jpg
Drum - no gouges at all on surface that is meeting up with the pads
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/CIMG1000.jpg

The star wheel adjusters sometimes stop working for lubricant failure or
corrosion. Take them apart and lubricate the threads with a high quality
"anti-seize" type of lubricant. If they were loose as you say, this could
cause a delay in application of the shoes and make it fail a braking
differential test. You do need rear brakes, to sort of straighten you out
in a stop. The wear you are describing sounds normal for 90k miles.

Earle

"Tomes" > wrote in message
...
> Hi folks,
> I have now got around to pulling off my rear drum to have a lookey at the
> rear brakes. The situation was that I failed for braking differential
> between the front and the rear brakes in the state inspection. The
> assumption was that the rear brakes were worn out at 90K miles. I had
> done the fronts some time ago. I was expecting to have to bring the drums
> down to the shop to have them cut while I swap out the shoe parts. To my
> surprise, it all actually looks to me to still be OK, with a lot of pad
> left.
>
> I posted a few pictures (the first time I have done that - yep I am so
> proud...my daughter helped me there - links below) that I would like you
> to please look at and either confirm that I do not need new brakes or set
> me straight in whatever way I need it.
>
> When I took off the drum, before I messed with the star adjuster, it
> seemed kind of loose to my uncalibrated feel. The drum was loose enough
> to rattle in my hand on the studs, it just would not come of due to the
> ridges in the drum. When I was adjusting the shoes to be able to get the
> drum off, I first moved it a bit in the wrong direction and it tightened
> up so the drum did not move. It seemed like there was a bit of adjusting
> done to get that far. It is all dry in there - no leaks.
>
> So here is what I am thinking now. All I need to do is put it back
> together and adjust to wheel stoppage and then back off a bit so it moves
> with just a little resistance. Then try running it through inspection
> (which is free) again. Cool?
>
> I am wondering at this point why they would need to be adjusted. Do they
> not self adjust when I back out of the garage every day? Is this
> something I need to do periodically? What is up with this?
>
> Thanks folks for your insight.
> Tomes
> (also posted to other NGs)
>
> The picture links:
> Entire assembly.
> http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/CIMG1001.jpg
> Top of rear shoe
> http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/CIMG1002.jpg
> Top of front shoe
> http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/CIMG0999.jpg
> Drum - no gouges at all on surface that is meeting up with the pads
> http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/CIMG1000.jpg
>
>
>
>



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Tomes wrote:

> Hi folks,
> I have now got around to pulling off my rear drum to have a lookey at the
> rear brakes. The situation was that I failed for braking differential
> between the front and the rear brakes in the state inspection. The
> assumption was that the rear brakes were worn out at 90K miles. I had
> done
> the fronts some time ago. I was expecting to have to bring the drums down
> to the shop to have them cut while I swap out the shoe parts. To my
> surprise, it all actually looks to me to still be OK, with a lot of pad
> left.
>
> I posted a few pictures (the first time I have done that - yep I am so
> proud...my daughter helped me there - links below) that I would like you
> to please look at and either confirm that I do not need new brakes or set
> me straight in whatever way I need it.
>
> When I took off the drum, before I messed with the star adjuster, it
> seemed
> kind of loose to my uncalibrated feel. The drum was loose enough to
> rattle in my hand on the studs, it just would not come of due to the
> ridges in the
> drum. When I was adjusting the shoes to be able to get the drum off, I
> first moved it a bit in the wrong direction and it tightened up so the
> drum
> did not move. It seemed like there was a bit of adjusting done to get
> that
> far. It is all dry in there - no leaks.
>
> So here is what I am thinking now. All I need to do is put it back
> together and adjust to wheel stoppage and then back off a bit so it moves
> with just a
> little resistance. Then try running it through inspection (which is free)
> again. Cool?
>
> I am wondering at this point why they would need to be adjusted. Do they
> not self adjust when I back out of the garage every day? Is this
> something
> I need to do periodically? What is up with this?
>
> Thanks folks for your insight.

Looks can be deceiving. I've had shoes glaze on me, soaked up grease or
brake fluid (see any leaks in that wheel?) and wheel cylinders freeze.
All "looked" good.

Since you know there was something amiss, try this: lightly sand the shoes -
just enough to break any glaze. Loosen the parking brake cable to the
point it just flops. Press one end of the wheel cylinder and see if the
other side moves. Pull the rubber cap back and look for fluid in the cap -
if it's wet at all, replace the wheel cylinder or put in new cups (do they
still sell those things?) and change the shoes. Remount the brakes and
adjust them so that the wheel locks, then back of about 4 clicks on the
star wheel. Last step is to adjust the parking brake. NEVER adjust the
brakes with the parking brake cable tightened - always back it off, adjust
the brakes, then reset the parking brake! Bleed the brakes carefully - you
may just have a little air in the rear lines.

