New Camaro Is Now Officially A Go

Harry in Montreal wrote:
>
> Just check the stock price of GM and Toyota on hte NYSE.
> that says it all. in my mind, it is ALL about quality.
>

Quality? Are we thinking about the same Toyota?
In 2005, industry wide recalls slight dropped, but
Toyota's recalls more than *doubled*. Quality?!

Thanks,
Scott

>Scott Moseman wrote:
> Quality? Are we thinking about the same Toyota?
> In 2005, industry wide recalls slight dropped, but
> Toyota's recalls more than *doubled*. Quality?!
>
> Thanks,
> Scott

Scott, you are correct - toyota's recalls have increased. what is the
number one selling car in america? did you see that JD power has named
lexus #1 for quality? Consumer reports loves all toyotas except the
useless solara? Have you owned or driven both? i sold my 1998 4 runner
to a guy on the phone sight-unseen with 150000 miles on it for $7k. he
exported it to africa. over the 7 years i had it, i just did hte oil,
lubes and the brake pads and shoes once. only once. that is quality. it
never once left me stranded - it always ran nicely. it was a sick
truck. if i had bought a GM blazer, do you think i would have been as
satisfied? when the explorer had their issues with their tires, toyota
sent me a letter to voluntarily replace all the springs on the truck
for free to make the ride smoother and improve emergency handling. i
never received something like that with any of my ford or GM products.
keep in mind that Ford cruise control modules have been burning down
homes for years, and only now they are recalling them. its sad. when
you buy a toyota, you'll understand. dont be influenced by some dumb
media outlets saying that toyota's quality is slipping, when their
design and initial quality is incomparable to the big 3. going back to
the original post, i would buy another stang or camaro, or even the
challenger, but only when they get their act together and build a
quality product. it seems that with the price of cars today, if i dump
30k on a car, i would like to have a reliable ride for 7 years. GM and
Ford aim for about three. that is pretty weak. they have lost me as a
customer, and i am not alone.

Harry in montreal
Had: 93Lx, 96GT, 01GT, 98 Z28 mm6. Now: a house and a subway.

I was a mechanic for a toy dealership for a few years. They are no better
than anyone else's. They had tons of silent tsbs, not released to the
public. Great pr in keeping things quite. I've seen many warped heads on
toyo's, and guess what, it was the same time ford had a recall on the head
gaskets. Toyo used the same manufacturer for their gaskets, but never made
it public that they had problems with theirs. If the customer bitched
enough, they would replace the gasket. So don't spout your **** about toyo's
supposed quality, cause it just isn't so. And if you want to debate this, I
will site all their issues compared to domestics. So what you had a vehicle
that ran 150 k's on the clock........I've had many that did that also with
minimal maintenance.
"Harry in Montreal" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> >Scott Moseman wrote:
> > Quality? Are we thinking about the same Toyota?
> > In 2005, industry wide recalls slight dropped, but
> > Toyota's recalls more than *doubled*. Quality?!
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Scott
>
> Scott, you are correct - toyota's recalls have increased. what is the
> number one selling car in america? did you see that JD power has named
> lexus #1 for quality? Consumer reports loves all toyotas except the
> useless solara? Have you owned or driven both? i sold my 1998 4 runner
> to a guy on the phone sight-unseen with 150000 miles on it for $7k. he
> exported it to africa. over the 7 years i had it, i just did hte oil,
> lubes and the brake pads and shoes once. only once. that is quality. it
> never once left me stranded - it always ran nicely. it was a sick
> truck. if i had bought a GM blazer, do you think i would have been as
> satisfied? when the explorer had their issues with their tires, toyota
> sent me a letter to voluntarily replace all the springs on the truck
> for free to make the ride smoother and improve emergency handling. i
> never received something like that with any of my ford or GM products.
> keep in mind that Ford cruise control modules have been burning down
> homes for years, and only now they are recalling them. its sad. when
> you buy a toyota, you'll understand. dont be influenced by some dumb
> media outlets saying that toyota's quality is slipping, when their
> design and initial quality is incomparable to the big 3. going back to
> the original post, i would buy another stang or camaro, or even the
> challenger, but only when they get their act together and build a
> quality product. it seems that with the price of cars today, if i dump
> 30k on a car, i would like to have a reliable ride for 7 years. GM and
> Ford aim for about three. that is pretty weak. they have lost me as a
> customer, and i am not alone.
>
> Harry in montreal
> Had: 93Lx, 96GT, 01GT, 98 Z28 mm6. Now: a house and a subway.
>

