M30 air intake manifold

On Apr 26, 12:01 pm, "Bill" > wrote:
> "noobiedoobie" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 25, 11:15 am, "Bill" > wrote:
> > > > I can see where theintakemanifoldis leaking. Right at the 6
> > > > connections where it meets up with the engine block the seals have
> > > > stripped away. Looks and feels like cardboard now, but I'm sure they
> > > > were originally a yellow coloured rubber of some sort. I haven't done
> > > > any work on the car yet except unplugged the ICV while the engine was
> > > > running to determine if the ICV was contributing to the rough idle (I
> > > > mean the car is shaking, man), but this had no effect, so I will have
> > > > to replace all of the hoses and the spark plugs, but first I will
> > > > reseal theairintakemanifold. Any idea on how to change the spark
> > > > plugs without taking apart the engine?
>
> > > The spark plugs are on the passenger side of the engine. You are looking
> at
> > > the injectors. You'll need to remove theintakemanifoldto replace the
> > > gasket. I believe there is a support bracket and 12 nuts. While you're
> at
> > > it, get the injectors cleaned. They'll be easier to remove when theintake
> > > is off the engine. The six spark plugs take about 30 minutes to change.
> > > Check hewww.realoem.comIt gives a full part breakout of each section
> > > of the car with part numbers.
>
> > > Bill in Omaha
> > > '86 535i
>
> > Hi Bill. Believe me, I have memorized the diagrams on that site.
> > Thank you. Do I just pull the suppressors off the plugs and then
> > unscrew the plugs out? Lucky for me the ignition wiring is all brand
> > new! Thats a couple hundred bucks right there, and if the rotor is
> > also new, then damn doobie scoobie, I paid only 300 which is less than
> > the cost of just these components alone! With regards to the
> > injectors, do they just screw out as well? I plan on using Simple
> > Green for cleaning everything in the engine. Stuff is awesome, I used
> > to use it to clean injection molds back in the day. Advantage: You
> > can drink the stuff if you were thirsty and it would supply vitamins
> > to your body, and yet it would clean the bejesus out of anything
> > (except glass, but they have one variety of Simple Green for glass now)
>
> Yeah, the plug boots just pull straight off. Just don't overtighten the new
> plugs. The injectors are best removed with theintakeoff the engine, just
> in case a pintle cap pops off an injector (it would fall onto the valve
> below and become an expedition to get it out!). Just a safe bet. The
> injectors just push into theintakeand are held in by a rubber o-ring. The
> fuel rail runs across the top of the injectors and is held to them by an
> o-ring and a U-clip. I use a small screwdriver or long-nose pliers to get
> these off. Sometimes you can just use fingers if they're long enough. The
> fuel rail is bolted to theintakeby 2 10mm bolts (on mine). Don't forget
> these or the rail will not move up enough to get the injectors out. The
> space is very tight under there, so be careful of dropping a clip. I have a
> full spare set from the junkyard, just in case. This all can be done without
> removing theintake, BUT... the whole job is easier if theintakeis off the
> car. You will have to disconnect the fuel hose from the fuel rail (spillage)
> and the harness from the injectors (mark the injector number first!). I
> believe the harness will disconnect below themanifoldand the injector
> harness will come out attached to the injectors. Be carful to label the
> other harness connectors on top when you disconnect them from sensors and
> senders. Otherwise, you'll get funny readings on the cluster when it all
> goes back together. This can be time consuming, but saves a lot of anguish.
> Plus you'll get the added benefit of making sure the thing is sealed right
> the first time. I'd replace all theintake-to-head gaskets (6 of them). If
> one is gone, good bet others are going. I did all this on an m20 325is. WHAT
> A BITCH doing it on the car! I replaced all 6 injectors on my '86 535i,intakeon the car, in less than 45 minutes. Your big issue is the #6intake
> gasket replacement.
>
> Bill in Omaha
> '86 535i- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Hey Bill! This is exactly the question I had for ya today. I was up
until midnight trying to figure out how to get to the intake manifold
because there is a wiring harness and a fuel rail blocking the intake
hex bolts. You're right, there is hardly any room to maneouvre in
there. I couldn't locate the two 10 mm bolts - are these the ones
closest to windshield? I separated the cylindrical object at the end
of the fuel rail thinking it was the gas vapour ventilation return
because it had a vacuum hose attached, but found out after slight fuel
spillage that fuel was going through this! This can't be the fuel
filter, can it? Anyway, I gave up because my baby was crying upstairs
(room on top of the garage where I was working), rubbed on some Simple
Green and off to bed. But I couldn't sleep and returned quietly to
the car at 4 AM and spent two hours trying to find some type of
connection that I could undo to remove the obstructions to the intake
gaskets. So, from what I can gather I need to disconnect the fuel
rail from the injectors first via the U-clip? And then how does the
wiring harness go away? This is really the biggest obstacle...if I
could get that damn harness off, I would be able to at least see all
of the gaskets. Yes, you're right, #6 is completely hidden by the
wiring inlet from the windshield side.

