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Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 18th 18, 01:48 AM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,uk.rec.cars.maintenance
ultred ragnusen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 54
Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools on this vehicle
whose tires I rotated today and which I plan on rotating every 4K miles (6K
km).

First question is what is the practical difference between these three 21mm
(13/16ths) "sockets" for the lug bolts on the car I was working on today?
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/socket_ends.jpg
1. The standard lug wrench (green) has 6 points, each at a sharp angle.
2. The impact socket (black) has 6 points, each at a semicircular angle.
3. The standard socket (chrome) has 12 points, each at a sharp angle.

Second question, are these "cut marks" on a lug nut normal?
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/dented_nuts.jpg
I always use deep sockets, which fit over the whole nut, so I know I didn't
make these marks - but what did make the marks? Are they factory original?
If so, why?

Third question is related to this combination pictu
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/torquewrench.jpg
Where this question is a combination question of:
a. Why is the green 21mm "lug wrench" so very short compared to all others?
b. What's the practical difference, if any, with respect to torquing lug
bolts to 85 foot pounds (115 N-m), between the two types of torque wrenches
shown?
c. Does anyone even use that bottom-most "auger style" ratchet bar for fast
removal anymore? (I don't have power bolt-removal tools so that's why I use
it.)
And, the most important question, for torquing lug nuts, is
d. Does the torque change depending on the length of the socket extension
bar?

Fourth question is more of an observation than a question, where I combed
the tires for rocks and nails, as I always do when I rotate the tires every
4K miles, when I saw this tiny little steel dot embedded in the rubber in
each of the front tires.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/splinter1.jpg

That tiny dot turned out to be this funny-shaped steel sliver, pointy side
was pointing into the tire in both front tires.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/splinter2.jpg

The question is whether these embedded rocks and splinters, of which I
always find between 50 and 100 in each tire (mostly tiny pebbles and bits
of glass stuck in the tiny sipes of the tire tread) would eventually fall
out as the rubber wears (negating the need to periodically pick them out at
each tire rotation)?
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/splinter3.jpg

In summary, I ask these basic questions simply to learn more about how to
better rotate tires every 4K miles (6.5K km).

  #2  
Old February 18th 18, 02:43 AM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Clare Snyder
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 72
Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 16:48:03 -0800, ultred ragnusen
> wrote:

>Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools on this vehicle
>whose tires I rotated today and which I plan on rotating every 4K miles (6K
>km).
>
>First question is what is the practical difference between these three 21mm
>(13/16ths) "sockets" for the lug bolts on the car I was working on today?
>http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/socket_ends.jpg
>1. The standard lug wrench (green) has 6 points, each at a sharp angle.
>2. The impact socket (black) has 6 points, each at a semicircular angle.
>3. The standard socket (chrome) has 12 points, each at a sharp angle.


The impact socket is superior for that application - whether using an
impact driver or not. A 12 point socket is better in situations where
fine motion is required.
>
>Second question, are these "cut marks" on a lug nut normal?
>http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/dented_nuts.jpg


Yes, they are there from the factory.
>I always use deep sockets, which fit over the whole nut, so I know I didn't
>make these marks - but what did make the marks? Are they factory original?
>If so, why?
>
>Third question is related to this combination pictu
>http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/torquewrench.jpg


>Where this question is a combination question of:
>a. Why is the green 21mm "lug wrench" so very short compared to all others?


To make it fit in the jack bag
>b. What's the practical difference, if any, with respect to torquing lug
>bolts to 85 foot pounds (115 N-m), between the two types of torque wrenches
>shown?


The Micrometer adjusting "click" is easier to use.
>c. Does anyone even use that bottom-most "auger style" ratchet bar for fast
>removal anymore? (I don't have power bolt-removal tools so that's why I use
>it.)

A "speed handle" is very handy for spinning nuts on and off after
breaking them loose and before torquing. I still use mine a lot. - not
just for wheel nuts,
>And, the most important question, for torquing lug nuts, is
>d. Does the torque change depending on the length of the socket extension
>bar?


