Best no BS motor oil/filter comparison?

"WindsorFox<[SS]>" > wrote in message
...
> Ray O wrote:
>>> Oh, the valve covers were horrendous as well, I had to chisel the crap
>>> out with a screwdriver. They looked almost as bad as a 60K mile Pennzoil
>>> set of valve covers used to if you used it in the 70s.
>>>
>>
>> Hmmm, if you acquired the car with 40K or 50K miles, you have only the
>> original owner's word that the Syntec was used from day one and that the
>> oil was changed according to Ford's recommended intervals. I think a
>> more likely cause of the buildup is neglected oil changes, whether using
>> conventional or synthetic oil, and the original owner switched to Syntec
>> in hopes of cleaning out the sludge.
>
>
> You are incorrect. The original owner is a best friend I've known since
> middle school. I was there when he bought the car and told him that day
> when he sold it, I had first shot. I was the passenger or driver for a lot
> of those miles and I have the service records for the car and his word it
> never went more than 5K miles for a change if that. I was also there the
> day that he bought the first change of Syntec. He decided on Syntec
> because at the time he was a chemist for Ethyl and his unit was
> responsible for making the additives package for Castrol Syntec and I used
> Syntec at the time as well in my 85 Toyota truck. I'm not so sure he'd
> want to admit that now.
>
>
>> As far as the sludge in the valve cover, it was probably there before you
>> acquired the vehicle, but it is theoretically possible (though not
>> probable) that the sludge came from the Royal Purple or Amsoil products
>> or some kind or reaction from switching products.
>
>
>
> I'm sure the sludge was there before I bought it, and I'm also sure
> that the RP remove some of it too. What was left was hard and too far away
> for the oil flow to reach. In the years that have past since I made the
> mods to that engine, the valve covers that are on it now remain as free
> from gunk as they were when I put them on. You may use Sytec if you like,
> but after my experience I will steer clear of it and use a real synthetic
> oil.
>

Sounds like Syntec is not the way to go!
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

"Mark A" > wrote in message
...
> "HLS" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Your first sentence holds the essence of eternal truth. We know of no
>> argument
>> (for automobile engines) other than it costs more than a more traditional
>> treatment.
>>
>> People can choose what they will.
>>
>> I used this **** in a lawn mower engine (just after break-in) and it was
>> a BIG mistake.
>>
>> I would have no problem using it in my auto if the auto specifies it, if
>> it does not contribute
>> to seepage, and if it costs me little or no more than traditional
>> lubricants.
>
> I used synthetic in a Honda lawnmower (which cost me just a little less
> than a Civic). Had no problems and oil stayed clean for a long time. I
> sold the lawnmower 10 years later because I moved into a Condo.
>
> I also had an edger with a Briggs and Stratton engine and the oil turned
> black after one use.>

How long was that "one use", 6 months? That B&S better have been a diesel,
otherwise you're FOS.

1997 14hp Briggs. After dino break in has been on a steady diet of 15-50
Mobile 1 summer and 5-30 Wal-Mart synth in winter. No leaks, oil color after
season of use is markedly better than dino. Compression still the same as
day one.
I only use synth. in my air cooled motors. 15-50 is what's left of a 5qt jug
that is used in my Harley.

"HLS" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Mark A" > wrote in message news:0clYk.1725
>> I also had an edger with a Briggs and Stratton engine and the oil turned
>> black after one use. I knew immediately that the Briggs and Stratton
>> engine I had then (don't know about newer ones) was not suitably built
>> for synthetic oil (in the same way those Chevy Caprice and Crown Vic
>> engines used in NYC taxis are not suitable for synthetic oil).
>
> Mine was a B&S too, Mark.. The engine was ruined in short order.

jim wrote:

>
> As far as I know the type of dirt that gets into oil due to combustion
> byproducts is not going to be any different for synthetic oil.

That's true, and is a key part of this discussion. Too bad its being
discussed in terms of "synthetic" versus "conventional," because that
really doesn't matter. What DOES matter is the rest of the oil additive
package, in particular the compoenents that maintain the total base
number (TBN) and keep the oil from becoming acidic. You can have
synthetics with poor TBN control additive, and you can have
conventionals with good packages. Now *most* synthetics also happen to
be higher-end oils and have decent additive packages... but its not
BECAUSE they're synthetic.