On Apr 27, 10:04 am, noobiedoobie > wrote:

> I separated the cylindrical object at the end
> of the fuel rail thinking it was the gas vapour ventilation return
> because it had a vacuum hose attached, but found out after slight fuel
> spillage that fuel was going through this! This can't be the fuel
> filter, can it?

No. It is the fuel pressure regulator.

Get a Bentley manual so you know what the hell you're doing in there.
It may cost you $50, but it will save you that much in aggravation and
time, if not money paid to *redo the job properly*, the first time you
use it.
--
C.R. Krieger
(Been there; done that)

"E28 Guy©" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On Apr 27, 10:04 am, noobiedoobie > wrote:
>
> > I separated the cylindrical object at the end
> > of the fuel rail thinking it was the gas vapour ventilation return
> > because it had a vacuum hose attached, but found out after slight fuel
> > spillage that fuel was going through this! This can't be the fuel
> > filter, can it?
>
> No. It is the fuel pressure regulator.
>
> Get a Bentley manual so you know what the hell you're doing in there.
> It may cost you $50, but it will save you that much in aggravation and
> time, if not money paid to *redo the job properly*, the first time you
> use it.
> --
> C.R. Krieger
> (Been there; done that)
>

I've agree with Krieger here. It's much safer to get the Bentley manual. My
years of experience still call for the Bentley lookups from time to time.
Besides, it gives pictures and drawings. The day I bought my 3er and my 5er,
I ordered or went to the bookstore and got a Bentley manual. That's like
purchase #2 after the car. It will take the same amount of time to get the
manual as it will to order the parts you'll need. They'll arrive close to
the same time and you'll appreciate it.

Leave the fuel rail on the manifold. Remove the manifold first. The harness
disconnect is round (barrel-type) and below the manifold on the drivers
side. Check this out for some quick pics:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1982-...anifold_W0QQit
emZ170105106472QQihZ007QQcategoryZ36474QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem It's similar
enough to get the idea. The injectors are removed, but you can see the
holes. Send me an e-mail and can send a few better pics to you directly.


Bill in Omaha
'86 535i

On Apr 27, 3:34 pm, "Bill" > wrote:
> "E28 Guy©" > wrote in message
>
> oups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 27, 10:04 am, noobiedoobie > wrote:
>
> > > I separated the cylindrical object at the end
> > > of the fuel rail thinking it was the gas vapour ventilation return
> > > because it had a vacuum hose attached, but found out after slight fuel
> > > spillage that fuel was going through this! This can't be the fuel
> > > filter, can it?
>
> > No. It is the fuel pressure regulator.
>
> > Get a Bentley manual so you know what the hell you're doing in there.
> > It may cost you $50, but it will save you that much in aggravation and
> > time, if not money paid to *redo the job properly*, the first time you
> > use it.
> > --
> > C.R. Krieger
> > (Been there; done that)
>
> I've agree with Krieger here. It's much safer to get the Bentley manual. My
> years of experience still call for the Bentley lookups from time to time.
> Besides, it gives pictures and drawings. The day I bought my 3er and my 5er,
> I ordered or went to the bookstore and got a Bentley manual. That's like
> purchase #2 after the car. It will take the same amount of time to get the
> manual as it will to order the parts you'll need. They'll arrive close to
> the same time and you'll appreciate it.
>
> Leave the fuel rail on themanifold. Remove themanifoldfirst. The harness
> disconnect is round (barrel-type) and below themanifoldon the drivers
> side. Check this out for some quick pics:http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1982-...ntake-manifold...
> emZ170105106472QQihZ007QQcategoryZ36474QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem It's similar
> enough to get the idea. The injectors are removed, but you can see the
> holes. Send me an e-mail and can send a few better pics to you directly.
>
>
> Bill in Omaha
> '86 535i- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I got the wiring harness off, but there were several connections under
the intake manifold, one of which was the round barrel type electrical
connection you mentioned. Can I now just disconnect the manifold and
replace the gaskets with the fuel rail right on there? I hope so (the
less dismantled the better, although I would like to fix the oil leak
now that I have the engine compartment laid out.) And do you
recommend I clean out the air flow meter and the throttle (there is a
bit of brown scum) by spraying some degreaser or will this damage
anything on the insides?

