Driving With Two Brakes

> Considering it's a mechanical hand brake mechanism, fluid (or lack
> thereof) isn't going to do anything, unless both rears are so
> contaminated the brake shoes won't hold in the drums.
>
> Seems unlikely.
>

I guess that was the impression that they gave -- that there was fluid on
the shoes, and, therefore, neither the emergency brake nor the rear brakes
(which, apparently, share the same shoes) were functioning because they
couldn't grip the drums.

So, if that's the case, that brake fluid on the rear shoes wouldn't stop the
emergency brake from working; and, therefore, there's a different cause of
the problem with the emergency brake; is it possible that these people are
just yanking our chain, and there's nothing wrong with the rear brakes at
all? I guess I should have someone else look at them.

> Cost to fix? What's a running car worth? How much would it cost to
> replace the car with one that has working brakes? And for the love of
> all that's holy, don't let him drive the thing on public roads in that
> condition - the rest of us would rather get home alive. Him driving
> the car is not just a danger to him, but to others. Which puts a
> point on this query - what kind of parent lets their kid drive around
> in a car where the primary safety system is not operating correctly???

I spoke with his mother after speaking to the mechanic and after posting
here. Apparently, she was unaware that the rear brakes were not working. She
said, one, the place didn't tell her it was an unsafe situation. And, two,
she said she thought the emergency brake had a different brake shoe than the
rear brake. Thus, until I spoke with her, she thought the situation was
restricted to only the emergency brake, and not the rear brake itself.

I was going to post another question, asking if it was OK to allow him to
drive it for a week or two until she could get the money to fix it, since
the front brakes are working, and he hasn't noticed any problem with
stopping. Your above statement seems to answer that question, though.

Thanks,

Neil

> You can fix it yourself if you are at all mechanically inclined. this is
> not a difficult job and the parts ought to be inexpensive. I would repack
> the rear wheel bearings while you're in there (but check the ID of the
> drums first before you do - you might need new drums.) How much were you
> quoted for the job and what all did they include? At a minimum you will
> need a set of shoes, two wheel cylinders, and two grease seals.
>
> I wouldn't drive it - contrary to what you might suspect, brake fluid on
> linings makes the linings "grabby" which is really bad when it happens on
> the rear wheels.
>
> I hope you read this, my news server won't let me reply to all the groups
> to which you posted the message.
>

Yes, I got it. (I'm in the habit of checking all newsgroups to which I post,
since other people seem to have the same problem.)

The price they quoted was $110, but I don't know what that includes. That
seems kinda low if they have to replace the shoes and the cylinders, and
charge about $70/hr for labor. Makes me wonder if they were going to replace
the shoes (and, if not, then I have to wonder how bad the leak could be if
they didn't feel the brake shoes needed to be replaced).

The original diagnoses, as I noted in a subsequent post, was due to the
emergency brake not being able to hold the wheels. They said it was due to
fluid on the shoes that was leaking from the cylinders. But if there isn't
that much fluid on the shoes (since they, apparently, weren't going to
replace the shoes), then one would have to question if that was what was
really going on, or if they even know what they're doing.

Thanks,

Neil

In article >, Neil wrote:

>The price they quoted was $110, but I don't know what that includes.

It should include two wheel cylinders and at least relined shoes. Given
the price of wheel cylinders and brake shoes for my old drum braked car
that sounds like a decent price. It's nearly all parts unless 10 year
old VW parts are ALOT cheaper than for a 35 year old ford.

Neil wrote:
>>You can fix it yourself if you are at all mechanically inclined. this is
>>not a difficult job and the parts ought to be inexpensive. I would repack
>>the rear wheel bearings while you're in there (but check the ID of the
>>drums first before you do - you might need new drums.) How much were you
>>quoted for the job and what all did they include? At a minimum you will
>>need a set of shoes, two wheel cylinders, and two grease seals.
>>
>>I wouldn't drive it - contrary to what you might suspect, brake fluid on
>>linings makes the linings "grabby" which is really bad when it happens on
>>the rear wheels.
>>
>>I hope you read this, my news server won't let me reply to all the groups
>>to which you posted the message.
>>
>
>
> Yes, I got it. (I'm in the habit of checking all newsgroups to which I post,
> since other people seem to have the same problem.)
>
> The price they quoted was $110, but I don't know what that includes. That
> seems kinda low if they have to replace the shoes and the cylinders, and
> charge about $70/hr for labor. Makes me wonder if they were going to replace
> the shoes (and, if not, then I have to wonder how bad the leak could be if
> they didn't feel the brake shoes needed to be replaced).
>
> The original diagnoses, as I noted in a subsequent post, was due to the
> emergency brake not being able to hold the wheels. They said it was due to
> fluid on the shoes that was leaking from the cylinders. But if there isn't
> that much fluid on the shoes (since they, apparently, weren't going to
> replace the shoes), then one would have to question if that was what was
> really going on, or if they even know what they're doing.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Neil
>
>

