EPA caught VW cheating - how does the car know it's being tested?

On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 20:12:41 -0500, Vic Smith wrote:

> The most important thing here is that puts an end to those incessant
> and tasteless TDI ads on TV, with those offensive dirty old women.
> Good

Apparently VW yanked *all* those youtube ads, completely.
Amazing how quickly that marketing team can move!

On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 19:52:57 -0600, Tony Hwang wrote:

> VW chief said, "we screwed up" So they intentionally cheated.

Actually, the USA chief said "we screwed up".
The Germany chief is just "endlessly sorry".

On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 21:13:49 -0500, Vic Smith wrote:

> When the congressional Benghazi committee wraps it up in the next
> 10-12 years, they should take this up.
> They'll get to the bottom of it.

I realize some things are "political", but is *this* issue really a
"congressional" issue?

Isn't it simply that CARB & the EPA have procedures which are backed up
by force of law (admittedly, made by Congress), which VW broke?

On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 22:19:48 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> I cannot imagine a big corporation intentionally doing something like
> that and figure they would not get caught. Too many people work on
> projects like that and superiors have to sign off. The cost t fix it is
> in the billions and for what?

I wonder, out loud, how many people inside of VW knew about this?

Do you think it was a small cadre?
Or basically everyone?

On 9/22/2015 10:38 PM, Winston_Smith wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 22:19:48 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>> I cannot imagine a big corporation intentionally doing something like
>> that and figure they would not get caught. Too many people work on
>> projects like that and superiors have to sign off. The cost t fix it is
>> in the billions and for what?
>
> I wonder, out loud, how many people inside of VW knew about this?
>
> Do you think it was a small cadre?
> Or basically everyone?
>

In a corporation that size, even a small cadre could have been 20 to 50
engineers. Someone had to come up with the idea, design, build, test,
and approve everything. The guys on the line installing would probably
have no idea, just another part. Higher level in engineering would know.

On Wed, 23 Sep 2015 02:37:55 +0000 (UTC), Winston_Smith
> wrote:

>On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 21:13:49 -0500, Vic Smith wrote:
>
>> When the congressional Benghazi committee wraps it up in the next
>> 10-12 years, they should take this up.
>> They'll get to the bottom of it.
>
>I realize some things are "political", but is *this* issue really a
>"congressional" issue?
>
>Isn't it simply that CARB & the EPA have procedures which are backed up
>by force of law (admittedly, made by Congress), which VW broke?

That was tongue and cheek. But a congressional committee can
investigate a ham sandwich if they please.

NoSpamForMe wrote:
> On 9/18/2015 8:19 PM, Ewald Böhm wrote:
>> Apparently Volkswagen/Audi cheated on the USA emissions tests since
>> 2009 to 2015 by turning off the EGR to lower nitrogen oxide emissions
>> ONLY when the car was being tested for emissions.
>>
>> REFERENCES:
>> http://blog.ucsusa.org/volkswagen-ca...cle-recall-887
>> http://www.engineering.com/AdvancedM...EPA-Tests.aspx
>> http://hothardware.com/news/vw-inten...-482k-vehicles
>> etc.
>>
>> My question is HOW did the car *know* it was being *tested* for
>> emissions?
>
> It seems like everyone here is on a VW witch hunt.
> I would expect VW to program it's black boxes to use the minimum fuel
> for a given situation. If the car is on a dyno, there would be no wind
> resistance to push
> against so the fuel system *should* lower the fuel flow. I'd expect
> the same behavior if I was rolling down a mountain grade. Sheeeesh!

Wow! Cluelessness at it's best!

Bob F wrote:
> NoSpamForMe wrote:
>> On 9/18/2015 8:19 PM, Ewald Böhm wrote:
>>> Apparently Volkswagen/Audi cheated on the USA emissions tests since
>>> 2009 to 2015 by turning off the EGR to lower nitrogen oxide
>>> emissions ONLY when the car was being tested for emissions.
>>>
>>> REFERENCES:
>>> http://blog.ucsusa.org/volkswagen-ca...cle-recall-887
>>> http://www.engineering.com/AdvancedM...EPA-Tests.aspx
>>> http://hothardware.com/news/vw-inten...-482k-vehicles
>>> etc.
>>>
>>> My question is HOW did the car *know* it was being *tested* for
>>> emissions?
>>
>> It seems like everyone here is on a VW witch hunt.
>> I would expect VW to program it's black boxes to use the minimum fuel
>> for a given situation. If the car is on a dyno, there would be no
>> wind resistance to push
>> against so the fuel system *should* lower the fuel flow. I'd expect
>> the same behavior if I was rolling down a mountain grade. Sheeeesh!
>
> Wow! Cluelessness at it's best!

Update 9/22: This morning VW announced that the cheating issue on diesel engines
is much more vast than initially expected. The company admitted to cheating on
11 million diesel engines worldwide.

.. wrote:
> On 9/22/2015 10:08 AM, Roger Blake wrote:
>> On 2015-09-22, Scott Dorsey > wrote:
>>> This article is not exactly accurate.
>>> ...
>>
>> The point is that government malfeasance, which can and does result
>> in massive death, rarely if ever goes punished. I don't know how much
>> additional pollution is being caused by VW diesels or if the effect
>> is even measurable given their relatively low numbers. I do know that
>> governments routinely lie, cheat, steal, and kill (sometimes en
>> masse) all in a day's work. There's no doubt that what VW did was
>> bad, but the outcry seems out of proportion given the routine
>> misdeeds of the State.
>
> What a goof!

Really!!

Tom Miller wrote:
> "Mayayana" > wrote in message
> ...
>>> Arrests will do nothing.
>>
>> I don't see how you can look at it that way. If
>> executives were held crimially liable for corporate
>> law breaking then very little of it would happen.
>> It's the difference between *maybe* risking their
>> bonus and definitely risking years in jail.
>> As long as the corporation is treated as an able,
>> non-human party, and punished financially, that's
>> an implicit statement that we as a society recognize
>> no legal or ethical requirements for people doing
>> business.
>>
>>
>
> Murder is illegal but people still do it.

But the possibilty of real prison time will make them think before doing the
crime.