Unleaded petrol mixed with Diesel in a Chrysler 2.5CRD

Bill Putney ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying :

>> ...If this is a common rail diesesl (hence CRD?) then you may very
>> well be stuffed. The lack of lubrication from petrol can very quickly
>> kill the high pressure pump.

> If that's the case, then let me ask the obvious stupid question: If
> it's a matter of lack of lubrication, is there some oil that could be
> added right away on a one-time basis to make up for the lowered
> lubrication to save that pump (of course without causing other
> problems)? It sounds like in reality from other posts that it should
> be OK anyway, but I was just wondering about mitigating the
> possibilities for damage.

Not that I've heard of.

Besides, since they've driven 3 miles, it's entirely possible that the
damage has been done - as Andy's said, even priming the system *can* cause
the damage.

Adrian wrote:
> ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
> saying :
>
> > My dizzy wife just put 11 litres of unleaded PETROL (gasoline to our
> > Cousins in the US) in her DIESEL Chrysler 2.5CRD (2003 model)
> >
> > There was probably about a quarter tank of Diesel in it before she
> > refuelled so 11 litres of unleaded petrol went on top of that, THEN she
> > realised her error and put 40 Litres of DIESEL in on top of it !
> >
> > Result, probably about a mixture of 5 parts Diesel 1 part Petrol !!!
>
> If this is a common rail diesesl (hence CRD?) then you may very well be
> stuffed. The lack of lubrication from petrol can very quickly kill the high
> pressure pump.

Yes

The CRD bit is "Common Rail Diesel"

OOOPS !

Shoud I bung some oil in the tank ?

HELP !

"Andy Hewitt" > wrote in message
. ..
> Mike G > wrote:
>
> [Snipped Text]
>
> > > Who is right, The RAC man or the Garage attendant ?
> >
> > The RAC man.
>
> How bloody wrong can you be mate! Your advice could cost this chap
> thousands.
>
> > > Has she ruined it already?
> >
> > No.
> > My advice would be to just keep using it, and frequently top up with
diesel
> > to reduce the petrol ratio.
> > Mike.
>
> Absolutely not. We have bulletins from the manufacturers now (in my case
> Honda) that suggest even priming the fuel system can cause damage to the
> fuel system on the latest high pressure common rail diesels.
>
> If it hasn't been run, then DO NOT START IT. You can then get away with
> a simple drain off clean out an refill. If it has been started, then
> your troubles begin.
>
> You have two choices, carry on and take a chance, or replace every
> component on the fuel system.
>
> The common rail systems run at very high pressure - somewhere up to 2000
> BAR is normal (yes, that's over 20,000 psi). The pumps reply on the
> diesel fuel to lubricate it.

Diesel fuel 'will' still be lubricating it, or are you suggesting that 'any'
dilution of the diesel 'will' result in damage to the fuel pump?

One or two sources I found using Google
> suggest that the material of the bearings is damaged by petrol.

> If the pump is driven by the engine, and you opt for option 1, then
> there is a chance that the pump can sieze later on.

See my previous point.

If this happens,
> then it'll cause drive damage to the drive system of the engine, and
> possibly the head too. I'd expect this to cost up to £10k.
>
> The manufacturers are recommending that we change all the components of
> the fuel system, and flush the lines and tank (On BMWs you have to
> replace the tank too) - this includes the pump, injectors, filters and
> high pressure pipes. Costs for this start at about £3k.

Of course that is the manufacturers recommendation. I wouldn't expect it to
be otherwise.

> If you take it to a dealer and get them to flush the tank it might only
> cost a couple of hundred pounds.
>
> It depends on how much you want to gamble really.

I would agree that ideally the tank should be emptied, but IMO, under the
circunstances, the risks in not doing so are small for the OP.
He's been offered conflicting advice. It's now up to the OP to decide.
Mike.

Knight Of The Road > wrote:

> "Andy Hewitt" > wrote
>
>
>
> . Costs for this start at about £3k.
> >
> > If you take it to a dealer and get them to flush the tank it might only
> > cost a couple of hundred pounds.
>
>
>
>
>
> **** me, my car only cost a couple of hundred pounds!

Then you'll know what you'll be doing with it I guess :-)

--
Andy Hewitt ** FAF#1, (Ex-OSOS#5) - FJ1200 ABS
Windows free zone (Mac G5 Dual Processor)
<http://andyhewitt.webhop.net/>
(updated Nov. 2005)

Adrian > wrote:

[Snipped Text]

> > If that's the case, then let me ask the obvious stupid question: If
> > it's a matter of lack of lubrication, is there some oil that could be
> > added right away on a one-time basis to make up for the lowered
> > lubrication to save that pump (of course without causing other
> > problems)? It sounds like in reality from other posts that it should
> > be OK anyway, but I was just wondering about mitigating the
> > possibilities for damage.
>
> Not that I've heard of.
>
> Besides, since they've driven 3 miles, it's entirely possible that the
> damage has been done - as Andy's said, even priming the system *can* cause
> the damage.

Yes, I was talking to the recovery chap that bought the last one in, and
BMWs actually prime the fuel system as the doors are unlocked. Bummer!

