Keep your papers ready to be produced immediately or it's a tazering

On Dec 6, 6:33 pm, (Brent P) wrote:
> In article >, Scott in SoCal wrote:
> > On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 09:06:01 -0600,
> > (Brent P) wrote:
>
> >>In article >, Scott in SoCal wrote:
> >>> On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 07:46:48 -0600,
> >>> (Brent P) wrote:
>
> >>>>In article >, Daniel W. Rouse Jr. wrote:
>
> >>>>> It really is not that hard to understand: suddenly reaching into a glove box
> >>>>> or center console compartment without telling the officer what is being
> >>>>> retrieved could very well cause the officer to think one is reaching for a
> >>>>> weapon. If the officer thinks one is reaching for a weapon, the officer will
> >>>>> justifiably think their life is in danger. More than likely, an officer who
> >>>>> feels their life is in danger will not wait to actually see if there is
> >>>>> actually weapon before they decide on the level of force necessary to defend
> >>>>> themselves.
>
> >>>>Roadside robbery is a dangerous profession, maybe they should consider a
> >>>>different line of work?
>
> >>> So why don't you just keep a gun under the seat and shoot the next
> >>> robber that pulls you over? It would save you from a tazing and all
> >>> the other hassles of a traffic stop.
>
> >>I'm not a killer. I don't even squish insects Icatch them in a box and
> >>put them outside.
>
> > OK, then why do you stop when they turn on their disco lights? Why not
> > just floor it and run away? I would certainly do that if a robber was
> > chasing me...
>
> That bit about being government employed.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

And the difference between running or fighting the cop is just what?

Harry K

In article >, Harry K wrote:
> On Dec 6, 6:33 pm, (Brent P) wrote:
>> In article >, Scott in SoCal wrote:
>> > On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 09:06:01 -0600,
>> > (Brent P) wrote:
>>
>> >>In article >, Scott in SoCal wrote:
>> >>> On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 07:46:48 -0600,
>> >>> (Brent P) wrote:
>>
>> >>>>In article >, Daniel W. Rouse Jr. wrote:
>>
>> >>>>> It really is not that hard to understand: suddenly reaching into a glove box
>> >>>>> or center console compartment without telling the officer what is being
>> >>>>> retrieved could very well cause the officer to think one is reaching for a
>> >>>>> weapon. If the officer thinks one is reaching for a weapon, the officer will
>> >>>>> justifiably think their life is in danger. More than likely, an officer who
>> >>>>> feels their life is in danger will not wait to actually see if there is
>> >>>>> actually weapon before they decide on the level of force necessary to defend
>> >>>>> themselves.
>>
>> >>>>Roadside robbery is a dangerous profession, maybe they should consider a
>> >>>>different line of work?
>>
>> >>> So why don't you just keep a gun under the seat and shoot the next
>> >>> robber that pulls you over? It would save you from a tazing and all
>> >>> the other hassles of a traffic stop.
>>
>> >>I'm not a killer. I don't even squish insects Icatch them in a box and
>> >>put them outside.
>>
>> > OK, then why do you stop when they turn on their disco lights? Why not
>> > just floor it and run away? I would certainly do that if a robber was
>> > chasing me...
>>
>> That bit about being government employed.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> And the difference between running or fighting the cop is just what?

It seems all that you understand is that they are your slave masters.
I am sorry you don't see yourself as anything more than property of the
state, to be whipped, beaten, or killed if you anger its employees.

Respect my rights and there won't be any problem.

