Grand Cherokee HAUNTED DOOR SWITCH?!?!?!?!?

We have a 2003 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo, 4WD Quad, V8, that has been
a workhorse for our camping field trips. A few months ago I had a
situation where I had a problem with the driver's side door electric
window drive broke. When I took it to the shop, the control wouldn't
run UNLESS I had the driver's door CLOSED. I also started noticing
that the lock switch on the driver's side door wouldn't work UNLESS
the driver's door was CLOSED. And once after that the window controls
stopped working on the driver's side door but started again later in
the day. Then a month ago I went out to check my mail at night and saw
my interior lights were still on. After opening and closing doors and
using the remote lock, they finally went off.

We were camping this past weekend and when returning to the site after
dark, my interior lights were ON again. I finally found if I opened
the passenger door, click the key switch back to ALT and then OFF,
then got out and used the remote lock the lights went OFF. But right
after I found that when I opened the driver's side door, the interior
lights do NOT come on anymore and they still don't today.

With all this FuNkY stuff I don't know if this is door console switch
unit, door switch, wiring or where to look. Any and all help or
suggestions would be greatly appreciated as I don't care to leave for
work one day and find my batteries dead because the lights wouldn't go
off :O/

Thanks!!!

"infiniteMPG" > wrote in message
...
> We have a 2003 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo, 4WD Quad, V8, that has been
> a workhorse for our camping field trips. A few months ago I had a
> situation where I had a problem with the driver's side door electric
> window drive broke. When I took it to the shop, the control wouldn't
> run UNLESS I had the driver's door CLOSED. I also started noticing
> that the lock switch on the driver's side door wouldn't work UNLESS
> the driver's door was CLOSED. And once after that the window controls
> stopped working on the driver's side door but started again later in
> the day. Then a month ago I went out to check my mail at night and saw
> my interior lights were still on. After opening and closing doors and
> using the remote lock, they finally went off.
>
> We were camping this past weekend and when returning to the site after
> dark, my interior lights were ON again. I finally found if I opened
> the passenger door, click the key switch back to ALT and then OFF,
> then got out and used the remote lock the lights went OFF. But right
> after I found that when I opened the driver's side door, the interior
> lights do NOT come on anymore and they still don't today.
>
> With all this FuNkY stuff I don't know if this is door console switch
> unit, door switch, wiring or where to look. Any and all help or
> suggestions would be greatly appreciated as I don't care to leave for
> work one day and find my batteries dead because the lights wouldn't go
> off :O/
>
> Thanks!!!


I'm thinking of a cold solder joint on the controller.

As for the driver door not locking unless the door is closed, this might
actually be a desireable feature that attempts to prevent the key from
laughing at you on the front seat. I have a BMW that requires the key to
lock the doors -- the two front doors -- so that one has to be on the
outside and have the keys in hand. Saves calling the tow truck. My Mazda can
lock the doors without the key, but not if the key is still in the ignition.
The keys can giggle hysterically on the seat, but not from the ignition
switch. Calling the tow truck for the Mazda is conditional.

But, you have described other problems that can crop up if solder joints are
defective.

I once had a Honda Accord, and the windows started to act up. Somebody
hinted at the controller. I went on the search for my window control module
and found it inside of the driver side door. When I opened it, several
joints on the connector were cold-soldered, and a couple on a relay were the
same. I hit each connection with my soldering iron, and the problem was
solved.

I don't remember how much a control module costs, but I'm thinking $150-ish.

infiniteMPG wrote:

> We have a 2003 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo, 4WD Quad, V8, that has been
> a workhorse for our camping field trips. A few months ago I had a
> situation where I had a problem with the driver's side door electric
> window drive broke. When I took it to the shop, the control wouldn't
> run UNLESS I had the driver's door CLOSED. I also started noticing
> that the lock switch on the driver's side door wouldn't work UNLESS
> the driver's door was CLOSED. And once after that the window controls
> stopped working on the driver's side door but started again later in
> the day. Then a month ago I went out to check my mail at night and saw
> my interior lights were still on. After opening and closing doors and
> using the remote lock, they finally went off.
>
> We were camping this past weekend and when returning to the site after
> dark, my interior lights were ON again. I finally found if I opened
> the passenger door, click the key switch back to ALT and then OFF,
> then got out and used the remote lock the lights went OFF. But right
> after I found that when I opened the driver's side door, the interior
> lights do NOT come on anymore and they still don't today.
>
> With all this FuNkY stuff I don't know if this is door console switch
> unit, door switch, wiring or where to look. Any and all help or
> suggestions would be greatly appreciated as I don't care to leave for
> work one day and find my batteries dead because the lights wouldn't go
> off :O/

