anti Touareg sentiment

Tell me you didn't write this compelling rebuttal with a straight face.

--
Kent
1987 VW GTI 8V, original owner, 220,000+ miles

"D. Dub" > wrote in message
news:SBW3d.465410$M95.191639@pd7tw1no...
> trips to the beach, mall, and Mammoth DO constitute
> a NEED if you are a healthy well adjusted person.
>
>
>
> "Kent" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Look sport, somewhere between 21 years old and maturity you'll hopefully
> > begin to realize that trips to the beach, mall, and Mammoth don't
> constitute
> > a NEED. Just trust me on this one. But I'm glad to hear that you're an
> > active little tike; it'll keep you away from the glass teat (aka TV).
> >
> > --
> > Kent
> > 1987 VW GTI 8V, original owner, 220,000+ miles
> >
> > "Steve Grauman" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > >Somehow, our parents, and our parent's parents, "made due" without
> these
> > > >leather clad, bechromed behemoths, and their families were larger on
> > > >average.
> > >
> > > First of all, I never said that they had to be luxo-barges. Hyundai,
Kia
> > and
> > > Saturn all sell medium sized SUVs that are reasonablly priced and
> > realistically
> > > equipped. Just because some people need (and yes, I mean NEED) an
> > Excursion
> > > doesn't mean we all do. Secondly, take a look at how large sedans in
the
> > 50s,
> > > 60s and 70s were. Not exactly Jetta-sized. Third, the most popular
> vehicle
> > type
> > > in America for most of that time-period was the station wagon. And the
> > vast
> > > majority of SUVs today are little more than station wagons with more
> > ground
> > > clearence. So you can quit this high and mighty "our parents didn't
need
> > it"
> > > bull****. In the 21 years I've been alive, I've played hockey,
baseball
> > and
> > > football and taken martial arts. Same with my brother, and we usually
> > > car-pooled with other team-members/classmates. 7 or 8 kids +
> > > hockey/baseball/football gear doesn't sit well in something the size
of
> a
> > > Passat. And forget about all the times my mother carted us in groups
of
> 5
> > or
> > > more to the beach, the mall, etc..., or my dogs. We NEEDED the space,
we
> > USED
> > > the space. In 2001 when we didn't need the huge vehicles as much, we
> > > down-sized. My mother traded in her Expedition for an RX300, which is
> > > Camry/ES300 based. It still has AWD and ground clearence which we USE
on
> > trips
> > > to Mammoth in the snow, it still has room for luggage and/or my dogs.
> But
> > it
> > > isn't a killer.
> > >
> > > >More proof that
> > > >growing up in front of the television makes you soft in the head.
> > >
> > > Yea, that must be it...
> > > Steve Grauman
> >
> >
>
>

Hey Kent,

Did you walk to school in 5 feet of snow, every day, 367 days a year, uphill
both ways?


