and now: Death Wobble 1989 XJ Style

"DougW" > wrote in message
...
: On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 21:59:03 -0700, "Budd Cochran"
: > wrote:
: > The tool I made is made to straddle the larger lower bushing flange
: and uses
: > a thick hardened washer of a diameter to press on the shell to
: remove the
: > bushing and by reversing the unit it will press the new bushing in.
:
: Sounds like a plan. Watch that washer, you might need to back it up
: with
: A slightly smaller one if it tries to bend on you. The pressure it
: takes to
: get that bushing material out is insane.
:
: I used a small vice and a couple pieces of plywood to push in the new
: bushings.
:
: > Friction between the screw that operates it and the shell top plate
: is
: > reduced with a thrust bearing from a broken floorjack caster wheel
:
: You might need a couple of small pieces to go beteen the sides.
: The arm is a U shape and can compress a bit. Learned that when
: I used a shop press and just about folded the end of an arm.
: But I was pressing the rubber out of the shell, and didn't have the
: correct blocks to line up the press.
:
: > My elder brother likes to buy parts (he a bit eccentric) and then
: have a
: > shop install them. The bushing replacement at a local shop cost
: $400 just
: > for the labor.
:
: That's the reason I did the job myself. The labor price was just
: nuts.
: Took me a whole day just doing the fronts, but left me with beer money
: so that was fine.
:
: Good luck!
:
: --
: DougW

Hmm ... hadn't thought of bracing the "U", but I will now.

I'll get the link for the video of the guy popping them out with a chisel
and thread it to this reply.

He made it look real easy.


--
Budd Cochran

Need proof that we need less government?

They can't run a website that could have

been built with WYSIWYG5!

Budd Cochran wrote:

> Too late! Right now it 18 at my house.
>
> Had to take my younger brother to Colorado Springs for a checkup after a
> triple bypass surgery and CO115 wasn't too bad till about 2 miles south of
> Gate 5 at Ft Carson saw 5 vehicles off the road: two with bling wheels and
> rubber band tires and a Wrangler with some lift and extra wide mudder
> tires (too much flotation, couldn't get a bite in the snow) and a rear
> ender accident between a pickup and a frozen slush covered japmobile ...
> wanna guess which had the front end damaged and the ice knocked off the
> hood.
>
> One odd thing though, I have twin 4 foot top load CB antennas mounted
> above the rear wheels and I had to tie them down to the roof rack.
>
> Ice built up on the front of the whips and made them bang into the rain
> gutter hard above 40 mph.
>
> BTW, being in fulltime 4X4 kept the front axle from doing the Shimmy. I
> guess the center differential kept the suspension loaded.
>

The wife teaches on Carson just inside Gate 2 - they left early to get home.
That glare ice after a flash freeze is a bear! Not quite as bad as freezing
fog but still a white knuckle ride.

I found the same thing with an old Scout. Loading the front end was a real
help there as well but that old ball and knuckle solid axle was always
touchy.

From painful experience, that chisel routine you mention is no fun. I've
done it and there is no way to keep from hitting yourself working with all
that give. You might consider taking a recip saw to the rubber to split it
into chunks before banging away. The last couple of times I got into that
operation I did that to lessen the amount of rubber I had to burn out.

