2004 Grand Cherokee Power Window Problem

Hi All,

I seem to have a problem with my rear passenger power window that's
really puzzling. I first noticed it when it would only go down, but
not up, from the rear door switch, and wouldn't move at all from the
driver's door switch. They were calling for rain, so I took apart the
door to disconnect the window from the regulator, and clamped it up.
So, I've been trying to figure out where the problem is, but the
wiring diagram I have in my Haynes manual (1999-2004) doesn't match
the actual wiring on the vehicle. For starters, there's 6 wires, and
the book says there's only 5, and the colors and numbers are all
different. So, figuring out what's supposed to be what is a bit of a
puzzler.

There's a connector between the switch and the motor, so I took that
apart, and measured the voltage there. With the switch in the down
position, I get 14 volts, as expected, and 0 volts with the switch in
neutral. With the switch in the up position, I also get 0 volts. So, I
assumed the problem was the switch. $40 and a trip to the Jeep dealer
later, I have a new switch, and the exact same problem. So, it's not
the motor and it's not the rear switch. There's also no fuse that is
just for this door, so it's not a fuse.

Anyway, I've taken some pictures, and have some voltage measurements.
This picture shows the plug that the switch plugs into:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/b0jangles/3591083030/

And this picture shows the connector between the switch and the motor:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/b0jangles/3590274901/

As you can see, the Green/White and Grey/White wires go to the
connector that connects to the motor. I think the solid green and
solid grey wires go to the driver's door switch, and the red/black
cables go direct to the battery, but I don't know that for sure. With
the car on, connecting the red and black wires gives me 5V, regardless
of where the driver's door switch is. Connecting the solid green and
black wires gives me 14V if the driver's door switch is neutral or
down, and 0V if it's up. That seems weird right off the bat. I would
have expected something more like 0V in neutral, 14V up, -14 down. So,
maybe that's the problem?

Anybody have any ideas or an accurate wiring diagram? What could be
causing this?

Many thanks for any help!

Thanks,
Tom

aetmos wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I seem to have a problem with my rear passenger power window that's
> really puzzling. I first noticed it when it would only go down, but
> not up, from the rear door switch, and wouldn't move at all from the
> driver's door switch. They were calling for rain, so I took apart the
> door to disconnect the window from the regulator, and clamped it up.
> So, I've been trying to figure out where the problem is, but the
> wiring diagram I have in my Haynes manual (1999-2004) doesn't match
> the actual wiring on the vehicle. For starters, there's 6 wires, and
> the book says there's only 5, and the colors and numbers are all
> different. So, figuring out what's supposed to be what is a bit of a
> puzzler.

> Anybody have any ideas or an accurate wiring diagram? What could be
> causing this?

Be very careful!
Starting back in 2001 they moved from using direct copper lines
to a control bus. Your model uses door modules. To be specific,

BCM - Body Control Module (1)
DDM - Driver Door Module (1)
PDM - Passenger Door Module (3)

The most you can test is the switch and motor without a scantool.

Please keep in mind this is from a 2001.


As far as the switch goes, it pins out like this.
___
__| |_
/3 | 2 1\
|6 | 5 4|
----------
switch continuity between pins

OFF 1--2
4--5

Forward 1--6
5--6

Rearward 2--6
4--5

3 is used to power the LED, ignore it.
The wire that feeds it will supply 5v.


Now if you disconnect the power lines running
to the window motor, all it takes is 12V to run
them up or down. They will stop when reaching the limit
and watch your fingers.

The motor wires should be Yellow and Dark Green.

Google for 2001 WJ service manual
There used to be a few copies floating around out there.

--
DougW

Tom,

Recently fixed a similar problem with my son-in-law's 2001 Cherokee
Sport. Check the wires in the boot between the body and the driver's
door. His were brittle and worn after a few thousand door slams, cold
winters, hot summers, etc and were showing bare copper. Plus some
dealer did a real hack job on a previous electrical repair.

I found a service manual online for a 2000 Grand Cherokee and that
helped a lot. I hope my hack job lasts a little longer.

dss

Thank you both for your help. The description of the wiring is very
helpful. I couldn't figure out what that 5V wire was for. LED makes
perfect sense. I think my next step is going to be to try
disconnecting the driver's door switch to see if it's causing some
sort of interference, and then checking the wires in the boot. dss, do
you think that could be the problem, given that the window does go
down, but not up? Is that the same problem that you had? If those
don't work, I guess it's time to buy a scan tool...