Actually that price sounds about right for only shoes and wheel
cylinders. I don't recall what year but for '86 rear shoes are under
$20 at NAPA and cylinders are $8 each. You have to remove or at least
move the shoes out of the way to change the wheel cylinders anyway so
labor would be roughly the same either way. So if you figure about $40
for parts and an hour labor, that's about right.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Brent P wrote:
> In article >, Neil wrote:
>
>
>>The price they quoted was $110, but I don't know what that includes.
>
>
> It should include two wheel cylinders and at least relined shoes. Given
> the price of wheel cylinders and brake shoes for my old drum braked car
> that sounds like a decent price. It's nearly all parts unless 10 year
> old VW parts are ALOT cheaper than for a 35 year old ford.
>

Maintenance parts are really cheap for older watercooled VW's. About
the only car I've ever worked on that was cheaper was an old MoPar
A-body. (several of them, mostly a '67 Dart and a '69 Valiant. I miss
the Valiant, too bad the owner wasn't speaking to me when she decided to
sell it...)

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

In article >, Nate Nagel wrote:
>Brent P wrote:
>> In article >, Neil wrote:
>>
>>
>>>The price they quoted was $110, but I don't know what that includes.
>>
>>
>> It should include two wheel cylinders and at least relined shoes. Given
>> the price of wheel cylinders and brake shoes for my old drum braked car
>> that sounds like a decent price. It's nearly all parts unless 10 year
>> old VW parts are ALOT cheaper than for a 35 year old ford.
>>
>
>Maintenance parts are really cheap for older watercooled VW's. About
>the only car I've ever worked on that was cheaper was an old MoPar
>A-body. (several of them, mostly a '67 Dart and a '69 Valiant. I miss
>the Valiant, too bad the owner wasn't speaking to me when she decided to
>sell it...)

I saw your price list there... the rear wheel cylinder I bought for the
mav last year cost me around $40 at Napa.... Even more than a decade ago
when I replaced the front ones they cost me $35 each or so....

On Apr 4, 4:30 pm, "Neil" > wrote:
> What are the dangers of driving with two brakes? I just found out that when
> my ex-wife took my teenage son's car in to be repaired last week, they said
> there was a leak in the rear wheel cylindar, which was causing brake fluid
> to go onto the brake shoes, causing there to be no rear brakes. She declined
> to have it repaired because of the cost.
>
> How dangerous is it to drive with front brakes only? Seems to me that the
> brakes could lock up or the car could spin or something like that if one has
> to stop suddenly when driving at freeway speeds. Any input is appreciated.
>
> Oh, the car is a VW Golf, about 10 years old.
>
> Thanks!

If you drive slow and supplement the front brakes with transmission
braking, you'll be fine - as long as the front brakes don't spring a
leak too. Big thing is drive slow.

> Actually that price sounds about right for only shoes and wheel cylinders.
> I don't recall what year but for '86 rear shoes are under $20 at NAPA and
> cylinders are $8 each. You have to remove or at least move the shoes out
> of the way to change the wheel cylinders anyway so labor would be roughly
> the same either way. So if you figure about $40 for parts and an hour
> labor, that's about right.
>

Yes, but that's the price at the store. The shop would mark it up about
100%, so it would be much more.

Oh, and by the way, the VW's not 10 years old. It's about 16 or 17 years
old, in case that makes a difference.

Thanks,

Neil

"Neil" > wrote:

>> Actually that price sounds about right for only shoes and wheel cylinders.
>> I don't recall what year but for '86 rear shoes are under $20 at NAPA and
>> cylinders are $8 each. You have to remove or at least move the shoes out
>> of the way to change the wheel cylinders anyway so labor would be roughly
>> the same either way. So if you figure about $40 for parts and an hour
>> labor, that's about right.

>Yes, but that's the price at the store. The shop would mark it up about
>100%, so it would be much more.

>Oh, and by the way, the VW's not 10 years old. It's about 16 or 17 years
>old, in case that makes a difference.

That makes the repairs simpler and cheaper.

Estimate 20 minutes a side and 20 minutes for up-and-down. Experts
with all the facilities should do it quicker.
--
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\ / ASCII ribbon campaign | Great minds discuss ideas;
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In article >, Neil wrote:

>Yes, but that's the price at the store. The shop would mark it up about
>100%, so it would be much more.

$110 isn't even going to cover the cost of the traffic tickets after the
crash.