$ 567.00 for ten minutes labor !?!?!?!?!

I'm just wondering if the person who inputted the cost missed the decimal
place. Sounds like the labor should be $56.70. If that's not the case
consider a small claims action. I did that a number of years ago when a GM
dealer who IMO spent excessive time and did unnecessary work. They probably
won't spend the dollars to have a lawyer in court (you will get a default
judgment) but be prepared to argue your case just in case. When you pay
premium rates you expect premium service, period. No ifs, ands or buts.

--
Richard

'94 GT 'vert
Under Drive Pulleys
Transgo HD2 Reprogramming Kit
High Stall Torque Converter
4:10 Gears
Gripp Sub Frame Connectors (welded)
FRPP Aluminum Drive shaft
FRPP M5400-A Suspension
Laser Red

"Michael J. Delaglio" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Joe" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Michael J. Delaglio" > wrote in
> > :
> >
> >>
> >> "John C." > wrote in message
> >> news:1kD0f.2695$WD5.471@trndny06...
> >>>
> >>> "Michael J. Delaglio" > wrote in message
> >>> ...
> >>>> Just got my 2000 GT back from the dealer. The RPM's would drop all
> >>>> the way
> >>>> down and I'd have to give it gas at idle to keep it going. I
> >>>> figured it was
> >>>> TP issue .
> >>>>
> >>>> Turns out it was the air intake vale. Two bolts hold the thing in
> >>>> and it
> >>>> is right out in the open. Probably would take about ten minutes to
> >>>> put one
> >>>> in.
> >>>>
> >>>> The dealer charged me $ 201.17 for the two parts: F8VZ*9F715*AB
> >>>> (Throtle Air By-Pa) and XR3Z*9E498*AG (Connector)
> >>>>
> >>>> They also charged $ 567.00 for the labor.
> >>>>
> >>>> I absolutely dont believe it.
> >>>>
> >>>> Comments on the labor charge ???
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Ouch! It must have taken 7 hours and 50 minutes to troubleshoot.
> >>> That place
> >>> must have some real cracker-jack techs.
> >>> --
> >>> John C.
> >>> '03 Cobra Convt.
> >>>
> >>
> >> "Cracker-jack techs".... LOL Good one !!! The part that was
> >> replaced is directly responsible for the idle control. I took the
> >> car in for an idle problem. It sould be the first thing that they
> >> check or at least one of the first things. I'm always the first to
> >> give a tech the benifit of the doubt because I used to fix cars
> >> myself at a VW place during my first two years of college way back in
> >> 1986-1988. Lots of air-cooled bugs and the like. I always remember
> >> how just about every customer wanted to know why the repairs would
> >> cost so much. They all wanted to pay twenty bucks to have a clutch
> >> job done.
> >>
> >> In my case here, $ 567.00 labor to diagnose an obvious problem and
> >> then do ten minutes of remove-replace is totally out of hand. It was
> >> a straight-up rip-off !!!!!
> >>
> >> Michael
> >
> > Write the GM of the dealership and tell him/her how angry you are and
> > that they've lost a customer for life.
> >
> > Include copies of the repair including the cost. Tell the GM that the
> > job was a complete rip-off considering what was done.
> >
> > Also tell him/her that if it took that long to diagnose the problem,
> > they've got morons working as techs there and you won't be returning
> > simply because of that.
> >
> > Finally, tell them that you're going to complain to corporate about the
> > entire thing, and you'll be using the GM's name.
> >
> > If you don't get a reply, you at least have the small satisfaction of
> > informing corporate that they've got some rip-off artists at work.
> >
> > If you get a reply, perhaps they'll try to make amends or at least
> > offer you some kind of compensation. Might be worth a shot.
> >
> > Joe
> > Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
> > Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
>
> No question. I'm going to start by calling the service manager and
question
> the labor charge. I got my first new Mustang from this dealer back in
1990.
> It was an LX 5.0. I traded in to them in 2000 and got a new GT. So far
> that makes two cars and plenty of maintenance tickets I have given to them
> for the past fifteen years. My thanks from them is to get ripped-off in
the
> extream.
>
> Michael
>
>

On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 18:45:07 -0700, Spike > wrote:

<snip>
>
>You mentioned the prior employment, but that does not mean you
>understand how the accounting is done. I know a number of mechanics
>who can tune a race car at Indy by ear, but have no idea what it takes
>to keep the team on the track.
>>
Maybe he doesn't understand how the accounting is done, but it did
sound like he had a decent idea of where the problem area was.
>
<snip>
>>
>>Given that they had codes, and that it was an obvious problem with an
>>obvious solution, I cant see them calling it more then one full hour to
>>correct the problem. I'd pay $94.00 or may be at the most twice that. Not $
>>567.00 in labor !!!
>
>Labor, not unusually, can run more than parts. It's pretty hard to
>stand and look over the mechanic's shoulder with a stop watch, and I
>have yet to see a shop where the mechanic uses a time card to begin
>and end each task.
>
Labor usually does run more then parts and of course no one is there
with a stop watch every time, but there are "book" rates for every
task.

> But, the schedule should give you an idea of what they billed for. As
>you should know, there is also "down time" while waiting for
>whatever... parts to be delivered if not in stock, a lift to be freed
>up, the union required coffee break/meal break, etc. It all adds up.
>And $94, that's not too bad in a lot of areas, but it does add up.
>>
>
But you don't pay for down time. You pay for working time. Hell if
you paid for down time there could one helluva bill when it is an out
of stock or hard to find part. If this particular dealership, or
should I say Stealership charges for when their guys our on break or
waiting for resources to be freed up I'd fine a new place to go in a
heartbeat.

>Colleges and technical schools (not all, of course) are turning out
>mechanics who can turn a wrench and change a part... as long as the
>computer tells them which part needs the work. Even my sister
>believed that the only way to do accounting was exactly as she was
>taught in college. When she went to work she kept losing very good
>jobs. And it's all part of the "throw away economy". Cars are headed
>the same way as cell phones, computers, etc. When it breaks, toss it
>and get a new one with new bells and whistles.
>
Well with somethings it is easier & cheaper to toss them and but new
vice paying for a repair, but a car sure as hell isn't one of them.

