EPA caught VW cheating - how does the car know it's being tested?

On Thursday, September 24, 2015 at 11:00:01 AM UTC-5, JR wrote:
> On Thursday, September 24, 2015 at 1:55:47 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> > Here is the notice of violation filed by the EPA:
> >
> > www3.epa.gov/otaq/cert/documents/vw-nov-caa-09-18-15.pdf
> >
> > It explains a lot.
>
> Google,,, Volkswagen plans for manufacturing electric cars

Google,,, freerepublic.com Volkswagen Fix May Not Last Thanks To Aftermarket Tuners

Vincent Cheng Hoi Chuen wrote:
> Ashton Crusher > wrote in
> :
>
>> That's my point for this thread branch, yes. Not only isn't it worth
>> it, the code is none of teh EPA's damn business.
>
> What I don't understand is that the code, apparently, allowed *more*
> fuel to the engine (to cool the combustion chamber) which lowered NOx
> emissions.
>
> So, fixing the problem should result in *less* fuel to the engine, if
> that's the case.
>
> When they reflash the ecu, wouldn't that lowering of fuel *increase* gas
> mileage *and* bring NOx emissions back down to where they said they were?
>

Backwards.

Less fuel = hotter burn in the combustion chamber = higher NOx numbers
It shows up as vehicles that get better EPA mileage numbers than the
sticker says because they are burning less fuel.

To correct the issue they need to increase the fuel to the engine to
cool the combustion temperatures.

The end result will be that the EPA MPG numbers will be closer to
reality because the engine is now using the fuel to keep the NOx numbers
down. The only "bad" side effect will be that the particulate trap and
the NOx catalyst will need to burn more often to regenerate.

OR VW could come up with a DEF retrofit to drop the NOx numbers.

--
Steve W.

On Thu, 24 Sep 2015 13:56:26 -0400, "Steve W." >
wrote:

>Vincent Cheng Hoi Chuen wrote:
>> Ashton Crusher > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> That's my point for this thread branch, yes. Not only isn't it worth
>>> it, the code is none of teh EPA's damn business.
>>
>> What I don't understand is that the code, apparently, allowed *more*
>> fuel to the engine (to cool the combustion chamber) which lowered NOx
>> emissions.
>>
>> So, fixing the problem should result in *less* fuel to the engine, if
>> that's the case.
>>
>> When they reflash the ecu, wouldn't that lowering of fuel *increase* gas
>> mileage *and* bring NOx emissions back down to where they said they were?
>>
>
>Backwards.
>
>Less fuel = hotter burn in the combustion chamber = higher NOx numbers
>It shows up as vehicles that get better EPA mileage numbers than the
>sticker says because they are burning less fuel.
>
>To correct the issue they need to increase the fuel to the engine to
>cool the combustion temperatures.

Remember we are talking DIESEL here. The more fuel, the hotter the
burn. Same is true of Gasoline, but only to a point. The point doesn't
come in to play with a compression ignition engine
>
>The end result will be that the EPA MPG numbers will be closer to
>reality because the engine is now using the fuel to keep the NOx numbers
>down. The only "bad" side effect will be that the particulate trap and
>the NOx catalyst will need to burn more often to regenerate.


>
>OR VW could come up with a DEF retrofit to drop the NOx numbers.
Are their DEF vehicles included in the "scam" -(Tourag, T7 and
Passat) TDI

