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Just mounted & static balanced my 30th tire in about five years - saving over $400



 
 
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  #11  
Old April 30th 19, 04:13 AM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech
Arlen G. Holder
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 51
Default Just mounted & static balanced my 30th tire in about five years - saving over $400

On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 17:01:19 -0400, Clare Snyder wrote:

> IF thare there, they virtually ALWAYS have the same meaning - and
> thee cheaper the tire the more critical it is. (in other words- HIGH
> QUALITY tires don't have significant runout - OR significant
> inballance. - so the significance of the match marks is less.


Hi Clare,

Thanks for that reference where I found some references literally _stole_
my pictures, which I take as a compliment! You'll recognize my tires, and
my tools in some of the references below, for example.

As I noted prior, I could have sworn that we used to mount the red dot next
to the valve stem for basic stock steel wheels, where I see you found one
of the old references which mentioned that practice of aligning the valve
stem to the red dot.

I found others which both confirm and deny that assumption, so I have some
homework to do to catch up on what I thought I had known so I hadn't
bothered to look it up recently until now.

For now, we'll assume the meaning of the two colored dots are described
here where "red" === "uniformity" and where "yellow" === weight.
<https://www.yokohamatire.com/tires-101/advanced-information/match-mounting>

Bear in mind each manufacturer can use different colors, or no dots as
explained here in this canonical Bridgestone summary:
<https://forums.redflagdeals.com/f-y-i-meaning-yellow-red-dots-tires-1378801/>

> https://www.motor.com/magazinepdfs/042008_09.pdf
> For decades, it was common practice
> in the aftermarket to mount a tire so its
> red dot aligned with the wheel’s valve
> stem, since the valve stem area was normally
> assumed to be the wheel’s lowest
> point of radial runout.


Given that reference which you kindly unearthed, I'm not sure which way to
go forward, bearing in mind these aren't custom wheels; they're plain jane
stock steel cheap wheels (but where I also work on the BBS alloy wheels).

> Consequently, a procedure that was
> once easy has now become complicated.


Here are the articles I'll read to make the decision, all over again,
whether to align the stem to the red or yellow dot, and/or to set up a jig
for checking the high point and low point in radial runout, although, at
home, it would be only static.

This is the canonical publication which no longer seems to exist:
<http://www.bridgestonetrucktires.com/us_eng/real/magazines/ra_v13_i1/PDF/ra_v13i1%20ask%20doc.pdf>

This seems to be a summary:
<https://forums.redflagdeals.com/f-y-i-meaning-yellow-red-dots-tires-1378801/>
Red dot === valve stem
Yellow dot === valve stem

o Mounting & custom wheel handling
<https://www.motor.com/magazinepdfs/042008_09.pdf>
Old method, red dot === valve stem
New method, yellow dot === valve stem

o Bridgestone Tires Red & Yellow Dots
<https://www.car-auto-repair.com/tires-balancebridgestone-tires-red-yellow-dots/>
Red dot === valve stem (red dot supercedes yellow dot)
Yellow dot === valve stem

o Yokohama mounting procedures
<https://www.yokohamatire.com/tires-101/advanced-information/match-mounting>
Red dot === not possible at home
Yellow dot === valve stem

o Tire Rack match mounting
<https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=17&>
This explains my comment about OE wheels & tires most needing the dots.

o Red & yellow dots
<https://www.tires-easy.com/blog/what-are-the-red-and-yellow-dots-on-my-tires/>
Yellow dot === heaviest spot
Red dot === lightest spot

o Continental "coloured dot" markings on car tyres
<https://blobs.continental-tires.com/www8/servlet/blob/554548/e3119edf9831c33103e5a771a0fe5717/download-coloured-dot-markings-data.pdf>
This one says there's no consistent color for weight but
that there is a consistent color for unifornity (red).

o Match mounting
<http://www.livjones.com/2014/04/match-mounting-red-dot-on-tires.html>
Red dot === valve stem (red dot supercedes yellow dot)
Yellow dot === valve stem

o Match mounting
<https://volvoreview.com/read/tire-mounting-red-yellow-dot>
Red dot === valve stem (red dot supercedes yellow dot)
Yellow dot === valve stem

My belief system is based on facts, where I've noticed that most people
seem to have imaginary belief systems, but where, when it's complicated,
then any belief system that works, is fine.

