cyl head removal and oil pan removal.

I am considering doing a removal and rebuild of the top end. But I was
also considering a re-ring . I would do so if I could easily remove and
replace the oil pan and other stuff to push out the pistons for a
cleaning and a fresh set of rings. Can this be done easily with the
engine block remaining in the car? In other words, can the oil pan be
removed and replaced easily?

"mikestp" > wrote in message
newskKmh.110333$rv4.74336@edtnps90...
>I am considering doing a removal and rebuild of the top end. But I was
>also considering a re-ring . I would do so if I could easily remove and
>replace the oil pan and other stuff to push out the pistons for a cleaning
>and a fresh set of rings. Can this be done easily with the engine block
>remaining in the car? In other words, can the oil pan be removed and
>replaced easily?

It is possible to remove the pan while the engine is in place. It is not
easy to do so.
The subframe holding the engine and suspension must be lowered and the
engine supported by other means.
Why are you considering a rebuild of the cylinder head?

Chas Hurst wrote:
> "mikestp" > wrote in message
> newskKmh.110333$rv4.74336@edtnps90...
>> I am considering doing a removal and rebuild of the top end. But I was
>> also considering a re-ring . I would do so if I could easily remove and
>> replace the oil pan and other stuff to push out the pistons for a cleaning
>> and a fresh set of rings. Can this be done easily with the engine block
>> remaining in the car? In other words, can the oil pan be removed and
>> replaced easily?
>
> It is possible to remove the pan while the engine is in place. It is not
> easy to do so.
> The subframe holding the engine and suspension must be lowered and the
> engine supported by other means.
> Why are you considering a rebuild of the cylinder head?
>
>
The car involved smokes a puff of oil at startup. This is usually
indicative of the valve seals failing, and if the mileage is high, it is
also probable that some valve stem wear and valve guide wear has
happened. Most >100,000 mile cylinder heads need some work. Most well
built Japanese cars wear very little in the cylinder. The blocks
usually do not show much wear. However the Miata has a relatively thin
oil spreader ring and it often gets clogged up. If the oil pan is
easily removed (sounds as if it is not) then I would recommend replacing
the rings. If the oil pan is a PITA to re-re, then I would probably
pass on the ring job.

In article <UN3nh.119783$hn.45163@edtnps82>,
mikestp > wrote:

> The car involved smokes a puff of oil at startup. This is usually
> indicative of the valve seals failing

Try replacing the PCV valve first. You might be pleasantly surprised.

Lanny Chambers wrote:
> In article <UN3nh.119783$hn.45163@edtnps82>,
> mikestp > wrote:
>
>> The car involved smokes a puff of oil at startup. This is usually
>> indicative of the valve seals failing
>
> Try replacing the PCV valve first. You might be pleasantly surprised.
Been there, Done that. In this case the puff is upon cold start, and
quickly disspears in a few seconds. This indicates worn seals and
probably worn valve stems/guides. I try and replace the guides with
undersized guides and hone the stems to a smaller diameter. But in
severe cases the valves will need replacing as well. If so I hone the
inside guide diameter to match the valve stem size plus clearance.

Besides this is only the first of my miatas. I plan to purchase and
refurbish many. I think it might be a good idea to rebuild all top
ends. So as to give the new owner a "fresh start".

While I am here, Is the ransmission (Standard manual shift) hard to
remove and replace? I also think a fresh clutch might be a good idea....

Mike..

On Thu, 04 Jan 2007 21:56:58 GMT, mikestp > wrote:

>Lanny Chambers wrote:
>> In article <UN3nh.119783$hn.45163@edtnps82>,
>> mikestp > wrote:
>>
>>> The car involved smokes a puff of oil at startup. This is usually
>>> indicative of the valve seals failing
>>
>> Try replacing the PCV valve first. You might be pleasantly surprised.
>Been there, Done that. In this case the puff is upon cold start, and
>quickly disspears in a few seconds. This indicates worn seals and
>probably worn valve stems/guides. I try and replace the guides with
>undersized guides and hone the stems to a smaller diameter. But in
>severe cases the valves will need replacing as well. If so I hone the
>inside guide diameter to match the valve stem size plus clearance.
>
>Besides this is only the first of my miatas. I plan to purchase and
>refurbish many. I think it might be a good idea to rebuild all top
>ends. So as to give the new owner a "fresh start".
>
>While I am here, Is the ransmission (Standard manual shift) hard to
>remove and replace? I also think a fresh clutch might be a good idea....
>
>Mike..

If you're going to remove the gearbox and the head for work then it
only a little more work to remove the engine and gearbox as a single
unit - It can even be easier as the car doesn't have to be high enough
to drop the gearbox. Then you can rebuild it with ease.

Martin (cogitating this very job when it warms up a bit).

