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The last straw



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 18th 15, 06:45 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
Budd Cochran[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 179
Default The last straw

I've followed every "guru's" tips and tricks I could find anywhere in
an effort to rid my 89 XJ (Cherokee, 4.0, auto) of the cutting out it
has been doing and today I even drained the savings account to get a
refurbished ECM (the computer under the dash).

I ran all the extra ground connections, soldered all the crimped
connector splices, tested or replaced all the sensors (including the TPS
and reset it to 16% of input voltage), cleaned all the wiring connector
plugs, cleaned the throttle body and injectors, replaced the fuel pump,
filter, pressure regulator, vacuum lines IAC, camshaft and lifters and
converted it to an open cooling system.

And it's still cutting out as bad as ever. I don't dare take it out of town.

One site's expert (http://www.lunghd.com), after I emailed to try and
get help, asked a few questions to clarify terminology, then never
replied back.

So now I have over $1500 in the non-driveable piece of junk and I
probably won't be able to sell it for that much.

But I'm listing it Monday anyway.

Maybe someone will trade me a burnt up Pinto even-steven ... I'd come
out ahead.

Budd


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  #2  
Old July 18th 15, 07:47 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
J. Clarke[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12
Default The last straw

In article >,
says...
> And it's still cutting out as bad as ever. I don't dare take it out of town.
>
>


Have you considered obtaining the services of a trained mechanic?
  #3  
Old July 18th 15, 07:37 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
Slimer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default The last straw

On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 01:45:30 -0400, Budd Cochran > wrote:

> I've followed every "guru's" tips and tricks I could find anywhere in
> an effort to rid my 89 XJ (Cherokee, 4.0, auto) of the cutting out it
> has been doing and today I even drained the savings account to get a
> refurbished ECM (the computer under the dash).
>
> I ran all the extra ground connections, soldered all the crimped
> connector splices, tested or replaced all the sensors (including the TPS
> and reset it to 16% of input voltage), cleaned all the wiring connector
> plugs, cleaned the throttle body and injectors, replaced the fuel pump,
> filter, pressure regulator, vacuum lines IAC, camshaft and lifters and
> converted it to an open cooling system.
>
> And it's still cutting out as bad as ever. I don't dare take it out of
> town.
>
> One site's expert (http://www.lunghd.com), after I emailed to try and
> get help, asked a few questions to clarify terminology, then never
> replied back.
>
> So now I have over $1500 in the non-driveable piece of junk and I
> probably won't be able to sell it for that much.
>
> But I'm listing it Monday anyway.
>
> Maybe someone will trade me a burnt up Pinto even-steven ... I'd come
> out ahead.


Who in their right mind would buy a non-driveable piece of junk, as you
call it, for $1500, especially since it is twenty-six years-old? My 2010
Jeep Patriot has ****ty ball joints (fixed though), like all Chrysler
products and I'm willing to get rid of it.

--
Slimer

Linux imbecile Peter "der Klöwn" Köhlmann
<https://plus.google.com/109168722444410572286> makes statement about
Youtube comments <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/block-youtube-comments>
in what has proven to be the dumbest statement in the history of USENET.
Further proof that Linux causes the brain to prematurely rot.
  #4  
Old July 18th 15, 10:33 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
Budd Cochran[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 179
Default The last straw

Aw ... now that's real helpful. Gee, thanks ...

And, fyi, my XJ does run ... just not well and there are people in my area
with more money than sense that will buy junk Jeeps, F4's, etc. to build
rock crawlers to take to Moab UT to destroy them or themselves.

If I could swap a carbed 258 with Torq-Command (AMC version of the famously
durable Mopar Torq-Flite) I'd keep the beastie and get better fuel economy
and off-road performance to boot.

As for yours ... did you ever lubed the joints?

Back when they (the EPA) first thought the average shadetree wrench twister
didn't know nuttin', they put plugs in the joints instead of zerks but we
removed them and put the zerks in and the joints could go 100,000 miles.

Hey, ya wanna swap even? but only if yours, like mine, is paid for.

--
Budd

Tolerance cannot be legislated, demanded
or coerced.

It must be given freely and unconditionally.