--
Zombywoof

Si vis Pacem, Para bellum

"Joe" > wrote in message
...
> "Michael J. Delaglio" > wrote in
> :
>
>>
>> "John C." > wrote in message
>> news:1kD0f.2695$WD5.471@trndny06...
>>>
>>> "Michael J. Delaglio" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Just got my 2000 GT back from the dealer. The RPM's would drop all
>>>> the way
>>>> down and I'd have to give it gas at idle to keep it going. I
>>>> figured it was
>>>> TP issue .
>>>>
>>>> Turns out it was the air intake vale. Two bolts hold the thing in
>>>> and it
>>>> is right out in the open. Probably would take about ten minutes to
>>>> put one
>>>> in.
>>>>
>>>> The dealer charged me $ 201.17 for the two parts: F8VZ*9F715*AB
>>>> (Throtle Air By-Pa) and XR3Z*9E498*AG (Connector)
>>>>
>>>> They also charged $ 567.00 for the labor.
>>>>
>>>> I absolutely dont believe it.
>>>>
>>>> Comments on the labor charge ???
>>>>
>>>
>>> Ouch! It must have taken 7 hours and 50 minutes to troubleshoot.
>>> That place
>>> must have some real cracker-jack techs.
>>> --
>>> John C.
>>> '03 Cobra Convt.
>>>
>>
>> "Cracker-jack techs".... LOL Good one !!! The part that was
>> replaced is directly responsible for the idle control. I took the
>> car in for an idle problem. It sould be the first thing that they
>> check or at least one of the first things. I'm always the first to
>> give a tech the benifit of the doubt because I used to fix cars
>> myself at a VW place during my first two years of college way back in
>> 1986-1988. Lots of air-cooled bugs and the like. I always remember
>> how just about every customer wanted to know why the repairs would
>> cost so much. They all wanted to pay twenty bucks to have a clutch
>> job done.
>>
>> In my case here, $ 567.00 labor to diagnose an obvious problem and
>> then do ten minutes of remove-replace is totally out of hand. It was
>> a straight-up rip-off !!!!!
>>
>> Michael
>
> Write the GM of the dealership and tell him/her how angry you are and
> that they've lost a customer for life.
>
> Include copies of the repair including the cost. Tell the GM that the
> job was a complete rip-off considering what was done.
>
> Also tell him/her that if it took that long to diagnose the problem,
> they've got morons working as techs there and you won't be returning
> simply because of that.
>
> Finally, tell them that you're going to complain to corporate about the
> entire thing, and you'll be using the GM's name.
>
> If you don't get a reply, you at least have the small satisfaction of
> informing corporate that they've got some rip-off artists at work.
>
> If you get a reply, perhaps they'll try to make amends or at least
> offer you some kind of compensation. Might be worth a shot.
>
> Joe
> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC

I called the service manager this morning and went over everything with him.
I stressed that the problem was obvious to find and that it should take no
longer then twenty minutes to remove-replace the idel control
valve/connector. I then asked him how they came up with $ 567.00 in labor.
I told him that sounds more like a labor charge to replace an entire air
intake manifold and not an idle control valve/connector. I was expecting
him to give me an argument. He reviewed what he had on the ticket and said
"holey smokes... that dosent look right to me either." He then invited me
back to the dealer during my lunch hour later today to get a credit on my
Amex for two hours of labor. That will bring the labor charge down to just
below $340.00 . He's calling it one full hour of diagnostic time, one full
hour of repair time... and then... one additional hour taken when they
realized there was also a bad vacum hose causing a problem after they had
installed the air valve. I was aware that they had to put on a new vacuum
hose, but I was not told before that it was a diagnostic issue. I thought
they picked the bad vacuum hose out during the replace of the air valve.
They didnt even give a parts charge for the vacuum hose. They writer just
mentioned it when I picked the car up. The official report that I'm getting
from the service manager now states that they had to spend time to discover
the bad vacuum line AFTER they had installed the air valve and connector.
He states that they actually got an additional code due to the bad vacuum
hose once the air valve and connector were installed. So, they have me on
three hours of labor that I can't dispute.

So... They are going to credit me with two hours of labor. Better then
nothing, but I think the bit he gave me about the vacuum line is
questionable. I also think that they didn't make any mistake about the
labor charge they gave me at first. They just decided to take me to the
cleaners. Makes me wonder how many people are getting jacked at car
dealers. To be honest though, I've been going to this dealer for the past
fifteen years without any problems. This is the first time I got snaked.

Michael

"Michael J. Delaglio" > wrote in
:

>
> "Joe" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Michael J. Delaglio" > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>>
>>> "John C." > wrote in message
>>> news:1kD0f.2695$WD5.471@trndny06...
>>>>
>>>> "Michael J. Delaglio" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> Just got my 2000 GT back from the dealer. The RPM's would drop
>>>>> all the way
>>>>> down and I'd have to give it gas at idle to keep it going. I
>>>>> figured it was
>>>>> TP issue .
>>>>>
>>>>> Turns out it was the air intake vale. Two bolts hold the thing
>>>>> in and it
>>>>> is right out in the open. Probably would take about ten minutes
>>>>> to put one
>>>>> in.
>>>>>
>>>>> The dealer charged me $ 201.17 for the two parts: F8VZ*9F715*AB
>>>>> (Throtle Air By-Pa) and XR3Z*9E498*AG (Connector)
>>>>>
>>>>> They also charged $ 567.00 for the labor.
>>>>>
>>>>> I absolutely dont believe it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Comments on the labor charge ???
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ouch! It must have taken 7 hours and 50 minutes to troubleshoot.
>>>>
>>>> That place
>>>> must have some real cracker-jack techs.
>>>> --
>>>> John C.
>>>> '03 Cobra Convt.
>>>>
>>>
>>> "Cracker-jack techs".... LOL Good one !!! The part that was
>>> replaced is directly responsible for the idle control. I took the
>>> car in for an idle problem. It sould be the first thing that they
>>> check or at least one of the first things. I'm always the first to
>>> give a tech the benifit of the doubt because I used to fix cars
>>> myself at a VW place during my first two years of college way back
>>> in 1986-1988. Lots of air-cooled bugs and the like. I always
>>> remember how just about every customer wanted to know why the
>>> repairs would cost so much. They all wanted to pay twenty bucks to
>>> have a clutch job done.
>>>
>>> In my case here, $ 567.00 labor to diagnose an obvious problem and
>>> then do ten minutes of remove-replace is totally out of hand. It
>>> was a straight-up rip-off !!!!!
>>>
>>> Michael
>>
>> Write the GM of the dealership and tell him/her how angry you are
>> and that they've lost a customer for life.
>>
>> Include copies of the repair including the cost. Tell the GM that
>> the job was a complete rip-off considering what was done.
>>
>> Also tell him/her that if it took that long to diagnose the problem,
>> they've got morons working as techs there and you won't be returning
>> simply because of that.
>>
>> Finally, tell them that you're going to complain to corporate about
>> the entire thing, and you'll be using the GM's name.
>>
>> If you don't get a reply, you at least have the small satisfaction
>> of informing corporate that they've got some rip-off artists at
>> work.
>>
>> If you get a reply, perhaps they'll try to make amends or at least
>> offer you some kind of compensation. Might be worth a shot.
>>
>> Joe
>> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
>> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
>
> I called the service manager this morning and went over everything
> with him. I stressed that the problem was obvious to find and that it
> should take no longer then twenty minutes to remove-replace the idel
> control valve/connector. I then asked him how they came up with $
> 567.00 in labor. I told him that sounds more like a labor charge to
> replace an entire air intake manifold and not an idle control
> valve/connector. I was expecting him to give me an argument. He
> reviewed what he had on the ticket and said "holey smokes... that
> dosent look right to me either." He then invited me back to the
> dealer during my lunch hour later today to get a credit on my Amex
> for two hours of labor. That will bring the labor charge down to
> just below $340.00 . He's calling it one full hour of diagnostic
> time, one full hour of repair time... and then... one additional hour
> taken when they realized there was also a bad vacum hose causing a
> problem after they had installed the air valve. I was aware that
> they had to put on a new vacuum hose, but I was not told before that
> it was a diagnostic issue. I thought they picked the bad vacuum hose
> out during the replace of the air valve. They didnt even give a parts
> charge for the vacuum hose. They writer just mentioned it when I
> picked the car up. The official report that I'm getting from the
> service manager now states that they had to spend time to discover
> the bad vacuum line AFTER they had installed the air valve and
> connector. He states that they actually got an additional code due to
> the bad vacuum hose once the air valve and connector were installed.
> So, they have me on three hours of labor that I can't dispute.
>
> So... They are going to credit me with two hours of labor. Better
> then nothing, but I think the bit he gave me about the vacuum line is
> questionable. I also think that they didn't make any mistake about
> the labor charge they gave me at first. They just decided to take me
> to the cleaners. Makes me wonder how many people are getting jacked
> at car dealers. To be honest though, I've been going to this dealer
> for the past fifteen years without any problems. This is the first
> time I got snaked.
>
> Michael

Interesting. I'd still talk to the service manager and/or general
manager and tell them your thoughts - that you've had generally good
experiences for years and now all of a sudden this.