The first place I look when the problem depends on the door being opened or
closed is in the wiring harness at the front of the door - it flexes every
time you open the door and broken wires are common between the pillar and
the door.

--
Will Honea

> The first place I look when the problem depends on the door being opened or
> closed is in the wiring harness at the front of the door - it flexes every
> time you open the door and broken wires are common between the pillar and
> the door.

The flexing wires seems viable but the consitency seems to work
against that theory. If I crack the door open, as soon as it's open
even a little, the lock and the windows stop working. Pull it a tad
more shut and they work again. If it was a broken wire or bad solder
connection I'd expect it to maybe work a little less consistently, but
I can test this by flexing the cable and seeing if it makes a
difference.

I remember the old door open switches that ran the inside lights was a
simple ON/OFF switch. Not sure if the door open switch in the Jeep
runs in to the controller and it does some logic stuff to inhibit
other operations.

Does ANYONE have a 2003 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo that can test the
window and lock controls on the driver's side door and see if they
work when the door is open? Also, with the interior lights staying on
for a while then shutting off, or screwing up and not shutting off,
tells me there is some logic at play. And if I recall there's not any
"button" switch in the door area that gets pushed in when the door
closes. There's something going on like inside the framing of the
car. Any help with how the door switch works and where it might be
physically located????

infiniteMPG wrote:
>> The first place I look when the problem depends on the door being
>> opened or closed is in the wiring harness at the front of the door -
>> it flexes every time you open the door and broken wires are common
>> between the pillar and the door.
>
> The flexing wires seems viable but the consitency seems to work
> against that theory. If I crack the door open, as soon as it's open
> even a little, the lock and the windows stop working. Pull it a tad
> more shut and they work again. If it was a broken wire or bad solder
> connection I'd expect it to maybe work a little less consistently, but
> I can test this by flexing the cable and seeing if it makes a
> difference.

This can be normal. The weird thing is that door module can be
programmed to do a bunch of things. There should be a basic list
that came with your vehicle. If memory serves you use the overhead
console menu (or VIC menu) to program it. Might be something here
about it. http://www.wjjeeps.com/ More detailed programming requires
a DRBIII scantool.

It's also possible that when they fixed the window motor they
left a connector off, didn't get it on properly, or broke one
of the connectors little plastic ears.

> I remember the old door open switches that ran the inside lights was a
> simple ON/OFF switch. Not sure if the door open switch in the Jeep
> runs in to the controller and it does some logic stuff to inhibit
> other operations.

It uses a door module. A few hundred bucks of electronics to replace
a few bucks of wire.

> Does ANYONE have a 2003 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo that can test the
> window and lock controls on the driver's side door and see if they
> work when the door is open? Also, with the interior lights staying on
> for a while then shutting off, or screwing up and not shutting off,
> tells me there is some logic at play. And if I recall there's not any
> "button" switch in the door area that gets pushed in when the door
> closes. There's something going on like inside the framing of the
> car. Any help with how the door switch works and where it might be
> physically located????


Lights not shutting off indicate the Jeep is getting a door-open signal.
When you run down the road does the VIC (Vehicle Information Center)
tell you your door is open? Actually it should indicate door-open with
the vehicle running in park.

If it doesn't then it's possibly a problem is with contamination
or a disconnected cylinder switch. (snapped to the back of the
lock cylinder). When it gets a ground it disables your alarm and
turns on the lights. If it's full of salt/crud or bouncing against
the door frame then it could cause this.


That's the problem with electronics, they are uber sensitive to
ground leaks. A bit of contamination can make the body module
"think" a switch is grounded.


