Conventional oil hard to find?

On 27-03-2021 01:22 Jim Joyce > wrote:

> Was that the link that you intended?

Yes. Of course it was.

I think I'm the only one who isn't pulling all his ideas out of his ass.
All my statements were backed up with relevent articles and shop manuals.

That link you read said exactly what I said that link said.
Actually I gave you two links which both said what I said they said.

https://knowhow.napaonline.com/how-o...ur-oil-filter/
https://knowhow.napaonline.com/how-m...l-filter-last/

Please read both links again and let me know what you found when you do.
What you should find out is that both said exactly what I said they said.

I suggest you search for what it says about manufacturers recommendations.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 3/26/2021 3:47 PM, Jim Joyce wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 18:49:56 +0530, mike
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> On 26-03-2021 02:25 AMuzi > wrote:
>>>
>>>> It's vestigial from the 1950s when oil and labor were cheap
>>>> and filters were expensive. No good reason now, certainly
>>>> not any technical reason. I changed to oil with new filter
>>>> every 3K miles in the 1970s.
>>>
>>> I already explained in great detail that it's not at all about
>>> money.
>>> It's about design and function.
>>>
>>> Most people want a simple answer to everything which money is to
>>> them.
>>> But not everything is a simple dollars to dollars decision like
>>> you claimed.
>>>
>>> If all you care about is money then knowing that both the oil
>>> filter and the
>>> oil are cheap you're welcome to throw away both at the same
>>> interval which
>>> is why I said it's up to you.
>>>
>>> But stop saying it's about money when that's only how YOU think.
>>> The manufacturers think differently than you think.
>>>
>>> For them it's about engineering.
>>>
>>> Many manufacturers recommend oil filter intervals different than
>>> oil.
>>> https://knowhow.napaonline.com/how-m...l-filter-last/
>>>
>>>
>>> If you disagree with the manufacturer then you should answer
>>> this question:
>>> Does the oil filter always fail at the exact same rate as does
>>> the oil?
>>
>> Remember the old oil filter trick where you just use a roll of
>> toilet
>> paper? I thought I'd never see that again but it turned up on an
>> episode of
>> Garage Squad.
>>
>
> Considering the TP shortage we had I'd not be surprised if people
> were unraveling filters to use in its place.

Some americans have claimed to wipe their ass with their cat.

The dutch whine a lot, but have never had a problem wiping their butts.

On 3/26/2021 6:42 PM, mike wrote:
> On 27-03-2021 01:22 Jim Joyce > wrote:
>
>> Was that the link that you intended?
>
> Yes. Of course it was.
> I think I'm the only one who isn't pulling all his ideas out of his ass.
> All my statements were backed up with relevent articles and shop manuals.
>
> That link you read said exactly what I said that link said.
> Actually I gave you two links which both said what I said they said.
>
> https://knowhow.napaonline.com/how-o...ur-oil-filter/
> https://knowhow.napaonline.com/how-m...l-filter-last/
>
> Please read both links again and let me know what you found when you do.
> What you should find out is that both said exactly what I said they said.
>
> I suggest you search for what it says about manufacturers recommendations.
>

The links are a bit contradictory.

First link says:
If you’re wondering how often you should change your oil filter, keep
things simple by changing your oil filter every time you change your
engine oil. Following this schedule might cost you more money, but it
will save your engine from possibly getting clogged with grime, sludge
or large metallic pieces.

Second link says:
Many manufacturers say to change the oil filter every other oil change.
So, if your owner’s manual calls for oil changes every 7,500 miles, that
would be an oil filter change every 15,000 miles.

But a lot of owners and mechanics — many of them the same people who
would never go past 3,000 miles per oil change — also would never dream
of doing an oil change without also changing the filter. Their
reasoning: Why pass brand-new, clean oil through a filter that’s already
carrying gunk from the old, dirty oil?

I just follow my manual that says every change. If yours differs, fine,
follow it.

On 03/26/2021 10:32 AM, mike wrote:
> I don't disagree on having your oil sent out after the fact for testing.

Different situation but when I was driving the standard was 12,000 miles
or about once a month. At 10 gallons or Rotella and two or three
filters, that adds up.

When the older trucks were being replaced with Volvo Whites with the
Detroit 60 engines, the shop foreman started a testing protocol.The
tests showed no significant degradation at 20,000 miles but that became
the new standard. When I asked him his reply was the oil had to be
changed sometime and 20,000 seemed like a reasonable target.

The Detroit 60's were game changers. A lot of them were hitting a
million miles without an in-frame rebuild. Previously most big diesels
were tired at about 700,000.

In article >, mike > wrote:
>On 26-03-2021 20:34 Scott Dorsey > wrote:
>
>> Because
>> if your car was made in 1990 then the oil described in the service manual
>> is no longer being manufactured.
>
>Stop being silly.
>It gets better with each designation.
>Sometimes it matters. Sometimes it don't.

Mostly it gets better. But I notice that you completely removed all of my
points about ZDDP.

The base oil gets better, but the additive package changes in ways that
may or may not be an improvement depending on your requirements.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 27-03-2021 05:00 Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

> The links are a bit contradictory.

I know exactly what the links said.
It's someone else who said the links didn't say what I said they said.

I'm not a believer in bull**** as you can probably tell by now.

> First link says:
> keep things simple by changing your oil filter every time

Nothing wrong with replacing your oil & filter every day of the week.
That's why I said it's OK whatever schedule others used.

Alls I said was the manufacturers often recommend every other interval.
Those who refuted that fact didn't produce a single reference.

I produced five.
Alls I'm saying is you can replace your filter on any schedule you like.

But don't claim manufacturers don't recommend every other oil change.
Everyone who claimed that so far has pulled it out of their asses.

