5W vs 10W oil

Old Crow wrote:

> Just checked the O'Reilly's web site. They list 2 different gaskets
> for the 6 cyl. Both Fel-Pro, one priced and $6.69, and the other at
> $45.99. I wonder if the expensive one is really all that much better?
> I don't think I'll be the one to find out.

Nor will I. 46$! Thing must be made of gold or painted rice racer yellow.

My 93 I6 is supposed to use a form-in-place gasket. Basically a bead
of RTV like stuff that is supposed to be "reusable" but hardly ever is.


--
DougW

"DougW" > wrote in message
...
> Old Crow wrote:
>
>> Just checked the O'Reilly's web site. They list 2 different gaskets
>> for the 6 cyl. Both Fel-Pro, one priced and $6.69, and the other at
>> $45.99. I wonder if the expensive one is really all that much better?
>> I don't think I'll be the one to find out.
>
> Nor will I. 46$! Thing must be made of gold or painted rice racer yellow.
>
> My 93 I6 is supposed to use a form-in-place gasket. Basically a bead
> of RTV like stuff that is supposed to be "reusable" but hardly ever is.
>
>
> --
> DougW
>


From the pics the expensive one appears to be a silicon "spaghetti" type
while the $6 one is cork. This'll actually be the first time I've done this
particular one, but then it's the 6th Jeep I've had so it's not like it'll
be the first one I've ever done.

--
Old Crow
'82 FLTC(P) 92"
'87 FLTC
'61 F-100 302/C-6
BS#133, SENS, TOMKAT, SLOB#13, MAMBM

DougW wrote:

> I swear the valve cover in my 93 hates me. I'm >< this close
> to welding it on. Strange thing is it doesn't leak down the back,
> it leaks over #3 piston and there isn't bend one in it.. both head and
> cover are dead flat. Still using 10W30 Castrol Syntec with no real
> loss between changes. 162,000 and still under the blower. Just finished
> up getting the tranny output shaft seal redone. so it's one less spot
> in the driveway.

Check your tightening order. Mine finally quit doing that when I got real
picky and made sure that I snugged the one over the leak point (#3, just
like yours) then got all the rest finger tight. Started at the leak point
and worked both ways going about half a turn on each bolt until all were
tight. PITA to do it that way but that gasket has held tight for over 5
years now.

--
Will Honea

Will Honea wrote:
> DougW wrote:
>
>> I swear the valve cover in my 93 hates me. I'm >< this close
>> to welding it on. Strange thing is it doesn't leak down the back,
>> it leaks over #3 piston and there isn't bend one in it.. both head and
>> cover are dead flat. Still using 10W30 Castrol Syntec with no real
>> loss between changes. 162,000 and still under the blower. Just finished
>> up getting the tranny output shaft seal redone. so it's one less spot
>> in the driveway.
>
> Check your tightening order. Mine finally quit doing that when I got real
> picky and made sure that I snugged the one over the leak point (#3, just
> like yours) then got all the rest finger tight. Started at the leak point
> and worked both ways going about half a turn on each bolt until all were
> tight. PITA to do it that way but that gasket has held tight for over 5
> years now.
>
If you have the plastic type cover, beware getting crazy and
overtightening it. Makes the leaks worse. This is a 95, where the
gasket material may be different.

Cork gaskets are nice, but if over compressed don't recover as well as
silicon or synth rubber ones. Not that whatever is under the mopar
cover does either... Someday I'll put a hesco aluminium one on.