I got the wiring harness off, but there were several connections under
the intake manifold, one of which was the round barrel type electrical
connection you mentioned. Can I now just disconnect the manifold and
replace the gaskets with the fuel rail right on there? I hope so (the
less dismantled the better, although I would like to fix the oil leak
now that I have the engine compartment laid out.) And do you
recommend I clean out the air flow meter and the throttle (there is a
bit of brown scum) by spraying some degreaser or will this damage
anything on the insides?
-----

12x 13mm nuts on manifold, 1x nut on the maniflold support and it should
lift out. Use caution and watch for parts that may drop into the head as the
intake side will be exposed. Also the 6 intake gaskets will be visible and
may be stuck to the manifold or the head. Of course #6 (closest to the
firewall) will be destroyed already. I recommend keeping one good one for a
tracing pattern just in case (I do!). There will be some air hoses threaded
in there.
It's safe to clean the air flow meter (AFM), but DO NOT SPRAY THE TEMP
SENSOR in there (it's a nub in the flow path. I just sprayed a little and
wiped it out until it was clean and the door swung smoothly. Free motion is
essential, NO BINDING. Flex all the connecting rubber to check for cracks.
In a pinch, I wrapped black plastic electrical tape around them until I got
another piece. It will seal, but only as a temp fix. The goal here is NO AIR
LEAKS. Replace all those DAMNED crimp clamps with screw clamps... you'll
appreciate it later when they get loose. Zip ties work in a pinch. Notice I
have a lot of pinch fixes? LOL! So do these other guys. Also, a temp gasket
can be made from the cardboard backing from a note pad. It's not too thick
and is compressed like the gasket we should use. I once used one during a
highway trip of 1000 miles and it was still good 3 years later when I sold
the car.

Bill in Omaha
'86 535i

On Apr 30, 7:06 pm, "Bill" > wrote:
> I got the wiring harness off, but there were several connections under
> theintakemanifold, one of which was the round barrel type electrical
> connection you mentioned. Can I now just disconnect themanifoldand
> replace the gaskets with the fuel rail right on there? I hope so (the
> less dismantled the better, although I would like to fix the oil leak
> now that I have the engine compartment laid out.) And do you
> recommend I clean out theairflow meter and the throttle (there is a
> bit of brown scum) by spraying some degreaser or will this damage
> anything on the insides?
> -----
>
> 12x 13mm nuts onmanifold, 1x nut on the maniflold support and it should
> lift out. Use caution and watch for parts that may drop into the head as theintakeside will be exposed. Also the 6intakegaskets will be visible and
> may be stuck to themanifoldor the head. Of course #6 (closest to the
> firewall) will be destroyed already. I recommend keeping one good one for a
> tracing pattern just in case (I do!). There will be someairhoses threaded
> in there.
> It's safe to clean theairflow meter (AFM), but DO NOT SPRAY THE TEMP
> SENSOR in there (it's a nub in the flow path. I just sprayed a little and
> wiped it out until it was clean and the door swung smoothly. Free motion is
> essential, NO BINDING. Flex all the connecting rubber to check for cracks.
> In a pinch, I wrapped black plastic electrical tape around them until I got
> another piece. It will seal, but only as a temp fix. The goal here is NOAIR
> LEAKS. Replace all those DAMNED crimp clamps with screw clamps... you'll
> appreciate it later when they get loose. Zip ties work in a pinch. Notice I
> have a lot of pinch fixes? LOL! So do these other guys. Also, a temp gasket
> can be made from the cardboard backing from a note pad. It's not too thick
> and is compressed like the gasket we should use. I once used one during a
> highway trip of 1000 miles and it was still good 3 years later when I sold
> the car.
>
> Bill in Omaha
> '86 535i

Bill, I know of a person who has a M50 engine in a 1994 525is. It has
been sitting in his garage for a year because the engine will overheat
if he turns it on. He took it to a dealer before he placed it in his
garage and here is the report from the dealer:

'Started vehicle cold. Found running rough for first few minutes
beforte warming up. Perfromed short test, No faults found in DME.
Removed DME to check for corrosion or moisture . ok. Check ignition
coils for cracks or defects. ok. Reoved spark plugs. Performed
compression test. Compression test failed #6 cyl first time but passed
second time. During compression test, noticed oil spraying out of cyl
#3. Looked inside and noticed top of piston head covered in oil.
Performed leakdown test ..results:

1=10 2=12 3=35 4=17 5=12 6=17

cyl #3 leakdown not acceptable. Heard air coming out of dipstick tube
during #3 leakdown test. Vehile requires engine rebuild or
replacement."

Now, I am very skeptical about the conclusion that the engine needs
replacement. My question is: would a gasket change take care of the
oil leak problem here in cylinder 3?

On 2 May 2007 12:18:10 -0700, noobiedoobie > wrote:

>On Apr 30, 7:06 pm, "Bill" > wrote:
>> I got the wiring harness off, but there were several connections under
>> theintakemanifold, one of which was the round barrel type electrical
>> connection you mentioned. Can I now just disconnect themanifoldand
>> replace the gaskets with the fuel rail right on there? I hope so (the
>> less dismantled the better, although I would like to fix the oil leak
>> now that I have the engine compartment laid out.) And do you
>> recommend I clean out theairflow meter and the throttle (there is a
>> bit of brown scum) by spraying some degreaser or will this damage
>> anything on the insides?
>> -----
>>
>> 12x 13mm nuts onmanifold, 1x nut on the maniflold support and it should
>> lift out. Use caution and watch for parts that may drop into the head as theintakeside will be exposed. Also the 6intakegaskets will be visible and
>> may be stuck to themanifoldor the head. Of course #6 (closest to the
>> firewall) will be destroyed already. I recommend keeping one good one for a
>> tracing pattern just in case (I do!). There will be someairhoses threaded
>> in there.
>> It's safe to clean theairflow meter (AFM), but DO NOT SPRAY THE TEMP
>> SENSOR in there (it's a nub in the flow path. I just sprayed a little and
>> wiped it out until it was clean and the door swung smoothly. Free motion is
>> essential, NO BINDING. Flex all the connecting rubber to check for cracks.
>> In a pinch, I wrapped black plastic electrical tape around them until I got
>> another piece. It will seal, but only as a temp fix. The goal here is NOAIR
>> LEAKS. Replace all those DAMNED crimp clamps with screw clamps... you'll
>> appreciate it later when they get loose. Zip ties work in a pinch. Notice I
>> have a lot of pinch fixes? LOL! So do these other guys. Also, a temp gasket
>> can be made from the cardboard backing from a note pad. It's not too thick
>> and is compressed like the gasket we should use. I once used one during a
>> highway trip of 1000 miles and it was still good 3 years later when I sold
>> the car.
>>
>> Bill in Omaha
>> '86 535i
>
>Bill, I know of a person who has a M50 engine in a 1994 525is. It has
>been sitting in his garage for a year because the engine will overheat
>if he turns it on. He took it to a dealer before he placed it in his
>garage and here is the report from the dealer:
>
>'Started vehicle cold. Found running rough for first few minutes
>beforte warming up. Perfromed short test, No faults found in DME.
>Removed DME to check for corrosion or moisture . ok. Check ignition
>coils for cracks or defects. ok. Reoved spark plugs. Performed
>compression test. Compression test failed #6 cyl first time but passed
>second time. During compression test, noticed oil spraying out of cyl
>#3. Looked inside and noticed top of piston head covered in oil.
>Performed leakdown test ..results:
>
>1=10 2=12 3=35 4=17 5=12 6=17
>
>cyl #3 leakdown not acceptable. Heard air coming out of dipstick tube
>during #3 leakdown test. Vehile requires engine rebuild or
>replacement."
>
>Now, I am very skeptical about the conclusion that the engine needs
>replacement. My question is: would a gasket change take care of the
>oil leak problem here in cylinder 3?
>
Doubt it. Air coming from dipstick tube more than often means piston blow-by or
a bore/piston/ring problem.

I would go for a strip down and a physical look at the bore (could be cracked or
scored) Piston (cracked, holes, partial seize?) rings (broken, scuffed, seized
and damaged.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ seems the price unless you do it yourself. I don't think
you can drop the sump on that model????