razz wrote:
> I was a mechanic for a toy dealership for a few years. They are no better
> than anyone else's. They had tons of silent tsbs, not released to the
> public. Great pr in keeping things quite. I've seen many warped heads on
> toyo's, and guess what, it was the same time ford had a recall on the head
> gaskets. Toyo used the same manufacturer for their gaskets, but never made
> it public that they had problems with theirs. If the customer bitched
> enough, they would replace the gasket. So don't spout your **** about toyo's
> supposed quality, cause it just isn't so. And if you want to debate this, I
> will site all their issues compared to domestics. So what you had a vehicle
> that ran 150 k's on the clock........I've had many that did that also with
> minimal maintenance.

so you think that what i am "spouting" is false? you think then that
Fords are built as well as lexuses? wow, that is very very funny.
everyone knows that toyota is hammering domestics on quality. the only
thing that i am spouting is the truth. hey man, i would like to 'buy
american' to better support the domestic economy. they used to build
F-bodies in my home town. but, i wont become a charity case for a
company building lousy products. you should read CReports and see what
they are spouting about US brands. some are making a reliable models,
but most are poor. Just compare a 2004 Cavalier to a 2004 echo. do you
really think that they are of equal quality? Harry in montreal

First off. Cr report has no merit to mechanics. They claimed the 5.0 engine
used in two different vehicles had flaws in one but not the other, yet the
identical engine. They also rated the Nova badly and yet rated the corolla
far better...............same ****ing car. Yup, they got you wrapped around
their finger. So Cr is full of **** and has no merit. Toyotas quality is NO
BETTER. I've seen it first hand. They sure suckered you in. However, the
domestics do need some better designs, they are lacking in looks for the
most part, and those japs can't create their own looks, have to get theirs
ideas from the Euro's. Ever noticed the japs look like Benz's, beamers,
Hyundai copied the jags, and their lower end models are all bland looking.
I've owned a Honda Accord, cam worn at 35k's, wow, high quality there. Owned
a toyo camry, blown and warped head gasket at 83k's, ****ing high quality
there. Those were the only two jap scrap I've owned and ever will own, both
pieces of ****. Now I own a Sonata, some issues, never buy another again. My
Mustang is still running strong, although I tore the whole engine down at
35k, and rebuilt the whole thing, and now runs a low 11 quarter mile.
"Harry in Montreal" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> razz wrote:
> > I was a mechanic for a toy dealership for a few years. They are no
better
> > than anyone else's. They had tons of silent tsbs, not released to the
> > public. Great pr in keeping things quite. I've seen many warped heads on
> > toyo's, and guess what, it was the same time ford had a recall on the
head
> > gaskets. Toyo used the same manufacturer for their gaskets, but never
made
> > it public that they had problems with theirs. If the customer bitched
> > enough, they would replace the gasket. So don't spout your **** about
toyo's
> > supposed quality, cause it just isn't so. And if you want to debate
this, I
> > will site all their issues compared to domestics. So what you had a
vehicle
> > that ran 150 k's on the clock........I've had many that did that also
with
> > minimal maintenance.
>
> so you think that what i am "spouting" is false? you think then that
> Fords are built as well as lexuses? wow, that is very very funny.
> everyone knows that toyota is hammering domestics on quality. the only
> thing that i am spouting is the truth. hey man, i would like to 'buy
> american' to better support the domestic economy. they used to build
> F-bodies in my home town. but, i wont become a charity case for a
> company building lousy products. you should read CReports and see what
> they are spouting about US brands. some are making a reliable models,
> but most are poor. Just compare a 2004 Cavalier to a 2004 echo. do you
> really think that they are of equal quality? Harry in montreal
>