If the shoes were glazed, the sanding will probably get you by the
inspection but they will glaze again real soon.

Shoes are cheap - cheaper than your labor to remove and re-install them -
but it might take a while to get new ones to set if you don't arc them.

Beyond that, you are looking at the proportioner valve not dividing the
pressure correctly

--
Will Honea

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Tomes wrote:
> Hi folks,

> So here is what I am thinking now. All I need to do is put it back
> together and adjust to wheel stoppage and then back off a bit so it
> moves with just a little resistance. Then try running it through
> inspection (which is free) again. Cool?

Look behind the star wheel, there should be a rubber plug (or a hole)
This is for adjusting the brakes once they are on. Put the drum on
and use a flatblade screwdriver to slowly turn the star wheel till the
drum just starts to rub the pads. (they make a release tool to move
the adjuster arm back, the arm will keep you from turning the star
wheel the wrong way) I use a second screwdriver. If your comfortable
with this then turn the star wheel till the drum can't be turned easily
by hand, then release the adjuster arm and back the star wheel off a couple
of notches.

Those pads and drum look worn. Hard to tell how deep the ridge is in there
but I'd check prices for new drums and pads. Sometimes it's actually
cheaper than having them turned.

> I am wondering at this point why they would need to be adjusted. Do
> they not self adjust when I back out of the garage every day? Is
> this something I need to do periodically? What is up with this?

They self adjust (sometimes). I've found that every so often if the
jeep is level and I don't have the brakes on, that pulling up on the
e-brake a few times tightens things up.

One of the big problems is the adjusting wheel (star wheel) getting
full of crud. I prefer to clean the whole thing out and use some
chassis lube on the threads.

--
DougW

If those were mine, I'd replace the drums due to the scoring. And because
it's a good idea to replace pads on new discs / drums, I'd replace the pads
as well. I've never had a vehicle in which the automatic adjusters worked
that well, but yes you are right in theory that they should adjust when you
reverse.

Out of interest, what is your handbrake like ?

Dave Milne, Scotland

"Tomes" > wrote in message
...
> Hi folks,
> I have now got around to pulling off my rear drum to have a lookey at the
> rear brakes. The situation was that I failed for braking differential
> between the front and the rear brakes in the state inspection. The
> assumption was that the rear brakes were worn out at 90K miles. I had
done
> the fronts some time ago. I was expecting to have to bring the drums down
> to the shop to have them cut while I swap out the shoe parts. To my
> surprise, it all actually looks to me to still be OK, with a lot of pad
> left.
>
> I posted a few pictures (the first time I have done that - yep I am so
> proud...my daughter helped me there - links below) that I would like you
to
> please look at and either confirm that I do not need new brakes or set me
> straight in whatever way I need it.
>
> When I took off the drum, before I messed with the star adjuster, it
seemed
> kind of loose to my uncalibrated feel. The drum was loose enough to
rattle
> in my hand on the studs, it just would not come of due to the ridges in
the
> drum. When I was adjusting the shoes to be able to get the drum off, I
> first moved it a bit in the wrong direction and it tightened up so the
drum
> did not move. It seemed like there was a bit of adjusting done to get
that
> far. It is all dry in there - no leaks.
>
> So here is what I am thinking now. All I need to do is put it back
together
> and adjust to wheel stoppage and then back off a bit so it moves with just
a
> little resistance. Then try running it through inspection (which is free)
> again. Cool?
>
> I am wondering at this point why they would need to be adjusted. Do they
> not self adjust when I back out of the garage every day? Is this
something
> I need to do periodically? What is up with this?
>
> Thanks folks for your insight.
> Tomes
> (also posted to other NGs)
>
> The picture links:
> Entire assembly.
> http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/CIMG1001.jpg
> Top of rear shoe
> http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/CIMG1002.jpg
> Top of front shoe
> http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/CIMG0999.jpg
> Drum - no gouges at all on surface that is meeting up with the pads
> http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/CIMG1000.jpg
>
>
>
>

"DougW" ...
> Tomes wrote:
>> Hi folks,
>
>> So here is what I am thinking now. All I need to do is put it back
>> together and adjust to wheel stoppage and then back off a bit so it
>> moves with just a little resistance. Then try running it through
>> inspection (which is free) again. Cool?
>
> Look behind the star wheel, there should be a rubber plug (or a hole)
> This is for adjusting the brakes once they are on.

