Brake rotors already grooving

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 00:34:39 GMT, the fly > wrote:

>On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 15:22:02 -0800, John Ings >
>wrote:
>>>
>>>Every time. And we aren't "turn-the-rotor enthusiasts"....we are people
>>>that see what a "new" rotor will cost the customer. It's much more
>>>cost effective to machine rotors. Done properly, it works very well.
>>
>>My experience is that the turned rotors go bad within a few months and
>>you end up needing new ones anyway.
>
> Then someone's doing something wrong. Machining brake rotors
>is a fairly exacting skill, but it isn't rocket science. Get the job
>done correctly, and they'll last just as well as brand new.

If it's a truck.

> >LOL >> Ever wonder why your life is so ****ed up? Most people are born with
a
> >little common sense! Except in your case where as you are at an all time low!
>>
> >Probably born in the negative margin - or possibly your lacking brain cells -
> >maybe when someone figures out what to do with stem-cell technology --
someone
> >may find a need to do some much needed maintenance on your cerebral cortex!
>
> Translation: He's been shot down and he hopes creative invective will
> be mistaken for devastating riposte.




I have not changed my view - I will always cut new rotors. I have always cut
brand spanking new rotors done so, for the past 20 years - am not a auto-tech no
real hands (except when I was a kid) on-I hate oil/grease under my fingernails
<grin>! -- Although I do carry the ASE master tech certification!!! Have so for
the past 19 years! As I run my own shop. Have so for the past 27 years.
Experience is what tells me that if the auto tech turns that brand new rotor
that could possibly be nicked scratched or warped! I have better chance that the
vehicle in question will *not* have any near future brake issues. I certainly do
not need for that vehicle to "come back"!!! I don't care what the manufacture BS
bulletins say. Bulletin pertains to dealer issued parts!!! -- I do not purchase
expensive dealer parts - - simply not enough of a profit! Plus am in Arrowhead
(Big Bear, CA) Area! No dealers for several miles - 40+ miles!

Lately has been unreal - there is NO gas here - all the gas stations are out of
gas! By this weekend >> FOOD << will become an issue!!

Anyways I have to get back... BTW >> this crap is NOT over >>Grin<< I will be
back!!!! \

BBA

Hey, Lawrence this isn't you is it? >> http://www.netiquettes.info << kidding
<smile>

So you aren't a rip off mechanic, you are just a rip off shop owner!
LOL!

My statement about the newspapers 'loving' to expose jerks like you
still stands. What's the local rags name?

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

"Billy Bad Ass ©" wrote:
>
> > >LOL >> Ever wonder why your life is so ****ed up? Most people are born with
> a
> > >little common sense! Except in your case where as you are at an all time low!
> >>
> > >Probably born in the negative margin - or possibly your lacking brain cells -
> > >maybe when someone figures out what to do with stem-cell technology --
> someone
> > >may find a need to do some much needed maintenance on your cerebral cortex!
> >
> > Translation: He's been shot down and he hopes creative invective will
> > be mistaken for devastating riposte.
>
> I have not changed my view - I will always cut new rotors. I have always cut
> brand spanking new rotors done so, for the past 20 years - am not a auto-tech no
> real hands (except when I was a kid) on-I hate oil/grease under my fingernails
> <grin>! -- Although I do carry the ASE master tech certification!!! Have so for
> the past 19 years! As I run my own shop. Have so for the past 27 years.
> Experience is what tells me that if the auto tech turns that brand new rotor
> that could possibly be nicked scratched or warped! I have better chance that the
> vehicle in question will *not* have any near future brake issues. I certainly do
> not need for that vehicle to "come back"!!! I don't care what the manufacture BS
> bulletins say. Bulletin pertains to dealer issued parts!!! -- I do not purchase
> expensive dealer parts - - simply not enough of a profit! Plus am in Arrowhead
> (Big Bear, CA) Area! No dealers for several miles - 40+ miles!
>
> Lately has been unreal - there is NO gas here - all the gas stations are out of
> gas! By this weekend >> FOOD << will become an issue!!
>
> Anyways I have to get back... BTW >> this crap is NOT over >>Grin<< I will be
> back!!!! \
>
> BBA
>
> Hey, Lawrence this isn't you is it? >> http://www.netiquettes.info << kidding
> <smile>

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 07:14:39 -0800, "Billy Bad Ass ©"
> wrote:

>> >LOL >> Ever wonder why your life is so ****ed up? Most people are born with
>a
>> >little common sense! Except in your case where as you are at an all time low!
>>>
>> >Probably born in the negative margin - or possibly your lacking brain cells -
>> >maybe when someone figures out what to do with stem-cell technology --
>someone
>> >may find a need to do some much needed maintenance on your cerebral cortex!
>>
>> Translation: He's been shot down and he hopes creative invective will
>> be mistaken for devastating riposte.
>
>
>
>
>I have not changed my view - I will always cut new rotors. I have always cut
>brand spanking new rotors done so, for the past 20 years - am not a auto-tech no
>real hands (except when I was a kid) on-I hate oil/grease under my fingernails
><grin>! -- Although I do carry the ASE master tech certification!!! Have so for
>the past 19 years! As I run my own shop. Have so for the past 27 years.
>Experience is what tells me that if the auto tech turns that brand new rotor
>that could possibly be nicked scratched or warped! I have better chance that the
>vehicle in question will *not* have any near future brake issues. I certainly do
>not need for that vehicle to "come back"!!! I don't care what the manufacture BS
>bulletins say. Bulletin pertains to dealer issued parts!!! -- I do not purchase
>expensive dealer parts - - simply not enough of a profit! Plus am in Arrowhead
>(Big Bear, CA) Area! No dealers for several miles - 40+ miles!
>
>Lately has been unreal - there is NO gas here - all the gas stations are out of
>gas! By this weekend >> FOOD << will become an issue!!
>
> Anyways I have to get back... BTW >> this crap is NOT over >>Grin<< I will be
>back!!!! \
>
>BBA
>
>Hey, Lawrence this isn't you is it? >> http://www.netiquettes.info << kidding
><smile>

Ian says cut the rotors, billy says cut the rotors, so far as American
Iron is concerned, the word out now is *cut the rotors.* Not only
that, this has been going on for at least 20 years. Cut the damn
rotors. Well, shave .005 off them anyhow. Except after you've done
that a couple of times, it is time to toss the rotors because they are
now too thin and will warp from _heat_.

Except, the manufacturers say "Don't do that." And not only that, if
you do cut them, do it on the vehicle, not on a separate lathe.

The only thing I've got out of this thread to date that I can believe
is that proper HUB preparation is necessary. You need a really
_clean_ hub so that jacking doesn't affect the runout. And if you cut
them "on the vehicle" I am almost certain that this STEP has been
omitted. And it seems to me that is the more important of the steps.

And I'm not going to be convinced that cutting the rotors is necessary
-every- time the pads are changed, although I am convinced that the
rotor needs to be removed, and the _hub_ has to be cleaned down to
bare metal. I'm also of the mind that any glazing of the rotor should
be removed, but I do that with emery cloth. And yes this thread is
over, as far as I'm concerned.

Lg

Lawrence Glickman wrote:

> Ian says cut the rotors, billy says cut the rotors, so far as American
> Iron is concerned, the word out now is *cut the rotors.* Not only
> that, this has been going on for at least 20 years. Cut the damn
> rotors. Well, shave .005 off them anyhow. Except after you've done
> that a couple of times, it is time to toss the rotors because they are
> now too thin and will warp from _heat_.

Hey Laurence.....you need glasses, or reading comprehension lessons.
Billy says "turn brand new rotors before installing them"....Ian doesn't
say that. Ian says that there isn't anything wrong with turning rotors
on a routine brake job......and as far as I'm concerned you could
quite easily "not" turn the rotors on a routine brake job and 50 percent
of the time it would be no problem....but the other 50 percent are
what bite you in the ass, so from a business standpoint, you are better
off to machine all rotors on a routine brake job. If you are a DIY'er,
do whatever you want. I've slapped pads only on my own cars at
times, works fine, but of course I don't bitch at myself if it isn't
perfect.

> Except, the manufacturers say "Don't do that." And not only that, if
> you do cut them, do it on the vehicle, not on a separate lathe.

GM doesn't say that....they say that if this, that, or the other is all
good, you don't need to machine rotors. And that's great, but most
vehicles that come in for a brake job have issues with the rotors, whether
it's thickness variation, runout, or surfaces that are rusted, flaking,
grooved
excessively...etc. They also don't say that you have to cut them on
the vehicle...hell...they just made the on vehicle lathe a "required tool"
about
a month ago, and that's because of the captured rotors on the new mid
size trucks. You don't know what you are talking about.

> The only thing I've got out of this thread to date that I can believe
> is that proper HUB preparation is necessary. You need a really
> _clean_ hub so that jacking doesn't affect the runout. And if you cut
> them "on the vehicle" I am almost certain that this STEP has been
> omitted. And it seems to me that is the more important of the steps.

See....you don't know what you are talking about. Would you like
me to round up the GM instructions for preparation of the rotor
and hub "even" when using the on vehicle lathe? Ah...why bother,
you wouldn't "get it" anyway.

> And I'm not going to be convinced that cutting the rotors is necessary
> -every- time the pads are changed, although I am convinced that the
> rotor needs to be removed, and the _hub_ has to be cleaned down to
> bare metal. I'm also of the mind that any glazing of the rotor should
> be removed, but I do that with emery cloth.

You do whatever makes you happy. As long as it keeps you from
beaking off in the forums...I'm ok with it.

Ian

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 07:14:40 GMT, "shiden_kai"
> wrote:

>Lawrence Glickman wrote:
>
>> Ian says cut the rotors, billy says cut the rotors, so far as American
>> Iron is concerned, the word out now is *cut the rotors.* Not only
>> that, this has been going on for at least 20 years. Cut the damn
>> rotors. Well, shave .005 off them anyhow. Except after you've done
>> that a couple of times, it is time to toss the rotors because they are
>> now too thin and will warp from _heat_.
>
>Hey Laurence.....you need glasses, or reading comprehension lessons.
>Billy says "turn brand new rotors before installing them"....Ian doesn't
>say that.