On Thursday, September 24, 2015 at 3:53:38 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Sep 2015 13:56:26 -0400, "Steve W." >
> wrote:
>
> >Vincent Cheng Hoi Chuen wrote:
> >> Ashton Crusher > wrote in
> >> :
> >>
> >>> That's my point for this thread branch, yes. Not only isn't it worth
> >>> it, the code is none of teh EPA's damn business.
> >>
> >> What I don't understand is that the code, apparently, allowed *more*
> >> fuel to the engine (to cool the combustion chamber) which lowered NOx
> >> emissions.
> >>
> >> So, fixing the problem should result in *less* fuel to the engine, if
> >> that's the case.
> >>
> >> When they reflash the ecu, wouldn't that lowering of fuel *increase* gas
> >> mileage *and* bring NOx emissions back down to where they said they were?
> >>
> >
> >Backwards.
> >
> >Less fuel = hotter burn in the combustion chamber = higher NOx numbers
> >It shows up as vehicles that get better EPA mileage numbers than the
> >sticker says because they are burning less fuel.
> >
> >To correct the issue they need to increase the fuel to the engine to
> >cool the combustion temperatures.
>
> Remember we are talking DIESEL here. The more fuel, the hotter the
> burn. Same is true of Gasoline, but only to a point. The point doesn't
> come in to play with a compression ignition engine
> >
> >The end result will be that the EPA MPG numbers will be closer to
> >reality because the engine is now using the fuel to keep the NOx numbers
> >down. The only "bad" side effect will be that the particulate trap and
> >the NOx catalyst will need to burn more often to regenerate.
>
>
> >
> >OR VW could come up with a DEF retrofit to drop the NOx numbers.
> Are their DEF vehicles included in the "scam" -(Tourag, T7 and
> Passat) TDI

www.dailykanban.com ..Diesel Power!

Vincent Cheng Hoi Chuen wrote:
> Ewald Böhm > wrote in
> :
>
>> My question is HOW did the car *know* it was being *tested* for
>> emissions?
>
> This video says that the VW TDI meets all California and US & Europe
> requirements! https://youtu.be/GzuFXeO48Rw?t=635

So it must be true?

"Bob F" > wrote in :

>> This video says that the VW TDI meets all California and US & Europe
>> requirements! https://youtu.be/GzuFXeO48Rw?t=635
>
> So it must be true?

It was ironic.

On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 00:19:10 +0000, Ewald Böhm wrote:

> My question is HOW did the car *know* it was being *tested* for emissions?

What I don't understand is that VW had to submit test results from a
(supposedly) independent company in Europe to get certified in Europe
for the 11 million cars that might be affected.

They apparently contracted that job out to Applus Idiada of Spain.

Has anyone any idea how Applus Idiada verified the wrong numbers?

Oh, no, I ain't supporting a thing where you "see a suspect vehicle and pull it over for inspection". That instantly converts to "see a politically incorrect vehicle and harass them".

After 37 years of perfect driving I was stuck in traffic and rear ended by a texting SUV guy at 30 mph. Since I'm so wonderful I had a large safety zone between me and the next guy which massively reduced damage and injury. The non-human overlords at the insurance company said my car must be destroyed since records showed it wasn't new or yuppie-ish. The thing is totally drivable. I did pay $100 to get the brakes fixed. It was too hard to do myself, and my shop guy was pretty annoyed by it.

Cars have way too much socio-political significance to give that much leeway to some random dude. Look at antiques. I grew up w. a big "hooray for machines" attitude, so I had a hard time realizing that many, possibly most "folks who like cars" like only one iconic car and severely hate the others.

This reminds me of the odd John Wayne movie where he plays a bad French cop, and he sees a 2CV of a guy he wants to pick on. He kicks the head light out and says "I'm fining you for bad lights".

Ewald Böhm > wrote in message


> Apparently Volkswagen/Audi cheated on the USA emissions tests since
> 2009 to 2015 by turning off the EGR to lower nitrogen oxide emissions
> ONLY when the car was being tested for emissions.

Was the software really all that "sophisticated"?

The NY Times said it was "sophisticated".
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/25/bu...boardroom.html

I think it was just brazen.

On Thursday, September 24, 2015 at 8:56:03 PM UTC-5, JJ wrote:
> Ewald Böhm > wrote in message
>
>
> > Apparently Volkswagen/Audi cheated on the USA emissions tests since
> > 2009 to 2015 by turning off the EGR to lower nitrogen oxide emissions
> > ONLY when the car was being tested for emissions.
>
> Was the software really all that "sophisticated"?
>
> The NY Times said it was "sophisticated".
> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/25/bu...boardroom.html
>
> I think it was just brazen.

Google,,, independent.co.uk Wolfsburg: VW workers worried about their jobs.