--
Will Honea

Will Honea wrote:
> Budd Cochran wrote:
>
>> Too late! Right now it 18 at my house.
>>
>> Had to take my younger brother to Colorado Springs for a checkup
>> after a triple bypass surgery and CO115 wasn't too bad till about 2
>> miles south of Gate 5 at Ft Carson saw 5 vehicles off the road: two
>> with bling wheels and rubber band tires and a Wrangler with some
>> lift and extra wide mudder tires (too much flotation, couldn't get a
>> bite in the snow) and a rear ender accident between a pickup and a
>> frozen slush covered japmobile ... wanna guess which had the front
>> end damaged and the ice knocked off the hood.
>>
>> One odd thing though, I have twin 4 foot top load CB antennas mounted
>> above the rear wheels and I had to tie them down to the roof rack.
>>
>> Ice built up on the front of the whips and made them bang into the
>> rain gutter hard above 40 mph.
>>
>> BTW, being in fulltime 4X4 kept the front axle from doing the
>> Shimmy. I guess the center differential kept the suspension loaded.
>>
>
> The wife teaches on Carson just inside Gate 2 - they left early to
> get home. That glare ice after a flash freeze is a bear! Not quite as
> bad as freezing fog but still a white knuckle ride.
>
> I found the same thing with an old Scout. Loading the front end was
> a real help there as well but that old ball and knuckle solid axle
> was always touchy.
>
> From painful experience, that chisel routine you mention is no fun.
> I've done it and there is no way to keep from hitting yourself
> working with all that give. You might consider taking a recip saw to
> the rubber to split it into chunks before banging away. The last
> couple of times I got into that operation I did that to lessen the
> amount of rubber I had to burn out.

I remember reading where someone drilled out quite a bit of the rubber.
Probably could make a series of holes then use a coping saw.. but
that would take a long time. It would smoke like a bitch but a
wire wheel could be used to clean it out. I wonder what attacking both
sides with a hole drill would do? (probably seize up and twist knuckles
into the frame.)

"Will Honea" > wrote in message
...
: Budd Cochran wrote:
:
: > Too late! Right now it 18 at my house.
: >
: > Had to take my younger brother to Colorado Springs for a checkup after a
: > triple bypass surgery and CO115 wasn't too bad till about 2 miles south
of
: > Gate 5 at Ft Carson saw 5 vehicles off the road: two with bling wheels
and
: > rubber band tires and a Wrangler with some lift and extra wide mudder
: > tires (too much flotation, couldn't get a bite in the snow) and a rear
: > ender accident between a pickup and a frozen slush covered japmobile ...
: > wanna guess which had the front end damaged and the ice knocked off the
: > hood.
: >
: > One odd thing though, I have twin 4 foot top load CB antennas mounted
: > above the rear wheels and I had to tie them down to the roof rack.
: >
: > Ice built up on the front of the whips and made them bang into the rain
: > gutter hard above 40 mph.
: >
: > BTW, being in fulltime 4X4 kept the front axle from doing the Shimmy. I
: > guess the center differential kept the suspension loaded.
: >
:
: The wife teaches on Carson just inside Gate 2 - they left early to get
home.
: That glare ice after a flash freeze is a bear! Not quite as bad as
freezing
: fog but still a white knuckle ride.
:
: I found the same thing with an old Scout. Loading the front end was a
real
: help there as well but that old ball and knuckle solid axle was always
: touchy.
:
: From painful experience, that chisel routine you mention is no fun. I've
: done it and there is no way to keep from hitting yourself working with all
: that give. You might consider taking a recip saw to the rubber to split
it
: into chunks before banging away. The last couple of times I got into that
: operation I did that to lessen the amount of rubber I had to burn out.
:
: --
: Will Honea
:

No chiseling for me, that's why I made the pressing tool.

;<)

Just set the larger section over the flange end, run the carriage bolt with
washer thru the other end, brace the "U" section as Doug suggested and spin
the nut down.

I can generate a ton or two of pressure against the washer pretty easiy and
a tap on the bolt head can bust the rust "weld".


--
Budd Cochran

Need proof that we need less government?

They can't run a website that could have

been built with WYSIWYG5!