That is what I used to adjust them to get the drum off.

> Put the drum on
> and use a flatblade screwdriver to slowly turn the star wheel till the
> drum just starts to rub the pads. (they make a release tool to move
> the adjuster arm back, the arm will keep you from turning the star
> wheel the wrong way)

Hmmm - I was able to move the star both directions in getting the drum
off...

> I use a second screwdriver. If your comfortable
> with this then turn the star wheel till the drum can't be turned easily
> by hand, then release the adjuster arm and back the star wheel off a
> couple
> of notches.
>
> Those pads and drum look worn. Hard to tell how deep the ridge is in there
> but I'd check prices for new drums and pads. Sometimes it's actually
> cheaper than having them turned.

Cost is $15 each for turning and $40 each for new drums. Hardware kit is
$15 and the pads ate about $65 for the set (Raybestos). The surface where
the 2 pad parallel mating surfaces run on the drum surface is perfectly
flat. The middle ridge is between those 2 parallel pad surfaces.

>
>> I am wondering at this point why they would need to be adjusted. Do
>> they not self adjust when I back out of the garage every day? Is
>> this something I need to do periodically? What is up with this?
>
> They self adjust (sometimes). I've found that every so often if the
> jeep is level and I don't have the brakes on, that pulling up on the
> e-brake a few times tightens things up.

The e-brake is something I very rarely use. Maybe I ought to.

>
> One of the big problems is the adjusting wheel (star wheel) getting
> full of crud. I prefer to clean the whole thing out and use some
> chassis lube on the threads.

It is actually pretty clean in there - no crud on the star wheel at all.

Thanks Doug - much appreciated.
Tomes

>
> --
> DougW
>

Hi Dave,
I do not think that it is really scored, it is just that the shiny part is
the only surface that the pads are running on. The pads that are in there
have these 2 parallel surfaces instead of one big flat surface. The other
'crud' on there is on the sides or between the mating surfaces.

The handbrake is something that I rarely use, but when I do it is normal.
Perhaps I ought to use it more...
Tomes

"Dave Milne" ...
> If those were mine, I'd replace the drums due to the scoring. And because
> it's a good idea to replace pads on new discs / drums, I'd replace the
> pads
> as well. I've never had a vehicle in which the automatic adjusters worked
> that well, but yes you are right in theory that they should adjust when
> you
> reverse.
>
> Out of interest, what is your handbrake like ?
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
>
> "Tomes" ...
>> Hi folks,
>> I have now got around to pulling off my rear drum to have a lookey at the
>> rear brakes. The situation was that I failed for braking differential
>> between the front and the rear brakes in the state inspection. The
>> assumption was that the rear brakes were worn out at 90K miles. I had
> done
>> the fronts some time ago. I was expecting to have to bring the drums
>> down
>> to the shop to have them cut while I swap out the shoe parts. To my
>> surprise, it all actually looks to me to still be OK, with a lot of pad
>> left.
>>
>> I posted a few pictures (the first time I have done that - yep I am so
>> proud...my daughter helped me there - links below) that I would like you
> to
>> please look at and either confirm that I do not need new brakes or set me
>> straight in whatever way I need it.
>>
>> When I took off the drum, before I messed with the star adjuster, it
> seemed
>> kind of loose to my uncalibrated feel. The drum was loose enough to
> rattle
>> in my hand on the studs, it just would not come of due to the ridges in
> the
>> drum. When I was adjusting the shoes to be able to get the drum off, I
>> first moved it a bit in the wrong direction and it tightened up so the
> drum
>> did not move. It seemed like there was a bit of adjusting done to get
> that
>> far. It is all dry in there - no leaks.
>>
>> So here is what I am thinking now. All I need to do is put it back
> together
>> and adjust to wheel stoppage and then back off a bit so it moves with
>> just
> a
>> little resistance. Then try running it through inspection (which is
>> free)
>> again. Cool?
>>
>> I am wondering at this point why they would need to be adjusted. Do they
>> not self adjust when I back out of the garage every day? Is this
> something
>> I need to do periodically? What is up with this?
>>
>> Thanks folks for your insight.
>> Tomes
>> (also posted to other NGs)
>>
>> The picture links:
>> Entire assembly.
>> http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/CIMG1001.jpg
>> Top of rear shoe
>> http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/CIMG1002.jpg
>> Top of front shoe
>> http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/CIMG0999.jpg
>> Drum - no gouges at all on surface that is meeting up with the pads
>> http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/CIMG1000.jpg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Hi Tomes,
Replace the shoes, they show the telltale adhesive was over heated and
bubbled out the end, while an edge of the show lifts, and see cracks. Could
only have been caused by not releasing the emergency brake.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O