--
Andy Hewitt ** FAF#1, (Ex-OSOS#5) - FJ1200 ABS
Windows free zone (Mac G5 Dual Processor)
<http://andyhewitt.webhop.net/>
(updated Nov. 2005)

Mike G > wrote:

[Snipped Text]

> > The common rail systems run at very high pressure - somewhere up to 2000
> > BAR is normal (yes, that's over 20,000 psi). The pumps reply on the
> > diesel fuel to lubricate it.
>
> Diesel fuel 'will' still be lubricating it, or are you suggesting that 'any'
> dilution of the diesel 'will' result in damage to the fuel pump?

No, I'm not suggesting anything of the sort, the manufacturers
specifically state it.

> One or two sources I found using Google
> > suggest that the material of the bearings is damaged by petrol.
>
> > If the pump is driven by the engine, and you opt for option 1, then
> > there is a chance that the pump can sieze later on.
>
> See my previous point.

ditto.

> If this happens,
> > then it'll cause drive damage to the drive system of the engine, and
> > possibly the head too. I'd expect this to cost up to £10k.
> >
> > The manufacturers are recommending that we change all the components of
> > the fuel system, and flush the lines and tank (On BMWs you have to
> > replace the tank too) - this includes the pump, injectors, filters and
> > high pressure pipes. Costs for this start at about £3k.
>
> Of course that is the manufacturers recommendation. I wouldn't expect it to
> be otherwise.

Aye, but in this case the gamble is for a clean and flush of the fuel
system, or the risk of a new engine *and* replacement of the entire fuel
system.

Surely it's wiser to take the safe option here - especially if the
engine hasn't been run yet. The clean and flush will offer a fully safe
solution.

> > If you take it to a dealer and get them to flush the tank it might only
> > cost a couple of hundred pounds.
> >
> > It depends on how much you want to gamble really.
>
> I would agree that ideally the tank should be emptied, but IMO, under the
> circunstances, the risks in not doing so are small for the OP.

How do you know that though, AFAIK we haven't yet had a chance to find
out what the consequences are. We do know they *can* be catastrophically
expensive, and possibly even dangerous.

It's quite possible that the manufacturers have actually tested the cars
under these conditions and perhaps might know what they are talking
about. Just go an see what kind of R&D Honda have, and you might have
some idea how much they test things.

> He's been offered conflicting advice. It's now up to the OP to decide.
> Mike.

Yes, the wrong advice and the right advice.



--
Andy Hewitt ** FAF#1, (Ex-OSOS#5) - FJ1200 ABS
Windows free zone (Mac G5 Dual Processor)
<http://andyhewitt.webhop.net/>
(updated Nov. 2005)

"Mike G" > wrote in message
...
> My advice would be to just keep using it, and frequently top up with
> diesel
> to reduce the petrol ratio.

Home made winter mix ratio? This is what it sounds like.

Anybody know the difference between Petrol and kerosene?

PDH

Why not just siphon it out, and start fresh?

wrote:

>
>
> Hi
>
> My dizzy wife just put 11 litres of unleaded PETROL (gasoline to our
> Cousins in the US) in her DIESEL Chrysler 2.5CRD (2003 model)
>
> There was probably about a quarter tank of Diesel in it before she
> refuelled so 11 litres of unleaded petrol went on top of that, THEN she
> realised her error and put 40 Litres of DIESEL in on top of it !
>
> Result, probably about a mixture of 5 parts Diesel 1 part Petrol !!!
>
> One Guy in the Garage said she must NOT move the car as it would d> Thanks
in advance
amage
> the engine and needed to be drained out completely etc etc etc
>
> Then an RAC man on a bike ( who was refuelling himself ) said that most
> Diesels will run just fine with a little bit of Unleaded mixed in, he
> went on to say that my missus could run it on sunflower oil or chip pan
> fat too ?
>
> The garages are shut for the weekend of course and she already drove it
> home about 3 miles without noticing a difference
>
> Who is right, The RAC man or the Garage attendant ?
>
> Has she ruined it already?
>

Are you an AA member? If so, their patrols can contact tech support who will
be able to advise the maximum dilution ratio for any miss-fuelled vehicle.

HTH

Chris

--
Remove prejudice to reply.

"Andy Hewitt" > wrote in message
. ..
> Mike G > wrote:
>
> [Snipped Text]
>
>> > Who is right, The RAC man or the Garage attendant ?
>>
>> The RAC man.
>
> How bloody wrong can you be mate! Your advice could cost this chap
> thousands.
>
>> > Has she ruined it already?
>>
>> No.
>> My advice would be to just keep using it, and frequently top up with
>> diesel
>> to reduce the petrol ratio.
>> Mike.
>
> Absolutely not. We have bulletins from the manufacturers now (in my case
> Honda) that suggest even priming the fuel system can cause damage to the
> fuel system on the latest high pressure common rail diesels.
>

Priming the system could cause severe damage only because the pump could be
turning dry. Petrol is wet but to help it lubricate better then add a pint
or so of engine oil to the tank. There should be absolutely no problem then
and at the concentration suggested by the OP, no problem anyhow.

Huw