Hence, for now, I'm gonna stick with the old method of red dot === valve
stem, unless there is no red dot, and then yellow dot === valve stem,
unless we can unearth a definitive reference that soundly refutes those
above.

Thanks for keeping an open mind, as you're the only other one on this ng,
that I know of, who has actually mounted & balanced a car tire themselves.
Ads
  #12  
Old May 1st 19, 06:33 AM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech
Sanity Clause[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11
Default Just mounted & static balanced my 30th tire in about five years- saving over $400

Arlen G. Holder wrote:

> Thanks for keeping an open mind, as you're the only other one on this ng,
> that I know of, who has actually mounted & balanced a car tire themselves.


"Themselves".
Does that mean only those who've done it in their driveway at home, or
does it also include the shop I've worked at for the last 12 years?

Either way, we normally use the yellow dot, not just because it's
"correct" in our little version of reality, but because everyone expects
it. Even if we miss by an inch or two, or the dot has worn off over time
(used tire), or if we get a tire brand that doesn't even use dots, the
balancer makes it all happy again. It's really not that critical.


  #13  
Old May 1st 19, 07:38 AM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech
Arlen G. Holder
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 51
Default Just mounted & static balanced my 30th tire in about five years - saving over $400

On Tue, 30 Apr 2019 22:33:53 -0700, Sanity Clause wrote:

> "Themselves".
> Does that mean only those who've done it in their driveway at home, or
> does it also include the shop I've worked at for the last 12 years?


Hi Sanity Clause,
It means different things depending on the question that the person is
answering.

If the question is a technical question about the proper final result in
mounting tires, such as where the colored dots go with respect to the valve
stem (or match mounting marks, which are generally obliterated in older
wheels), then it's a question that the pros can answer.

But if it's a question about using a Harbor Freight ****ty tool, it's
likely NOT a question anyone can answer who hasn't used the Harbor Freight
****ty tools.

I, for one, have used the Harbor Freight ****ty tools, but most people who
are making up excuses for NOT doing tires at home, have NEVER done tires
anywhere, but even if they have, they've never done tires at home using the
HF ****ty tools.

Having a pro try to answer those types of questions is sort of like having
a farmer in California try to answer why they urinate on their crops in
India.

Two different use models, where the farmer in California has all the latest
mechanization and irrigation and tractor-fed fertilization, while the
farmer in India ****es and poops on his crops to get them to grow.

Worse, most of the people responding, except maybe you, me, and Clare, have
_never_ in their entire lives mounted a tire at home using the ****ty
equipment that we're discussing here - where maybe even you and Clare have
never done that.

Remembering that I'm allergic to bull****, all those people making up those
outlandish excuses for why they can't do it are just like my grandkids
making up outlandish excuses for why they didn't do their homework.

The honest answer is that they don't like changing tires at home.
o All the rest is pure bull****, IMHO, if they've never done it.

> Either way, we normally use the yellow dot, not just because it's
> "correct" in our little version of reality, but because everyone expects
> it.


I thank you for bringing up the fact that the yellow dot "can" be used,
where _most_ of the references Clare and I have been discussing say to use
it only if the red dot doesn't exist.

Sometimes facts are conflicting, where they seem to be conflicting here,
which is ok, as long as we're all aware that they conflict.

The facts come first, and then we deduce rational logic from those facts:
o Red is almost always the uniformity indicator
o Yellow is almost always the weight indicator
o Most cites (but not all say the red dot takes precedence over yellow
o Most cites (but not all) say to mount the valve stem to the dots in the
absence of match-mounting marks (which is almost always on older rims).