No.
>
>Fourth question is more of an observation than a question, where I combed
>the tires for rocks and nails, as I always do when I rotate the tires every
>4K miles, when I saw this tiny little steel dot embedded in the rubber in
>each of the front tires.
>http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/splinter1.jpg
>
>That tiny dot turned out to be this funny-shaped steel sliver, pointy side
>was pointing into the tire in both front tires.
>http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/splinter2.jpg


Looks like a small staple.
>
>The question is whether these embedded rocks and splinters, of which I
>always find between 50 and 100 in each tire (mostly tiny pebbles and bits
>of glass stuck in the tiny sipes of the tire tread) would eventually fall
>out as the rubber wears (negating the need to periodically pick them out at
>each tire rotation)?
>http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/splinter3.jpg
>
>In summary, I ask these basic questions simply to learn more about how to
>better rotate tires every 4K miles (6.5K km).



You are best to rotate only front to back on MOST vehicles -and MUST
do so with "directional" tires.

In over 40 years Ihave NEVER done side to side rotations. (and I'm a
mechanic)
  #3  
Old February 18th 18, 03:40 AM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Ed Pawlowski
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 202
Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

On 2/17/2018 8:43 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:

>
>
> You are best to rotate only front to back on MOST vehicles -and MUST
> do so with "directional" tires.
>
> In over 40 years Ihave NEVER done side to side rotations. (and I'm a
> mechanic)
>


I knowof people that have done side to side on car with different size
front and back, but it seems about useless.

I also rotate with oil changes at 7500. IMO, 4000 is a bit too soon but
if you have the time and engergy . . .
  #4  
Old February 18th 18, 01:37 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Fredxx
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

On 18/02/2018 01:43, Clare Snyder wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 16:48:03 -0800, ultred ragnusen
> > wrote:
>
>> Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools on this vehicle
>> whose tires I rotated today and which I plan on rotating every 4K miles (6K
>> km).
>>
>> First question is what is the practical difference between these three 21mm
>> (13/16ths) "sockets" for the lug bolts on the car I was working on today?
>> http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/socket_ends.jpg
>> 1. The standard lug wrench (green) has 6 points, each at a sharp angle.
>> 2. The impact socket (black) has 6 points, each at a semicircular angle.
>> 3. The standard socket (chrome) has 12 points, each at a sharp angle.

>
> The impact socket is superior for that application - whether using an
> impact driver or not. A 12 point socket is better in situations where
> fine motion is required.
>>
>> Second question, are these "cut marks" on a lug nut normal?
>> http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/dented_nuts.jpg

>
> Yes, they are there from the factory.


Why? Not all nuts have this mark, and in the UK nuts with this mark are
generally used for hoses that contain inflammable gases.
  #5  
Old February 18th 18, 06:11 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,uk.rec.cars.maintenance
ultred ragnusen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 54
Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

wrote:

>>> Second question, are these "cut marks" on a lug nut normal?
>>> http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/dented_nuts.jpg

>>
>> Yes, they are there from the factory.

>
> Why? Not all nuts have this mark, and in the UK nuts with this mark are
> generally used for hoses that contain inflammable gases.


I also wonder why the cuts are there, all at the same depth on the nut.

A friend I just spoke to says his car has them too, so, they're pretty
common.

If they're made at the factory, why?
  #6  
Old February 18th 18, 06:49 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Mrcheerful
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Posts: 14
Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

On 18/02/2018 17:11, ultred ragnusen wrote:
> wrote:
>
>>>> Second question, are these "cut marks" on a lug nut normal?
>>>> http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/dented_nuts.jpg
>>>
>>> Yes, they are there from the factory.

>>
>> Why? Not all nuts have this mark, and in the UK nuts with this mark are
>> generally used for hoses that contain inflammable gases.

