Honda thermostat fixed + how to test your thermostat...

See my original message below:

So after taking the car into the dealer for a total of seven times (3
of which were to have them flush the radiator because they couldn't
seem to remember to fill the reservoir tank...), I finally got fed up
with the lack of service from my dealer and called Honda Canada.

After explaining the problem, they called the dealer on my behalf.
The dealer ordered a new thermostat, and installed it when it
arrived. My car heats up fine now. Even at -30. The service manager
said it must have been 'selectively sticking'. (Probably just when
the engine was running).

FYI: From what I can tell, there is only one temperature of
thermostat available for the 06+ generation civic at this point, (set
at 170 degrees) I've called jobber shops and most don't even stock the
part because its a new style. (They usually start making parts once
the warranties are up). Canadian tire carries the right thermostat.
If you get a chance to order a hotter thermostat (190 degrees), they
work great- very nice investment for the wintertime. You will however
notice a small drop in fuel economy and performance.

My advice:

If your car reaches normal temperature and then the temperature drops
during long downhills or when your heater is on full- then your
thermostat is shot. My test was the 'two mile hill' test. Once the
engine is at full temperature, drop the car in neutral at the top of a
large hill (keep the load on the engine minimal), turn the heater on
full and watch the temperature gauge. You shouldn't notice the
temperature drop. The thermostat is there to keep your engine at
proper temperature- that's it's only purpose. Once the coolant
temperature starts dropping, the thermostat closes to keep the engine
at proper temp. If your temperature drops, then the thermostat is
stuck open.

The only way to know for sure what is going on is to remove the
thermostat. The factory service manual describes removing the
thermostat, place it in a pot of water with a thermometer, and heat it
up. (suspend the thermostat/thermometer off the bottom of the pot).
The thermostat should be closed initially, and start opening at about
155 or 160, fully open at 170 and visa-versa.

Part of my frustration was because every time I brought the car in,
I'd ask what they did. They refused to pull the thermostat just to
test it- even though it says to do so in the dealers' service manual.
If they aren't doing that- what are they doing?

If your dealer isn't honoring your warranty, call Honda Canada. It
worked for me. Other than that, I've resolved to sell my car. I've
owned honda's all my life and they've been great- but right now I'm
worried that if something serious happens, I'll be left in the cold
(... yeah I know). At least I won't be buying a new car without a
warranty.

Corry

(OLD Message Below)


> Yes,

> I'm having the exact same problem. I've taken my car in four times
> this fall and still haveproblemsreaching temperature. I'm 95% sure
> the problem is thethermostat. Every time I ask them to check thethermostat, and they haven't removed thethermostatonce (which is the
> recommended method in the dealer service manual). My old Acura Integra
> (also an aluminum 1.8L) had the same problem once, I replaced thethermostatand she was fine.

> My problem is with the dealer here in Whitehorse- they keep telling me
> not to run the heater at full, or that 'these little engines don't
> produce as much heat'. It doesn't make sense. If the engine is at
> temperature, thethermostatshould open and close to keep it at
> temperature. I'm paying them to replace thethermostatat my cost,
> and save the parts for me. (If I get an openthermostatback I'll be
> getting unglued). Thethermostatshould be in this week, I'll let you
> know how it goes.

> I'm sure you've noticed your gas consumption increase as well- I'm
> getting about 250km to a tank right now, just slightly better than my
> friends Land Rover. You may have also noticed the temperature drop on
> long downhill roads... I can usually drop the temp from 1/2 to 1/6 on
> a good hill.

> FYI: I've installed some cardboard in front of the bumper, at least
> now it reaches temperature when I'm on the highway... I'll keep you
> posted.

> Corry

Forgot to mention that I drive an 07 Civic. This is its first cold
winter, so I'm only noticing the problem now.