> Bill, I know of a person who has a M50 engine in a 1994 525is. It has
> been sitting in his garage for a year because the engine will overheat
> if he turns it on. He took it to a dealer before he placed it in his
> garage and here is the report from the dealer:
>
> 'Started vehicle cold. Found running rough for first few minutes
> beforte warming up. Perfromed short test, No faults found in DME.
> Removed DME to check for corrosion or moisture . ok. Check ignition
> coils for cracks or defects. ok. Reoved spark plugs. Performed
> compression test. Compression test failed #6 cyl first time but passed
> second time. During compression test, noticed oil spraying out of cyl
> #3. Looked inside and noticed top of piston head covered in oil.
> Performed leakdown test ..results:
>
> 1=10 2=12 3=35 4=17 5=12 6=17
>
> cyl #3 leakdown not acceptable. Heard air coming out of dipstick tube
> during #3 leakdown test. Vehile requires engine rebuild or
> replacement."
>
> Now, I am very skeptical about the conclusion that the engine needs
> replacement. My question is: would a gasket change take care of the
> oil leak problem here in cylinder 3?
-----

First guess is the rings on #3 have failed, thus the oil. You didn't mention
smoke from the exhaust or anything about coolant, so I can't be more
specific. Either way, I'd remove the head. If the rings need replacing, it
can be done on #3 without removing more than the head and oil pan (I've done
it), i.e. the engine can stay in the car. This will allow for direct
inspection of all the cylinders, walls, and the bottom of the head and
valves. You'll be able to replace nearly anything you need to at this point.
New: head gasket, head bolts, rings #3 (they come as a complete set and I
might just do them all to be safe since it's open), valve cover gasket.
Check the timing chain guides or belt and tensioner, intake-to-head gaskets
if removed. Maybe do the water pump and gasket. No need to replace the
engine. They are built pretty well and this should be rebuildable easily.
You will see the cause of the problem when the head comes off. Unless the
rings gouged the cylinder wall or ruined the piston top (doubtful), this
should be basic R and R. You may need the cam holding tool for the head
removal. Time consuming but not hard, and uses basic tools. Get access to a
Bentley manual first. Oh yeah, what about coolant system?

Bill in Omaha
'86 535i

> wrote in message
...
> On 2 May 2007 12:18:10 -0700, noobiedoobie > wrote:
> > >Now, I am very skeptical about the conclusion that the engine needs
> >replacement. My question is: would a gasket change take care of the
> >oil leak problem here in cylinder 3?
> >
> Doubt it. Air coming from dipstick tube more than often means piston
blow-by or
> a bore/piston/ring problem.
>
> I would go for a strip down and a physical look at the bore (could be
cracked or
> scored) Piston (cracked, holes, partial seize?) rings (broken, scuffed,
seized
> and damaged.
>
> $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ seems the price unless you do it yourself. I don't
think
> you can drop the sump on that model????
-----

Why won't the sump come out? You may have to lift the engine a few inches
first. After parts replacement cost, DIY labor is just time. This would be
best on a lift, but off the ground about 2 feet might do it.

Bill in Omaha
'86 535i

On Wed, 2 May 2007 15:21:08 -0500, "Bill" > wrote:

>
> wrote in message
.. .
>> On 2 May 2007 12:18:10 -0700, noobiedoobie > wrote:
>> > >Now, I am very skeptical about the conclusion that the engine needs
>> >replacement. My question is: would a gasket change take care of the
>> >oil leak problem here in cylinder 3?
>> >
>> Doubt it. Air coming from dipstick tube more than often means piston
>blow-by or
>> a bore/piston/ring problem.
>>
>> I would go for a strip down and a physical look at the bore (could be
>cracked or
>> scored) Piston (cracked, holes, partial seize?) rings (broken, scuffed,
>seized
>> and damaged.
>>
>> $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ seems the price unless you do it yourself. I don't
>think
>> you can drop the sump on that model????
>-----
>
>Why won't the sump come out? You may have to lift the engine a few inches
>first. After parts replacement cost, DIY labor is just time. This would be
>best on a lift, but off the ground about 2 feet might do it.
>
>Bill in Omaha
>'86 535i
>
Just a thought Bill - as you say off the mounts and off the floor maybe with a
bit of fiddling and twisting it probably will come off.