"Slimer" > wrote in message
news On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 01:45:30 -0400, Budd Cochran > wrote:

> I've followed every "guru's" tips and tricks I could find anywhere in
> an effort to rid my 89 XJ (Cherokee, 4.0, auto) of the cutting out it has
> been doing and today I even drained the savings account to get a
> refurbished ECM (the computer under the dash).
>
> I ran all the extra ground connections, soldered all the crimped
> connector splices, tested or replaced all the sensors (including the TPS
> and reset it to 16% of input voltage), cleaned all the wiring connector
> plugs, cleaned the throttle body and injectors, replaced the fuel pump,
> filter, pressure regulator, vacuum lines IAC, camshaft and lifters and
> converted it to an open cooling system.
>
> And it's still cutting out as bad as ever. I don't dare take it out of
> town.
>
> One site's expert (http://www.lunghd.com), after I emailed to try and get
> help, asked a few questions to clarify terminology, then never replied
> back.
>
> So now I have over $1500 in the non-driveable piece of junk and I
> probably won't be able to sell it for that much.
>
> But I'm listing it Monday anyway.
>
> Maybe someone will trade me a burnt up Pinto even-steven ... I'd come out
> ahead.


Who in their right mind would buy a non-driveable piece of junk, as you
call it, for $1500, especially since it is twenty-six years-old? My 2010
Jeep Patriot has ****ty ball joints (fixed though), like all Chrysler
products and I'm willing to get rid of it.

--
Slimer

Linux imbecile Peter "der Klöwn" Köhlmann
<https://plus.google.com/109168722444410572286> makes statement about
Youtube comments <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/block-youtube-comments>
in what has proven to be the dumbest statement in the history of USENET.
Further proof that Linux causes the brain to prematurely rot.



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  #5  
Old July 18th 15, 10:46 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
Budd Cochran[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 179
Default The last straw

Funny you should ask ... I are one (small engines to heavy equipment,
including diesels), but I've not been able to keep up with these
computerized injection systems due to working other jobs and because I
didn't go to one of the diploma mills like WyoTech (my middle son went toWyo
@ Laramie and was constantly calling home to learn how to do things his
"instructor" couldn't do)... and I am 68 years old, you see.

Oh, and being on fixed income I can't afford the $100+ /hour diagnostic fees
IF they have the right scanner (currently $1500+ US to buy if they can find
one) for an OBD1 (no retained codes) system.

The symptoms, if it a carbureted engine, are like gasoline contaminated with
water but the first thing I did was put in two cans of HEET (alcohol) at a
fill up from a trusted station (where I've got my gas for years) so water
isn't likely and a settling test (a small amount pumped into a glass
container by the fuel pump and set aside for an hour) shows no water or
foriegn material.

--
Budd

Tolerance cannot be legislated, demanded
or coerced.

It must be given freely and unconditionally.


"J. Clarke" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> says...
>> And it's still cutting out as bad as ever. I don't dare take it out of
>> town.
>>
>>

>
> Have you considered obtaining the services of a trained mechanic?




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  #7  
Old July 19th 15, 04:54 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
Slimer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default The last straw

On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 17:33:53 -0400, Budd Cochran > wrote:

> Aw ... now that's real helpful. Gee, thanks ...
>
> And, fyi, my XJ does run ... just not well and there are people in my
> area
> with more money than sense that will buy junk Jeeps, F4's, etc. to build
> rock crawlers to take to Moab UT to destroy them or themselves.
>
> If I could swap a carbed 258 with Torq-Command (AMC version of the
> famously
> durable Mopar Torq-Flite) I'd keep the beastie and get better fuel
> economy
> and off-road performance to boot.
>
> As for yours ... did you ever lubed the joints?
>
> Back when they (the EPA) first thought the average shadetree wrench
> twister
> didn't know nuttin', they put plugs in the joints instead of zerks but we
> removed them and put the zerks in and the joints could go 100,000 miles.
>
> Hey, ya wanna swap even? but only if yours, like mine, is paid for.


The joints can't be lubed apparently. I don't work on cars myself but
these joints are such garbage that people tend to replace them at about
30,000 miles which is clearly a lot sooner than most cars. I fixed two of
them at the dealer (and they put in the same kind of part as the original)
but replaced a third with a superior part from what seems to be Moog (now
sold as the Nascar brand apparently, at least here in Canada). That part
has a lifetime warranty whereas what Jeep puts in doesn't have a warranty
any longer than a year. You can be sure that when these ball joints break
again, I won't be going to Jeep to get them fixed. Also, the superior
parts _CAN_ be lubed unlike Jeep's.

But yeah, the car's paid-for... but even if I wanted to swap for a much
older Jeep, I doubt you're anywhere near Montreal.