Martin T wrote:
> On Thu, 04 Jan 2007 21:56:58 GMT, mikestp > wrote:
>
>> Lanny Chambers wrote:
>>> In article <UN3nh.119783$hn.45163@edtnps82>,
>>> mikestp > wrote:
>>>
>>>> The car involved smokes a puff of oil at startup. This is usually
>>>> indicative of the valve seals failing
>>> Try replacing the PCV valve first. You might be pleasantly surprised.
>> Been there, Done that. In this case the puff is upon cold start, and
>> quickly disspears in a few seconds. This indicates worn seals and
>> probably worn valve stems/guides. I try and replace the guides with
>> undersized guides and hone the stems to a smaller diameter. But in
>> severe cases the valves will need replacing as well. If so I hone the
>> inside guide diameter to match the valve stem size plus clearance.
>>
>> Besides this is only the first of my miatas. I plan to purchase and
>> refurbish many. I think it might be a good idea to rebuild all top
>> ends. So as to give the new owner a "fresh start".
>>
>> While I am here, Is the ransmission (Standard manual shift) hard to
>> remove and replace? I also think a fresh clutch might be a good idea....
>>
>> Mike..
>
> If you're going to remove the gearbox and the head for work then it
> only a little more work to remove the engine and gearbox as a single
> unit - It can even be easier as the car doesn't have to be high enough
> to drop the gearbox. Then you can rebuild it with ease.
>
> Martin (cogitating this very job when it warms up a bit).
I know... I thought of this just after i hit the "send" button....
Maybe i should just get really good at re-re the entire package, place
it on a engine stand and hone the cyls, re-ring, and get the heads done.
Refacing the flywheel adding a new pressure plate and a clutch... The
real work here would be to get all the parts required at the best
possible prices. Even a gasket kit for the miata is expensive. There
must be wholesalers of this stuff so a person could buy at a much better
price than i have seen on ebay.... Valves and guides and seals I can
get from reasonable cheap sources, as well as rings and pistons. Gasket
sets are a huge cost.... I doubt i will need to rebore much, and the
camshafts are usually good enough to not need regrinding. The hyd
lifters can be rebuilt with a simple cleaning, and oil pumps usually
only need a cleaning. Bottom end and rod bearings are usually ok to
reuse, but they are not expensive either. Obviously they would need
replacing if the crankshaft needed regrinding.

And yes... I used to run/own a engine rebuilding shop in a previous
lifetime.....

"mikestp" > wrote in message
news:KKenh.121207$hn.117018@edtnps82...
> Lanny Chambers wrote:
>> In article <UN3nh.119783$hn.45163@edtnps82>,
>> mikestp > wrote:
>>
>>> The car involved smokes a puff of oil at startup. This is usually
>>> indicative of the valve seals failing
>>
>> Try replacing the PCV valve first. You might be pleasantly surprised.
> Been there, Done that. In this case the puff is upon cold start, and
> quickly disspears in a few seconds. This indicates worn seals and
> probably worn valve stems/guides. I try and replace the guides with
> undersized guides and hone the stems to a smaller diameter. But in severe
> cases the valves will need replacing as well. If so I hone the inside
> guide diameter to match the valve stem size plus clearance.
>
> Besides this is only the first of my miatas. I plan to purchase and
> refurbish many. I think it might be a good idea to rebuild all top ends.
> So as to give the new owner a "fresh start".
>
> While I am here, Is the ransmission (Standard manual shift) hard to
> remove and replace? I also think a fresh clutch might be a good idea....
>
> Mike..

It's been my experience that Japanese engines have very long lived valve
guides and valve stems. It's not difficult to change the stem seals with out
removing the head.
If you do remove the engine the clutch will be attached to it, so no need to
remove the trans.
The factory recommends removing the trans with the engine, but removing the
engine only is much less work.

In article <KKenh.121207$hn.117018@edtnps82>,
mikestp > wrote:

> In this case the puff is upon cold start, and
> quickly disspears in a few seconds. This indicates worn seals and
> probably worn valve stems/guides.

True. If that's all it does, you might want to fix it in...oh...say,
another 30,000 miles, or maybe at the next timing belt job. My '85
Accord started doing that last year, and there's no way I'm rebuilding
the head on a $500 car that otherwise runs fine.

If it's using enough oil to need a quart between changes, that's another
story. Or if you simply enjoy engine work as a hobby, because you'll
never get your money back out of unnecessary repairs.

What year Miata are you doing all this engine work on ?? Soon you will
have enough money in it you will not be able to get your money back to
just sell it! If you are going to keep the car for yourself, than it's
not so bad, but an older Miata just will not be worth much to sell to
someone else. I know of a '90 with newer paint, a '93 engine, a new
top, KYB shocks (almost new) lowered springs and top of the line
maintance on the rest od the car. $3,000.00. I don't know what you
paid for the car you have, but I hope someone gave it to you. :-)

Bruce Bing '03 LS