C

wrote:
> See my original message below:
>
> So after taking the car into the dealer for a total of seven times (3
> of which were to have them flush the radiator because they couldn't
> seem to remember to fill the reservoir tank...), I finally got fed up
> with the lack of service from my dealer and called Honda Canada.
>
> After explaining the problem, they called the dealer on my behalf.
> The dealer ordered a new thermostat, and installed it when it
> arrived. My car heats up fine now. Even at -30. The service manager
> said it must have been 'selectively sticking'. (Probably just when
> the engine was running).
>
> FYI: From what I can tell, there is only one temperature of
> thermostat available for the 06+ generation civic at this point, (set
> at 170 degrees) I've called jobber shops and most don't even stock the
> part because its a new style. (They usually start making parts once
> the warranties are up). Canadian tire carries the right thermostat.
> If you get a chance to order a hotter thermostat (190 degrees), they
> work great- very nice investment for the wintertime. You will however
> notice a small drop in fuel economy and performance.
>
> My advice:
>
> If your car reaches normal temperature and then the temperature drops
> during long downhills or when your heater is on full- then your
> thermostat is shot. My test was the 'two mile hill' test. Once the
> engine is at full temperature, drop the car in neutral at the top of a
> large hill (keep the load on the engine minimal), turn the heater on
> full and watch the temperature gauge. You shouldn't notice the
> temperature drop. The thermostat is there to keep your engine at
> proper temperature- that's it's only purpose. Once the coolant
> temperature starts dropping, the thermostat closes to keep the engine
> at proper temp. If your temperature drops, then the thermostat is
> stuck open.
>
> The only way to know for sure what is going on is to remove the
> thermostat. The factory service manual describes removing the
> thermostat, place it in a pot of water with a thermometer, and heat it
> up. (suspend the thermostat/thermometer off the bottom of the pot).
> The thermostat should be closed initially, and start opening at about
> 155 or 160, fully open at 170 and visa-versa.
>
> Part of my frustration was because every time I brought the car in,
> I'd ask what they did. They refused to pull the thermostat just to
> test it- even though it says to do so in the dealers' service manual.
> If they aren't doing that- what are they doing?

saving themselves money and trying to run the clock down on you. they
don't get paid as much for warranty repair as they do for stuff out of
warranty.


>
> If your dealer isn't honoring your warranty, call Honda Canada. It
> worked for me.

indeed.


> Other than that, I've resolved to sell my car. I've
> owned honda's all my life and they've been great- but right now I'm
> worried that if something serious happens, I'll be left in the cold
> (... yeah I know). At least I won't be buying a new car without a
> warranty.

not sure i follow the logic of that. you've just cracked the code for
getting stuff done, but now you're walking away.



>
> Corry
>
> (OLD Message Below)
>
>
>> Yes,
>
>> I'm having the exact same problem. I've taken my car in four times
>> this fall and still haveproblemsreaching temperature. I'm 95% sure
>> the problem is thethermostat. Every time I ask them to check thethermostat, and they haven't removed thethermostatonce (which is the
>> recommended method in the dealer service manual). My old Acura Integra
>> (also an aluminum 1.8L) had the same problem once, I replaced thethermostatand she was fine.
>
>> My problem is with the dealer here in Whitehorse- they keep telling me
>> not to run the heater at full, or that 'these little engines don't
>> produce as much heat'. It doesn't make sense. If the engine is at
>> temperature, thethermostatshould open and close to keep it at
>> temperature. I'm paying them to replace thethermostatat my cost,
>> and save the parts for me. (If I get an openthermostatback I'll be
>> getting unglued). Thethermostatshould be in this week, I'll let you
>> know how it goes.
>
>> I'm sure you've noticed your gas consumption increase as well- I'm
>> getting about 250km to a tank right now, just slightly better than my
>> friends Land Rover. You may have also noticed the temperature drop on
>> long downhill roads... I can usually drop the temp from 1/2 to 1/6 on
>> a good hill.
>
>> FYI: I've installed some cardboard in front of the bumper, at least
>> now it reaches temperature when I'm on the highway... I'll keep you
>> posted.
>
>> Corry
>
> Forgot to mention that I drive an 07 Civic. This is its first cold
> winter, so I'm only noticing the problem now.
>
> C

wrote in
:

> See my original message below:
>
> So after taking the car into the dealer for a total of seven times (3
> of which were to have them flush the radiator because they couldn't
> seem to remember to fill the reservoir tank...), I finally got fed up
> with the lack of service from my dealer and called Honda Canada.
>
> After explaining the problem, they called the dealer on my behalf.
> The dealer ordered a new thermostat, and installed it when it
> arrived. My car heats up fine now. Even at -30. The service manager
> said it must have been 'selectively sticking'. (Probably just when
> the engine was running).