If you've been going there for 15 years, you've got to know somebody
there. Talk to them and see what's up.

If not, then I'd tell the SM and GM that if this treatment is an
indication of how service works from now on, you'll be shopping elsewhere
for service. Their reaction to that statement will tell you if they're
interested in retaining your business. If they're not, then tell them
you'll be relating all this to Ford corporate and they can go screw off.

Joe
Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC

On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 03:40:30 -0400, ZombyWoof >
wrote:

>On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 18:45:07 -0700, Spike > wrote:
>
><snip>
>>
>>You mentioned the prior employment, but that does not mean you
>>understand how the accounting is done. I know a number of mechanics
>>who can tune a race car at Indy by ear, but have no idea what it takes
>>to keep the team on the track.
>>>
>Maybe he doesn't understand how the accounting is done, but it did
>sound like he had a decent idea of where the problem area was.
Possibly, but not all problems are what they appear to be as I
mentioned with regard to my GTA stalling out, which turned out to be
cats gone south...
>>
><snip>
>>>
>>>Given that they had codes, and that it was an obvious problem with an
>>>obvious solution, I cant see them calling it more then one full hour to
>>>correct the problem. I'd pay $94.00 or may be at the most twice that. Not $
>>>567.00 in labor !!!
>>
>>Labor, not unusually, can run more than parts. It's pretty hard to
>>stand and look over the mechanic's shoulder with a stop watch, and I
>>have yet to see a shop where the mechanic uses a time card to begin
>>and end each task.

>>
>Labor usually does run more then parts and of course no one is there
>with a stop watch every time, but there are "book" rates for every
>task.
I said that
>
>> But, the schedule should give you an idea of what they billed for. As
>>you should know, there is also "down time" while waiting for
>>whatever... parts to be delivered if not in stock, a lift to be freed
>>up, the union required coffee break/meal break, etc. It all adds up.
>>And $94, that's not too bad in a lot of areas, but it does add up.
>>>
>>
>But you don't pay for down time. You pay for working time. Hell if
>you paid for down time there could one helluva bill when it is an out
>of stock or hard to find part. If this particular dealership, or
>should I say Stealership charges for when their guys our on break or
>waiting for resources to be freed up I'd fine a new place to go in a
>heartbeat.
As stated, however, since you're not standing over them with a stop
watch or a punch card, when is down time down time and not labor time?
>
>>Colleges and technical schools (not all, of course) are turning out
>>mechanics who can turn a wrench and change a part... as long as the
>>computer tells them which part needs the work. Even my sister
>>believed that the only way to do accounting was exactly as she was
>>taught in college. When she went to work she kept losing very good
>>jobs. And it's all part of the "throw away economy". Cars are headed
>>the same way as cell phones, computers, etc. When it breaks, toss it
>>and get a new one with new bells and whistles.
>>
>Well with somethings it is easier & cheaper to toss them and but new
>vice paying for a repair, but a car sure as hell isn't one of them.
Cars aren't but car parts are becoming.... Hell, humans are becoming
that way.

Spike
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior; Vintage 40
16" rims w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A gForce Radial
225/50ZR16 KDWS skins; surround sound audio-video.

"Joe" > wrote in message
...
> "Michael J. Delaglio" > wrote in
> :
>
>>
>> "Joe" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "Michael J. Delaglio" > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "John C." > wrote in message
>>>> news:1kD0f.2695$WD5.471@trndny06...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Michael J. Delaglio" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> Just got my 2000 GT back from the dealer. The RPM's would drop
>>>>>> all the way
>>>>>> down and I'd have to give it gas at idle to keep it going. I
>>>>>> figured it was
>>>>>> TP issue .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Turns out it was the air intake vale. Two bolts hold the thing
>>>>>> in and it
>>>>>> is right out in the open. Probably would take about ten minutes
>>>>>> to put one
>>>>>> in.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The dealer charged me $ 201.17 for the two parts: F8VZ*9F715*AB
>>>>>> (Throtle Air By-Pa) and XR3Z*9E498*AG (Connector)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They also charged $ 567.00 for the labor.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I absolutely dont believe it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Comments on the labor charge ???
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ouch! It must have taken 7 hours and 50 minutes to troubleshoot.
>>>>>
>>>>> That place
>>>>> must have some real cracker-jack techs.
>>>>> --
>>>>> John C.
>>>>> '03 Cobra Convt.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Cracker-jack techs".... LOL Good one !!! The part that was
>>>> replaced is directly responsible for the idle control. I took the
>>>> car in for an idle problem. It sould be the first thing that they
>>>> check or at least one of the first things. I'm always the first to
>>>> give a tech the benifit of the doubt because I used to fix cars
>>>> myself at a VW place during my first two years of college way back
>>>> in 1986-1988. Lots of air-cooled bugs and the like. I always
>>>> remember how just about every customer wanted to know why the
>>>> repairs would cost so much. They all wanted to pay twenty bucks to
>>>> have a clutch job done.
>>>>
>>>> In my case here, $ 567.00 labor to diagnose an obvious problem and
>>>> then do ten minutes of remove-replace is totally out of hand. It
>>>> was a straight-up rip-off !!!!!
>>>>
>>>> Michael
>>>
>>> Write the GM of the dealership and tell him/her how angry you are
>>> and that they've lost a customer for life.
>>>
>>> Include copies of the repair including the cost. Tell the GM that
>>> the job was a complete rip-off considering what was done.
>>>
>>> Also tell him/her that if it took that long to diagnose the problem,
>>> they've got morons working as techs there and you won't be returning
>>> simply because of that.
>>>
>>> Finally, tell them that you're going to complain to corporate about
>>> the entire thing, and you'll be using the GM's name.
>>>
>>> If you don't get a reply, you at least have the small satisfaction
>>> of informing corporate that they've got some rip-off artists at
>>> work.
>>>
>>> If you get a reply, perhaps they'll try to make amends or at least
>>> offer you some kind of compensation. Might be worth a shot.
>>>
>>> Joe
>>> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
>>> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
>>
>> I called the service manager this morning and went over everything
>> with him. I stressed that the problem was obvious to find and that it
>> should take no longer then twenty minutes to remove-replace the idel
>> control valve/connector. I then asked him how they came up with $
>> 567.00 in labor. I told him that sounds more like a labor charge to
>> replace an entire air intake manifold and not an idle control
>> valve/connector. I was expecting him to give me an argument. He
>> reviewed what he had on the ticket and said "holey smokes... that
>> dosent look right to me either." He then invited me back to the
>> dealer during my lunch hour later today to get a credit on my Amex
>> for two hours of labor. That will bring the labor charge down to
>> just below $340.00 . He's calling it one full hour of diagnostic
>> time, one full hour of repair time... and then... one additional hour
>> taken when they realized there was also a bad vacum hose causing a
>> problem after they had installed the air valve. I was aware that
>> they had to put on a new vacuum hose, but I was not told before that
>> it was a diagnostic issue. I thought they picked the bad vacuum hose
>> out during the replace of the air valve. They didnt even give a parts
>> charge for the vacuum hose. They writer just mentioned it when I
>> picked the car up. The official report that I'm getting from the
>> service manager now states that they had to spend time to discover
>> the bad vacuum line AFTER they had installed the air valve and
>> connector. He states that they actually got an additional code due to
>> the bad vacuum hose once the air valve and connector were installed.
>> So, they have me on three hours of labor that I can't dispute.
>>
>> So... They are going to credit me with two hours of labor. Better
>> then nothing, but I think the bit he gave me about the vacuum line is
>> questionable. I also think that they didn't make any mistake about
>> the labor charge they gave me at first. They just decided to take me
>> to the cleaners. Makes me wonder how many people are getting jacked
>> at car dealers. To be honest though, I've been going to this dealer
>> for the past fifteen years without any problems. This is the first
>> time I got snaked.
>>
>> Michael
>
> Interesting. I'd still talk to the service manager and/or general
> manager and tell them your thoughts - that you've had generally good
> experiences for years and now all of a sudden this.
>
> If you've been going there for 15 years, you've got to know somebody
> there. Talk to them and see what's up.
>
> If not, then I'd tell the SM and GM that if this treatment is an
> indication of how service works from now on, you'll be shopping elsewhere
> for service. Their reaction to that statement will tell you if they're
> interested in retaining your business. If they're not, then tell them
> you'll be relating all this to Ford corporate and they can go screw off.
>
> Joe
> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC

Hiya, Joe...

I went to the dealer on my lunch hour today. I met with the service manager
and he had the business office credit my Amex for two hours of labor. That
is $188.00 not including the tax. When I asked him for the reason I was
charged five hours labor in the first place, he told me that they "went by
the book" on my bill.

1. One hour to diagnose idle control valve. (F8VZ*9F715*AB)
2. One hour to diagnose the connector (XR3Z*9E498*AG)
3. One hour to replace the idle control valve (F8VZ*9F715*AB)
4. One hour to replace the connector (XR3Z*9E498*AG)
5. One more hour to diagnose a bad vacuum hose.
6. No carge to put in a vacuum hose.

Five hours total.

Although he was giving me discount on the labor, he said they went by the
book. I reminded him that it was an obvious problem and practicly speaking,
the remove-replace should not have taken more then twenty minutes. That
included the vale itself and the connector. Both of which should be
considered as part of the same job and not two seperate diagnostics and
repairs. I couldent get an answer on what vacuum line had failed. He just
pointed out that they got a code after the replacement of the idle valve
that was being cauded by the vaccum hose. So, it is a legit
labor/diagnostic charge of one full hour. I pointed out to him that in the
past fifteen years I purchaced two new cars from them and have gone there
for all service including oil changes. I went on to explain I have never
been charged "One hour for the tech to start the car, one hour for the tech
to put the car on the lift, one hour for the tech to lift the hood, one hour
for the tech to hook it up to the computer.. And all for the same problem.
I read off the total bill again and said... Look... your charging me EIGHT
HUNDRED DOLLARS to fix an obvious problem that should take any skilled tech
no more then twenty minutes to complete. You want five hours labor to do
twenty minutes of work ??? I told him they charged less money to replace an
itake manifold on a friends 4.6L only a few months ago. I told him that I
felt they had "taken me to the cleaners" regardless of the "by the book"
business. He felt that the discount shows they want to keep my business.
I havent decided if I want to go back there again. They did have a point
about "going by the book" as far as itemizing the charges, but a strong case
could be made that it was all the same problem and not three seperate issues
each calling for one hour of diagnostic and one hour of labor for
remove-replace.

Michael

"Michael J. Delaglio" > wrote in
:

>
> "Joe" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Michael J. Delaglio" > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>>
>>> "Joe" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> "Michael J. Delaglio" > wrote in
>>>> :
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "John C." > wrote in message
>>>>> news:1kD0f.2695$WD5.471@trndny06...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Michael J. Delaglio" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> Just got my 2000 GT back from the dealer. The RPM's would drop
>>>>>>> all the way
>>>>>>> down and I'd have to give it gas at idle to keep it going. I
>>>>>>> figured it was
>>>>>>> TP issue .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Turns out it was the air intake vale. Two bolts hold the
>>>>>>> thing in and it
>>>>>>> is right out in the open. Probably would take about ten
>>>>>>> minutes to put one
>>>>>>> in.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The dealer charged me $ 201.17 for the two parts:
>>>>>>> F8VZ*9F715*AB (Throtle Air By-Pa) and XR3Z*9E498*AG
>>>>>>> (Connector)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They also charged $ 567.00 for the labor.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I absolutely dont believe it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Comments on the labor charge ???
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ouch! It must have taken 7 hours and 50 minutes to troubleshoot.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That place
>>>>>> must have some real cracker-jack techs.
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> John C.
>>>>>> '03 Cobra Convt.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Cracker-jack techs".... LOL Good one !!! The part that was
>>>>> replaced is directly responsible for the idle control. I took
>>>>> the car in for an idle problem. It sould be the first thing that
>>>>> they check or at least one of the first things. I'm always the
>>>>> first to give a tech the benifit of the doubt because I used to
>>>>> fix cars myself at a VW place during my first two years of
>>>>> college way back in 1986-1988. Lots of air-cooled bugs and the
>>>>> like. I always remember how just about every customer wanted to
>>>>> know why the repairs would cost so much. They all wanted to pay
>>>>> twenty bucks to have a clutch job done.
>>>>>
>>>>> In my case here, $ 567.00 labor to diagnose an obvious problem
>>>>> and then do ten minutes of remove-replace is totally out of hand.
>>>>> It was a straight-up rip-off !!!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Michael
>>>>
>>>> Write the GM of the dealership and tell him/her how angry you are
>>>> and that they've lost a customer for life.
>>>>
>>>> Include copies of the repair including the cost. Tell the GM that
>>>> the job was a complete rip-off considering what was done.
>>>>
>>>> Also tell him/her that if it took that long to diagnose the
>>>> problem, they've got morons working as techs there and you won't
>>>> be returning simply because of that.
>>>>
>>>> Finally, tell them that you're going to complain to corporate
>>>> about the entire thing, and you'll be using the GM's name.
>>>>
>>>> If you don't get a reply, you at least have the small satisfaction
>>>> of informing corporate that they've got some rip-off artists at
>>>> work.
>>>>
>>>> If you get a reply, perhaps they'll try to make amends or at least
>>>> offer you some kind of compensation. Might be worth a shot.
>>>>
>>>> Joe
>>>> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
>>>> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
>>>
>>> I called the service manager this morning and went over everything
>>> with him. I stressed that the problem was obvious to find and that
>>> it should take no longer then twenty minutes to remove-replace the
>>> idel control valve/connector. I then asked him how they came up
>>> with $ 567.00 in labor. I told him that sounds more like a labor
>>> charge to replace an entire air intake manifold and not an idle
>>> control valve/connector. I was expecting him to give me an
>>> argument. He reviewed what he had on the ticket and said "holey
>>> smokes... that dosent look right to me either." He then invited me
>>> back to the dealer during my lunch hour later today to get a credit
>>> on my Amex for two hours of labor. That will bring the labor
>>> charge down to just below $340.00 . He's calling it one full hour
>>> of diagnostic time, one full hour of repair time... and then... one
>>> additional hour taken when they realized there was also a bad vacum
>>> hose causing a problem after they had installed the air valve. I
>>> was aware that they had to put on a new vacuum hose, but I was not
>>> told before that it was a diagnostic issue. I thought they picked
>>> the bad vacuum hose out during the replace of the air valve. They
>>> didnt even give a parts charge for the vacuum hose. They writer
>>> just mentioned it when I picked the car up. The official report
>>> that I'm getting from the service manager now states that they had
>>> to spend time to discover the bad vacuum line AFTER they had
>>> installed the air valve and connector. He states that they actually
>>> got an additional code due to the bad vacuum hose once the air
>>> valve and connector were installed. So, they have me on three hours
>>> of labor that I can't dispute.
>>>
>>> So... They are going to credit me with two hours of labor. Better
>>> then nothing, but I think the bit he gave me about the vacuum line
>>> is questionable. I also think that they didn't make any mistake
>>> about the labor charge they gave me at first. They just decided to
>>> take me to the cleaners. Makes me wonder how many people are
>>> getting jacked at car dealers. To be honest though, I've been
>>> going to this dealer for the past fifteen years without any
>>> problems. This is the first time I got snaked.
>>>
>>> Michael
>>
>> Interesting. I'd still talk to the service manager and/or general
>> manager and tell them your thoughts - that you've had generally good
>> experiences for years and now all of a sudden this.
>>
>> If you've been going there for 15 years, you've got to know somebody
>> there. Talk to them and see what's up.
>>
>> If not, then I'd tell the SM and GM that if this treatment is an
>> indication of how service works from now on, you'll be shopping
>> elsewhere for service. Their reaction to that statement will tell
>> you if they're interested in retaining your business. If they're
>> not, then tell them you'll be relating all this to Ford corporate
>> and they can go screw off.
>>
>> Joe
>> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
>> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
>
> Hiya, Joe...
>
> I went to the dealer on my lunch hour today. I met with the service
> manager and he had the business office credit my Amex for two hours
> of labor. That is $188.00 not including the tax. When I asked him
> for the reason I was charged five hours labor in the first place, he
> told me that they "went by the book" on my bill.
>
> 1. One hour to diagnose idle control valve. (F8VZ*9F715*AB)
> 2. One hour to diagnose the connector (XR3Z*9E498*AG)
> 3. One hour to replace the idle control valve (F8VZ*9F715*AB)
> 4. One hour to replace the connector (XR3Z*9E498*AG)
> 5. One more hour to diagnose a bad vacuum hose.
> 6. No carge to put in a vacuum hose.
>
> Five hours total.
>
> Although he was giving me discount on the labor, he said they went by
> the book. I reminded him that it was an obvious problem and
> practicly speaking, the remove-replace should not have taken more
> then twenty minutes. That included the vale itself and the
> connector. Both of which should be considered as part of the same
> job and not two seperate diagnostics and repairs. I couldent get an
> answer on what vacuum line had failed. He just pointed out that they
> got a code after the replacement of the idle valve that was being
> cauded by the vaccum hose. So, it is a legit labor/diagnostic charge
> of one full hour. I pointed out to him that in the past fifteen
> years I purchaced two new cars from them and have gone there for all
> service including oil changes. I went on to explain I have never
> been charged "One hour for the tech to start the car, one hour for
> the tech to put the car on the lift, one hour for the tech to lift
> the hood, one hour for the tech to hook it up to the computer.. And
> all for the same problem. I read off the total bill again and said...
> Look... your charging me EIGHT HUNDRED DOLLARS to fix an obvious
> problem that should take any skilled tech no more then twenty minutes
> to complete. You want five hours labor to do twenty minutes of work
> ??? I told him they charged less money to replace an itake manifold
> on a friends 4.6L only a few months ago. I told him that I felt they
> had "taken me to the cleaners" regardless of the "by the book"
> business. He felt that the discount shows they want to keep my
> business. I havent decided if I want to go back there again. They
> did have a point about "going by the book" as far as itemizing the
> charges, but a strong case could be made that it was all the same
> problem and not three seperate issues each calling for one hour of
> diagnostic and one hour of labor for remove-replace.
>
> Michael

Michael, in essence the SM is telling you that you should return there
for service (and feel good about it!) because they knocked off $188 from
an $800 repair that anyone who used common sense in the first place
could've/shoud've fixed for $300 max. His entire justification is that
the repair was "by the book". I still say that if they go "by the book"
without actually thinking about the repair, then the SM is either a moron
or he simply isn't interested in true customer service.

You probably won't get any further with the SM, so if you're up to it,
talk to the GM. If he/she can't be bothered or gives you the same story,
then it's your choice. Personally, at that point I'd fire off nasty
letters and never return. However, if you feel that the GM really wants
to keep your business, make him/her an offer: Tell him/her that you'll
pay $X for the repair because it's a fair price. You'll have to
determine what's fair for the repair.

Your main problem is that the service department didn't use an ounce of
brain power and relied strictly on "the book". This escalated the bill
by several hundred dollars. Your can ask the GM this question: "Why
should I have service done by people who don't use common sense and
obviously don't care about trying to save the customer money?" You can
also indicate that you'll steer your friends clear of the service
department.

In short, I'd tell the GM that if he/she wants to retain your business,
they'll further credit you $X (you have to determine the amount and it
has to be fair). If not, be prepared to walk right then and there.

BTW, why didn't they credit back the tax on those two hours?

