preheater troubles

I may have already mentioned this, but if you use a stock muffler beware
that the Venturi should be on the right side of the muffler. It is
inside and you can see it if you take off the fweem pipes and peek with
a flashlight. The Venturi goes over the heating pipe and 'pulls' hot air
through the carb heater.

I got a Mexican muffler where the Venturi was on the WRONG SIDE.

An electrical heater puts a load on the alternator/generator, sucks
horsepower. I don't even like to run with the lights on.

On 12/08/2011 03:03 AM, P.J.Berg wrote:
> On Thu, 08 Dec 2011 09:23:30 +0100, David Gravereaux
> > wrote:
>
>> On 12/07/2011 11:07 PM, P.J.Berg wrote:
>>> On Wed, 07 Dec 2011 18:28:12 +0100, David Gravereaux
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 12/07/2011 07:30 AM, P.J.Berg wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 07 Dec 2011 10:35:39 +0100, tricky
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Doesn't Carb icing occur whilst you are driving ... not before you
>>>>>> start the engine ! ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yup.
>>>>> When it happens and the car stalls, you can sit and wait it out until
>>>>> the heat soak has thawed the carb and manifold.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Exactly my issue. It starts fine from dead cold, but stalls after 15
>>>> seconds. runs like poo for the next five minutes. Temp of the carb
>>>> base drops about 8 degrees C from ambient to just a few above freezing.
>>>> preheat, now, isn't doing much work on the manifold to keep it warm
>>>> with the newer exhaust. Later when the oil temp comes up, it runs
>>>> fine.
>>>>
>>>> must make more heat... electrically.
>>>>
>>>
>>> What you are describing is not carb icing, it would never happen after
>>> 15sec, only when you actually drive the car with partly open
>>> throttle/high vacuum.
>>> The preheater tubes even when connected to a proper exhaust would not
>>> even start to get warm after 15sec.
>>>
>>> I have not this whole thread saved and cant remember your exact carb.
>>>
>>> It sounds like a typical auto choke issue.
>>> Have you checked setting/freedom of movement and function of the heater
>>> element working on the bi-metal spring?
>>> Also, have you checked the base setting of the butterfly itself?
>>> How about intake leaks? Gaskets, bent flanges etc.
>>
>>
>> This is the kicker, the choke is working fine. Carb is a Solex
>> (actually made by/for Kafer) 34 PICT/3 on a 1600cc dual port. Manifold
>> isn't stock, but the same type just done in aluminum:
>>
>> http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=526
>>
>> I swapped the exhaust a few weeks ago. The car didn't have the problem
>> before the exhaust swap, but temperatures here did just drop, too. The
>> engine starts wonderfully from dead cold only to just stall 15-20
>> seconds later and from there on it runs like poo until the oil temp
>> comes up.
>>
>> By 'running like poo', I'll define that as if it's running on three
>> cylinders with horrendous bog. plugs are fresh. It doesn't appear to
>> be ignition as I've pulled plug wires while it's doing this and each I
>> pull makes the engine run slower and even more out-of-balance. So it's
>> not ignition.
>>
>> I'm convinced I have an intense wall wetting problem I can cure with a
>> warmer intake manifold.
>>
>> Again, it runs fine when warm. I only say 'fine' cause I'm sick of the
>> lame aircooled.net SVDA distro I've had for the past 5 years and I'm
>> dropping in a Mallory Unilite series 47 from another motor I'm not using
>> so I can finally tune it to a proper curve.
>>
>> I will check (again) for a tight valve in the morning, but it holds a
>> steady valve adjustment.
>>
>
> Have you got a stock Solex carb to try out?


I've got two others, but this is far the best of the lot. The
California smogged PICT/4 I only use for parts! The Kafer was a good
carb before the EMPI 3417 exhaust. The third one is just a turd.


> It could very well be that the fuel metering on the replacement carb is
> out of whack, I'm thinking idle and transition circuit.


I tried a 55 idle jet, but wasn't happy with it. I'll try some others
today.


> Also make sure the base setting of the butterfly is spot on(choke 100%
> off, slack throttle cable, the screw on top of the long lever facing the
> rear -> off its stop on the carb body, screw it in until it barely
> touches the stop, then 1/4 turn inwards).
>
> Make sure to check the two rubber boots/grommets(I forget the name) on
> the intake very carefully, have been burned there myself once.


I'll check that, thanks.


> Ps.
> Unless the Mallory comes with a vacuum sensor i would stick to the svda
> dizzy.


Yeah, has vac, but I need to make a harness for it today and find a
replacement rotor before dropping it in.


> Pps.
> A tight valve would only get worse as the engine heats up.


By tight I mean the adjustment. Slack loosens as it warms. Too tight
will disturb starting idle. Too loose will make it tick when warm.

Though, she idles great at first.

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On Thu, 08 Dec 2011 19:30:06 +0100, John J Stafford
> wrote:

>
> I may have already mentioned this, but if you use a stock muffler beware
> that the Venturi should be on the right side of the muffler. It is
> inside and you can see it if you take off the fweem pipes and peek with
> a flashlight. The Venturi goes over the heating pipe and 'pulls' hot air
> through the carb heater.
>
> I got a Mexican muffler where the Venturi was on the WRONG SIDE.
>
> An electrical heater puts a load on the alternator/generator, sucks
> horsepower. I don't even like to run with the lights on.