There's a confusing issue of weight of steel versus alloy, where it seems
that the presumed heavy spot moves 180 degrees between steel and alloy
because of the weight difference between the hole drilled for the valve,
and the valve itself.

> Even if we miss by an inch or two, or the dot has worn off over time
> (used tire), or if we get a tire brand that doesn't even use dots, the
> balancer makes it all happy again. It's really not that critical.


It's not _that_ simple, but it's close to that simple.
o The whole point is to minimize added weight by good initial placement

In summary, I do appreciate that you have experience, because other than
Clare, the posters who made up excuses have never changed a tire at home,
so their excuses were based on nothing material.

I've changed 30 tires at home, where I can say a few things:
1. I mount the red dot to the valve stem on both steel & alloy
(but maybe I should re-think that based on what you & Clare say).

2. I have never failed to mount a tire, from puny 15 inch tires to larger
17 inch tires, where the SUV tires are the hardest due to the sidewalls, I
think, which are designed for heavier loads.

3. I static balance, which I admit is basic, but which seems to work in
that I don't get perceptible vibration, but I like Trader's information
that Costco now dynamically balances tires for only five bucks, which is a
great deal.

So, moving forward, my plan is:
A. Buy tires at great prices online & have them shipped for free, to me.
B. Mount/Balance/Rotate/Repair them at home using HF ****ty equipment.
C. If I feel vibration, then pay Costco $5 per tire to dynamically balance.

One question I'd like to ask you is whether you feel that an
_imperceptible_ vibration can cause damage?
  #14  
Old May 1st 19, 02:33 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 467
Default Just mounted & static balanced my 30th tire in about five years -saving over $400

On 4/29/2019 1:48 AM, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
> UPDATE:
>
> Today I mounted & static balanced my 30th tire in about five years, where
> each time I do this easy job, I learn new tricks to make it even easier.


Avoid static balancing at all cost.
  #15  
Old May 1st 19, 04:07 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech
Ed Pawlowski[_3_]
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Posts: 28
Default Just mounted & static balanced my 30th tire in about five years -saving over $400

On 5/1/2019 2:38 AM, Arlen G. Holder wrote:



>
> Worse, most of the people responding, except maybe you, me, and Clare, have
> _never_ in their entire lives mounted a tire at home using the ****ty
> equipment that we're discussing here - where maybe even you and Clare have
> never done that.
>
> Remembering that I'm allergic to bull****, all those people making up those
> outlandish excuses for why they can't do it are just like my grandkids
> making up outlandish excuses for why they didn't do their homework.
>
> The honest answer is that they don't like changing tires at home.
> o All the rest is pure bull****, IMHO, if they've never done it.


No BS from me. I think for most people it is silly to DIY when the
payback is measured in decades. I have no interest in doing it.

I'm not sure if you have an air of superiority or are just arrogant.
Its the way you come across though.
  #16  
Old May 1st 19, 06:12 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 128
Default Just mounted & static balanced my 30th tire in about five years -saving over $400

On Wednesday, May 1, 2019 at 10:07:46 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 5/1/2019 2:38 AM, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
>
>
>
> >
> > Worse, most of the people responding, except maybe you, me, and Clare, have
> > _never_ in their entire lives mounted a tire at home using the ****ty
> > equipment that we're discussing here - where maybe even you and Clare have
> > never done that.
> >
> > Remembering that I'm allergic to bull****, all those people making up those
> > outlandish excuses for why they can't do it are just like my grandkids
> > making up outlandish excuses for why they didn't do their homework.
> >
> > The honest answer is that they don't like changing tires at home.
> > o All the rest is pure bull****, IMHO, if they've never done it.

>
> No BS from me. I think for most people it is silly to DIY when the
> payback is measured in decades. I have no interest in doing it.
>
> I'm not sure if you have an air of superiority or are just arrogant.
> Its the way you come across though.