On Dec 6, 9:22 pm, (Brent P) wrote:
> In article >, Harry K wrote:
> > On Dec 6, 6:33 pm, (Brent P) wrote:
> >> In article >, Scott in SoCal wrote:
> >> > On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 09:06:01 -0600,
> >> > (Brent P) wrote:
>
> >> >>In article >, Scott in SoCal wrote:
> >> >>> On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 07:46:48 -0600,
> >> >>> (Brent P) wrote:
>
> >> >>>>In article >, Daniel W. Rouse Jr. wrote:
>
> >> >>>>> It really is not that hard to understand: suddenly reaching into a glove box
> >> >>>>> or center console compartment without telling the officer what is being
> >> >>>>> retrieved could very well cause the officer to think one is reaching for a
> >> >>>>> weapon. If the officer thinks one is reaching for a weapon, the officer will
> >> >>>>> justifiably think their life is in danger. More than likely, an officer who
> >> >>>>> feels their life is in danger will not wait to actually see if there is
> >> >>>>> actually weapon before they decide on the level of force necessary to defend
> >> >>>>> themselves.
>
> >> >>>>Roadside robbery is a dangerous profession, maybe they should consider a
> >> >>>>different line of work?
>
> >> >>> So why don't you just keep a gun under the seat and shoot the next
> >> >>> robber that pulls you over? It would save you from a tazing and all
> >> >>> the other hassles of a traffic stop.
>
> >> >>I'm not a killer. I don't even squish insects Icatch them in a box and
> >> >>put them outside.
>
> >> > OK, then why do you stop when they turn on their disco lights? Why not
> >> > just floor it and run away? I would certainly do that if a robber was
> >> > chasing me...
>
> >> That bit about being government employed.- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > And the difference between running or fighting the cop is just what?
>
> It seems all that you understand is that they are your slave masters.
> I am sorry you don't see yourself as anything more than property of the
> state, to be whipped, beaten, or killed if you anger its employees.
>
> Respect my rights and there won't be any problem.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

If you weren't going to answer the question, why bother replying?

Harry K

In article >, Harry K wrote:
> On Dec 6, 9:22 pm, (Brent P) wrote:

>> > And the difference between running or fighting the cop is just what?
>>
>> It seems all that you understand is that they are your slave masters.
>> I am sorry you don't see yourself as anything more than property of the
>> state, to be whipped, beaten, or killed if you anger its employees.
>>
>> Respect my rights and there won't be any problem.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> If you weren't going to answer the question, why bother replying?

I did. If they respect my rights there won't be a problem. If they don't
respect my rights, well then, that's something that cannot be answered in
a universal manner. I have already described to you how I've handled
situations in the past. Thusly your 'question' has been answered.

In article >,
Harry K > wrote:
>On Dec 6, 9:20 am, (Matthew T. Russotto)
>wrote:
>>
>> >According to you, you will lose if you complain to the the higher ups
>> >or even get a lawyer. So your solution is to pick a way so you lose
>> >big time on the side of the road AND lose when you complain about it.
>> >Looks like a **** poor choice to me. I would prefer to lose just once
>> >and that without getting hurt doing it.
>>
>> You still lose twice. It's just that the first time, you immediately
>> surrender.
>>
>But walk away from it unhurt. Other than _hopefully_ making a scene
>that gets to the public attention, resisting is a zero win game with
>possibility injury.

Well, maybe you walk away from it unhurt. Maybe the cop beats on you
anyway. It's all up to him.

>Again: Once the cop has decided you will comply, you will lose and
>possibly lose big time. Resisting hoping he will change his mind is
>not on the table - it ain't a gonna happen.

I'm not interested in changing his mind. If I'm interested in
anything about him, it's in making his life difficult. Why --
ignoring the risk to myself -- should I make it easy for him to run
roughshod over my rights?
--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.

In article >,
Ashton Crusher > wrote:
>
>Are you people on drugs? The COP has asked for license and reg.
>EVERYONE keeps it in their glove box or console. So what they hell
>would the cop expect people to do other then open their glove box or
>console in response to his request???? How is that in any way a
>surprise to the cop?

It's an intentional Catch-22. It's to give them an excuse to shoot
you. Sort of like when they say "Freeze! Put your hands up!" and
then shoot the suspect for moving his hands up because he disobeyed
"Freeze".
--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.