"Kent" > wrote in message
...
> Tell me you didn't write this compelling rebuttal with a straight face.
>
> --
> Kent
> 1987 VW GTI 8V, original owner, 220,000+ miles
>
> "D. Dub" > wrote in message
> news:SBW3d.465410$M95.191639@pd7tw1no...
> > trips to the beach, mall, and Mammoth DO constitute
> > a NEED if you are a healthy well adjusted person.
> >
> >
> >
> > "Kent" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Look sport, somewhere between 21 years old and maturity you'll
hopefully
> > > begin to realize that trips to the beach, mall, and Mammoth don't
> > constitute
> > > a NEED. Just trust me on this one. But I'm glad to hear that you're an
> > > active little tike; it'll keep you away from the glass teat (aka TV).
> > >
> > > --
> > > Kent
> > > 1987 VW GTI 8V, original owner, 220,000+ miles
> > >
> > > "Steve Grauman" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > >Somehow, our parents, and our parent's parents, "made due" without
> > these
> > > > >leather clad, bechromed behemoths, and their families were larger
on
> > > > >average.
> > > >
> > > > First of all, I never said that they had to be luxo-barges. Hyundai,
> Kia
> > > and
> > > > Saturn all sell medium sized SUVs that are reasonablly priced and
> > > realistically
> > > > equipped. Just because some people need (and yes, I mean NEED) an
> > > Excursion
> > > > doesn't mean we all do. Secondly, take a look at how large sedans in
> the
> > > 50s,
> > > > 60s and 70s were. Not exactly Jetta-sized. Third, the most popular
> > vehicle
> > > type
> > > > in America for most of that time-period was the station wagon. And
the
> > > vast
> > > > majority of SUVs today are little more than station wagons with more
> > > ground
> > > > clearence. So you can quit this high and mighty "our parents didn't
> need
> > > it"
> > > > bull****. In the 21 years I've been alive, I've played hockey,
> baseball
> > > and
> > > > football and taken martial arts. Same with my brother, and we
usually
> > > > car-pooled with other team-members/classmates. 7 or 8 kids +
> > > > hockey/baseball/football gear doesn't sit well in something the size
> of
> > a
> > > > Passat. And forget about all the times my mother carted us in groups
> of
> > 5
> > > or
> > > > more to the beach, the mall, etc..., or my dogs. We NEEDED the
space,
> we
> > > USED
> > > > the space. In 2001 when we didn't need the huge vehicles as much, we
> > > > down-sized. My mother traded in her Expedition for an RX300, which
is
> > > > Camry/ES300 based. It still has AWD and ground clearence which we
USE
> on
> > > trips
> > > > to Mammoth in the snow, it still has room for luggage and/or my
dogs.
> > But
> > > it
> > > > isn't a killer.
> > > >
> > > > >More proof that
> > > > >growing up in front of the television makes you soft in the head.
> > > >
> > > > Yea, that must be it...
> > > > Steve Grauman
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Nope, but my dad did.

--
Kent
1987 VW GTI 8V, original owner, 220,000+ miles

"D. Dub" > wrote in message
news:1YW3d.483123$gE.380681@pd7tw3no...
> Hey Kent,
>
> Did you walk to school in 5 feet of snow, every day, 367 days a year,
uphill
> both ways?
>
>
> "Kent" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Tell me you didn't write this compelling rebuttal with a straight face.
> >
> > --
> > Kent
> > 1987 VW GTI 8V, original owner, 220,000+ miles
> >
> > "D. Dub" > wrote in message
> > news:SBW3d.465410$M95.191639@pd7tw1no...
> > > trips to the beach, mall, and Mammoth DO constitute
> > > a NEED if you are a healthy well adjusted person.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Kent" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > Look sport, somewhere between 21 years old and maturity you'll
> hopefully
> > > > begin to realize that trips to the beach, mall, and Mammoth don't
> > > constitute
> > > > a NEED. Just trust me on this one. But I'm glad to hear that you're
an
> > > > active little tike; it'll keep you away from the glass teat (aka
TV).
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Kent
> > > > 1987 VW GTI 8V, original owner, 220,000+ miles
> > > >
> > > > "Steve Grauman" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > >Somehow, our parents, and our parent's parents, "made due"
without
> > > these
> > > > > >leather clad, bechromed behemoths, and their families were larger
> on
> > > > > >average.
> > > > >
> > > > > First of all, I never said that they had to be luxo-barges.
Hyundai,
> > Kia
> > > > and
> > > > > Saturn all sell medium sized SUVs that are reasonablly priced and
> > > > realistically
> > > > > equipped. Just because some people need (and yes, I mean NEED) an
> > > > Excursion
> > > > > doesn't mean we all do. Secondly, take a look at how large sedans
in
> > the
> > > > 50s,
> > > > > 60s and 70s were. Not exactly Jetta-sized. Third, the most popular
> > > vehicle
> > > > type
> > > > > in America for most of that time-period was the station wagon. And
> the
> > > > vast
> > > > > majority of SUVs today are little more than station wagons with
more
> > > > ground
> > > > > clearence. So you can quit this high and mighty "our parents
didn't
> > need
> > > > it"
> > > > > bull****. In the 21 years I've been alive, I've played hockey,
> > baseball
> > > > and
> > > > > football and taken martial arts. Same with my brother, and we
> usually
> > > > > car-pooled with other team-members/classmates. 7 or 8 kids +
> > > > > hockey/baseball/football gear doesn't sit well in something the
size
> > of
> > > a
> > > > > Passat. And forget about all the times my mother carted us in
groups
> > of
> > > 5
> > > > or
> > > > > more to the beach, the mall, etc..., or my dogs. We NEEDED the
> space,
> > we
> > > > USED
> > > > > the space. In 2001 when we didn't need the huge vehicles as much,
we
> > > > > down-sized. My mother traded in her Expedition for an RX300, which
> is
> > > > > Camry/ES300 based. It still has AWD and ground clearence which we
> USE
> > on
> > > > trips
> > > > > to Mammoth in the snow, it still has room for luggage and/or my
> dogs.
> > > But
> > > > it
> > > > > isn't a killer.
> > > > >
> > > > > >More proof that
> > > > > >growing up in front of the television makes you soft in the head.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yea, that must be it...
> > > > > Steve Grauman
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

