Speeding: the fundamental cause of MFFY

>From: (J. Todd Wasson)

Snip laws:

Note that Alaska is an exception (scroll to bottom)

http://www.mit.edu/~jfc/right.html

http://www.touchngo.com/lglcntr/akst...Section050.htm

Where it states:
"(b) Upon all roadways outside an urban district, a vehicle other than an
emergency vehicle proceeding at less than the maximum authorized speed of
traffic must be driven in the right-hand lane or as close as practicable to the
right-hand curb or edge of the roadway, except when overtaking and passing
another vehicle proceeding in the same direction or when preparing for a left
turn at an intersection or into an alley, private road, or driveway. "

I haven't read all the state's laws, but this is the only one mentioned where
the maximum speed limit is mentioned.

Hmm... How much traffic is there in Alaska, anyway? ;-)

Also note that I'm referring to freeway driving only here. All the laws
referenced in my last post said something to the effect that there is an
exception made for roads with a one-way signpost. That's not a freeway of
course...


Todd Wasson
Racing Software
http://PerformanceSimulations.com
http://performancesimulations.com/scnshot4.htm

John David Galt wrote:
>
> >> Or [speeders] who keep to he right lane (I think on the assumption that they
> >> think they won't be noticed there).
>
> > I don't see this to be the case. Also, in the case of radar tickets where
> > the cop sits in the median, "cosine error" helps you the bigger the angle
> > he is from you.
>
> That assumes the cop is actually using the radar gun for something other
> than a way to generate phony evidence.
>
> A few miles after you cross from CA to OR on I-5, the freeway makes a
> more-than-90-degree curve to the right in about 500 feet -- and on the
> wide right shoulder you will usually see an OHP cruiser parked facing
> straight out from the center of the arc, running radar. Clearly any
> number his radar gun produces will be meaningless, but he can pretend
> otherwise all day long in court and he'll never get called on it.

http://copradar.com/preview/chapt4/ch4d1.html

If the radar is stationary, the cosine error is only going
to reduce the measured speed of the target vehicle. So it
would seem to me, if the speed the cop measures is over the
limit, then the vehicle is definitely speeding. It may be
speeding by significantly more than the measured value, but
never by less. Now with moving radar, the situation is
different, since (at least some systems), use two radars,
one to measure the cops vehicle speed, and another to
measure the target vehicle speed. The cosine error can make
the cops vehicle speed low, which means that the targets
vehicle speed will be exaggerated.

Ed

John David Galt wrote:
>
> >> Or [speeders] who keep to he right lane (I think on the assumption that they
> >> think they won't be noticed there).
>
> > I don't see this to be the case. Also, in the case of radar tickets where
> > the cop sits in the median, "cosine error" helps you the bigger the angle
> > he is from you.
>
> That assumes the cop is actually using the radar gun for something other
> than a way to generate phony evidence.
>
> A few miles after you cross from CA to OR on I-5, the freeway makes a
> more-than-90-degree curve to the right in about 500 feet -- and on the
> wide right shoulder you will usually see an OHP cruiser parked facing
> straight out from the center of the arc, running radar. Clearly any
> number his radar gun produces will be meaningless, but he can pretend
> otherwise all day long in court and he'll never get called on it.

http://copradar.com/preview/chapt4/ch4d1.html

If the radar is stationary, the cosine error is only going
to reduce the measured speed of the target vehicle. So it
would seem to me, if the speed the cop measures is over the
limit, then the vehicle is definitely speeding. It may be
speeding by significantly more than the measured value, but
never by less. Now with moving radar, the situation is
different, since (at least some systems), use two radars,
one to measure the cops vehicle speed, and another to
measure the target vehicle speed. The cosine error can make
the cops vehicle speed low, which means that the targets
vehicle speed will be exaggerated.

Ed

"C. E. White" > wrote in
:

>
>
> John David Galt wrote:
>>
>> >> Or [speeders] who keep to he right lane (I think on the assumption
>> >> that they think they won't be noticed there).
>>
>> > I don't see this to be the case. Also, in the case of radar tickets
>> > where the cop sits in the median, "cosine error" helps you the
>> > bigger the angle he is from you.
>>
>> That assumes the cop is actually using the radar gun for something
>> other than a way to generate phony evidence.
>>
>> A few miles after you cross from CA to OR on I-5, the freeway makes a
>> more-than-90-degree curve to the right in about 500 feet -- and on
>> the wide right shoulder you will usually see an OHP cruiser parked
>> facing straight out from the center of the arc, running radar.
>> Clearly any number his radar gun produces will be meaningless, but he
>> can pretend otherwise all day long in court and he'll never get
>> called on it.
>
> http://copradar.com/preview/chapt4/ch4d1.html
>
> If the radar is stationary, the cosine error is only going
> to reduce the measured speed of the target vehicle. So it
> would seem to me, if the speed the cop measures is over the
> limit, then the vehicle is definitely speeding. It may be
> speeding by significantly more than the measured value, but
> never by less. Now with moving radar, the situation is
> different, since (at least some systems), use two radars,
> one to measure the cops vehicle speed, and another to
> measure the target vehicle speed. The cosine error can make
> the cops vehicle speed low, which means that the targets
> vehicle speed will be exaggerated.
>
> Ed
>

Interesting that the courts treat radar readouts as accurate,but in
reality,the gun's indicated speed is NOT the true speed of the vehicle
being measured.

