EPA caught VW cheating - how does the car know it's being tested?

On Wed, 23 Sep 2015 10:23:43 -0400, Steve W. wrote:

> The actual program change is easy. It could be hidden just about
> anywhere but is likely very simple.

But don't you think the code, which clearly had legal implications
known to all involved, would have to be signed off at the highest
level?

On Wed, 23 Sep 2015 07:03:25 -0500, Dean Hoffman wrote:

> They shouldn't be parking in the special parking spaces for
> low emission vehicles.

That's an interesting observation!

Winston_Smith wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Sep 2015 10:00:58 -0400, Steve W. wrote:
>
>> I would bet there will be a software "patch" that will
>> erase the different testing maps, the cars will then meet the original
>> EPA standards
>
> I think the point is that the cars can only either meet the emissions
> standards with reduced drivability, or, with the addition of a urea
> system.
>
> Either will be expensive.

The cars can meet the standards as built. The only real change would be
that the mpg numbers will fall to the original EPA numbers. The only
other thing will be an increase in the amount of times the systems burn
the residuals in the trap.

--
Steve W.

On 9/23/2015 10:00 AM, Steve W. wrote:
> Bob F wrote:


> VW might just decide to leave the market in the US.
>
Doubt they will walk away from a huge market where they have been well
established.

On 9/23/2015 9:00 AM, Steve W. wrote:
> Bob F wrote:
>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> On 9/23/2015 12:56 AM, Bob F wrote:
>
>>>>> Murder is illegal but people still do it.
>>>> But the possibilty of real prison time will make them think before
>>>> doing the crime.
>
>>> But most criminals think they will never be caught so prison is little
>>> deterrent.
>>
>> We'll see what they think after a few hundred VW employees do some
>> serious prison time.
>
>> I bet white collar crime would be a lot more affected by serious
>> prosecutions than random murders. Maybe someday, we'll see it happen.
>> This is not just a US crime.
>
> Won't happen. I would bet there will be a software "patch" that will
> erase the different testing maps, the cars will then meet the original
> EPA standards BUT they won't be getting the high mpg numbers that owners
> bragged about.
>
> The folks who did modifications will likely refuse to bring their cars
> in and the EPA will just issue a VIN list saying these cars are no
> longer legal for road use in the US, registrations and insurance would
> be revoked.
>
> VW might just decide to leave the market in the US.

It has been reported that less than one in twenty-two
problem cars were actually sold in the U.S.

"Winston_Smith" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 23 Sep 2015 08:15:24 -0700, trader_4 wrote:
>
> > The other reason for criminal convictions is punishment,
> > regardless of deterrence. If you have no criminal laws
> > covering things like this, then it's open season and and
> > a whole lot of people who are already cutting corners,
> > going to the edge of what's legal or beyond, will just go
> > further.
>
> Someone somewhere said it's not the severity of the punishment
> that deters crime, but the certainty of it.

My crim. prof didn't believe much in deterrence and pointed out that in
Merry Olde England "Pickpockets picked pockets at the hangings of
pickpockets."

People were so entranced by watching someone *else* dying that they became
excellent targets for pickpockets.

It's also been shown that it's very hard to deter crimes of passion because
people are often way out of their minds when they kill lovers, spouses,
children, etc.

--
Bobby G.

Virtually all marketing material is a lie.

Did you really think that shopvac you bought at McLowesDepotBigBoxSuperMart has a 6HP motor on it?

Did you really think that $49 TV antenna can pull in stations from 200 miles away?

Did you really think your new car would actually get the mpg advertised on the sticker?

You really think your extended warranty will cover everything?

Did you really think Dick Network would deliver all those channels for $19.95 / mo?

So what if VW stretches the truth a bit, they ***all*** do.

Do you know how to tell if a car salesperson is lying? Their lips are moving.

Steve W. wrote:

> The cars can meet the standards as built. The only real change would be
> that the mpg numbers will fall to the original EPA numbers. The only
> other thing will be an increase in the amount of times the systems burn
> the residuals in the trap.
>
> --
> Steve W.

Steve: I think you are correct. The ECU just needs to be REMINDED that it should always be in "test mode" and forget about "road mode." Sounds like a software issue to me. ALL the subject vehicles HAD to meet the then current EPA/CARB standards before they could be sold in the USA.

"Dean Hoffman" > wrote in
news
>
>> Wonder about MB and BMW Diesel vehicles. I was looking at MB GLK-250
>> Diesel version when news broke out. Considering Diesel vehicle for next
>> new car purchase is on hold now. Also I am wondering about turbo charged
>> small engines on almost every cars, Ecoboost, Skyactive...,etc. Crap.
>
> I had a Mazda MX6 with a turbo. One was supposed to let the engine
> idle for a minute before shutting it off to let the turbo wind down.
> There might've been some cooling also.
> An oil reservoir above the turbo with a flow restrictor would've
> eliminated that requirement but that would've cost the manufacturer
> money.
>
>

it was to cool the shafts and blades so the oil wouldn`t coke up. not spin
down. KB

Robert Green wrote:
> "Winston_Smith" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Wed, 23 Sep 2015 08:15:24 -0700, trader_4 wrote:
>>
>>> The other reason for criminal convictions is punishment,
>>> regardless of deterrence. If you have no criminal laws
>>> covering things like this, then it's open season and and
>>> a whole lot of people who are already cutting corners,
>>> going to the edge of what's legal or beyond, will just go
>>> further.
>>
>> Someone somewhere said it's not the severity of the punishment
>> that deters crime, but the certainty of it.
>
> My crim. prof didn't believe much in deterrence and pointed out that
> in Merry Olde England "Pickpockets picked pockets at the hangings of
> pickpockets."
>
> People were so entranced by watching someone *else* dying that they
> became excellent targets for pickpockets.
>
> It's also been shown that it's very hard to deter crimes of passion
> because people are often way out of their minds when they kill
> lovers, spouses, children, etc.

Corporate crime is not in that category. Serious prison terms for corporate
officers and anyone else involved would probably be a strong deterant. Corporate
shortcuts that result in multiple deaths should alway result in strong
prosecutions. Just like presecution of corporation officers for hiring illegal
immigrants is the only real solution to the problem the Repubs whine so much
about. Way cheaper than building the wall they want.