"D. Dub" > wrote in message
news:0zW3d.465387$M95.36121@pd7tw1no...
> Bull****...they bought massive, gas guzzling station wagons with beautiful
> fake woodgrain sides and stacked the children in the back.
>

I like the image you stirred in my mind...kids being loaded like cordwood!
Funny!!

We had a few of those wagons, but Dad never was too keen on the fake wood.

It isn't too far from the truth. I remember sitting in the back of big wagons
when I was a kid in the 60's. 4 or 5 of us could fit back there. We all would
have been shot out the window if there was ever a collision, yet here I am to
talk about it.

--
Tony Bad

02 Jetta Wagon
01 Eurovan MV
91 Jetta 1.6 Diesel
86 Jetta
79 Rabbit 1.5 Diesel (semi-retired for now)
Schwinn Continental 10 Speed
Radio Flyer Pedal Car (my daughter made me add this)

"Kent" > wrote in message
...
> Look sport, somewhere between 21 years old and maturity you'll hopefully
> begin to realize that trips to the beach, mall, and Mammoth don't constitute
> a NEED. Just trust me on this one. But I'm glad to hear that you're an
> active little tike; it'll keep you away from the glass teat (aka TV).
>
> --
> Kent
> 1987 VW GTI 8V, original owner, 220,000+ miles
>

While you are right that these may not be a "need", is "need" the only thing you
look for in a car? Was each and every one of those 220,000+ miles (nice job by
the way!) driven because they were "needed". I bet you, just like most folks,
take a lot of trips that are for reasons other than need. If some like to make
that trip in a vehicle that has fancy leather seats and a DVD player and such,
who am I to judge. I live in a glass house...so I am not throwing any stones.

--
Tony Bad

02 Jetta Wagon
01 Eurovan MV
91 Jetta 1.6 Diesel
86 Jetta
79 Rabbit 1.5 Diesel (semi-retired for now)
Schwinn Continental 10 Speed
Radio Flyer Pedal Car (my daughter made me add this)

"Kent" > wrote in message >...
> Look sport, somewhere between 21 years old and maturity you'll hopefully
> begin to realize that trips to the beach, mall, and Mammoth don't constitute
> a NEED.

Kent, they constitute a need as much as just about any "need" considered in
purchasing a vehicle--it's entirely possible to live without a vehicle at all,
as millions of people across the planet do it every day. Some lifestyles,
however, require a vehicle (including most US-based lifestyles). Once you
accept that "need" for a vehicle is lifestyle-derived, it becomes a question
of what vehicle is necessary to lead a particular lifestyle. In the case of
the lifestyle described, something bigger than a Jetta is necessary;
I will admit to being young enough to remember my father deciding on
a Plymouth Grand Voyager for similar reasons--we were making regular
trips to snow country, and we (i.e. my parents) wanted a vehicle that
could comfortably accommodate two adults, two children, and the
assorted crap that goes along with family travel. I recall that he paid
for the upgrade from a bench to 'captain's chairs" (along with other
associated trim upgrades about which he didn't care) simply to keep
my brother and me separated during those trips.