First thing. Close and lock/arm the jeep. Then use the driver
door key to unlock/disarm the alarm. If the alarm goes off then
it's likely that connector that has fallen off.

...resist the urge to spray cleaner into the lock..
Some types of cleaner are real bad on paint!


You are dealing with a "module" system. i.e. there are no direct wires
like in older vehicles. The module contains the switches.
It takes the DRBIII scantool to diagnose the system. (apart from the
few hard wire connections)

Hard wire inputs are
Door Ajar
Driver door key switch
Battery (12V)
Ground
Memory switch input
Mirror horizontal signal
Mirror vertical signal
PCI bus

Of those the only ones you can test with a ohmmeter are
door ajar
driver door key switch
batter
ground

the others are "muxed" or logic blips.

I think you have a bad door open switch
or a busted wire.

Let's not go there just yet...



Now the "fun" part. That door ajar switch isn't in the door frame.
It's in the door and it's part of the door lock motor which is a
big whopping glob of plastic right next to the latch. When
you look at the door module there is an 18 gauge tan wire with
a red stripe running to that block. This wire gets grounded
when the door is closed.

That wire runs to the switch, turns into a 18 gauge black
wire that splices with the 20 gauge black wire running from
the cylinder lock switch (stuck to the back of the lock cylinder)
and another 12 Gauge black wire running from the door module.

That black wire runs out through the harness. If it breaks
weird things will happen.

...blink.. I think I got that right. Lots of words, eh?


Basically there is a black wire that has runs to
the door flex cable, the door module, the cylinder lock
switch, and the door ajar switch.


P.S.

If you have a key in the ignition and the driver door open, the door
locks will not work. This is to keep you from locking your keys in
the jeep. It's called "Door Lock Inhibit"




--
DougW

Hey Doug, great info.

UPDATE AND MORE INFO :

- When the alarm is armed (which I know from the flashing red light on
the dash) and I use the key in the driver's side door, as soon as I
turn the key the inside lights come on, the door unlocks and the alarm
disarms and doesn't go off.

- If I get out on the driver's side, close the door and using the
remote I lock the car, the car locks BUT the alarm doesn't come on and
the interior lights stay ON. From playing around (in a panic in a
store parking lot) I found I can run around the passenger side, unlock
the car with the remote, stick the key in the ignition, click it to
ALT for a second, then turn it off, remove the key close the passenger
side door and then when I lock it with the remote the lights go off
immediately and the alarm arms (red light blinking).

- If the car is running, I turn off the ignition, remove the key, open
the driver's side door, get out and use the key to lock the door, the
locks lock BUT the alarm doesn't arm and the interior light does NOT
go off.

- If I am in the car, key in ignition and car running, I can unlatch
the driver's side door and everything works until the door is about an
inch open at the latch end. Then nothing on the door console works.
As soon as I move the door back partially shut, everything starts
working again.

So if the car is running and the driver's side door closed, everything
works. If I open the driver's side door and things stop working,
sounds like that's functioning the way it's supposed to, too. But
turning the ingition off, removing the key, getting out on the
driver's side, closing the door and locking with either the remote or
the key lock does NOT set the alarm or turn the interior lights off.

Does that help narrow it down???? :O/

And just out of curiosity, if the door switch on the driver's side
door wasn't making a good connection then wouldn't that prevent me
from setting the alarm even if I did it after setting the ignition to
ALT and then OFF and then closing the passenger side door last??? I
would think the system would still think the driver's side door was
not shut.

infiniteMPG wrote:
> And just out of curiosity, if the door switch on the driver's side
> door wasn't making a good connection then wouldn't that prevent me
> from setting the alarm even if I did it after setting the ignition to
> ALT and then OFF and then closing the passenger side door last??? I
> would think the system would still think the driver's side door was
> not shut.

The problem is you might have an "iffy" connection. The alarm system
ignores some sensors and can ignore "bad" sensors. the scantool will
be able to pull information. There used to be an alarm test mode you
could enter by using the ignition key, but I doubt it will work on
your Jeep.