On Dec 7, 8:10 am, Ashton Crusher > wrote:
> On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 06:48:51 -0800, Scott in SoCal
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> >On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 07:46:48 -0600,
> >(Brent P) wrote:
>
> >>In article >, Daniel W. Rouse Jr. wrote:
>
> >>> It really is not that hard to understand: suddenly reaching into a glove box
> >>> or center console compartment without telling the officer what is being
> >>> retrieved could very well cause the officer to think one is reaching for a
> >>> weapon. If the officer thinks one is reaching for a weapon, the officer will
> >>> justifiably think their life is in danger. More than likely, an officer who
> >>> feels their life is in danger will not wait to actually see if there is
> >>> actually weapon before they decide on the level of force necessary to defend
> >>> themselves.
>
> >>Roadside robbery is a dangerous profession, maybe they should consider a
> >>different line of work?
>
> >So why don't you just keep a gun under the seat and shoot the next
> >robber that pulls you over? It would save you from a tazing and all
> >the other hassles of a traffic stop.
>
> >Same thing for Matt - you seem to think it's better to go out
> >fighting, so why don't the two of you just take out as many of these
> >robbing pigs as you can before they finally get you?
>
> Why do you call maintaining ones self respect and rights "fighting"? I
> haven't seen anyone suggest shooting the cops if they start to ignore
> your rights. If the cop asks to look in your trunk you have the right
> to refuse. If he has no probable cause he can't do it. What will you
> do if a cop asks you to look in your trunk? Are you going to just let
> him so you don't get him upset? What if he decides to strip search
> you and your wife on the side of the road? You just going to go along
> with it instead asking him what the hell is going on"? Tell me how
> you will just take it to court later.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

You did read the thread right? This is about refusing to comply with
an order where the order deals with beign arrested. Has nothing to do
with saying "No" to a question.

Harry K

In article
>,
Harry K > wrote:

> On Dec 7, 8:10 am, Ashton Crusher > wrote:
> > On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 06:48:51 -0800, Scott in SoCal
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > wrote:
> > >On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 07:46:48 -0600,
> > >(Brent P) wrote:
> >
> > >>In article >, Daniel W.
> > >>Rouse Jr. wrote:
> >
> > >>> It really is not that hard to understand: suddenly reaching into a
> > >>> glove box
> > >>> or center console compartment without telling the officer what is being
> > >>> retrieved could very well cause the officer to think one is reaching
> > >>> for a
> > >>> weapon. If the officer thinks one is reaching for a weapon, the officer
> > >>> will
> > >>> justifiably think their life is in danger. More than likely, an officer
> > >>> who
> > >>> feels their life is in danger will not wait to actually see if there is
> > >>> actually weapon before they decide on the level of force necessary to
> > >>> defend
> > >>> themselves.
> >
> > >>Roadside robbery is a dangerous profession, maybe they should consider a
> > >>different line of work?
> >
> > >So why don't you just keep a gun under the seat and shoot the next
> > >robber that pulls you over? It would save you from a tazing and all
> > >the other hassles of a traffic stop.
> >
> > >Same thing for Matt - you seem to think it's better to go out
> > >fighting, so why don't the two of you just take out as many of these
> > >robbing pigs as you can before they finally get you?
> >
> > Why do you call maintaining ones self respect and rights "fighting"? I
> > haven't seen anyone suggest shooting the cops if they start to ignore
> > your rights. If the cop asks to look in your trunk you have the right
> > to refuse. If he has no probable cause he can't do it. What will you
> > do if a cop asks you to look in your trunk? Are you going to just let
> > him so you don't get him upset? What if he decides to strip search
> > you and your wife on the side of the road? You just going to go along
> > with it instead asking him what the hell is going on"? Tell me how
> > you will just take it to court later.- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> You did read the thread right? This is about refusing to comply with
> an order where the order deals with beign arrested. Has nothing to do
> with saying "No" to a question.
>
> Harry K

No.

No order dealing with "being arrested" had been issued.