Now, the question raised by a lot of family vehicle purchases is one
of whether or not a given lifestyle requires a particular style of
vehicle, ignoring the status-symbol issues associated with maintaining
a given lifestyle. The practicality of some SUVs, in comparison with
minivans or wagons, becomes quite questionable when a Suburban
has the same number of seatbelts as a Voyager (er, or at least some
member of the GM SUV family; I forget which is which). If you need
the ability to tow really large stuff, then the seating difference might
be less important than the towing capacity; if you do regularly carpool
with several kids, the cargo space might be warranted (although a
Passat with a Thule box might also suffice).

I think the issue that a lot of "SUV haters" have is the driver who
purchases and regularly drives a full-size SUV without ever using
the capabilities that would justify that purchase (i.e. filling it up
with people and stuff, significant-duty towing, going into
terrain where a car won't make it, etc), as well as a misunderstanding
of when those capabilities are necessary (hint: I live in Vermont, I
commute 30 miles each way to and from work, and I work at a ski
area that receives a *lot* of snow each year as well as a fair amount
of other road-disturbing weather; I don't need AWD or 4WD, although
I would really like to have that option ten or twelve days a year; I did
not get stuck at all last year driving a slightly lowered 1991 GTI).

It is quite true that old-style station wagons were a lot bigger in
interior space than what we have available today in the station wagon
space while also being less safe; however, I'd challenge anyone who
claims that an old-school station wagon provided a better transport
mechanism than a minivan. You might not be able to pile in as
many passengers due to modern safety considerations, but the same
is true of most SUVs (which also have other safety disadvantages
such as balance and weight); if you need to carry more passengers,
you should be looking at full-size vans (which the government has
recently decided are unsafe because they don't handle like cars, but
that's a mostly-separate issue; they're certainly not a lot, if any, worse
than SUVs).

As far as the Toureg, I'd like to have one--it's got pretty good towing
capacity (almost two A2s), good offroad capability (something a lot
of SUVs lack off-the-shelf), and the build quality has gotten excellent
reviews. On the other hand, I'd not be able to justify one; as I said, I'd
only really use the AWD capability a few days a year, and I couldn't
justify getting a uber-expensive SUV as an offroad toy, especially as
I can't afford to pick up offroading as a new hobby to begin with.

--Kevin
(who is now wondering why he bothered to wander into the thread
anyhow)

> "Steve Grauman" > wrote in message
> ...
> > >Somehow, our parents, and our parent's parents, "made due" without these
> > >leather clad, bechromed behemoths, and their families were larger on
> > >average.
> >
> > First of all, I never said that they had to be luxo-barges. Hyundai, Kia
> and
> > Saturn all sell medium sized SUVs that are reasonablly priced and
> realistically
> > equipped. Just because some people need (and yes, I mean NEED) an
> Excursion
> > doesn't mean we all do. Secondly, take a look at how large sedans in the
> 50s,
> > 60s and 70s were. Not exactly Jetta-sized. Third, the most popular vehicle
> type
> > in America for most of that time-period was the station wagon. And the
> vast
> > majority of SUVs today are little more than station wagons with more
> ground
> > clearence. So you can quit this high and mighty "our parents didn't need
> it"
> > bull****. In the 21 years I've been alive, I've played hockey, baseball
> and
> > football and taken martial arts. Same with my brother, and we usually
> > car-pooled with other team-members/classmates. 7 or 8 kids +
> > hockey/baseball/football gear doesn't sit well in something the size of a
> > Passat. And forget about all the times my mother carted us in groups of 5
> or
> > more to the beach, the mall, etc..., or my dogs. We NEEDED the space, we
> USED
> > the space. In 2001 when we didn't need the huge vehicles as much, we
> > down-sized. My mother traded in her Expedition for an RX300, which is
> > Camry/ES300 based. It still has AWD and ground clearence which we USE on
> trips
> > to Mammoth in the snow, it still has room for luggage and/or my dogs. But
> it
> > isn't a killer.
> >
> > >More proof that
> > >growing up in front of the television makes you soft in the head.
> >
> > Yea, that must be it...
> > Steve Grauman

Kevin, I agree with almost everything you said (including your sentiment
regarding the wisdom of wandering into this thread).