--
Slimer

Linux imbecile Peter "der Klöwn" Köhlmann
<https://plus.google.com/109168722444410572286> makes statement about
Youtube comments <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/block-youtube-comments>
in what has proven to be the dumbest statement in the history of USENET.
Further proof that Linux causes the brain to prematurely rot.
  #8  
Old July 19th 15, 04:57 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
Budd Cochran[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 179
Default The last straw

On 7/18/2015 4:57 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
>>
>> Funny you should ask ... I are one (small engines to heavy equipment,
>> including diesels), but I've not been able to keep up with these
>> computerized injection systems due to working other jobs and because I
>> didn't go to one of the diploma mills like WyoTech (my middle son went to Wyo
>> @ Laramie and was constantly calling home to learn how to do things his
>> "instructor" couldn't do)... and I am 68 years old, you see.
>>
>> Oh, and being on fixed income I can't afford the $100+ /hour diagnostic fees
>> IF they have the right scanner (currently $1500+ US to buy if they can find
>> one) for an OBD1 (no retained codes) system.
>>
>> The symptoms, if it a carbureted engine, are like gasoline contaminated with
>> water but the first thing I did was put in two cans of HEET (alcohol) at a
>> fill up from a trusted station (where I've got my gas for years) so water
>> isn't likely and a settling test (a small amount pumped into a glass
>> container by the fuel pump and set aside for an hour) shows no water or
>> foriegn material.

>
> Have you managed to find out what isn't working, specifically?
>

Well, obviously not if I'm wanting to sell it and if you had read my
posts more carefully you wouldn't have asked because it would also have
been obvious that I would have fixed/replaced the defective item.

It's a bit hard to be in two places at once, ya know.

For example: I can't be watching the tach for an RPM drop while also
reading a voltmeter connected to the ignition module (my wife is not
mechanically inclined along with being on O2 24/7 and I do not have any
available help in my neighborhood).

Or reading a fuel pressure tester (as if I have one!) when checking RPM
drops on the tach.

Get the idea????

Now. I would appreciate it if everyone would engage brain before asking
more questions of this type.

You want more info? Read previous postings about the 89 XtremeJunker by
me ... it's all there.

As for what is not working "specifically", how about "the whole
dangblasted Renix system"?

Budd

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  #9  
Old July 19th 15, 09:21 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
J. Clarke[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12
Default The last straw

In article >,
says...
>
> On 7/18/2015 4:57 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> > In article >,

> > says...
> >>
> >> Funny you should ask ... I are one (small engines to heavy equipment,
> >> including diesels), but I've not been able to keep up with these
> >> computerized injection systems due to working other jobs and because I
> >> didn't go to one of the diploma mills like WyoTech (my middle son went to Wyo
> >> @ Laramie and was constantly calling home to learn how to do things his
> >> "instructor" couldn't do)... and I am 68 years old, you see.
> >>
> >> Oh, and being on fixed income I can't afford the $100+ /hour diagnostic fees
> >> IF they have the right scanner (currently $1500+ US to buy if they can find
> >> one) for an OBD1 (no retained codes) system.
> >>
> >> The symptoms, if it a carbureted engine, are like gasoline contaminated with
> >> water but the first thing I did was put in two cans of HEET (alcohol) at a
> >> fill up from a trusted station (where I've got my gas for years) so water
> >> isn't likely and a settling test (a small amount pumped into a glass
> >> container by the fuel pump and set aside for an hour) shows no water or
> >> foriegn material.

> >
> > Have you managed to find out what isn't working, specifically?
> >

> Well, obviously not if I'm wanting to sell it and if you had read my
> posts more carefully you wouldn't have asked because it would also have
> been obvious that I would have fixed/replaced the defective item.
>
> It's a bit hard to be in two places at once, ya know.


So how _ever_ did you get by before you had a computer to tell you scan
codes?

> For example: I can't be watching the tach for an RPM drop while also
> reading a voltmeter connected to the ignition module (my wife is not
> mechanically inclined along with being on O2 24/7 and I do not have any
> available help in my neighborhood).
>
> Or reading a fuel pressure tester (as if I have one!) when checking RPM
> drops on the tach.
>
> Get the idea????


Yeah, the idea I get is that you seem awful short of tools for someone
claiming to be a trained mechanic. Harbor Freight will sell you a
multimeter with tach for 35 bucks and a fuel pressure tester for 20
bucks. I find it strange that an experienced mechanic would shotgun the
problem to the tune of 1500 bucks without spending a hundred or so on
the tools to do a proper diagnosis.

> Now. I would appreciate it if everyone would engage brain before asking
> more questions of this type.
>
> You want more info? Read previous postings about the 89 XtremeJunker by
> me ... it's all there.


Where? Google can't find it either in the main search or in Groups.

> As for what is not working "specifically", how about "the whole
> dangblasted Renix system"?


