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Questions about choosing the right clutch kit from Marlin Crawler



 
 
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  #21  
Old November 16th 17, 02:18 AM posted to rec.autos.tech,alt.home.repair
Clare Snyder
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 72
Default Questions about choosing the right clutch kit from Marlin Crawler

On Tue, 14 Nov 2017 20:48:01 +0000 (UTC), harry newton
> wrote:

>He who is Clare Snyder said on Tue, 14 Nov 2017 09:23:25 -0500:
>
>
>> Torque to yeild bolts are "stretched" when tightened and must be
>> replaced. I don't think I've ever replaced clutch bolts - would on a
>> drag car, but they use automatics almost exclusively today

>
>I'm gonna get the bolts but I don't think I need them, as you explained.
>I'll get them because (a) they're only 7 bucks, and (b) Toyota says to use
>new bolts every time.
>
>But I agree that I can re-use the old bolts too, so I'll forget about this
>for now as *choosing my first clutch kit* is the more important goal.
>
>> 1200 lb clutch will build your left thigh muscle in traffic and will
>> grip a little tighter. Basically a truck or race modification> (Once
>> I'm movong I generally don't use the clutch)

>
>I've been researching this on the side and I'm still confused, but one
>thing I learned is that the torque from an engine is only about 300 foot
>pounds or less (278 foot pounds according to this quick search):
><https://www.google.com/search?&q=toyota+4runner+torque+specs>
>
>So what I don't get at all, is if an engine only generates 300 foot pounds
>of torque, why would we even need a 900 foot pound pressure plate, given
>that the ratio of the flywheel diameter to clutch plate diameter is fixed
>at what? Almost 1 to 1? Or is it 2:1 or 3:1?
>
>How does this math work that a 1200 foot pound clutch does ANYTHING useful?



PUT AN OEM CLUTCH IN THE DAMNED THING AND BE DONE WITH IT!!!
Ads
  #22  
Old November 16th 17, 02:29 AM posted to rec.autos.tech,alt.home.repair
Xeno
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 363
Default Questions about choosing the right clutch kit from Marlin Crawler

On 16/11/2017 12:18 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Nov 2017 20:48:01 +0000 (UTC), harry newton
> > wrote:
>
>> He who is Clare Snyder said on Tue, 14 Nov 2017 09:23:25 -0500:
>>
>>
>>> Torque to yeild bolts are "stretched" when tightened and must be
>>> replaced. I don't think I've ever replaced clutch bolts - would on a
>>> drag car, but they use automatics almost exclusively today

>>
>> I'm gonna get the bolts but I don't think I need them, as you explained.
>> I'll get them because (a) they're only 7 bucks, and (b) Toyota says to use
>> new bolts every time.
>>
>> But I agree that I can re-use the old bolts too, so I'll forget about this
>> for now as *choosing my first clutch kit* is the more important goal.
>>
>>> 1200 lb clutch will build your left thigh muscle in traffic and will
>>> grip a little tighter. Basically a truck or race modification> (Once
>>> I'm movong I generally don't use the clutch)

>>
>> I've been researching this on the side and I'm still confused, but one
>> thing I learned is that the torque from an engine is only about 300 foot
>> pounds or less (278 foot pounds according to this quick search):
>> <https://www.google.com/search?&q=toyota+4runner+torque+specs>
>>
>> So what I don't get at all, is if an engine only generates 300 foot pounds
>> of torque, why would we even need a 900 foot pound pressure plate, given
>> that the ratio of the flywheel diameter to clutch plate diameter is fixed
>> at what? Almost 1 to 1? Or is it 2:1 or 3:1?
>>
>> How does this math work that a 1200 foot pound clutch does ANYTHING useful?

>
>
> PUT AN OEM CLUTCH IN THE DAMNED THING AND BE DONE WITH IT!!!
>

Seems like RS Wood in another guise.

--

Xeno
  #23  
Old November 16th 17, 03:31 AM posted to rec.autos.tech,alt.home.repair
Phil Kangas[_2_]
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Posts: 7
Default Questions about choosing the right clutch kit from Marlin Crawler


"Scott Dorsey"

> You want to race, you buy racing products.

You want to tool around on
the streets, don't buy racing products.
--scott

Just remembered this saying from years ago..:

Jack be nimble, Jack be quick!
Beat that hydro with your stick!
On your car our bets ride!
Lose this race and its your hide!


  #24  
Old November 16th 17, 07:14 AM posted to rec.autos.tech,alt.home.repair
harry newton
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Posts: 21
Default Questions about choosing the right clutch kit from Marlin Crawler

He who is Clare Snyder said on Wed, 15 Nov 2017 20:18:57 -0500:

> PUT AN OEM CLUTCH IN THE DAMNED THING AND BE DONE WITH IT!!!