--
Kent
1987 VW GTI 8V, original owner, 220,000+ miles

"Kevin 'Sparty' Broderick" > wrote in message
om...
> "Kent" > wrote in message
>...
> > Look sport, somewhere between 21 years old and maturity you'll hopefully
> > begin to realize that trips to the beach, mall, and Mammoth don't
constitute
> > a NEED.
>
> Kent, they constitute a need as much as just about any "need" considered
in
> purchasing a vehicle--it's entirely possible to live without a vehicle at
all,
> as millions of people across the planet do it every day. Some lifestyles,
> however, require a vehicle (including most US-based lifestyles). Once you
> accept that "need" for a vehicle is lifestyle-derived, it becomes a
question
> of what vehicle is necessary to lead a particular lifestyle. In the case
of
> the lifestyle described, something bigger than a Jetta is necessary;
> I will admit to being young enough to remember my father deciding on
> a Plymouth Grand Voyager for similar reasons--we were making regular
> trips to snow country, and we (i.e. my parents) wanted a vehicle that
> could comfortably accommodate two adults, two children, and the
> assorted crap that goes along with family travel. I recall that he paid
> for the upgrade from a bench to 'captain's chairs" (along with other
> associated trim upgrades about which he didn't care) simply to keep
> my brother and me separated during those trips.
>
> Now, the question raised by a lot of family vehicle purchases is one
> of whether or not a given lifestyle requires a particular style of
> vehicle, ignoring the status-symbol issues associated with maintaining
> a given lifestyle. The practicality of some SUVs, in comparison with
> minivans or wagons, becomes quite questionable when a Suburban
> has the same number of seatbelts as a Voyager (er, or at least some
> member of the GM SUV family; I forget which is which). If you need
> the ability to tow really large stuff, then the seating difference might
> be less important than the towing capacity; if you do regularly carpool
> with several kids, the cargo space might be warranted (although a
> Passat with a Thule box might also suffice).
>
> I think the issue that a lot of "SUV haters" have is the driver who
> purchases and regularly drives a full-size SUV without ever using
> the capabilities that would justify that purchase (i.e. filling it up
> with people and stuff, significant-duty towing, going into
> terrain where a car won't make it, etc), as well as a misunderstanding
> of when those capabilities are necessary (hint: I live in Vermont, I
> commute 30 miles each way to and from work, and I work at a ski
> area that receives a *lot* of snow each year as well as a fair amount
> of other road-disturbing weather; I don't need AWD or 4WD, although
> I would really like to have that option ten or twelve days a year; I did
> not get stuck at all last year driving a slightly lowered 1991 GTI).
>
> It is quite true that old-style station wagons were a lot bigger in
> interior space than what we have available today in the station wagon
> space while also being less safe; however, I'd challenge anyone who
> claims that an old-school station wagon provided a better transport
> mechanism than a minivan. You might not be able to pile in as
> many passengers due to modern safety considerations, but the same
> is true of most SUVs (which also have other safety disadvantages
> such as balance and weight); if you need to carry more passengers,
> you should be looking at full-size vans (which the government has
> recently decided are unsafe because they don't handle like cars, but
> that's a mostly-separate issue; they're certainly not a lot, if any, worse
> than SUVs).
>
> As far as the Toureg, I'd like to have one--it's got pretty good towing
> capacity (almost two A2s), good offroad capability (something a lot
> of SUVs lack off-the-shelf), and the build quality has gotten excellent
> reviews. On the other hand, I'd not be able to justify one; as I said,
I'd
> only really use the AWD capability a few days a year, and I couldn't
> justify getting a uber-expensive SUV as an offroad toy, especially as
> I can't afford to pick up offroading as a new hobby to begin with.
>
> --Kevin
> (who is now wondering why he bothered to wander into the thread
> anyhow)
>
> > "Steve Grauman" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > >Somehow, our parents, and our parent's parents, "made due" without
these
> > > >leather clad, bechromed behemoths, and their families were larger on
> > > >average.
> > >
> > > First of all, I never said that they had to be luxo-barges. Hyundai,
Kia
> > and
> > > Saturn all sell medium sized SUVs that are reasonablly priced and
> > realistically
> > > equipped. Just because some people need (and yes, I mean NEED) an
> > Excursion
> > > doesn't mean we all do. Secondly, take a look at how large sedans in
the
> > 50s,
> > > 60s and 70s were. Not exactly Jetta-sized. Third, the most popular
vehicle
> > type
> > > in America for most of that time-period was the station wagon. And the
> > vast
> > > majority of SUVs today are little more than station wagons with more
> > ground
> > > clearence. So you can quit this high and mighty "our parents didn't
need
> > it"
> > > bull****. In the 21 years I've been alive, I've played hockey,
baseball
> > and
> > > football and taken martial arts. Same with my brother, and we usually
> > > car-pooled with other team-members/classmates. 7 or 8 kids +
> > > hockey/baseball/football gear doesn't sit well in something the size
of a
> > > Passat. And forget about all the times my mother carted us in groups
of 5
> > or
> > > more to the beach, the mall, etc..., or my dogs. We NEEDED the space,
we
> > USED
> > > the space. In 2001 when we didn't need the huge vehicles as much, we
> > > down-sized. My mother traded in her Expedition for an RX300, which is
> > > Camry/ES300 based. It still has AWD and ground clearence which we USE
on
> > trips
> > > to Mammoth in the snow, it still has room for luggage and/or my dogs.
But
> > it
> > > isn't a killer.
> > >
> > > >More proof that
> > > >growing up in front of the television makes you soft in the head.
> > >
> > > Yea, that must be it...
> > > Steve Grauman