PeterD wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 10:52:10 -0600, "Old Crow" >
> wrote:
>
>> "Lon" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> ps56k wrote:
>>>> While our Jeep is sitting ready for our snowy & cold Chicago weather,
>>>> I took my son's 2004 Impala LS in for a local shop oil change...
>>>> The records show he has been using a 10W high mileage oil - 92k -
>>>> However, the engine cap & manual indicate 5W should be used.
>>>>
>>>> In surfing, it appears that 10W is recommended for older cars
>>>> with looser engine tolerances....
>>>> and newer cars should use 5W with tigher engine tolerances.
>>>>
>>>> So - is it only a viscosity thing ?
>>>> Any issues with the 10W high mileage oil vs a 5W version ?
>>> Some engines require the 5W-xx type oils, since it isn't a jeep no idea
>>> about the Chevvie. One issue that *might* be a problem would be for the
>>> specific oil and type--it may be a bit too thick at Chicago temperatures
>>> to lube properly for the first few seconds at startup.
>>>
>>
>> Just as a point of info. Last week I put a motor in a Caddilac CTS. The
>> extended warranty that the guy bought with the car(*not* a GM
>> warranty)refused the claim because he hadn't been using the Mobil 1 that GM
>> requires for that engine.
>> Not saying the oil was the cause of the problem, just that the warranty
>> company used it as a convienient(sp?)excuse to deny the claim.
>
> Which MAY put them in violation of federal law, but I suspect that
> what you call a convienient excuse in fact is just reality, the owner
> should have used the lubricant that the manufacturer specified.

Many modern engines just dont work well with non-synth. e.g. the
variable displacement hemi where it appears many early problems with mds
were owners and even a few mechanics who "knew more than the designers"
about proper oil.

Pure synth doesnt seem to have any negative effects on the old I-6 even
with high mileage, but thats another matter best avoided before the
ams*1l loons grep in and clutter up the froup.

Lon wrote:
> Will Honea wrote:
>> DougW wrote:
>>
>>> I swear the valve cover in my 93 hates me. I'm >< this close
>>> to welding it on. Strange thing is it doesn't leak down the back,
>>> it leaks over #3 piston and there isn't bend one in it.. both head
>>> and cover are dead flat. Still using 10W30 Castrol Syntec with no
>>> real loss between changes. 162,000 and still under the blower. Just finished up getting the tranny output shaft seal redone. so
>>> it's one less spot in the driveway.
>>
>> Check your tightening order. Mine finally quit doing that when I
>> got real picky and made sure that I snugged the one over the leak
>> point (#3, just like yours) then got all the rest finger tight. Started at the leak point and worked both ways going about half a
>> turn on each bolt until all were tight. PITA to do it that way but
>> that gasket has held tight for over 5 years now.

I'll do that next time. Generally I work my way out from the center
in a couple of runs but doing it in one shot might work better.

> If you have the plastic type cover, beware getting crazy and
> overtightening it. Makes the leaks worse. This is a 95, where the
> gasket material may be different.
>
> Cork gaskets are nice, but if over compressed don't recover as well as
> silicon or synth rubber ones. Not that whatever is under the mopar
> cover does either... Someday I'll put a hesco aluminium one on.

The 93 has an aluminum valve cover and uses a bead of sealant that is
supposed to be reusable (factory applied) but it long gave up. Last
time I tried cork it leaked down the back so I went back to using just
permatex form-a-gasket.

--
DougW

DougW wrote:

> The 93 has an aluminum valve cover and uses a bead of sealant that is
> supposed to be reusable (factory applied) but it long gave up. Last
> time I tried cork it leaked down the back so I went back to using just
> permatex form-a-gasket.

I wasn't sure which you had - that plastic is a leak-by-definition AFAIAC.
My son had a 94 XJ with the aluminum cover and wanted something to hold "for
one trip" - you know those kinds of fixes I'm sure. We pulled the cover,
cleaned the cover and head with brake cleaner, then took a tube of hi-temp
silicon (sensor safe type) and laid a heavy bead all around it. Took a
putty knife and tapered so that it filled in a triangle from the inner lip
to a fine line at the outer edge. He had some 3/16 doweling on the bench so
we cut some lengths and stuck it in the 4 bolt holes for a guide (as well as
keeping the holes clean) and set the cover on while the RTV was still wet.
Pressed lightly just to get it in place then let it set for 3-4 hours before
putting the bolts in and tightening them with a screwdriver handle and a
socket. That set overnight and he took off the next day - Colorado to CA
back to Texas and home to CO. No leaks and it was still holding when he
sold the XJ about 4 years later. I'm not sure what was more important:
really clean surfaces or getting it down so that the bolts applied just a
little pressure to the semi-cured RTV to compress it. Mike Romain always
swore that the clean surfaces and silicon was the solution and thought the
gaskets were useless so we tried it.