Makes sense. I didn't know what I know now when I asked.

At this point, the right clutch kit is an Aisin 900 foot pound kit.

The 5-piece Aisin OEM kit is here for $170 (TDT-C-95-04-2.7)
<http://www.lowrangeoffroad.com/aisin-seco-clutch-kits.html>

The best prices I can find at a Toyota dealer online is $225 sans the
alignment tool:
Required:
312503540084 - DISC $73.03
312103520084 - PRESSURE PLATE $93.21
903631200277 - PILOT BEARING $6.34
3123035091 - RELEASE BEARING $51.72

Optional:
1340575040 - FLYWHEEL $356.37
3120420071 - RELEASE FORK $26.72
1345320010 - RING GEAR $111.04
  #25  
Old November 16th 17, 07:14 AM posted to rec.autos.tech,alt.home.repair
harry newton
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21
Default Questions about choosing the right clutch kit from Marlin Crawler

He who is Clare Snyder said on Wed, 15 Nov 2017 20:17:11 -0500:

> The big question is why are you sourcing general purpose street
> machine parts from a performance rock crawler company????? The parts
> they sel lare aimed at the extreme offroad market - NOT general
> purpose street machines. Buy an OEM part from your local dealer or
> parts jobber like Napa or whoever. You do not need or want competition
> parts - they are not necessarily better parts for your application,
> and most likely worse.


This is good advice.

I want the BEST parts, which is why I was LOOKING at Marlin Crawler, but I
didn't know, until now, that they're just for specialty stuff.

You'll notice I use "good" quality stuff so that's all I had wanted.

I agree with you. Marlin Crawler is the wrong place to go.
Now the question is what's a good clutch.

The OEM is Aisin 900 pounds. Googling, I find plenty of substitutes.
I can pick - but I don't know how to pick a clutch kit?

What do I look for?
a. Steel springs?
b. Friction material?
c. What?
  #26  
Old November 16th 17, 07:14 AM posted to rec.autos.tech,alt.home.repair
harry newton
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Posts: 21
Default Questions about choosing the right clutch kit from Marlin Crawler

He who is Scott Dorsey said on 15 Nov 2017 17:40:20 -0500:

>>If that's all it means, in practical terms, then why do they sell it?

>
> Because a lot of people want to go fast, and half a second faster off the
> line can mean the difference between first place and no prize at all.


OK. That makes sense in racing, where a split second clutch engagement is
meaningful. So if it's speed of engagement, I'm ok with that as a benefit.

But it's not needed on the road - so why couldn't Marlin Crawler just say
so when I asked?

>>Even high-octane fuel has a benefit for the cars that need it.

>
> It has a huge benefit because running 100LL lets you build engines with
> way higher compression ratios than running street gasoline will. The
> difference in horsepower is substantial.


No no no. What I meant is that for an engine that is already designed to
use 87AKI (or whatever the anti-knock index is in your country), using
92AKI isn't going to do anything if the engine is running to spec.

It's just a waste of money.
Just like this 1200 pound pressure plate seems to be.

>
>>What's the expected benefit of a 1200 pound clutch over a 900 pound one?

>
> As I said in a previous post, being faster off the line.


Thanks. What I like about that answer is that it follows logic.
I love logic.

>>That's all that Marlin Crawler sells, for example.

>
> You want to race, you buy racing products. You want to tool around on
> the streets, don't buy racing products.


I don't know Marlin Crawler stuff at all, so I don't automatically
associate them with racing. I just associate them with Toyota aftermarket.
  #27  
Old November 16th 17, 07:17 AM posted to rec.autos.tech,alt.home.repair
harry newton
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Posts: 21
Default Questions about choosing the right clutch kit from Marlin Crawler

He who is harry newton said on Thu, 16 Nov 2017 06:14:50 +0000 (UTC):

> The OEM is Aisin 900 pounds. Googling, I find plenty of substitutes.
> I can pick - but I don't know how to pick a clutch kit?


I think I'll go for this <$200 Aisin kit, which coupled with the <$200 I
paid for the transmission jack and additional 1/2-inch socket extender
bars, which makes the entire transmission job cost only about $400 which
isn't bad.
<http://www.lowrangeoffroad.com/aisin-seco-clutch-kits.html>

There may be other parts involved, but I won't know until I take it apart
and post back with details.
  #28  
Old November 16th 17, 07:20 AM posted to rec.autos.tech,alt.home.repair
harry newton
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Posts: 21
Default Questions about choosing the right clutch kit from Marlin Crawler

He who is harry newton said on Tue, 14 Nov 2017 00:36:19 +0000 (UTC):

> 1. What's the practical difference between a 900 & 1200 foot pound pressure
> plate? (yes, I know, 300 foot pounds).
> 2. Do you bother replacing non torque to yield pressure plate bolts?
> 3. Do you change the teeth spacing in your flywheel?