"DougW" > wrote in message
...
: Will Honea wrote:
: > Budd Cochran wrote:
: >
: >> Too late! Right now it 18 at my house.
: >>
: >> Had to take my younger brother to Colorado Springs for a checkup
: >> after a triple bypass surgery and CO115 wasn't too bad till about 2
: >> miles south of Gate 5 at Ft Carson saw 5 vehicles off the road: two
: >> with bling wheels and rubber band tires and a Wrangler with some
: >> lift and extra wide mudder tires (too much flotation, couldn't get a
: >> bite in the snow) and a rear ender accident between a pickup and a
: >> frozen slush covered japmobile ... wanna guess which had the front
: >> end damaged and the ice knocked off the hood.
: >>
: >> One odd thing though, I have twin 4 foot top load CB antennas mounted
: >> above the rear wheels and I had to tie them down to the roof rack.
: >>
: >> Ice built up on the front of the whips and made them bang into the
: >> rain gutter hard above 40 mph.
: >>
: >> BTW, being in fulltime 4X4 kept the front axle from doing the
: >> Shimmy. I guess the center differential kept the suspension loaded.
: >>
: >
: > The wife teaches on Carson just inside Gate 2 - they left early to
: > get home. That glare ice after a flash freeze is a bear! Not quite as
: > bad as freezing fog but still a white knuckle ride.
: >
: > I found the same thing with an old Scout. Loading the front end was
: > a real help there as well but that old ball and knuckle solid axle
: > was always touchy.
: >
: > From painful experience, that chisel routine you mention is no fun.
: > I've done it and there is no way to keep from hitting yourself
: > working with all that give. You might consider taking a recip saw to
: > the rubber to split it into chunks before banging away. The last
: > couple of times I got into that operation I did that to lessen the
: > amount of rubber I had to burn out.
:
: I remember reading where someone drilled out quite a bit of the rubber.
: Probably could make a series of holes then use a coping saw.. but
: that would take a long time. It would smoke like a bitch but a
: wire wheel could be used to clean it out. I wonder what attacking both
: sides with a hole drill would do? (probably seize up and twist knuckles
: into the frame.)

The hole drill trick would only be safe in a drill press with a good vise
and vry low speed.

OTOH, a brace drill might work also with the control arm in a bench vise.

You would also need something like a center drilled dowel to hold the pilot
bit in the center of the bushing bolt hole to insure you would line up to
meet correctly.
--
Budd Cochran

Need proof that we need less government?

They can't run a website that could have

been built with WYSIWYG5!

Budd Cochran wrote:

> The hole drill trick would only be safe in a drill press with a good vise
> and vry low speed.
>
> OTOH, a brace drill might work also with the control arm in a bench vise.
>
> You would also need something like a center drilled dowel to hold the
> pilot bit in the center of the bushing bolt hole to insure you would line
> up to meet correctly.
>

You might be able to get it done with a Forstner bit - it has "ears" to cut
the od of the hole with a chisel blade to clean the interior. Probably
couldn't get exactly the right size bit, tho. Mine are by 32nds up to 2
inches but it would require a really solid vise and a good grip on the
drill.

Anyway you look at it, this job is a royal pain!

--
Will Honea

"Will Honea" > wrote in message
...
: Budd Cochran wrote:
:
: > The hole drill trick would only be safe in a drill press with a good
vise
: > and vry low speed.
: >
: > OTOH, a brace drill might work also with the control arm in a bench
vise.
: >
: > You would also need something like a center drilled dowel to hold the
: > pilot bit in the center of the bushing bolt hole to insure you would
line
: > up to meet correctly.
: >
:
: You might be able to get it done with a Forstner bit - it has "ears" to
cut
: the od of the hole with a chisel blade to clean the interior. Probably
: couldn't get exactly the right size bit, tho. Mine are by 32nds up to 2
: inches but it would require a really solid vise and a good grip on the
: drill.
:
: Anyway you look at it, this job is a royal pain!
:
: --
: Will Honea

Aw, Will, there ya go being a master of understatement again!

VBG!


--
Budd Cochran

Need proof that we need less government?

They can't run a website that could have

been built with WYSIWYG5!

I got the upper control arm bushings installed.

My homemade tool worked until I needed to press the new bushings in so I
fumbled around with my balljoint press till the job was done.

If the oil pan sump had the front panel made 1" farther back or the
designers had moved the axle 1" farther forward I would have had a much
easier time.

Or better: made all the control arms to hold the bushings instead of having
brackets on the top of the axle to hold them.

But I still have the Death Wobble although the primary cause of the axle
rocking was because some lazy "technician" didn't torque the axle end bolts
correctly.

I had to drill them out and use 7/16" grade5 bolts and nylock nuts torqued
to 50 ft/lb (55 with the nylock nuts).

Improvements: ride quality much better, better caster induced return to
center, less tire outside wheel scrub on sharp turns, better brake response.