http://www.billhughes.com/jeep_bookmark.htm

"Tomes" > wrote in message
...
> Hi folks,
> I have now got around to pulling off my rear drum to have a lookey at the
> rear brakes. The situation was that I failed for braking differential
> between the front and the rear brakes in the state inspection. The
> assumption was that the rear brakes were worn out at 90K miles. I had
done
> the fronts some time ago. I was expecting to have to bring the drums down
> to the shop to have them cut while I swap out the shoe parts. To my
> surprise, it all actually looks to me to still be OK, with a lot of pad
> left.
>
> I posted a few pictures (the first time I have done that - yep I am so
> proud...my daughter helped me there - links below) that I would like you
to
> please look at and either confirm that I do not need new brakes or set me
> straight in whatever way I need it.
>
> When I took off the drum, before I messed with the star adjuster, it
seemed
> kind of loose to my uncalibrated feel. The drum was loose enough to
rattle
> in my hand on the studs, it just would not come of due to the ridges in
the
> drum. When I was adjusting the shoes to be able to get the drum off, I
> first moved it a bit in the wrong direction and it tightened up so the
drum
> did not move. It seemed like there was a bit of adjusting done to get
that
> far. It is all dry in there - no leaks.
>
> So here is what I am thinking now. All I need to do is put it back
together
> and adjust to wheel stoppage and then back off a bit so it moves with just
a
> little resistance. Then try running it through inspection (which is free)
> again. Cool?
>
> I am wondering at this point why they would need to be adjusted. Do they
> not self adjust when I back out of the garage every day? Is this
something
> I need to do periodically? What is up with this?
>
> Thanks folks for your insight.
> Tomes
> (also posted to other NGs)
>
> The picture links:
> Entire assembly.
> http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/CIMG1001.jpg
> Top of rear shoe
> http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/CIMG1002.jpg
> Top of front shoe
> http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/CIMG0999.jpg
> Drum - no gouges at all on surface that is meeting up with the pads
> http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/CIMG1000.jpg
>
>
>
>



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Ah, ok. It is difficult to tell from the photos.

Dave

"Tomes" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Dave,
> I do not think that it is really scored, it is just that the shiny part is
> the only surface that the pads are running on. The pads that are in there
> have these 2 parallel surfaces instead of one big flat surface. The other
> 'crud' on there is on the sides or between the mating surfaces.
>
> The handbrake is something that I rarely use, but when I do it is normal.
> Perhaps I ought to use it more...
> Tomes
>
> "Dave Milne" ...
> > If those were mine, I'd replace the drums due to the scoring. And
because
> > it's a good idea to replace pads on new discs / drums, I'd replace the
> > pads
> > as well. I've never had a vehicle in which the automatic adjusters
worked
> > that well, but yes you are right in theory that they should adjust when
> > you
> > reverse.
> >
> > Out of interest, what is your handbrake like ?
> >
> > Dave Milne, Scotland
> >
> > "Tomes" ...
> >> Hi folks,
> >> I have now got around to pulling off my rear drum to have a lookey at
the
> >> rear brakes. The situation was that I failed for braking differential
> >> between the front and the rear brakes in the state inspection. The
> >> assumption was that the rear brakes were worn out at 90K miles. I had
> > done
> >> the fronts some time ago. I was expecting to have to bring the drums
> >> down
> >> to the shop to have them cut while I swap out the shoe parts. To my
> >> surprise, it all actually looks to me to still be OK, with a lot of pad
> >> left.
> >>
> >> I posted a few pictures (the first time I have done that - yep I am so
> >> proud...my daughter helped me there - links below) that I would like
you
> > to
> >> please look at and either confirm that I do not need new brakes or set
me
> >> straight in whatever way I need it.
> >>
> >> When I took off the drum, before I messed with the star adjuster, it
> > seemed
> >> kind of loose to my uncalibrated feel. The drum was loose enough to
> > rattle
> >> in my hand on the studs, it just would not come of due to the ridges in
> > the
> >> drum. When I was adjusting the shoes to be able to get the drum off, I
> >> first moved it a bit in the wrong direction and it tightened up so the
> > drum
> >> did not move. It seemed like there was a bit of adjusting done to get
> > that
> >> far. It is all dry in there - no leaks.
> >>
> >> So here is what I am thinking now. All I need to do is put it back
> > together
> >> and adjust to wheel stoppage and then back off a bit so it moves with
> >> just
> > a
> >> little resistance. Then try running it through inspection (which is
> >> free)
> >> again. Cool?
> >>
> >> I am wondering at this point why they would need to be adjusted. Do
they
> >> not self adjust when I back out of the garage every day? Is this
> > something
> >> I need to do periodically? What is up with this?
> >>
> >> Thanks folks for your insight.
> >> Tomes
> >> (also posted to other NGs)
> >>
> >> The picture links:
> >> Entire assembly.
> >> http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/CIMG1001.jpg
> >> Top of rear shoe
> >> http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/CIMG1002.jpg
> >> Top of front shoe
> >> http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/CIMG0999.jpg
> >> Drum - no gouges at all on surface that is meeting up with the pads
> >> http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/CIMG1000.jpg
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>