On Mon, 7 Aug 2006 19:59:29 -0500, "Jeff H" >
puked:

>
> wrote in message
roups.com...
>> As everyone expected the new Camaro has been approved for production.
>> The car will feature two V8s and a V6. Looks like IRS will also be
>> part of the equation. 100,000 units per year is the sales target.
>> Look for it in early 2008.
>>
>> Patrick
>>
>
>hopefully it will not have a torque limiter on it like the 2005-2006 does.
>Shameful.
>

The 2005-6 Camaros are limited in more ways than torque...
--
lab~rat >:-)
Do you want polite or do you want sincere?

On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 12:17:15 GMT, Scott Moseman >
puked:

>Air filtration? Auto dimming mirror? OnStar? Delete!

Those weren't options on the 4th gens.
--
lab~rat >:-)
Do you want polite or do you want sincere?

On 9 Aug 2006 08:04:22 -0700, "Harry in Montreal"
> puked:

> i like look and nostalgia of the "old" 69
>design (with is a beautiful car), but those old cars were also really
>poorly built. bad quality is something that GM should be actively
>trying to help those buyers to forget.

What cars were built well in that time frame? My 68 Stang was a piece
of ****. Nothing could compare to today's standards...
--
lab~rat >:-)
Do you want polite or do you want sincere?

razz wrote:
> First off. Cr report has no merit to mechanics. They claimed the 5.0 engine
> used in two different vehicles had flaws in one but not the other, yet the
> identical engine. They also rated the Nova badly and yet rated the corolla
> far better...............same ****ing car. Yup, they got you wrapped around
> their finger. So Cr is full of **** and has no merit. Toyotas quality is NO
> BETTER. I've seen it first hand. They sure suckered you in.

NO merit? well, how else are you going to compare the reliability of
various brands? wouldnt it be reasonable to start with an independent
Non-profit entity that surveys people who own the cars? granted taht CR
is not perfect, but it is better than RT and yes, your favorite 5.0
mag. you are correct, they do have me. i would say that the same way
that you dismissed the hi-reliability of my 4skinner, i would say that
your honda engine was bad luck or, it was poorly or improperly
maintained.

about comparing power trains of various vehicles, you have an
interesting point. but, 5.0 motors could be built in different
locations, and used in applications that weigh different amounts, mated
with different trannys, diff't cooling systems, fuel management systems
and diff ratios. all could create a reliability variance between
models. also, i assume more people towed boats with their 87 grand
marquis than their LX coupe mated to a T5.

you seem to love your korean built hyundai and hate your hondas, i
doubt i would ever succeed in changing your opinion. keep this in mind,
CR rate hyundais higher than fords for quality too... why did you buy
the sonata when you could have bought a nice little Aveo ? because the
sonata is a good car and the aveo nowhere close. you're a mechanic, you
know.

was the Nova built in the same plant as the corolla? i am unsure, but i
will check, IIRC it was a joint NUMMI project based in cali. Anyway, i
have CRs back to 1981, so i will check out what you said. I recall that
they rated them equally... just like the new Matrix and Vibe. those 2
are rated the same.

Harry in Mtl

In article .com>, Harry in Montreal wrote:

> NO merit? well, how else are you going to compare the reliability of
> various brands? wouldnt it be reasonable to start with an independent
> Non-profit entity that surveys people who own the cars? granted taht CR
> is not perfect,

CR's self selecting surveys and testing methods leave a lot to be
desired. As far as valid science and engineering is concerned much of
what they do results in garbage for data. The way they tested the Samurai
is key to their slip shod and sloppy methods that can be influenced by
their own biases.

Meanwhile, non-profit doesn't mean without bias. No matter what the CR
commericals say. You don't have to profit from a bias to have one. CR's
biases are pretty obvious after a little reading.

> but it is better than RT and yes, your favorite 5.0
> mag. you are correct, they do have me.

R&T and other car magazines aren't and don't claim to be what CR claims
to be.