Joe
Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC

"Joe" > wrote in message
...
> "Michael J. Delaglio" > wrote in
> :
>
>>
>> "Joe" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "Michael J. Delaglio" > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Joe" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> "Michael J. Delaglio" > wrote in
>>>>> :
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "John C." > wrote in message
>>>>>> news:1kD0f.2695$WD5.471@trndny06...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Michael J. Delaglio" > wrote in message
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>> Just got my 2000 GT back from the dealer. The RPM's would drop
>>>>>>>> all the way
>>>>>>>> down and I'd have to give it gas at idle to keep it going. I
>>>>>>>> figured it was
>>>>>>>> TP issue .
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Turns out it was the air intake vale. Two bolts hold the
>>>>>>>> thing in and it
>>>>>>>> is right out in the open. Probably would take about ten
>>>>>>>> minutes to put one
>>>>>>>> in.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The dealer charged me $ 201.17 for the two parts:
>>>>>>>> F8VZ*9F715*AB (Throtle Air By-Pa) and XR3Z*9E498*AG
>>>>>>>> (Connector)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They also charged $ 567.00 for the labor.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I absolutely dont believe it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Comments on the labor charge ???
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ouch! It must have taken 7 hours and 50 minutes to troubleshoot.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That place
>>>>>>> must have some real cracker-jack techs.
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> John C.
>>>>>>> '03 Cobra Convt.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Cracker-jack techs".... LOL Good one !!! The part that was
>>>>>> replaced is directly responsible for the idle control. I took
>>>>>> the car in for an idle problem. It sould be the first thing that
>>>>>> they check or at least one of the first things. I'm always the
>>>>>> first to give a tech the benifit of the doubt because I used to
>>>>>> fix cars myself at a VW place during my first two years of
>>>>>> college way back in 1986-1988. Lots of air-cooled bugs and the
>>>>>> like. I always remember how just about every customer wanted to
>>>>>> know why the repairs would cost so much. They all wanted to pay
>>>>>> twenty bucks to have a clutch job done.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In my case here, $ 567.00 labor to diagnose an obvious problem
>>>>>> and then do ten minutes of remove-replace is totally out of hand.
>>>>>> It was a straight-up rip-off !!!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Michael
>>>>>
>>>>> Write the GM of the dealership and tell him/her how angry you are
>>>>> and that they've lost a customer for life.
>>>>>
>>>>> Include copies of the repair including the cost. Tell the GM that
>>>>> the job was a complete rip-off considering what was done.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also tell him/her that if it took that long to diagnose the
>>>>> problem, they've got morons working as techs there and you won't
>>>>> be returning simply because of that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Finally, tell them that you're going to complain to corporate
>>>>> about the entire thing, and you'll be using the GM's name.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you don't get a reply, you at least have the small satisfaction
>>>>> of informing corporate that they've got some rip-off artists at
>>>>> work.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you get a reply, perhaps they'll try to make amends or at least
>>>>> offer you some kind of compensation. Might be worth a shot.
>>>>>
>>>>> Joe
>>>>> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
>>>>> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
>>>>
>>>> I called the service manager this morning and went over everything
>>>> with him. I stressed that the problem was obvious to find and that
>>>> it should take no longer then twenty minutes to remove-replace the
>>>> idel control valve/connector. I then asked him how they came up
>>>> with $ 567.00 in labor. I told him that sounds more like a labor
>>>> charge to replace an entire air intake manifold and not an idle
>>>> control valve/connector. I was expecting him to give me an
>>>> argument. He reviewed what he had on the ticket and said "holey
>>>> smokes... that dosent look right to me either." He then invited me
>>>> back to the dealer during my lunch hour later today to get a credit
>>>> on my Amex for two hours of labor. That will bring the labor
>>>> charge down to just below $340.00 . He's calling it one full hour
>>>> of diagnostic time, one full hour of repair time... and then... one
>>>> additional hour taken when they realized there was also a bad vacum
>>>> hose causing a problem after they had installed the air valve. I
>>>> was aware that they had to put on a new vacuum hose, but I was not
>>>> told before that it was a diagnostic issue. I thought they picked
>>>> the bad vacuum hose out during the replace of the air valve. They
>>>> didnt even give a parts charge for the vacuum hose. They writer
>>>> just mentioned it when I picked the car up. The official report
>>>> that I'm getting from the service manager now states that they had
>>>> to spend time to discover the bad vacuum line AFTER they had
>>>> installed the air valve and connector. He states that they actually
>>>> got an additional code due to the bad vacuum hose once the air
>>>> valve and connector were installed. So, they have me on three hours
>>>> of labor that I can't dispute.
>>>>
>>>> So... They are going to credit me with two hours of labor. Better
>>>> then nothing, but I think the bit he gave me about the vacuum line
>>>> is questionable. I also think that they didn't make any mistake
>>>> about the labor charge they gave me at first. They just decided to
>>>> take me to the cleaners. Makes me wonder how many people are
>>>> getting jacked at car dealers. To be honest though, I've been
>>>> going to this dealer for the past fifteen years without any
>>>> problems. This is the first time I got snaked.
>>>>
>>>> Michael
>>>
>>> Interesting. I'd still talk to the service manager and/or general
>>> manager and tell them your thoughts - that you've had generally good
>>> experiences for years and now all of a sudden this.
>>>
>>> If you've been going there for 15 years, you've got to know somebody
>>> there. Talk to them and see what's up.
>>>
>>> If not, then I'd tell the SM and GM that if this treatment is an
>>> indication of how service works from now on, you'll be shopping
>>> elsewhere for service. Their reaction to that statement will tell
>>> you if they're interested in retaining your business. If they're
>>> not, then tell them you'll be relating all this to Ford corporate
>>> and they can go screw off.
>>>
>>> Joe
>>> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
>>> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
>>
>> Hiya, Joe...
>>
>> I went to the dealer on my lunch hour today. I met with the service
>> manager and he had the business office credit my Amex for two hours
>> of labor. That is $188.00 not including the tax. When I asked him
>> for the reason I was charged five hours labor in the first place, he
>> told me that they "went by the book" on my bill.
>>
>> 1. One hour to diagnose idle control valve. (F8VZ*9F715*AB)
>> 2. One hour to diagnose the connector (XR3Z*9E498*AG)
>> 3. One hour to replace the idle control valve (F8VZ*9F715*AB)
>> 4. One hour to replace the connector (XR3Z*9E498*AG)
>> 5. One more hour to diagnose a bad vacuum hose.
>> 6. No carge to put in a vacuum hose.
>>
>> Five hours total.
>>
>> Although he was giving me discount on the labor, he said they went by
>> the book. I reminded him that it was an obvious problem and
>> practicly speaking, the remove-replace should not have taken more
>> then twenty minutes. That included the vale itself and the
>> connector. Both of which should be considered as part of the same
>> job and not two seperate diagnostics and repairs. I couldent get an
>> answer on what vacuum line had failed. He just pointed out that they
>> got a code after the replacement of the idle valve that was being
>> cauded by the vaccum hose. So, it is a legit labor/diagnostic charge
>> of one full hour. I pointed out to him that in the past fifteen
>> years I purchaced two new cars from them and have gone there for all
>> service including oil changes. I went on to explain I have never
>> been charged "One hour for the tech to start the car, one hour for
>> the tech to put the car on the lift, one hour for the tech to lift
>> the hood, one hour for the tech to hook it up to the computer.. And
>> all for the same problem. I read off the total bill again and said...
>> Look... your charging me EIGHT HUNDRED DOLLARS to fix an obvious
>> problem that should take any skilled tech no more then twenty minutes
>> to complete. You want five hours labor to do twenty minutes of work
>> ??? I told him they charged less money to replace an itake manifold
>> on a friends 4.6L only a few months ago. I told him that I felt they
>> had "taken me to the cleaners" regardless of the "by the book"
>> business. He felt that the discount shows they want to keep my
>> business. I havent decided if I want to go back there again. They
>> did have a point about "going by the book" as far as itemizing the
>> charges, but a strong case could be made that it was all the same
>> problem and not three seperate issues each calling for one hour of
>> diagnostic and one hour of labor for remove-replace.
>>
>> Michael
>
> Michael, in essence the SM is telling you that you should return there
> for service (and feel good about it!) because they knocked off $188 from
> an $800 repair that anyone who used common sense in the first place
> could've/shoud've fixed for $300 max. His entire justification is that
> the repair was "by the book". I still say that if they go "by the book"
> without actually thinking about the repair, then the SM is either a moron
> or he simply isn't interested in true customer service.
>
> You probably won't get any further with the SM, so if you're up to it,
> talk to the GM. If he/she can't be bothered or gives you the same story,
> then it's your choice. Personally, at that point I'd fire off nasty
> letters and never return. However, if you feel that the GM really wants
> to keep your business, make him/her an offer: Tell him/her that you'll
> pay $X for the repair because it's a fair price. You'll have to
> determine what's fair for the repair.
>
> Your main problem is that the service department didn't use an ounce of
> brain power and relied strictly on "the book". This escalated the bill
> by several hundred dollars. Your can ask the GM this question: "Why
> should I have service done by people who don't use common sense and
> obviously don't care about trying to save the customer money?" You can
> also indicate that you'll steer your friends clear of the service
> department.
>
> In short, I'd tell the GM that if he/she wants to retain your business,
> they'll further credit you $X (you have to determine the amount and it
> has to be fair). If not, be prepared to walk right then and there.
>
> BTW, why didn't they credit back the tax on those two hours?
>
> Joe
> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC

Hey, Joe... I have no idea why they didn't credit for the tax. I don't
think I'll get any further with the dealer GM. I accepted the deal they
gave and I'll leave it at that. There is another Ford dealer that is local
to me and I'll probably take my car there in the future. The parts price
they charged me was right on. They over did it with the labor to the tune
of five hours when it should probably be no more then two hours MAX and that
is only considering they had to retrive codes and then do the repair. They
wound up charging me three hours in the end. They got me for an extra
$94.00 then the job should have cost. Their reward will be that they wont
get any more of my money. They will loose more then I will now. My 2000 GT
only has 33,000 miles on it. 40k service, 50k service and so on... They
wont get any of it.

Michael

Michael

"Michael J. Delaglio" > wrote in
:

>
> "Joe" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Michael J. Delaglio" > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>>
>>> "Joe" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> "Michael J. Delaglio" > wrote in
>>>> :
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Joe" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> "Michael J. Delaglio" > wrote in
>>>>>> :
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "John C." > wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:1kD0f.2695$WD5.471@trndny06...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Michael J. Delaglio" > wrote in message
>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>> Just got my 2000 GT back from the dealer. The RPM's would
>>>>>>>>> drop all the way
>>>>>>>>> down and I'd have to give it gas at idle to keep it going. I
>>>>>>>>> figured it was
>>>>>>>>> TP issue .
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Turns out it was the air intake vale. Two bolts hold the
>>>>>>>>> thing in and it
>>>>>>>>> is right out in the open. Probably would take about ten
>>>>>>>>> minutes to put one
>>>>>>>>> in.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The dealer charged me $ 201.17 for the two parts:
>>>>>>>>> F8VZ*9F715*AB (Throtle Air By-Pa) and XR3Z*9E498*AG
>>>>>>>>> (Connector)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> They also charged $ 567.00 for the labor.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I absolutely dont believe it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Comments on the labor charge ???
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ouch! It must have taken 7 hours and 50 minutes to
>>>>>>>> troubleshoot.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That place
>>>>>>>> must have some real cracker-jack techs.
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> John C.
>>>>>>>> '03 Cobra Convt.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Cracker-jack techs".... LOL Good one !!! The part that was
>>>>>>> replaced is directly responsible for the idle control. I took
>>>>>>> the car in for an idle problem. It sould be the first thing
>>>>>>> that they check or at least one of the first things. I'm
>>>>>>> always the first to give a tech the benifit of the doubt
>>>>>>> because I used to fix cars myself at a VW place during my first
>>>>>>> two years of college way back in 1986-1988. Lots of air-cooled
>>>>>>> bugs and the like. I always remember how just about every
>>>>>>> customer wanted to know why the repairs would cost so much.
>>>>>>> They all wanted to pay twenty bucks to have a clutch job done.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In my case here, $ 567.00 labor to diagnose an obvious problem
>>>>>>> and then do ten minutes of remove-replace is totally out of
>>>>>>> hand.
>>>>>>> It was a straight-up rip-off !!!!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Michael
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Write the GM of the dealership and tell him/her how angry you
>>>>>> are and that they've lost a customer for life.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Include copies of the repair including the cost. Tell the GM
>>>>>> that the job was a complete rip-off considering what was done.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also tell him/her that if it took that long to diagnose the
>>>>>> problem, they've got morons working as techs there and you won't
>>>>>> be returning simply because of that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Finally, tell them that you're going to complain to corporate
>>>>>> about the entire thing, and you'll be using the GM's name.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you don't get a reply, you at least have the small
>>>>>> satisfaction of informing corporate that they've got some
>>>>>> rip-off artists at work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you get a reply, perhaps they'll try to make amends or at
>>>>>> least offer you some kind of compensation. Might be worth a
>>>>>> shot.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joe
>>>>>> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
>>>>>> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
>>>>>
>>>>> I called the service manager this morning and went over
>>>>> everything with him. I stressed that the problem was obvious to
>>>>> find and that it should take no longer then twenty minutes to
>>>>> remove-replace the idel control valve/connector. I then asked
>>>>> him how they came up with $ 567.00 in labor. I told him that
>>>>> sounds more like a labor charge to replace an entire air intake
>>>>> manifold and not an idle control valve/connector. I was
>>>>> expecting him to give me an argument. He reviewed what he had on
>>>>> the ticket and said "holey smokes... that dosent look right to me
>>>>> either." He then invited me back to the dealer during my lunch
>>>>> hour later today to get a credit on my Amex for two hours of
>>>>> labor. That will bring the labor charge down to just below
>>>>> $340.00 . He's calling it one full hour of diagnostic time, one
>>>>> full hour of repair time... and then... one additional hour taken
>>>>> when they realized there was also a bad vacum hose causing a
>>>>> problem after they had installed the air valve. I was aware that
>>>>> they had to put on a new vacuum hose, but I was not told before
>>>>> that it was a diagnostic issue. I thought they picked the bad
>>>>> vacuum hose out during the replace of the air valve. They didnt
>>>>> even give a parts charge for the vacuum hose. They writer
>>>>> just mentioned it when I picked the car up. The official report
>>>>> that I'm getting from the service manager now states that they
>>>>> had to spend time to discover the bad vacuum line AFTER they had
>>>>> installed the air valve and connector. He states that they
>>>>> actually got an additional code due to the bad vacuum hose once
>>>>> the air valve and connector were installed. So, they have me on
>>>>> three hours of labor that I can't dispute.
>>>>>
>>>>> So... They are going to credit me with two hours of labor.
>>>>> Better then nothing, but I think the bit he gave me about the
>>>>> vacuum line is questionable. I also think that they didn't make
>>>>> any mistake about the labor charge they gave me at first. They
>>>>> just decided to take me to the cleaners. Makes me wonder how
>>>>> many people are getting jacked at car dealers. To be honest
>>>>> though, I've been going to this dealer for the past fifteen years
>>>>> without any problems. This is the first time I got snaked.
>>>>>
>>>>> Michael
>>>>
>>>> Interesting. I'd still talk to the service manager and/or general
>>>> manager and tell them your thoughts - that you've had generally
>>>> good experiences for years and now all of a sudden this.
>>>>
>>>> If you've been going there for 15 years, you've got to know
>>>> somebody there. Talk to them and see what's up.
>>>>
>>>> If not, then I'd tell the SM and GM that if this treatment is an
>>>> indication of how service works from now on, you'll be shopping