So which is it, is it an OBD1 system or is it a Renix system? And when
you say "the whole blasted system" do you mean that there is no signal
on _any_ of the engine control wiring?
  #10  
Old July 19th 15, 06:33 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
Budd Cochran[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 179
Default The last straw


"J. Clarke" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> says...
>>
>> On 7/18/2015 4:57 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> > In article >,

>> > says...
>> >>
>> >> Funny you should ask ... I are one (small engines to heavy equipment,
>> >> including diesels), but I've not been able to keep up with these
>> >> computerized injection systems due to working other jobs and because I
>> >> didn't go to one of the diploma mills like WyoTech (my middle son went
>> >> to Wyo
>> >> @ Laramie and was constantly calling home to learn how to do things
>> >> his
>> >> "instructor" couldn't do)... and I am 68 years old, you see.
>> >>
>> >> Oh, and being on fixed income I can't afford the $100+ /hour
>> >> diagnostic fees
>> >> IF they have the right scanner (currently $1500+ US to buy if they can
>> >> find
>> >> one) for an OBD1 (no retained codes) system.
>> >>
>> >> The symptoms, if it a carbureted engine, are like gasoline
>> >> contaminated with
>> >> water but the first thing I did was put in two cans of HEET (alcohol)
>> >> at a
>> >> fill up from a trusted station (where I've got my gas for years) so
>> >> water
>> >> isn't likely and a settling test (a small amount pumped into a glass
>> >> container by the fuel pump and set aside for an hour) shows no water
>> >> or
>> >> foriegn material.
>> >
>> > Have you managed to find out what isn't working, specifically?
>> >

>> Well, obviously not if I'm wanting to sell it and if you had read my
>> posts more carefully you wouldn't have asked because it would also have
>> been obvious that I would have fixed/replaced the defective item.
>>
>> It's a bit hard to be in two places at once, ya know.

>
> So how _ever_ did you get by before you had a computer to tell you scan
> codes?


What computer to scan codes??? t's a OBD1 system and DOES NOT retain codes.

If you truly knew the old Renix F.I. system you would know that as well as I
do and as mentioned the correct test ing equipment is very rare and
expensive today.
>
>> For example: I can't be watching the tach for an RPM drop while also
>> reading a voltmeter connected to the ignition module (my wife is not
>> mechanically inclined along with being on O2 24/7 and I do not have any
>> available help in my neighborhood).
>>
>> Or reading a fuel pressure tester (as if I have one!) when checking RPM
>> drops on the tach.
>>
>> Get the idea????

>
> Yeah, the idea I get is that you seem awful short of tools for someone
> claiming to be a trained mechanic. Harbor Freight will sell you a
> multimeter with tach for 35 bucks and a fuel pressure tester for 20
> bucks. I find it strange that an experienced mechanic would shotgun the
> problem to the tune of 1500 bucks without spending a hundred or so on
> the tools to do a proper diagnosis.


And I find it strange that you cannot seem to grasp the concept that I just
might not, on my limited and fixed income, be able to afford to keep the
$7000 dollars (1960's value ... about $75000 in today's dollars) worth of
tools I had at one time (had to hock most in the divorce in '73) nor run
down to the nearest Harbor Freight (well known for low quality tools, btw)
40 miles away in my XJ that isn't dependable enough to trust outside of the
city limits and neither H.F. nor Wally World carries the Renix system test
equipment for $19.95 (special today only!!!).
>
>> Now. I would appreciate it if everyone would engage brain before asking
>> more questions of this type.
>>
>> You want more info? Read previous postings about the 89 XtremeJunker by
>> me ... it's all there.

>
> Where? Google can't find it either in the main search or in Groups.


What newsreader are you using?? I use either Outlook Express on the XP PC
(this one) or Mozilla Thunderbird on my Win7 PC and all I have to do is
download more than, let's say, 300 articles to get the old threads.

But I belive the pertinent articles are no more than 3-4 months back.

>> As for what is not working "specifically", how about "the whole
>> dangblasted Renix system"?

>
> So which is it, is it an OBD1 system or is it a Renix system? And when
> you say "the whole blasted system" do you mean that there is no signal
> on _any_ of the engine control wiring?


Renix used the "no retained codes" OBD1 type programming.

And I mean the whole darn system sucks from the first computerized engine
management systms to todays crap.

But, based on the responses you've given me, I'd say you are probably an
advocated for modern engine control systems and consider anything prior to
be not worth consideration even though it was far more "user friendly" and
dependable.


--
Budd

Tolerance cannot be legislated, demanded
or coerced.

It must be given freely and unconditionally.



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