Tomes,
If there is a lip on the drum and you have to "de-adjust" the shoes just
to get the drums off, then you need to machine the drums so they're uniform
all the way across the face. Then, clean and lube all the friction points
where the shoes ride on the backing plate, clean and lube the star wheel
adjuster and threads, re-assemble, and adjust just exactly the way you
described in your first post on the matter, and recheck the adjustments
every couple of months or so. Adjusters aren't perfect, so they don't
perform correctly the more they get dirty and brake dust on them. You will
notice a marked improvement in your braking, and pedal response.
Good luck,

Spdloader


"Tomes" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Dave,
> I do not think that it is really scored, it is just that the shiny part is
> the only surface that the pads are running on. The pads that are in there
> have these 2 parallel surfaces instead of one big flat surface. The other
> 'crud' on there is on the sides or between the mating surfaces.
>
> The handbrake is something that I rarely use, but when I do it is normal.
> Perhaps I ought to use it more...
> Tomes
>
> "Dave Milne" ...
>> If those were mine, I'd replace the drums due to the scoring. And because
>> it's a good idea to replace pads on new discs / drums, I'd replace the
>> pads
>> as well. I've never had a vehicle in which the automatic adjusters worked
>> that well, but yes you are right in theory that they should adjust when
>> you
>> reverse.
>>
>> Out of interest, what is your handbrake like ?
>>
>> Dave Milne, Scotland
>>
>> "Tomes" ...
>>> Hi folks,
>>> I have now got around to pulling off my rear drum to have a lookey at
>>> the
>>> rear brakes. The situation was that I failed for braking differential
>>> between the front and the rear brakes in the state inspection. The
>>> assumption was that the rear brakes were worn out at 90K miles. I had
>> done
>>> the fronts some time ago. I was expecting to have to bring the drums
>>> down
>>> to the shop to have them cut while I swap out the shoe parts. To my
>>> surprise, it all actually looks to me to still be OK, with a lot of pad
>>> left.
>>>
>>> I posted a few pictures (the first time I have done that - yep I am so
>>> proud...my daughter helped me there - links below) that I would like you
>> to
>>> please look at and either confirm that I do not need new brakes or set
>>> me
>>> straight in whatever way I need it.
>>>
>>> When I took off the drum, before I messed with the star adjuster, it
>> seemed
>>> kind of loose to my uncalibrated feel. The drum was loose enough to
>> rattle
>>> in my hand on the studs, it just would not come of due to the ridges in
>> the
>>> drum. When I was adjusting the shoes to be able to get the drum off, I
>>> first moved it a bit in the wrong direction and it tightened up so the
>> drum
>>> did not move. It seemed like there was a bit of adjusting done to get
>> that
>>> far. It is all dry in there - no leaks.
>>>
>>> So here is what I am thinking now. All I need to do is put it back
>> together
>>> and adjust to wheel stoppage and then back off a bit so it moves with
>>> just
>> a
>>> little resistance. Then try running it through inspection (which is
>>> free)
>>> again. Cool?
>>>
>>> I am wondering at this point why they would need to be adjusted. Do
>>> they
>>> not self adjust when I back out of the garage every day? Is this
>> something
>>> I need to do periodically? What is up with this?
>>>
>>> Thanks folks for your insight.
>>> Tomes
>>> (also posted to other NGs)
>>>
>>> The picture links:
>>> Entire assembly.
>>> http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/CIMG1001.jpg
>>> Top of rear shoe
>>> http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/CIMG1002.jpg
>>> Top of front shoe
>>> http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/CIMG0999.jpg
>>> Drum - no gouges at all on surface that is meeting up with the pads
>>> http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/CIMG1000.jpg
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>