The Mexicans did that for a clearance purpose, check the link below and
you will see the late Mr.Hoover mentioning it.
It does not matter which of the two outlets the heat riser pipe ends in,
it creates vacuum all the same.Unless I misunderstood what you wrote
completely..
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/vie...=asc&st art=0

J.

--
P.J.Berg

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On 12/08/2011 04:56 AM, P.J.Berg wrote:
...
> Here is a page demonstrating modifying a header for stock heat riser
> hook up.
> http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/vie...=asc&st art=0
>
>
> I was actually looking for a different pic. I have seen somewhere, this
> however works the same way.
> If you look at some of the posts in that thread you will see the late
> Mr.Hoover giving his approval, that should count for something. )
>
> I cant remember whether your exhaust had a header with collector behind
> the silencer or not.


Oh, that thread speaks volumes to me Why use electricity to make
heat when all the heat I need *should* be coming up through the preheat
tubes. Yes, this is exactly what I've noticed. My manifold is a whole
lot colder now.

Last week when I drilled-out the heat risers cause EMPI ships them
sealed for the dual carb folks, haha I didn't mention this before cause
it solved nothing, I slipped on the right side and poke a hole.

The manifold heat was wonderful as there was a true flow through from
right side to left side. The loud exhaust was terrible, but welded it
shut to now have STILL a barely warm manifold.

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On 12/08/2011 10:09 AM, David Gravereaux wrote:
> On 12/08/2011 02:30 AM, John J Stafford wrote:
>> In article >,
>> David Gravereaux > wrote:
>>
>>> Again, it runs fine when warm. I only say 'fine' cause I'm sick of the
>>> lame aircooled.net SVDA distro I've had for the past 5 years and I'm
>>> dropping in a Mallory Unilite series 47 from another motor I'm not using
>>> so I can finally tune it to a proper curve.
>>
>> Consider dual Kadrons. On each of my AVWS I run short-intake duals (One
>> with two dual Webers, the other with dual Kadrons. No icing. Ever.
>
> Agreed! I'm thinking the redline K1411 kit with the Weber ICT carbs
> (but with manual choke)


Options:

1) Make and weld a proper exit tube to go from the collector in the
exhaust to the right side heat riser so I get best flow (and heating)
possible.

2) A pair of Weber ICH carbs and the CB performance 3083 kit
http://www.webercarbsdirect.com/34_ICH_p/15290.027.htm
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=539

My 90amp flux core welder really isn't up to the task of cutting holes
in a rather thick collector, nor do I have the raw material to start
from... I'm just a backyard mechanic :/

I wanted to go to duals later on... new tire budget will go to carbs
instead <sigh>

--



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On 12/08/2011 12:13 PM, David Gravereaux wrote:
> 2) A pair of Weber ICH carbs and the CB performance 3083 kit
> http://www.webercarbsdirect.com/34_ICH_p/15290.027.htm
> http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=539
>


Done. Money spent. <sigh> At least I'll have some boxes to wrap for
under the tree.. To: Dave From: Santa

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In article >,
David Gravereaux > wrote:

> > Agreed! I'm thinking the redline K1411 kit with the Weber ICT carbs
> > (but with manual choke)

In my Weber duals there is a disabled enriching circuit for the choke. I
have read where sometimes an activation cylinder moves causing it to
constantly flood. Anywho, those chokes are in there. Maybe you can get
just the activating parts.

In article >,
David Gravereaux > wrote:

> On 12/08/2011 12:13 PM, David Gravereaux wrote:
> > 2) A pair of Weber ICH carbs and the CB performance 3083 kit
> > http://www.webercarbsdirect.com/34_ICH_p/15290.027.htm
> > http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=539
> >
>
>
> Done. Money spent. <sigh> At least I'll have some boxes to wrap for
> under the tree.. To: Dave From: Santa

You will be blown away by the performance. Take care, however. You CAN
over-rev a dual carb ACVW! (For the rest - you with single carbs have a
restrictor - the carb itself.)

In article >,
"P.J.Berg" > wrote:

> The Mexicans did that for a clearance purpose, check the link below and
> you will see the late Mr.Hoover mentioning it.
> It does not matter which of the two outlets the heat riser pipe ends in,
> it creates vacuum all the same.Unless I misunderstood what you wrote
> completely..
> http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/vie...=0&postorder=a
> sc&start=0
>

The venturi pipe is inside the muffler itself. There is only one. It
slips over one end of the heat riser manifold to pull air through. At
least that's how mine was in the '72.

On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 18:12:49 +0100, John J Stafford
> wrote:

> In article >,
> "P.J.Berg" > wrote:
>
>> The Mexicans did that for a clearance purpose, check the link below and
>> you will see the late Mr.Hoover mentioning it.
>> It does not matter which of the two outlets the heat riser pipe ends in,
>> it creates vacuum all the same.Unless I misunderstood what you wrote
>> completely..
>> http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/vie...=0&postorder=a
>> sc&start=0
>>
>
> The venturi pipe is inside the muffler itself. There is only one. It
> slips over one end of the heat riser manifold to pull air through. At
> least that's how mine was in the '72.

Yup.

I know precisely what it looks like and how it works.
The Mexicans just swapped them around so it would suck from the no.4
primary instead of no.2, basically just reversed the flow.

J.

--
P.J.Berg

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