Steve wrote:
> jim wrote:
>
>>
>> As far as I know the type of dirt that gets into oil due to
>> combustion
>> byproducts is not going to be any different for synthetic oil.
>
> That's true, and is a key part of this discussion. Too bad its being
> discussed in terms of "synthetic" versus "conventional," because that
> really doesn't matter. What DOES matter is the rest of the oil additive
> package, in particular the compoenents that maintain the total base
> number (TBN) and keep the oil from becoming acidic. You can have
> synthetics with poor TBN control additive, and you can have
> conventionals with good packages. Now *most* synthetics also happen to
> be higher-end oils and have decent additive packages... but its not
> BECAUSE they're synthetic.

That's why an inexpensive oil analysis is a good idea in order to
determine the optimal interval. Usually what it finds is that users of
conventional oil are changing their oil far too often, and those trying
to extend their oil changes to beyond 10,000 miles, with the use of
synthetics, have used up the oil additive package, especially in terms
of acid neutralizers, even though the oil still is lubricating. Perhaps
that's one of the reasons that Mobil backed down on it's original
marketing promotion of 25K oil changes.

"Hairy" > wrote in message
...
> How long was that "one use", 6 months? That B&S better have been a diesel,
> otherwise you're FOS.

No, The B&S got pretty dirty after first use. Maybe black after a couple of
uses. This was about 15 years ago when I first had the edger (no longer have
it). Engine worked OK for the 7-8 years I had it, but not anything like the
Honda which started the first pull of cord every time (and engine oil stayed
quite clean).

Mark A wrote:

> Yeah, I wouldn't put synthetic in a 10 year old Escort either. The cost of
> one synthetic oil change would total the car. But if you bought a excellent
> condition 98 Camry V6 XLE like my car, continuing to use synthetic oil (as
> has been done from the first oil change) would be a wise choice.
>
>

Escort, Camry, Accord... all generic people-transporters of the same
ilk. They're completely interchangeable cars as far as I'm concerned.

Mark A wrote:
> "HLS" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Your first sentence holds the essence of eternal truth. We know of no
>> argument
>> (for automobile engines) other than it costs more than a more traditional
>> treatment.
>>
>> People can choose what they will.
>>
>> I used this **** in a lawn mower engine (just after break-in) and it was a
>> BIG mistake.
>>
>> I would have no problem using it in my auto if the auto specifies it, if
>> it does not contribute
>> to seepage, and if it costs me little or no more than traditional
>> lubricants.
>
> I used synthetic in a Honda lawnmower (which cost me just a little less than
> a Civic). Had no problems and oil stayed clean for a long time. I sold the
> lawnmower 10 years later because I moved into a Condo.
>
> I also had an edger with a Briggs and Stratton engine and the oil turned
> black after one use. I knew immediately that the Briggs and Stratton engine
> I had then (don't know about newer ones) was not suitably built for
> synthetic oil (in the same way those Chevy Caprice and Crown Vic engines
> used in NYC taxis are not suitable for synthetic oil).
>
>

If you believe that particular engines are "not suitable for synthetic
oil," then there's no use trying to have an intelligent,
engineering-based discussion.

HLS wrote:
>
> "Mark A" > wrote in message news:0clYk.1725
>> I also had an edger with a Briggs and Stratton engine and the oil
>> turned black after one use. I knew immediately that the Briggs and
>> Stratton engine I had then (don't know about newer ones) was not
>> suitably built for synthetic oil (in the same way those Chevy Caprice
>> and Crown Vic engines used in NYC taxis are not suitable for synthetic
>> oil).
>
> Mine was a B&S too, Mark.. The engine was ruined in short order.

And I've been using synthetic oil in 2 B&S 6-horsepower lawnmowers and a
5-horsepower tiller for over 10 years now. All 3 are good as new,
despite being air-cooled engines that see most of their operation in
near-100 degree F ambient temperatures.

Of course the same was true of the 60s B&S engines I had back in the 70s
and 80s that only got single-grade SAE 30 dino oil, too. I just can't
kill a B&S, and I sure don't take it easy on them. I've only ever gotten
rid of a B&S powered mower because the mower deck fell apart around the
engine.

"Steve" > wrote in message
news
> If you believe that particular engines are "not suitable for synthetic
> oil," then there's no use trying to have an intelligent, engineering-based
> discussion.

Based on looking at the very dirty oil after first use on my Briggs and
Stratton engine, I made the determination that synthetic would not work well
in that engine, even though I had no problem with it in my Honda lawnmower.
Someone else mentioned in this thread that they put synthetic oil in a B&S
engine and it was ruined.

You can **** and moan about intelligence all you want to, but those are the
facts.