Thanks!
Tom

On Jun 2, 9:57*pm, "DougW" > wrote:
> aetmos wrote:
> > Hi All,
>
> > I seem to have a problem with my rear passenger power window that's
> > really puzzling. I first noticed it when it would only go down, but
> > not up, from the rear door switch, and wouldn't move at all from the
> > driver's door switch. They were calling for rain, so I took apart the
> > door to disconnect the window from the regulator, and clamped it up.
> > So, I've been trying to figure out where the problem is, but the
> > wiring diagram I have in my Haynes manual (1999-2004) doesn't match
> > the actual wiring on the vehicle. For starters, there's 6 wires, and
> > the book says there's only 5, and the colors and numbers are all
> > different. So, figuring out what's supposed to be what is a bit of a
> > puzzler.
> > Anybody have any ideas or an accurate wiring diagram? What could be
> > causing this?
>
> Be very careful!
> Starting back in 2001 they moved from using direct copper lines
> to a control bus. Your model uses door modules. *To be specific,
>
> BCM - Body Control Module (1)
> DDM - Driver Door Module (1)
> PDM - Passenger Door Module (3)
>
> The most you can test is the switch and motor without a scantool.
>
> Please keep in mind this is from a 2001.
>
> As far as the switch goes, it pins out like this.
> * * *___
> * __| * |_
> */3 | 2 *1\
> *|6 | 5 *4|
> *----------
> switch * continuity between pins
>
> OFF * * *1--2
> * * * * *4--5
>
> Forward *1--6
> * * * * *5--6
>
> Rearward 2--6
> * * * * *4--5
>
> 3 is used to power the LED, ignore it.
> The wire that feeds it will supply 5v.
>
> Now if you disconnect the power lines running
> to the window motor, all it takes is 12V to run
> them up or down. They will stop when reaching the limit
> and watch your fingers.
>
> The motor wires should be Yellow and Dark Green.
>
> Google for 2001 WJ service manual
> There used to be a few copies floating around out there.
>
> --
> DougW

Doug is on the right tract here. There is a good chance that one of the
modules is bad. The scan tool to check that is about 3000 dollars (DRBIII),
but with all the Chrysler dealers closing, bet you could find one cheaper.
Regular Cherokees are different than Grand Cherokees in that regular
Cherokees don't have all the different modules to work everything, ergo much
easier to work on and understand that their bigger brothers (GCs)
Good luck
Glen
"aetmos" > wrote in message
...
> Hi All,
>
> I seem to have a problem with my rear passenger power window that's
> really puzzling. I first noticed it when it would only go down, but
> not up, from the rear door switch, and wouldn't move at all from the
> driver's door switch. They were calling for rain, so I took apart the
> door to disconnect the window from the regulator, and clamped it up.
> So, I've been trying to figure out where the problem is, but the
> wiring diagram I have in my Haynes manual (1999-2004) doesn't match
> the actual wiring on the vehicle. For starters, there's 6 wires, and
> the book says there's only 5, and the colors and numbers are all
> different. So, figuring out what's supposed to be what is a bit of a
> puzzler.
>
> There's a connector between the switch and the motor, so I took that
> apart, and measured the voltage there. With the switch in the down
> position, I get 14 volts, as expected, and 0 volts with the switch in
> neutral. With the switch in the up position, I also get 0 volts. So, I
> assumed the problem was the switch. $40 and a trip to the Jeep dealer
> later, I have a new switch, and the exact same problem. So, it's not
> the motor and it's not the rear switch. There's also no fuse that is
> just for this door, so it's not a fuse.
>
> Anyway, I've taken some pictures, and have some voltage measurements.
> This picture shows the plug that the switch plugs into:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/b0jangles/3591083030/
>
> And this picture shows the connector between the switch and the motor:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/b0jangles/3590274901/
>
> As you can see, the Green/White and Grey/White wires go to the
> connector that connects to the motor. I think the solid green and
> solid grey wires go to the driver's door switch, and the red/black
> cables go direct to the battery, but I don't know that for sure. With
> the car on, connecting the red and black wires gives me 5V, regardless
> of where the driver's door switch is. Connecting the solid green and
> black wires gives me 14V if the driver's door switch is neutral or
> down, and 0V if it's up. That seems weird right off the bat. I would
> have expected something more like 0V in neutral, 14V up, -14 down. So,
> maybe that's the problem?
>
> Anybody have any ideas or an accurate wiring diagram? What could be
> causing this?
>
> Many thanks for any help!
>
> Thanks,
> Tom

Oh, yikes, a regular aftermarket scan tool won't do the trick? I'd
spend $300, but $3000 is out of my range...

Where are the modules located?