Like I've said all along: There's surely a TSB coming soon.



>
> FYI: From what I can tell, there is only one temperature of
> thermostat available for the 06+ generation civic at this point,



No Honda has an "optional" OEM thermostat. The cooling system works just
fine with the single one that's specified.



> (set
> at 170 degrees) I've called jobber shops and most don't even stock the
> part because its a new style.




That's interesting. I wonder what's the difference between old and new?




> (They usually start making parts once
> the warranties are up). Canadian tire carries the right thermostat.
> If you get a chance to order a hotter thermostat (190 degrees), they
> work great- very nice investment for the wintertime. You will however
> notice a small drop in fuel economy and performance.



Bad idea. Never install a hotter thermostat than what was specified for
your car.

Your car is meant to take a thermostat that says "78C" on it, which
translates to 170F. That's the temperature at which it starts to open. A
170 is fully open at 90C, or 194F.

A thermostat that says 90C or 194F on it will be fully open at about
215. WAY too hot.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Tegger ) writes:
> wrote in
> :
>
>> See my original message below:
>>
>> So after taking the car into the dealer for a total of seven times (3
>> of which were to have them flush the radiator because they couldn't
>> seem to remember to fill the reservoir tank...), I finally got fed up
>> with the lack of service from my dealer and called Honda Canada.
>>
>> After explaining the problem, they called the dealer on my behalf.
>> The dealer ordered a new thermostat, and installed it when it
>> arrived. My car heats up fine now. Even at -30. The service manager
>> said it must have been 'selectively sticking'. (Probably just when
>> the engine was running).
>
>
>
>
> Like I've said all along: There's surely a TSB coming soon.
>
>
>
>>
>> FYI: From what I can tell, there is only one temperature of
>> thermostat available for the 06+ generation civic at this point,
>
>
>
> No Honda has an "optional" OEM thermostat. The cooling system works just
> fine with the single one that's specified.
>


From the 1986 Canadian Honda Accord Shop Manual (First Edition 9/85)
Honda No.'s 62SE300C and (SM)C3408706G

Page 10-7

STANDARD THERMOSTAT
Lift height: 8 mm (0.31 in.)
Starts opening: Primary: 82 Deg. C plus or minus 2 (180F + or - 3)
Secondary: 85 C + or- 2 (185F + or - 3)
Fully open: 95 C (203F)

OPTIONAL THERMOSTAT
Lift height: 8 mm (0.32 in.)
Starts opening: 86--90 Deg C (187--194F)
Fully open: 100 C (212F)


Happy St. Paddy's (Mar.17)



>
>
>> (set
>> at 170 degrees) I've called jobber shops and most don't even stock the
>> part because its a new style.
>
>
>
>
> That's interesting. I wonder what's the difference between old and new?
>
>
>
>
>> (They usually start making parts once
>> the warranties are up). Canadian tire carries the right thermostat.
>> If you get a chance to order a hotter thermostat (190 degrees), they
>> work great- very nice investment for the wintertime. You will however
>> notice a small drop in fuel economy and performance.
>
>
>
> Bad idea. Never install a hotter thermostat than what was specified for
> your car.
>
> Your car is meant to take a thermostat that says "78C" on it, which
> translates to 170F. That's the temperature at which it starts to open. A
> 170 is fully open at 90C, or 194F.
>
> A thermostat that says 90C or 194F on it will be fully open at about
> 215. WAY too hot.
>
>
> --
> Tegger
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
> www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

(M.A. Stewart) wrote in
:

> Tegger ) writes:

>>
>> No Honda has an "optional" OEM thermostat. The cooling system works
>> just fine with the single one that's specified.
>>
>
>
> From the 1986 Canadian Honda Accord Shop Manual (First Edition 9/85)
> Honda No.'s 62SE300C and (SM)C3408706G
>
> Page 10-7
>
> STANDARD THERMOSTAT
> Lift height: 8 mm (0.31 in.)
> Starts opening: Primary: 82 Deg. C plus or minus 2 (180F + or - 3)
> Secondary: 85 C + or- 2 (185F + or - 3)
> Fully open: 95 C (203F)
>
> OPTIONAL THERMOSTAT
> Lift height: 8 mm (0.32 in.)
> Starts opening: 86--90 Deg C (187--194F)
> Fully open: 100 C (212F)
>



Well, if you want to go THAT far back...

Let me a bit more precise, then: No Honda made _after 1989_ had an
"optional" thermostat.

None of my numerous Honda shop manuals list any optional thermostat. Except
the one for the '86-'89 Accord.

Certainly, however, the OP's '07 Civic takes only one specified thermostat
rating, so your point is moot.



>
> Happy St. Paddy's (Mar.17)
>



I'd be happier if St. Paddy's was on the weekend. It's tough getting
hammered when you have to go to work the next day.



--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

M.A. Stewart wrote:
> Tegger ) writes:
>> wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> See my original message below:
>>>
>>> So after taking the car into the dealer for a total of seven times (3
>>> of which were to have them flush the radiator because they couldn't
>>> seem to remember to fill the reservoir tank...), I finally got fed up
>>> with the lack of service from my dealer and called Honda Canada.
>>>
>>> After explaining the problem, they called the dealer on my behalf.
>>> The dealer ordered a new thermostat, and installed it when it
>>> arrived. My car heats up fine now. Even at -30. The service manager
>>> said it must have been 'selectively sticking'. (Probably just when
>>> the engine was running).
>>
>>
>>
>> Like I've said all along: There's surely a TSB coming soon.
>>
>>
>>
>>> FYI: From what I can tell, there is only one temperature of
>>> thermostat available for the 06+ generation civic at this point,
>>
>>
>> No Honda has an "optional" OEM thermostat. The cooling system works just
>> fine with the single one that's specified.
>>
>
>
> From the 1986 Canadian Honda Accord Shop Manual (First Edition 9/85)
> Honda No.'s 62SE300C and (SM)C3408706G
>
> Page 10-7
>
> STANDARD THERMOSTAT
> Lift height: 8 mm (0.31 in.)
> Starts opening: Primary: 82 Deg. C plus or minus 2 (180F + or - 3)
> Secondary: 85 C + or- 2 (185F + or - 3)
> Fully open: 95 C (203F)
>
> OPTIONAL THERMOSTAT
> Lift height: 8 mm (0.32 in.)
> Starts opening: 86--90 Deg C (187--194F)
> Fully open: 100 C (212F)
>

that's a carburetted vehicle though. fuel injection vehicles are very
particular on coolant temperature being correctly maintained. that's
why defects like sensor drift or thermostat drift have such significant
consequences.




>
> Happy St. Paddy's (Mar.17)
>
>
>
>>
>>> (set
>>> at 170 degrees) I've called jobber shops and most don't even stock the
>>> part because its a new style.
>>
>>
>>
>> That's interesting. I wonder what's the difference between old and new?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> (They usually start making parts once
>>> the warranties are up). Canadian tire carries the right thermostat.
>>> If you get a chance to order a hotter thermostat (190 degrees), they
>>> work great- very nice investment for the wintertime. You will however
>>> notice a small drop in fuel economy and performance.
>>
>>
>> Bad idea. Never install a hotter thermostat than what was specified for
>> your car.
>>
>> Your car is meant to take a thermostat that says "78C" on it, which
>> translates to 170F. That's the temperature at which it starts to open. A
>> 170 is fully open at 90C, or 194F.
>>
>> A thermostat that says 90C or 194F on it will be fully open at about
>> 215. WAY too hot.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tegger
>>
>> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
>> www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
>
>