So you and Billy disagree?

> Ian says that there isn't anything wrong with turning rotors
>on a routine brake job......and as far as I'm concerned you could
>quite easily "not" turn the rotors on a routine brake job and 50 percent
>of the time it would be no problem....but the other 50 percent are
>what bite you in the ass, so from a business standpoint, you are better
>off to machine all rotors on a routine brake job.

Sure, because the customer is paying the bill, so why shouldn't you
turn the rotors. But from a DIY'rs point of view, it may not be
necessary.

> If you are a DIY'er,
>do whatever you want.

We do what is expedient. We don't have shops with all the expensive
equipment. We do what we can with what we have. You, otoh, have all
the automotive tools available to you, and plenty of people around to
consult. The DIY'r almost _never_ works under these conditions.

> I've slapped pads only on my own cars at
>times, works fine, but of course I don't bitch at myself if it isn't
>perfect.

At the minimum, I always remove the calipers and rotors and clean
things up, if you want to call that pad slapping.

>> Except, the manufacturers say "Don't do that." And not only that, if
>> you do cut them, do it on the vehicle, not on a separate lathe.
>
>GM doesn't say that....they say that if this, that, or the other is all
>good, you don't need to machine rotors. And that's great, but most
>vehicles that come in for a brake job have issues with the rotors, whether
>it's thickness variation, runout, or surfaces that are rusted, flaking,
>grooved
>excessively...etc.

I can see those cars in every parking lot, and tell just by looking at
the outside of the rotors through the wheels, if there's a brake
problem. Thing of it is, people are still driving around with these
brakes that have *issues* and the vehicles still stop when they're
supposed to.

> They also don't say that you have to cut them on
>the vehicle...hell...they just made the on vehicle lathe a "required tool"
>about
>a month ago, and that's because of the captured rotors on the new mid
>size trucks. You don't know what you are talking about.

In so far as captured rotors on new mid size trucks is concerned, I've
never worked on them so in that repect, on that particular item, I
have no experience. That is not to say I am devoid of any and all
experience in brake work.

I imagine there are all kinds of things I've worked on that you
haven't a clue about. That's the way it goes.

>> The only thing I've got out of this thread to date that I can believe
>> is that proper HUB preparation is necessary. You need a really
>> _clean_ hub so that jacking doesn't affect the runout. And if you cut
>> them "on the vehicle" I am almost certain that this STEP has been
>> omitted. And it seems to me that is the more important of the steps.
>
>See....you don't know what you are talking about. Would you like
>me to round up the GM instructions for preparation of the rotor
>and hub "even" when using the on vehicle lathe? Ah...why bother,
>you wouldn't "get it" anyway.

Nobody *gets it* but you, bob, and billy the goat. The rest of us are
dumb****s lost in the wilderness, or so you would like us to think.

A bunch of people chimed in a while back and jumped on me for saying
that the downstream HO2S is there to monitor catalytic converter
performance. In fact I was correct, and proved this recently, but
that didn't prevent the ignoramuses from trying to tell me I was
wrong. I was not wrong. In fact I was correct. 100% correct.

Which goes to prove you can call me anything you like, but I was right
about that, and the more you and others try to deny it the more you
and others look like fools.

>> And I'm not going to be convinced that cutting the rotors is necessary
>> -every- time the pads are changed, although I am convinced that the
>> rotor needs to be removed, and the _hub_ has to be cleaned down to
>> bare metal. I'm also of the mind that any glazing of the rotor should
>> be removed, but I do that with emery cloth.
>
>You do whatever makes you happy. As long as it keeps you from
>beaking off in the forums...I'm ok with it.
>
>Ian

I'm confident I can service the brakes on _my_ vehicle. I don't have
to look at anybody else's brakes, just the ones on the car I drive,
and that's the bottom line. My brakes are simple to service.
Standard ABS Taurus/Sable brakes, not an issue as you all try to blow
things way out of proportion.

I have OEM rotors, no pulsing in the brakes, no issues with the
brakes, no complaints about them, and the ABS system works like
greased lightening when I hit a slick spot in the road ( wintertime up
here at the moment ).

Other people will have to make a decision about the DIY aspect. It's
there cars, their money, their time.

I do know one thing. The last time I took my brakes in for servicing,
they butchered my rotors, and there is No Way in Hell they measured
anything for runout. Auto Clinic on Torrence Avenue in Lansing
Illinois if you care to call them for the records. I don't own that
car anymore, after they got through with their *improvements* it was
so trashed I sold it. See if they ever get my business again.

Lg

On 15 Jan 2005 14:14:10 GMT, "TeGGer®" > wrote:

>> My experience is that the turned rotors go bad within a few months and
>> you end up needing new ones anyway.
>
>Turning the rotors reduces heat-sink mass. Increased probability of
>overheating them to the point of warpage.

We do need to differentiate though, between the more massive rotors on
a truck (SUV) and those on a light car.