Tony, you're absolutely right, my car means more to me than just utilitarian
transportation. But I also clearly understand that the way I live, what I
drive, and how I consume affects everyone around me. We all live in glass
houses, if you will, and many of us are throwing rocks without any
consideration for where they land. When I hear a 21 year old saying that
group trips to the mall, beach, and skiing constitute a NEED, something
needs to be said. The mantra "it's a free country" is being twisted to mean,
"I do what I want, take what I want, everyone else be damned". This is a
remarkably anti-social attitude from the same people that often profess to
be so well-adjusted and sociable that they need a luxury SUV to cart around
an ever-expanding circle of family and friends. You and I have every right
to judge, we need to judge. Society makes collective judgments everyday, and
they form the basis of our civil society.

--
Kent
1987 VW GTI 8V, original owner, 220,000+ miles

"Tony Bad" > wrote in message
t...
>
> "Kent" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Look sport, somewhere between 21 years old and maturity you'll hopefully
> > begin to realize that trips to the beach, mall, and Mammoth don't
constitute
> > a NEED. Just trust me on this one. But I'm glad to hear that you're an
> > active little tike; it'll keep you away from the glass teat (aka TV).
> >
> > --
> > Kent
> > 1987 VW GTI 8V, original owner, 220,000+ miles
> >
>
> While you are right that these may not be a "need", is "need" the only
thing you
> look for in a car? Was each and every one of those 220,000+ miles (nice
job by
> the way!) driven because they were "needed". I bet you, just like most
folks,
> take a lot of trips that are for reasons other than need. If some like to
make
> that trip in a vehicle that has fancy leather seats and a DVD player and
such,
> who am I to judge. I live in a glass house...so I am not throwing any
stones.
>
> --
> Tony Bad
>
> 02 Jetta Wagon
> 01 Eurovan MV
> 91 Jetta 1.6 Diesel
> 86 Jetta
> 79 Rabbit 1.5 Diesel (semi-retired for now)
> Schwinn Continental 10 Speed
> Radio Flyer Pedal Car (my daughter made me add this)
>
>
>
>
>

"Kent" > wrote in message
...
> Tony, you're absolutely right, my car means more to me than just utilitarian
> transportation. But I also clearly understand that the way I live, what I
> drive, and how I consume affects everyone around me. We all live in glass
> houses, if you will, and many of us are throwing rocks without any
> consideration for where they land. When I hear a 21 year old saying that
> group trips to the mall, beach, and skiing constitute a NEED, something
> needs to be said. The mantra "it's a free country" is being twisted to mean,
> "I do what I want, take what I want, everyone else be damned". This is a
> remarkably anti-social attitude from the same people that often profess to
> be so well-adjusted and sociable that they need a luxury SUV to cart around
> an ever-expanding circle of family and friends. You and I have every right
> to judge, we need to judge. Society makes collective judgments everyday, and
> they form the basis of our civil society.
>
> --
> Kent
> 1987 VW GTI 8V, original owner, 220,000+ miles
>