SOLVED.

Q: What's the difference between 1200# & 900# pressure plate?
A: Nothing practical. 1200 engages faster for racing purposes.

Q: Do you bother replacing pressure plate bolts?
A: Nope. Just loc-tite red.

Q: What about the flywheel?
A: Just have it machined if it's scored. Otherwise keep it.

Q: What's a good kit to get for an on-road Toyota?
A: Not the $300 Aisin Marlin Crawler kit.
A: Maybe the $170 Aisin lowrangeoffroad kit is better?
A: OEM costs about twice that at the best dealer (and no alignment tool).
  #29  
Old November 16th 17, 07:39 PM posted to rec.autos.tech,alt.home.repair
Tekkie®
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Posts: 84
Default Questions about choosing the right clutch kit from Marlin Crawler

Clare Snyder posted for all of us...


>
> On 15 Nov 2017 17:40:20 -0500, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>
> >harry newton > wrote:
> >>He who is Terry Coombs said on Wed, 15 Nov 2017 11:18:18 -0600:
> >>
> >>> +AKA- It means that your clutch will be slightly harder to push and hold .
> >>
> >>If that's all it means, in practical terms, then why do they sell it?

> >
> >Because a lot of people want to go fast, and half a second faster off the
> >line can mean the difference between first place and no prize at all.
> >
> >>Is it just marketing (like high-octane fuel)?
> >>
> >>Even high-octane fuel has a benefit for the cars that need it.

> >
> >It has a huge benefit because running 100LL lets you build engines with
> >way higher compression ratios than running street gasoline will. The
> >difference in horsepower is substantial.
> >
> >>What's the expected benefit of a 1200 pound clutch over a 900 pound one?

> >
> >As I said in a previous post, being faster off the line.
> >
> >>That's all that Marlin Crawler sells, for example.

> >
> >You want to race, you buy racing products. You want to tool around on
> >the streets, don't buy racing products.
> >--scott

> The big question is why are you sourcing general purpose street
> machine parts from a performance rock crawler company????? The parts
> they sel lare aimed at the extreme offroad market - NOT general
> purpose street machines. Buy an OEM part from your local dealer or
> parts jobber like Napa or whoever. You do not need or want competition
> parts - they are not necessarily better parts for your application,
> and most likely worse.


+1 and gaining

--
Tekkie
  #30  
Old November 16th 17, 07:41 PM posted to rec.autos.tech,alt.home.repair
Tekkie®
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 84
Default Questions about choosing the right clutch kit from Marlin Crawler

Clare Snyder posted for all of us...


>
> On Tue, 14 Nov 2017 20:48:01 +0000 (UTC), harry newton
> > wrote:
>
> >He who is Clare Snyder said on Tue, 14 Nov 2017 09:23:25 -0500:
> >
> >
> >> Torque to yeild bolts are "stretched" when tightened and must be
> >> replaced. I don't think I've ever replaced clutch bolts - would on a
> >> drag car, but they use automatics almost exclusively today

> >
> >I'm gonna get the bolts but I don't think I need them, as you explained.
> >I'll get them because (a) they're only 7 bucks, and (b) Toyota says to use
> >new bolts every time.
> >
> >But I agree that I can re-use the old bolts too, so I'll forget about this
> >for now as *choosing my first clutch kit* is the more important goal.
> >
> >> 1200 lb clutch will build your left thigh muscle in traffic and will
> >> grip a little tighter. Basically a truck or race modification> (Once
> >> I'm movong I generally don't use the clutch)

> >
> >I've been researching this on the side and I'm still confused, but one
> >thing I learned is that the torque from an engine is only about 300 foot
> >pounds or less (278 foot pounds according to this quick search):
> ><https://www.google.com/search?&q=toyota+4runner+torque+specs>
> >
> >So what I don't get at all, is if an engine only generates 300 foot pounds
> >of torque, why would we even need a 900 foot pound pressure plate, given
> >that the ratio of the flywheel diameter to clutch plate diameter is fixed
> >at what? Almost 1 to 1? Or is it 2:1 or 3:1?
> >
> >How does this math work that a 1200 foot pound clutch does ANYTHING useful?

>
>
> PUT AN OEM CLUTCH IN THE DAMNED THING AND BE DONE WITH IT!!!


Still gaining

--
Tekkie
 




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