--
Will Honea

"Will Honea" > wrote in message
...
> DougW wrote:
>
>> The 93 has an aluminum valve cover and uses a bead of sealant that is
>> supposed to be reusable (factory applied) but it long gave up. Last
>> time I tried cork it leaked down the back so I went back to using just
>> permatex form-a-gasket.
>
> I wasn't sure which you had - that plastic is a leak-by-definition AFAIAC.
> My son had a 94 XJ with the aluminum cover and wanted something to hold
> "for
> one trip" - you know those kinds of fixes I'm sure. We pulled the cover,
> cleaned the cover and head with brake cleaner, then took a tube of hi-temp
> silicon (sensor safe type) and laid a heavy bead all around it. Took a
> putty knife and tapered so that it filled in a triangle from the inner lip
> to a fine line at the outer edge. He had some 3/16 doweling on the bench
> so
> we cut some lengths and stuck it in the 4 bolt holes for a guide (as well
> as
> keeping the holes clean) and set the cover on while the RTV was still wet.
> Pressed lightly just to get it in place then let it set for 3-4 hours
> before
> putting the bolts in and tightening them with a screwdriver handle and a
> socket. That set overnight and he took off the next day - Colorado to CA
> back to Texas and home to CO. No leaks and it was still holding when he
> sold the XJ about 4 years later. I'm not sure what was more important:
> really clean surfaces or getting it down so that the bolts applied just a
> little pressure to the semi-cured RTV to compress it. Mike Romain always
> swore that the clean surfaces and silicon was the solution and thought the
> gaskets were useless so we tried it.
>
> --
> Will Honea
>


Having worked for GM as a service tech for over 20 years, I'd vote for the
clean surfaces.
I've had to virtually destroy oil pans that were installed correctly with
silicone to get them off of engines. In fact, this is probably the method
I'll use to repair mine when I get to it.
I get to spend over a grand in parts after the holidays to repair all the
little crap that's gone wrong on the Jeep my wife's been driving for the
last 5 years. With my luck, after I get it done she'll want it back and
leave me the '95 4 cyl I just bought her.
Either way, I'm OK, both the Wranglers have better heaters than the '61 F100
I've been driving.

--
Old Crow
'82 FLTC(P) 92"
'87 FLTC
'61 F-100 302/C-6
BS#133, SENS, TOMKAT, SLOB#13, MAMBM

Old Crow wrote:

> Either way, I'm OK, both the Wranglers have better heaters than the '61
> F100 I've been driving.

LOL! We drove one of those for years before Dad died - he bought it new.
Same problem after a while. Yanked the heater core, threw it in the tank
and soaked it for a few days. Sucker was plugged almost solid with the
accumulated gunk from using well water in the cooling system and the annual
flush never got any of it out.

After a loooonnnngggg soak, it would run you out of the cab. Lots more
comfort than you'll get out of fixing the wife's Jeep.

A little off topic, but do you know of any solvents for that silicone/RTV
stuff? A local outfit that refinishes bath tubs and such actually refuses
to work on any appliances in a bath that has been sealed with silicone -
claims he can't get it off and any trace screws up his finish.

--
Will Honea

Old Crow wrote:

> Having worked for GM as a service tech for over 20 years, I'd vote
> for the clean surfaces.
> I've had to virtually destroy oil pans that were installed correctly
> with silicone to get them off of engines. In fact, this is probably
> the method I'll use to repair mine when I get to it.
> I get to spend over a grand in parts after the holidays to repair all
> the little crap that's gone wrong on the Jeep my wife's been driving
> for the last 5 years. With my luck, after I get it done she'll want
> it back and leave me the '95 4 cyl I just bought her.
> Either way, I'm OK, both the Wranglers have better heaters than the
> '61 F100 I've been driving.

I saw a mechanic split seals with spiderwire fishing line between two
dowels, just like a garrote. That was on a diff cover though. Dual
purpose tool.

One other tool that works is a cut down trowel. Just turn it into a flag
looking contraption and sharpen it like a draw knife. It will need a
better bead on the shaft to hold it together.

--
DougW