Thanks,
Tom


On Jun 3, 9:47*am, "Glenn news" > wrote:
> Doug is on the right tract here. There is a good chance that one of the
> modules is bad. The scan tool to check that is about 3000 dollars (DRBIII),
> but with all the Chrysler dealers closing, bet you could find one cheaper..
> Regular Cherokees are different than Grand Cherokees in that regular
> Cherokees don't have all the different modules to work everything, ergo much
> easier to work on and understand that their bigger brothers (GCs)
> Good luck
> Glen"aetmos" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > Hi All,
>
> > I seem to have a problem with my rear passenger power window that's
> > really puzzling. I first noticed it when it would only go down, but
> > not up, from the rear door switch, and wouldn't move at all from the
> > driver's door switch. They were calling for rain, so I took apart the
> > door to disconnect the window from the regulator, and clamped it up.
> > So, I've been trying to figure out where the problem is, but the
> > wiring diagram I have in my Haynes manual (1999-2004) doesn't match
> > the actual wiring on the vehicle. For starters, there's 6 wires, and
> > the book says there's only 5, and the colors and numbers are all
> > different. So, figuring out what's supposed to be what is a bit of a
> > puzzler.
>
> > There's a connector between the switch and the motor, so I took that
> > apart, and measured the voltage there. With the switch in the down
> > position, I get 14 volts, as expected, and 0 volts with the switch in
> > neutral. With the switch in the up position, I also get 0 volts. So, I
> > assumed the problem was the switch. $40 and a trip to the Jeep dealer
> > later, I have a new switch, and the exact same problem. So, it's not
> > the motor and it's not the rear switch. There's also no fuse that is
> > just for this door, so it's not a fuse.
>
> > Anyway, I've taken some pictures, and have some voltage measurements.
> > This picture shows the plug that the switch plugs into:
>
> >http://www.flickr.com/photos/b0jangles/3591083030/
>
> > And this picture shows the connector between the switch and the motor:
>
> >http://www.flickr.com/photos/b0jangles/3590274901/
>
> > As you can see, the Green/White and Grey/White wires go to the
> > connector that connects to the motor. I think the solid green and
> > solid grey wires go to the driver's door switch, and the red/black
> > cables go direct to the battery, but I don't know that for sure. With
> > the car on, connecting the red and black wires gives me 5V, regardless
> > of where the driver's door switch is. Connecting the solid green and
> > black wires gives me 14V if the driver's door switch is neutral or
> > down, and 0V if it's up. That seems weird right off the bat. I would
> > have expected something more like 0V in neutral, 14V up, -14 down. So,
> > maybe that's the problem?
>
> > Anybody have any ideas or an accurate wiring diagram? What could be
> > causing this?
>
> > Many thanks for any help!
>
> > Thanks,
> > Tom
>
>

Tom,

Go to http://pdftown.com/search/node/Jeep+...service+manual
and download one of the Grand Cherokee service manuals. The latest one
I found was a 2001, but that should give you a place to start. You'll
know right away if things don't match with your 2004.

If memory serves me all the wires from the rear doors go back to the
driver door module (DDM) and you have different wires for up and down.
The manual shows you which ones to check for continuity. Before buying
a scan tool or any more parts I'd check to see if the wires are good
between the DDM and the passenger door module (PDM). If the wires are
good then check out the DDM continuity as it could be bad.

On my repair the broken wire was right in the middle of the boot and I
could see it by just slipping one side off. To repair it I had to
thread all the wires through the hole in the body and it was a tight
fit because there were a lot of wires. Several other wires in the boot
were showing bare copper.

Good luck.

dss

Ah! You appear to be correct. I pulled the boot back, and two of the
wires were broken. I didn't get a chance to fix them last night, but
hopefully that will be the culprit.

Thanks!
Tom

On Jun 3, 5:45*pm, dss > wrote:
> Tom,
>
> Go tohttp://pdftown.com/search/node/Jeep+Grand+Cherokee+service+manual
> and download one of the Grand Cherokee service manuals. The latest one
> I found was a 2001, but that should give you a place to start. You'll
> know right away if things don't match with your 2004.
>
> If memory serves me all the wires from the rear doors go back to the
> driver door module (DDM) and you have different wires for up and down.
> The manual shows you which ones to check for continuity. Before buying
> a scan tool or any more parts I'd check to see if the wires are good
> between the DDM and the passenger door module (PDM). If the wires are
> good then check out the DDM continuity as it could be bad.
>
> On my repair the broken wire was right in the middle of the boot and I
> could see it by just slipping one side off. To repair it I had to
> thread all the wires through the hole in the body and it was a tight
> fit because there were a lot of wires. Several other wires in the boot
> were showing bare copper.
>
> Good luck.
>
> dss

aetmos wrote:
> Ah! You appear to be correct. I pulled the boot back, and two of the
> wires were broken. I didn't get a chance to fix them last night, but
> hopefully that will be the culprit.

Makes me wonder just how cheap they have gotten on wire.

--
DougW

DougW wrote:

> aetmos wrote:
>> Ah! You appear to be correct. I pulled the boot back, and two of the
>> wires were broken. I didn't get a chance to fix them last night, but
>> hopefully that will be the culprit.
>
> Makes me wonder just how cheap they have gotten on wire.

Not a new problem, Doug. I've been fixing broken wires in the door bundles
for years on GM and Chrysler vehicles. Seems to be the heaviest gauge
wires that go first. BTW, a fix that works for me is to cut the broken
wire and slip heat shrink onto the wire before I solder it. I shrink that
over the fixed area then pot the whole bundle at that point with a rubber
dip that is made for coating tool handles. If you catch it as it hardens,
you can taper the ends so that sharp bends get spread out - that seems to
keep the problem from coming back. Anyway, it's a long-standing point of
failure.

--
Will Honea