>>>> elsewhere for service. Their reaction to that statement will tell
>>>> you if they're interested in retaining your business. If they're
>>>> not, then tell them you'll be relating all this to Ford corporate
>>>> and they can go screw off.
>>>>
>>>> Joe
>>>> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
>>>> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
>>>
>>> Hiya, Joe...
>>>
>>> I went to the dealer on my lunch hour today. I met with the
>>> service manager and he had the business office credit my Amex for
>>> two hours of labor. That is $188.00 not including the tax. When I
>>> asked him for the reason I was charged five hours labor in the
>>> first place, he told me that they "went by the book" on my bill.
>>>
>>> 1. One hour to diagnose idle control valve. (F8VZ*9F715*AB)
>>> 2. One hour to diagnose the connector (XR3Z*9E498*AG)
>>> 3. One hour to replace the idle control valve (F8VZ*9F715*AB)
>>> 4. One hour to replace the connector (XR3Z*9E498*AG)
>>> 5. One more hour to diagnose a bad vacuum hose.
>>> 6. No carge to put in a vacuum hose.
>>>
>>> Five hours total.
>>>
>>> Although he was giving me discount on the labor, he said they went
>>> by the book. I reminded him that it was an obvious problem and
>>> practicly speaking, the remove-replace should not have taken more
>>> then twenty minutes. That included the vale itself and the
>>> connector. Both of which should be considered as part of the same
>>> job and not two seperate diagnostics and repairs. I couldent get
>>> an answer on what vacuum line had failed. He just pointed out that
>>> they got a code after the replacement of the idle valve that was
>>> being cauded by the vaccum hose. So, it is a legit
>>> labor/diagnostic charge of one full hour. I pointed out to him
>>> that in the past fifteen years I purchaced two new cars from them
>>> and have gone there for all service including oil changes. I went
>>> on to explain I have never been charged "One hour for the tech to
>>> start the car, one hour for the tech to put the car on the lift,
>>> one hour for the tech to lift the hood, one hour for the tech to
>>> hook it up to the computer.. And all for the same problem. I read
>>> off the total bill again and said... Look... your charging me EIGHT
>>> HUNDRED DOLLARS to fix an obvious problem that should take any
>>> skilled tech no more then twenty minutes to complete. You want
>>> five hours labor to do twenty minutes of work ??? I told him they
>>> charged less money to replace an itake manifold on a friends 4.6L
>>> only a few months ago. I told him that I felt they had "taken me to
>>> the cleaners" regardless of the "by the book" business. He felt
>>> that the discount shows they want to keep my business. I havent
>>> decided if I want to go back there again. They did have a point
>>> about "going by the book" as far as itemizing the charges, but a
>>> strong case could be made that it was all the same problem and not
>>> three seperate issues each calling for one hour of diagnostic and
>>> one hour of labor for remove-replace.
>>>
>>> Michael
>>
>> Michael, in essence the SM is telling you that you should return
>> there for service (and feel good about it!) because they knocked off
>> $188 from an $800 repair that anyone who used common sense in the
>> first place could've/shoud've fixed for $300 max. His entire
>> justification is that the repair was "by the book". I still say
>> that if they go "by the book" without actually thinking about the
>> repair, then the SM is either a moron or he simply isn't interested
>> in true customer service.
>>
>> You probably won't get any further with the SM, so if you're up to
>> it, talk to the GM. If he/she can't be bothered or gives you the
>> same story, then it's your choice. Personally, at that point I'd
>> fire off nasty letters and never return. However, if you feel that
>> the GM really wants to keep your business, make him/her an offer:
>> Tell him/her that you'll pay $X for the repair because it's a fair
>> price. You'll have to determine what's fair for the repair.
>>
>> Your main problem is that the service department didn't use an ounce
>> of brain power and relied strictly on "the book". This escalated
>> the bill by several hundred dollars. Your can ask the GM this
>> question: "Why should I have service done by people who don't use
>> common sense and obviously don't care about trying to save the
>> customer money?" You can also indicate that you'll steer your
>> friends clear of the service department.
>>
>> In short, I'd tell the GM that if he/she wants to retain your
>> business, they'll further credit you $X (you have to determine the
>> amount and it has to be fair). If not, be prepared to walk right
>> then and there.
>>
>> BTW, why didn't they credit back the tax on those two hours?
>>
>> Joe
>> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
>> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
>
> Hey, Joe... I have no idea why they didn't credit for the tax. I
> don't think I'll get any further with the dealer GM. I accepted the
> deal they gave and I'll leave it at that. There is another Ford
> dealer that is local to me and I'll probably take my car there in the
> future. The parts price they charged me was right on. They over did
> it with the labor to the tune of five hours when it should probably
> be no more then two hours MAX and that is only considering they had
> to retrive codes and then do the repair. They wound up charging me
> three hours in the end. They got me for an extra $94.00 then the job
> should have cost. Their reward will be that they wont get any more
> of my money. They will loose more then I will now. My 2000 GT only
> has 33,000 miles on it. 40k service, 50k service and so on... They
> wont get any of it.
>
> Michael

There ya go. Money talks. Good luck with the next one.

>
>Hey, Joe... I have no idea why they didn't credit for the tax. I don't
>think I'll get any further with the dealer GM. I accepted the deal they
>gave and I'll leave it at that. There is another Ford dealer that is local
>to me and I'll probably take my car there in the future. The parts price
>they charged me was right on. They over did it with the labor to the tune
>of five hours when it should probably be no more then two hours MAX and that
>is only considering they had to retrive codes and then do the repair. They
>wound up charging me three hours in the end. They got me for an extra
>$94.00 then the job should have cost. Their reward will be that they wont
>get any more of my money. They will loose more then I will now. My 2000 GT
>only has 33,000 miles on it. 40k service, 50k service and so on... They
>wont get any of it.
>
>Michael

Generally speaking, when you accepted the refund made by the SM,
that's the end of it. I believe you will find this is the case under
standard contract law. You can still raise a complaint with the GM,
and if the GM wants to placate you further with an added refund, that
is a bonus. Don't expect it. The GM is going to talk to the SM and
when he learns you have already been given a refund which you accepted
as a resolution, he's not apt to give you more. In future, if the SM
were to offer a refund of say 10% or whatever, and you did not feel
this was sufficient, then that would be the time to take the issue
higher. Essentially, you got what you got, AND you learned a lesson
(hopefully). Also, while you have made prior purchases there, two cars
is really nothing to a dealer. If they lose a fleet sale, THEN it's a
problem. In future, I would track down a really good local shop for
repairs, and when and if you ever make another purchase, you might
consider driving that extra mile to deal with someone else. Luck to
ya.

Spike
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior; Vintage 40
16" rims w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A gForce Radial
225/50ZR16 KDWS skins; surround sound audio-video.