I pick up the lower bushings and a track bar bushing in the AM and my son is
going to see if we can use a bay at his job to do the work
--
Budd Cochran

Need proof that we need less government?

They can't run a website that could have

been built with WYSIWYG5!

Budd Cochran wrote:

>
> I got the upper control arm bushings installed.
>
> My homemade tool worked until I needed to press the new bushings in so I
> fumbled around with my balljoint press till the job was done.
>
> If the oil pan sump had the front panel made 1" farther back or the
> designers had moved the axle 1" farther forward I would have had a much
> easier time.
>
> Or better: made all the control arms to hold the bushings instead of
> having brackets on the top of the axle to hold them.
>
> But I still have the Death Wobble although the primary cause of the axle
> rocking was because some lazy "technician" didn't torque the axle end
> bolts correctly.
>
> I had to drill them out and use 7/16" grade5 bolts and nylock nuts torqued
> to 50 ft/lb (55 with the nylock nuts).
>
> Improvements: ride quality much better, better caster induced return to
> center, less tire outside wheel scrub on sharp turns, better brake
> response.
>
> I pick up the lower bushings and a track bar bushing in the AM and my son
> is going to see if we can use a bay at his job to do the work

Bud, my daughter brought her Nisson PU over this weekend whining about a
shimmy in her front end. After screwing around with it for a couple of
hours I put a strong light one the tread and spun the wheel slowly. Bingo!
She had a deformation in the tread - just a small flat spot, but it showed
under the strong light. I had her put the spare on (what? me do it for
her??) and test it. Sure enough, the shimmy was gone. For me, just about
every death wobble was fixed by having a shop I trusted re-balance the
tires. Surprisingly, the Sam's Club shop here does the best balance around.
Standard practice there is 4 distributed weights where most places try to
get by slapping on just 2. Makes a real difference. Also, the manager down
there checks the tire temp and asks you to drive a couple of miles if it is
cold.

Just some things for you to chew on...

--
Will Honea

On Tue, 03 Dec 2013 23:02:20 -0700, Will Honea >
wrote:
> Budd Cochran wrote:


> >
> > I got the upper control arm bushings installed.
> >
> > My homemade tool worked until I needed to press the new bushings
in so I
> > fumbled around with my balljoint press till the job was done.
> >
> > If the oil pan sump had the front panel made 1" farther back or
the
> > designers had moved the axle 1" farther forward I would have had
a much
> > easier time.
> >
> > Or better: made all the control arms to hold the bushings instead
of
> > having brackets on the top of the axle to hold them.
> >
> > But I still have the Death Wobble although the primary cause of
the axle
> > rocking was because some lazy "technician" didn't torque the axle
end
> > bolts correctly.
> >
> > I had to drill them out and use 7/16" grade5 bolts and nylock
nuts torqued
> > to 50 ft/lb (55 with the nylock nuts).
> >
> > Improvements: ride quality much better, better caster induced
return to
> > center, less tire outside wheel scrub on sharp turns, better brake
> > response.
> >
> > I pick up the lower bushings and a track bar bushing in the AM
and my son
> > is going to see if we can use a bay at his job to do the work


> Bud, my daughter brought her Nisson PU over this weekend whining
about a
> shimmy in her front end. After screwing around with it for a
couple of
> hours I put a strong light one the tread and spun the wheel slowly.
Bingo!
> She had a deformation in the tread - just a small flat spot, but it
showed
> under the strong light. I had her put the spare on (what? me do it
for
> her??) and test it. Sure enough, the shimmy was gone. For me,
just about
> every death wobble was fixed by having a shop I trusted re-balance
the
> tires. Surprisingly, the Sam's Club shop here does the best
balance around.
> Standard practice there is 4 distributed weights where most places
try to
> get by slapping on just 2. Makes a real difference. Also, the
manager down
> there checks the tire temp and asks you to drive a couple of miles
if it is
> cold.


> Just some things for you to chew on...


I'll second the balance and add checking the shocks.
Last time I changed mine the darn shock fell apart when I took it out!