I agree with what you describe as a twisting of the meaning of a "free country".
There are a lot of selfish people out there. I am just not sure that driving an
SUV is an accurate indicator if one is or is not selfish or anti-social. I am
sure there are many cases where your assessment is dead on, but I am willing to
bet there are as many where the characterization does not apply. I see plenty of
people driving VW's, Hondas, and other small fuel efficient cars that exhibit
extreme anti-social behavior by driving in a manner that puts others in danger.
Few of us are not selfish in some manner, yet we are often quick to point out
the faults of others. I am certainly guilty of this...perhaps you are not.

Does that GTI still have the original clutch? I parked my rabbit with 293,000
miles, but was proud that I got about 220,000 on the original clutch.
--
Tony Bad

02 Jetta Wagon
01 Eurovan MV
91 Jetta 1.6 Diesel
86 Jetta
79 Rabbit 1.5 Diesel (semi-retired for now)
Schwinn Continental 10 Speed
Radio Flyer Pedal Car (my daughter made me add this)

Agreed. As for my clutch, I'm currently in the process of replacing it for
the second time, as one of the three metal clips on the release plate broke
off, jamming it up. Odd failure I think. I replaced the original clutch at
around 130,000 miles as a matter of routine maintenance since I had the car
fairly well disassembled to replace the pedal bracket, shift linkage,
catalytic converter, and various other bits and pieces. Once I pulled the
original clutch out, though, it looked like it could have gone quite a bit
longer.

--
Kent
1987 VW GTI 8V, original owner, 220,000+ miles

"Tony Bad" > wrote in message
t...
>
> "Kent" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Tony, you're absolutely right, my car means more to me than just
utilitarian
> > transportation. But I also clearly understand that the way I live, what
I
> > drive, and how I consume affects everyone around me. We all live in
glass
> > houses, if you will, and many of us are throwing rocks without any
> > consideration for where they land. When I hear a 21 year old saying that
> > group trips to the mall, beach, and skiing constitute a NEED, something
> > needs to be said. The mantra "it's a free country" is being twisted to
mean,
> > "I do what I want, take what I want, everyone else be damned". This is a
> > remarkably anti-social attitude from the same people that often profess
to
> > be so well-adjusted and sociable that they need a luxury SUV to cart
around
> > an ever-expanding circle of family and friends. You and I have every
right
> > to judge, we need to judge. Society makes collective judgments everyday,
and
> > they form the basis of our civil society.
> >
> > --
> > Kent
> > 1987 VW GTI 8V, original owner, 220,000+ miles
> >
>
> I agree with what you describe as a twisting of the meaning of a "free
country".
> There are a lot of selfish people out there. I am just not sure that
driving an
> SUV is an accurate indicator if one is or is not selfish or anti-social. I
am
> sure there are many cases where your assessment is dead on, but I am
willing to
> bet there are as many where the characterization does not apply. I see
plenty of
> people driving VW's, Hondas, and other small fuel efficient cars that
exhibit
> extreme anti-social behavior by driving in a manner that puts others in
danger.
> Few of us are not selfish in some manner, yet we are often quick to point
out
> the faults of others. I am certainly guilty of this...perhaps you are not.
>
> Does that GTI still have the original clutch? I parked my rabbit with
293,000
> miles, but was proud that I got about 220,000 on the original clutch.
> --
> Tony Bad
>
> 02 Jetta Wagon
> 01 Eurovan MV
> 91 Jetta 1.6 Diesel
> 86 Jetta
> 79 Rabbit 1.5 Diesel (semi-retired for now)
> Schwinn Continental 10 Speed
> Radio Flyer Pedal Car (my daughter made me add this)
>
>