That's all I'm saying. You do what you want. I do what I want.
I follow what the manufacturer recommends.
(1) I choose good oil (lasts longer than the manufacturers recommendation)
(2) I choose good filters (they last longer than the oil change interval)

> Second link says:
> Many manufacturers say to change the oil filter every other oil change.

Of course it says that.
It says what I said it said even though some dufus said it didn't say that.

Alls people are doing is pulling out recommendations from their own ass.
Nobody but me has supplied any references from manufacturers & manuals.

You do what you want to do.
I will continue to follow the manufacturers recommendation.
And I will continue to choose the best oil and oil filters I can figure out.

The only thing new to me is the huge number of synthetic oil specs.
I don't know how to choose a good synthetic oil yet.

There are too many specs to try to figure out at this point.
ACEA A1/B1, A5/B5, A3/B4 A5/B5-10, A5/B5-12
API SN, SN Plus, SN-RC, SM, SL, SP
BMW LL-01, LL-04
Chrysler MS 6395
FIAT 9.55535-H2, FIAT 9.55535-M2, FIAT 9.55535-N2
Ford WSS-M2C153-H, WSS-M2C929-A, WSS-M2C930-A, WSS-M2C945-A, WSS-M2C946-A, WSS-M2C947-A
GM-Opel LL B-025
GM 4718M, 6094M, LL-A-025, dexos1 Gen 2, Gen 3
Honda HTO-06
ILSAC GF-5, GF-4, GF-3
MB-Approval 229.5
Porsche A40
Renault RN0700, RN0710
VW 502 00 - 505 00

> many of them the same people who would never go past 3,000 miles
> would never dream of doing an oil change without also changing the filter.

Like I said many times before you do what you want to do with your oil.

But don't tell me my references don't say what I knows they say.
I didn't post the references without reading them first.

You alls pulled out everything you said from your own asses.

> Why pass brand-new, clean oil through

That's OK.
But what you pulled out of your asses is not what my manuals say.

> I just follow my manual that says every change.
> If yours differs, fine, follow it.

Just don't tell me my service manual don't say what I knows it says.
Everything most of you said you pulled out of your asses.

I'm not a believer in bull**** as you can probably tell by now.

Yet I'm new to buying synthetic at ~$2.50/qt so alls I want to know now
is how to tell the difference for sure between any two synthetics.

Does anyone here know how to tell one synthetic from another?

On 27-03-2021 12:35 Scott Dorsey > wrote:

> Mostly it gets better.

I agree. The API rating that I use most don't get worse.
The API quality rating started with SA/SB/SC and now it's SP (afaict).

I will say that I don't have a good way to compare all the standards though.
ACEA A1/B1, A5/B5, A3/B4 A5/B5-10, A5/B5-12
API SN, SN Plus, SN-RC, SM, SL, SP
BMW LL-01, LL-04
Chrysler MS 6395
FIAT 9.55535-H2, FIAT 9.55535-M2, FIAT 9.55535-N2
Ford WSS-M2C153-H, WSS-M2C929-A, WSS-M2C930-A, WSS-M2C945-A, WSS-M2C946-A, WSS-M2C947-A
GM-Opel LL B-025
GM 4718M, 6094M, LL-A-025, dexos1 Gen 2, Gen 3
Honda HTO-06
ILSAC GF-5, GF-4, GF-3
MB-Approval 229.5
Porsche A40
Renault RN0700, RN0710
VW 502 00 - 505 00

Do you?

> But I notice that you completely removed all of my
> points about ZDDP.

Do you own a diesel?

> The base oil gets better, but the additive package changes in ways that
> may or may not be an improvement depending on your requirements.

Does your gasoline engine vehicle have a modern cat?
Does your state do periodic smog inspections on that vehicle with a cat?

On 27-03-2021 09:06 Jim Joyce > wrote:

> Looks like I missed all the fun. I bought a '84 Toyota 4x4, new in '83, and
> have driven Toyotas ever since. So far none have died on me, except one
> that went up in flames after birds built a nest under the hood and I didn't
> notice until it was too late.

To your point I was a Detroit owner until I bought my first Japanese sedan.
Had a few German sedans in between but Japanese models never broke on me.
As I age I don't have time for Detroit garbage nor even German complexity.

What I need now that I'm shifting from conventional to synthetic is a good
way to tell the quality of any two oils from just the packages in my hands.

As you can tell by now I don't get my facts out of my ass so I'm willingly
admitting openly that I don't yet know how to compare any two synthetics.

Do you?
Does anyone?

How?

In article >, mike > wrote:
>On 27-03-2021 12:35 Scott Dorsey > wrote:
>
>> But I notice that you completely removed all of my
>> points about ZDDP.
>
>Do you own a diesel?

No, but I often drive older cars with tappet bearings, and that includes my
daily driver. Oils formulated for diesel engines are likely closer to the
oil they were originally designed for, however.

>> The base oil gets better, but the additive package changes in ways that
>> may or may not be an improvement depending on your requirements.
>
>Does your gasoline engine vehicle have a modern cat?
>Does your state do periodic smog inspections on that vehicle with a cat?

No on both counts.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In article >, mike > wrote:
>
>As you can tell by now I don't get my facts out of my ass so I'm willingly
>admitting openly that I don't yet know how to compare any two synthetics.
>
>Do you?
>Does anyone?
>
>How?

Same way you compare any two oils. Viscosity breakdown with time,
viscosity curve with temperature, adhesion, solvent characteristics,
ability to keep particulates in solution, three-ball test, etc.

There are standards for all this stuff and in general the European
standards are tighter than the US ones. It's interesting to look across
a given line... for example, the Castrol Syntec 10W-40 meets the latest
European standards but the 10W-30 and 10W-50 formulations do not.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."