If the courts acknowledged that fact,they would have to toss out all the
speed tickets from those devices.

Even writing down the wrong time can get a ticket throw out.

There's more than a little judicial blindness here.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik-at-kua.net

"C. E. White" > wrote in
:

>
>
> John David Galt wrote:
>>
>> >> Or [speeders] who keep to he right lane (I think on the assumption
>> >> that they think they won't be noticed there).
>>
>> > I don't see this to be the case. Also, in the case of radar tickets
>> > where the cop sits in the median, "cosine error" helps you the
>> > bigger the angle he is from you.
>>
>> That assumes the cop is actually using the radar gun for something
>> other than a way to generate phony evidence.
>>
>> A few miles after you cross from CA to OR on I-5, the freeway makes a
>> more-than-90-degree curve to the right in about 500 feet -- and on
>> the wide right shoulder you will usually see an OHP cruiser parked
>> facing straight out from the center of the arc, running radar.
>> Clearly any number his radar gun produces will be meaningless, but he
>> can pretend otherwise all day long in court and he'll never get
>> called on it.
>
> http://copradar.com/preview/chapt4/ch4d1.html
>
> If the radar is stationary, the cosine error is only going
> to reduce the measured speed of the target vehicle. So it
> would seem to me, if the speed the cop measures is over the
> limit, then the vehicle is definitely speeding. It may be
> speeding by significantly more than the measured value, but
> never by less. Now with moving radar, the situation is
> different, since (at least some systems), use two radars,
> one to measure the cops vehicle speed, and another to
> measure the target vehicle speed. The cosine error can make
> the cops vehicle speed low, which means that the targets
> vehicle speed will be exaggerated.
>
> Ed
>

Interesting that the courts treat radar readouts as accurate,but in
reality,the gun's indicated speed is NOT the true speed of the vehicle
being measured.

If the courts acknowledged that fact,they would have to toss out all the
speed tickets from those devices.

Even writing down the wrong time can get a ticket throw out.

There's more than a little judicial blindness here.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik-at-kua.net

In article >,
Jim Yanik .> wrote:
>
>Interesting that the courts treat radar readouts as accurate,but in
>reality,the gun's indicated speed is NOT the true speed of the vehicle
>being measured.

Since cosine error can only cause the radar to read low, it's not
really important. The charge is the same regardless, and the radar
reading is still good evidence (ignoring other sources of error,
anyway -- the biggest being targeting the wrong vehicle) that you're
doing _at least_ the speed on the readout. If they were trying to
enforce minimums with radar it would be a different story.

In article >,
Jim Yanik .> wrote:
>
>Interesting that the courts treat radar readouts as accurate,but in
>reality,the gun's indicated speed is NOT the true speed of the vehicle
>being measured.

Since cosine error can only cause the radar to read low, it's not
really important. The charge is the same regardless, and the radar
reading is still good evidence (ignoring other sources of error,
anyway -- the biggest being targeting the wrong vehicle) that you're
doing _at least_ the speed on the readout. If they were trying to
enforce minimums with radar it would be a different story.

Matthew Russotto wrote:
> Since cosine error can only cause the radar to read low, it's not
> really important. The charge is the same regardless, and the radar
> reading is still good evidence (ignoring other sources of error,
> anyway -- the biggest being targeting the wrong vehicle) that you're
> doing _at least_ the speed on the readout. If they were trying to
> enforce minimums with radar it would be a different story.

It's good evidence of nothing. Trees have been clocked at 75 on the
evening news.

Matthew Russotto wrote:
> Since cosine error can only cause the radar to read low, it's not
> really important. The charge is the same regardless, and the radar
> reading is still good evidence (ignoring other sources of error,
> anyway -- the biggest being targeting the wrong vehicle) that you're
> doing _at least_ the speed on the readout. If they were trying to
> enforce minimums with radar it would be a different story.

It's good evidence of nothing. Trees have been clocked at 75 on the
evening news.

(Matthew Russotto) wrote in
:

> In article >,
> Jim Yanik .> wrote:
>>
>>Interesting that the courts treat radar readouts as accurate,but in
>>reality,the gun's indicated speed is NOT the true speed of the vehicle
>>being measured.
>
> Since cosine error can only cause the radar to read low, it's not
> really important. The charge is the same regardless, and the radar
> reading is still good evidence (ignoring other sources of error,
> anyway -- the biggest being targeting the wrong vehicle) that you're
> doing _at least_ the speed on the readout. If they were trying to
> enforce minimums with radar it would be a different story.
>

Courts seem to take accuracy of evidence into consideration.(usually)
As I noted,having the wrong TIME or date on the ticket is grounds for
dismissal.

Inaccurate evidence should be useless legal evidence.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik-at-kua.net