>
> I also wonder why the cuts are there, all at the same depth on the nut.
>
> A friend I just spoke to says his car has them too, so, they're pretty
> common.
>
> If they're made at the factory, why?
>


possibly because they locate in the tool that puts on all the wheel nuts
at the same time.
  #7  
Old February 18th 18, 08:32 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Fredxx
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

On 18/02/2018 17:49, MrCheerful wrote:
> On 18/02/2018 17:11, ultred ragnusen wrote:
>> Â* wrote:
>>
>>>>> Second question, are these "cut marks" on a lug nut normal?
>>>>> http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/dented_nuts.jpg
>>>>
>>>> Yes, they are there from the factory.
>>>
>>> Why? Not all nuts have this mark, and in the UK nuts with this mark are
>>> generally used for hoses that contain inflammable gases.

>>
>> I also wonder why the cuts are there, all at the same depth on the nut.
>>
>> A friend I just spoke to says his car has them too, so, they're pretty
>> common.
>>
>> If they're made at the factory, why?
>>

>
> possibly because they locate in the tool that puts on all the wheel nuts
> at the same time.


OK - like a circlip type clip to retain the nut in the tool?

That would make sense.

  #8  
Old February 18th 18, 08:19 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
dsi1[_11_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 331
Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

On Sunday, February 18, 2018 at 2:37:31 AM UTC-10, Fredxx wrote:
>
> Why? Not all nuts have this mark, and in the UK nuts with this mark are
> generally used for hoses that contain inflammable gases.


My guess is that the lug nutz are marked that way to indicate the grade of the fastener in this critical application.
  #9  
Old February 18th 18, 06:00 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,uk.rec.cars.maintenance
ultred ragnusen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 54
Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

wrote:

>>First question is what is the practical difference between these three 21mm
>>(13/16ths) "sockets" for the lug bolts on the car I was working on today?
>>http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/socket_ends.jpg
>>1. The standard lug wrench (green) has 6 points, each at a sharp angle.
>>2. The impact socket (black) has 6 points, each at a semicircular angle.
>>3. The standard socket (chrome) has 12 points, each at a sharp angle.

>
> The impact socket is superior for that application - whether using an
> impact driver or not. A 12 point socket is better in situations where
> fine motion is required.


This is good to know that the impact socket is superior, probably for two
reasons, right?
1. It has those radius corners (someone said it reduces stress on both the
nuts and the socket itself).
2. It is stronger overall (presumably)

Since there is always a drawback, I think the drawback might be:
3. They're "fatter" it seems, than my normal sockets
4. They don't seem to come in 12-point sizes (at least mine aren't)
  #10  
Old February 18th 18, 06:42 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Mrcheerful
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14
Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

On 18/02/2018 17:00, ultred ragnusen wrote:
> wrote:
>
>>> First question is what is the practical difference between these three 21mm
>>> (13/16ths) "sockets" for the lug bolts on the car I was working on today?
>>> http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/socket_ends.jpg
>>> 1. The standard lug wrench (green) has 6 points, each at a sharp angle.
>>> 2. The impact socket (black) has 6 points, each at a semicircular angle.
>>> 3. The standard socket (chrome) has 12 points, each at a sharp angle.

>>
>> The impact socket is superior for that application - whether using an
>> impact driver or not. A 12 point socket is better in situations where
>> fine motion is required.

>
> This is good to know that the impact socket is superior, probably for two
> reasons, right?
> 1. It has those radius corners (someone said it reduces stress on both the
> nuts and the socket itself).
> 2. It is stronger overall (presumably)
>
> Since there is always a drawback, I think the drawback might be:
> 3. They're "fatter" it seems, than my normal sockets
> 4. They don't seem to come in 12-point sizes (at least mine aren't)
>


I use single hex impact sockets for 99.9 percent of jobs, there are
practically speaking no occasions when they are too fat to get
somewhere. (better makes are thinner sided than cheap ones)

Unless you have 12 sided nuts/bolts, then you do not need 12 sided
sockets (there are some odd cars/equipment which use 12 sided hardware)
 




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