Home made tire changer machines Youtube ...If people didn't do things themselves, things would never get done.
  #17  
Old May 1st 19, 06:53 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech
Rod Speed[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 273
Default Just mounted & static balanced my 30th tire in about five years - saving over $400



"sms" > wrote in message
...
> On 4/29/2019 1:48 AM, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
>> UPDATE:
>>
>> Today I mounted & static balanced my 30th tire in about five years, where
>> each time I do this easy job, I learn new tricks to make it even easier.

>
> Avoid static balancing at all cost.


That’s overstate, its better than nothing.

  #18  
Old May 1st 19, 08:40 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech
Peeler[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 23
Default Lonely Psychopathic Senile Ozzie Troll Alert!

On Thu, 2 May 2019 03:53:46 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

>>> Today I mounted & static balanced my 30th tire in about five years, where
>>> each time I do this easy job, I learn new tricks to make it even easier.

>>
>> Avoid static balancing at all cost.

>
> That¢s overstate, its better than nothing.


LOL You just HAVE to auto-contradict. It's better for you than saying
nothing at all, you abnormal 85-year-old senile cretin!

--
Richard addressing Rot Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID: >
  #19  
Old May 1st 19, 09:38 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech
Arlen G. Holder
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 51
Default Just mounted & static balanced my 30th tire in about five years - saving over $400

On Wed, 1 May 2019 11:07:44 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> No BS from me. I think for most people it is silly to DIY when the
> payback is measured in decades. I have no interest in doing it.
>
> I'm not sure if you have an air of superiority or are just arrogant.
> Its the way you come across though.


Hi Ed Pawlowski,

I'm allergic to bull****.
o Particularly from people who are afraid of doing the job themselves.

Hence, they have absolutely zero idea of what they're talking about.
o IMHO, they're all just like grade schoolers discussing Santa Claus, Ed.

Do you remember when Normal Schwarzkopf responded to a news reporter:
"Have you ever _been_ in a minefield?"
REFERENCE: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci88go_rWYY>

Some things, like changing tires at home, people are either afraid, or ill
informed, or they don't have the money for tools, or for storage, or they
don't want to get their hands dirty, or whatever, so they make up all sorts
of lame idiotic excuses for why they can't do something as trivial as
replace a tire at home.

The real answer is that everything they say is just pure bull****
o Because they've never even once done it in their entire lives.

They're just spouting bull**** ... like that idiotic reporter was.
o I apologize if I'm too blunt and factual and honest for you.
  #20  
Old May 1st 19, 09:59 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech
Arlen G. Holder
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 51
Default Just mounted & static balanced my 30th tire in about five years - saving over $400

On Thu, 2 May 2019 03:53:46 +1000, Rod Speed wrote:

>> Avoid static balancing at all cost.

>
> That¢s overstate, its better than nothing.


Hi Rod and Steve,

We go way back, mostly on the Apple newsgroups, where you know I speak
valid verifiable facts and that I don't make **** up and that I'm allergic
to bull**** from people who make claims out of their ignorant asses.

You both are well aware that, never once, in thousands of posts, have my
facts ever been materially wrong(1) since I simply don't make **** up.

If I said I did it, then I did it, and if I said it worked, then it worked.

In _my_ experience, with 30 tires, a good static balance appears to work
rather well by the measurement of lack of perceptible vibration at speed.

However, given the new information kindly supplied by Trader about the
Costco $22 triple check on balance, I'm going to take the next set of
wheels to Costco to ask them if they can triple-check my work.

Only then will we have the facts of how different the results are in the
specify set of tires tested.

--
(1) I'm human, so, I must have once or twice in many thousands of posts,
misstated a material fact, especially as Usenet is casual, but nobody can
find any material fact I've stated that was wrong (trust me, they've
tried), which you have to admit is pretty incredible for factual
credibility on Usenet.
 




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