Basically you turn the key from off to the ACCessory position three
times then leave it in ACC. i.e. Off-ACC-Off-ACC-Off-ACC

At that point any opening/closing of doors will cause the horn to beep.

Turning the key back to OFF stops the test.


--
DougW

infiniteMPG wrote:
> Hey Doug, great info.
>
> UPDATE AND MORE INFO :
>
> - When the alarm is armed (which I know from the flashing red light on
> the dash) and I use the key in the driver's side door, as soon as I
> turn the key the inside lights come on, the door unlocks and the alarm
> disarms and doesn't go off.

Then the switch is hooked up properly then.

> - If I get out on the driver's side, close the door and using the
> remote I lock the car, the car locks BUT the alarm doesn't come on and
> the interior lights stay ON. From playing around (in a panic in a
> store parking lot) I found I can run around the passenger side, unlock
> the car with the remote, stick the key in the ignition, click it to
> ALT for a second, then turn it off, remove the key close the passenger
> side door and then when I lock it with the remote the lights go off
> immediately and the alarm arms (red light blinking).

The lights will stay on for a while. When they turn off the alarm
should then arm. This is a programmed item in the alarm controller.
I don't know if it's tied to the driver door or all doors. Each door
has a module and each module can be programmed differently.

> - If the car is running, I turn off the ignition, remove the key, open
> the driver's side door, get out and use the key to lock the door, the
> locks lock BUT the alarm doesn't arm and the interior light does NOT
> go off.

The alarm shouldn't arm, the driver door switch (and tailgate switch)
only disarms. As for the lights, they should go off as soon as the
timer runs out. Not sure if that can be programmed via the console or not.
When they did the window motor/regulator they might have flashed or
reprogrammed the body controller. I'd go back and talk to the folks
that did the work.

> - If I am in the car, key in ignition and car running, I can unlatch
> the driver's side door and everything works until the door is about an
> inch open at the latch end. Then nothing on the door console works.
> As soon as I move the door back partially shut, everything starts
> working again.

Correct. The body controller won't let you lock your keys in the car
or close the window because your hand might be accidently in the frame.
Although I thought it would let you open the window. Try doing the
on-touch down then immediatly open the door. The window should continue down.

> So if the car is running and the driver's side door closed, everything
> works. If I open the driver's side door and things stop working,
> sounds like that's functioning the way it's supposed to, too. But
> turning the ingition off, removing the key, getting out on the
> driver's side, closing the door and locking with either the remote or
> the key lock does NOT set the alarm or turn the interior lights off.

I'm starting to think your light timeout is set way too long, but just
for grins, check to make sure your dashboard dimmer switch isn't all
the way over and keeping the lights on.

The interior rear light switch will also keep the lights on. Mine is a
push click thing. Hit it once with my head and the lights wouldn't go
off. Eventually figured out what I did.

--
DougW

Hey Doug,

Thanks for all the help. First the Off-ACC-Off-ACC-Off-ACC doesn't
put the car in any test mode BUT if I have the ignition in ACC, as
soon as I unlatch the driver's side door, even without opening the
door at all, it starts chiming telling me my keys are still in the
ignition. Next, if I start a window up or down from the driver's door
console and then keep pressing it while I unlatch and open the door,
the window continues to move until it bottoms out. If I let off the
switch and try it while the door is open the switch won't work again
until I close the door.

I checked the dimmer switch and it was in the middle of it's
brightness so it wasn't fully bright. The rear hatch ceiling light
switch was also not forced on. When I get out of the car and close
the driver's door, walk to the passenger side and reach across, click
the key to ACC and then off, then close the door and click the remote
lock, the lights immediately go off and the flashing red light shows
the alarm is armed. I have had times when a half an hour after I'm
home I go back outside and the inside lights are still on. But just
to test if it's a looooong timeout, I turned the interior lights all
the way off, shut the driver's door and locked it with the remote. It
locks the car but doesn't set the alarm. I'll check during the
afternoon and see if the alarm ever activates.

Seems the door switch is working fine from all this, just seems that
when I exit the driver's side door, close the door and lock with key
or remote, the car never arms the alarm nor does it turn the interior
lights off.

Getting any closer? :O)
Thanks!