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

On Dec 7, 8:14 pm, Alan Baker > wrote:
> In article
> >,
> Harry K > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 7, 8:10 am, Ashton Crusher > wrote:
> > > On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 06:48:51 -0800, Scott in SoCal
>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 07:46:48 -0600,
> > > >(Brent P) wrote:
>
> > > >>In article >, Daniel W.
> > > >>Rouse Jr. wrote:
>
> > > >>> It really is not that hard to understand: suddenly reaching into a
> > > >>> glove box
> > > >>> or center console compartment without telling the officer what is being
> > > >>> retrieved could very well cause the officer to think one is reaching
> > > >>> for a
> > > >>> weapon. If the officer thinks one is reaching for a weapon, the officer
> > > >>> will
> > > >>> justifiably think their life is in danger. More than likely, an officer
> > > >>> who
> > > >>> feels their life is in danger will not wait to actually see if there is
> > > >>> actually weapon before they decide on the level of force necessary to
> > > >>> defend
> > > >>> themselves.
>
> > > >>Roadside robbery is a dangerous profession, maybe they should consider a
> > > >>different line of work?
>
> > > >So why don't you just keep a gun under the seat and shoot the next
> > > >robber that pulls you over? It would save you from a tazing and all
> > > >the other hassles of a traffic stop.
>
> > > >Same thing for Matt - you seem to think it's better to go out
> > > >fighting, so why don't the two of you just take out as many of these
> > > >robbing pigs as you can before they finally get you?
>
> > > Why do you call maintaining ones self respect and rights "fighting"? I
> > > haven't seen anyone suggest shooting the cops if they start to ignore
> > > your rights. If the cop asks to look in your trunk you have the right
> > > to refuse. If he has no probable cause he can't do it. What will you
> > > do if a cop asks you to look in your trunk? Are you going to just let
> > > him so you don't get him upset? What if he decides to strip search
> > > you and your wife on the side of the road? You just going to go along
> > > with it instead asking him what the hell is going on"? Tell me how
> > > you will just take it to court later.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > You did read the thread right? This is about refusing to comply with
> > an order where the order deals with beign arrested. Has nothing to do
> > with saying "No" to a question.
>
> > Harry K
>
> No.
>
> No order dealing with "being arrested" had been issued.
>
> --
> Alan Baker
> Vancouver, British Columbia
> "If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
> to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
> sit in the bottom of that cupboard."- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

While it would have been better, the repeated order to 'turn
around" (I think that was the term) would be sufficient for even the
brain impaired to understand it was time to comply. Time for protest
had already passed, any further resistance would result in just what
did happen.

To repeat _again_ which people in these threads keep ignoring. "once
a cop has decided you _will_ do what he says, it doesn't matter a
tinkers damn at that moment whether the order is legal or not, you
will comply or get hurt and still wind up complying albeit
unwillignly."

Some one ?Necromancer? did make the point that continuing to the
point of physical action can make a point to the public.

Those, I think 3 now, who claim to have successfully won an argument
did not do so _after_ the cop decided that they would do as he said.

Harry K

In article >, Harry K wrote:

> While it would have been better, the repeated order to 'turn
> around" (I think that was the term) would be sufficient for even the
> brain impaired to understand it was time to comply. Time for protest
> had already passed, any further resistance would result in just what
> did happen.

Could you have a stronger slave programing? Seriously, they say jump and
to you it's 'how high'. I'm sorry, often the ranks of cops are filled
with the likes of school-bullies, people who want revenge for what
happened to them as a kid, ex-military authoritarians, and criminals who
decided to become licensed by the government.

> To repeat _again_ which people in these threads keep ignoring. "once
> a cop has decided you _will_ do what he says, it doesn't matter a
> tinkers damn at that moment whether the order is legal or not, you
> will comply or get hurt and still wind up complying albeit
> unwillignly."

What you do not grasp is a free society cannot exist by obeying whatever
the empire's minions say. Individuals must each take a stand and refuse
to obey at the line of their creator-given rights.

> Those, I think 3 now, who claim to have successfully won an argument
> did not do so _after_ the cop decided that they would do as he said.

I've ignored a number of 'orders' from the government's armed employees
without a damn thing happening to me. And if I got shot, so be it. At
least I am not living as a coward. I'll assert my rights because if not at
least a few of us do, none of us have them. Government has to be more
affraid of the people than the people of it.