anti Touareg sentiment

"Kent" > wrote in message
...
> Somehow, our parents, and our parent's parents, "made due" without these
> leather clad, bechromed behemoths, and their families were larger on
> average. And the "Great American Road Trip" was all the rage. The Big 3 and
> their Madison Ave. accomplices have convinced gullible city-dwelling boomers
> (mostly) that they can't "make due" without these ridiculously high margin
> vehicles, and they're laughing all the way to the bank. More proof that
> growing up in front of the television makes you soft in the head.
>
> --
> Kent
> 1987 VW GTI 8V, original owner, 220,000+ miles
>

Your parents, and mine lived in a different world. We got 4 kids in a Chrysler
Newport (which got about 10 MPG for those who feel today's Suv's are such hogs)
because none of us were in child or booster seats, one of us sat in the front
between our parents, and the trunk was gigantic.

Now, no kids can ride in front unless they are over 12, but even then, what car
has a front bench seat that sits 3? Any one under 80 pounds is supposed to be in
a booster or child seat. What car can fit three, forget 4, child seats across
the backseat? None, I know, I tried. What car has a trunk big enough to fit what
those big gas pigs of our youth (well my youth anyway) could swallow?

Your parents could not "make due" with the average car of the 60's or 70's if
they were forced to deal with the rules, regs, and safety equipment that is
required today. Do we need all that stuff? I say no...but that is another topic.

I am not saying you need an SUV, but there are not all that many options for a
family of 5 planning the "Great American Road Trip"! I have a van because I need
one. It has nothing to do with being soft in the head.
--
Tony Bad

02 Jetta Wagon
01 Eurovan MV
91 Jetta 1.6 Diesel
86 Jetta
79 Rabbit 1.5 Diesel (semi-retired for now)
Schwinn Continental 10 Speed
Radio Flyer Pedal Car (my daughter made me add this)

>Somehow, our parents, and our parent's parents, "made due" without these
>leather clad, bechromed behemoths, and their families were larger on
>average.

First of all, I never said that they had to be luxo-barges. Hyundai, Kia and
Saturn all sell medium sized SUVs that are reasonablly priced and realistically
equipped. Just because some people need (and yes, I mean NEED) an Excursion
doesn't mean we all do. Secondly, take a look at how large sedans in the 50s,
60s and 70s were. Not exactly Jetta-sized. Third, the most popular vehicle type
in America for most of that time-period was the station wagon. And the vast
majority of SUVs today are little more than station wagons with more ground
clearence. So you can quit this high and mighty "our parents didn't need it"
bull****. In the 21 years I've been alive, I've played hockey, baseball and
football and taken martial arts. Same with my brother, and we usually
car-pooled with other team-members/classmates. 7 or 8 kids +
hockey/baseball/football gear doesn't sit well in something the size of a
Passat. And forget about all the times my mother carted us in groups of 5 or
more to the beach, the mall, etc..., or my dogs. We NEEDED the space, we USED
the space. In 2001 when we didn't need the huge vehicles as much, we
down-sized. My mother traded in her Expedition for an RX300, which is
Camry/ES300 based. It still has AWD and ground clearence which we USE on trips
to Mammoth in the snow, it still has room for luggage and/or my dogs. But it
isn't a killer.

>More proof that
>growing up in front of the television makes you soft in the head.

Yea, that must be it...
Steve Grauman

I wouldn't consider your Eurovan an impractical family mover, nor would I
consider it an SUV. My complaint is with the highly polished Navigators,
Expeditions, and Suburbans terrorizing suburbia, piloted by a petite,
impeccably coiffured female occupant and (rarely) an infant in a child seat.
I'm convinced that, more often than not, the buttery-soft expanse of leather
seating provided by these behemoths goes unoccupied. In my opinion, this
sort of consumer decision-making has everything to do with being soft in the
head.
--
Kent
1987 VW GTI 8V, original owner, 220,000+ miles

"Tony Bad" > wrote in message
t...
>
> "Kent" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Somehow, our parents, and our parent's parents, "made due" without these
> > leather clad, bechromed behemoths, and their families were larger on
> > average. And the "Great American Road Trip" was all the rage. The Big 3
and
> > their Madison Ave. accomplices have convinced gullible city-dwelling
boomers
> > (mostly) that they can't "make due" without these ridiculously high
margin
> > vehicles, and they're laughing all the way to the bank. More proof that
> > growing up in front of the television makes you soft in the head.
> >
> > --
> > Kent
> > 1987 VW GTI 8V, original owner, 220,000+ miles
> >
>
> Your parents, and mine lived in a different world. We gt 4 kids in a
Chrysler
> Newport (which got about 10 MPG for those who feel today's Suv's are such
hogs)
> because none of us were in child or booster seats, one of us sat in the
front
> between our parents, and the trunk was gigantic.
>
> Now, no kids can ride in front unless they are over 12, but even then,
what car
> has a front bench seat that sits 3? Any one under 80 pounds is supposed to
be in
> a booster or child seat. What car can fit three, forget 4, child seats
across
> the backseat? None, I know, I tried. What car has a trunk big enough to
fit what
> those big gas pigs of our youth (well my youth anyway) could swallow?
>
> Your parents could not "make due" with the average car of the 60's or 70's
if
> they were forced to deal with the rules, regs, and safety equipment that
is
> required today. Do we need all that stuff? I say no...but that is another
topic.
>
> I am not saying you need an SUV, but there are not all that many options
for a
> family of 5 planning the "Great American Road Trip"! I have a van because
I need
> one. It has nothing to do with being soft in the head.
> --
> Tony Bad
>
> 02 Jetta Wagon
> 01 Eurovan MV
> 91 Jetta 1.6 Diesel
> 86 Jetta
> 79 Rabbit 1.5 Diesel (semi-retired for now)
> Schwinn Continental 10 Speed
> Radio Flyer Pedal Car (my daughter made me add this)
>
>

Look sport, somewhere between 21 years old and maturity you'll hopefully
begin to realize that trips to the beach, mall, and Mammoth don't constitute
a NEED. Just trust me on this one. But I'm glad to hear that you're an
active little tike; it'll keep you away from the glass teat (aka TV).

--
Kent
1987 VW GTI 8V, original owner, 220,000+ miles

"Steve Grauman" > wrote in message
...
> >Somehow, our parents, and our parent's parents, "made due" without these
> >leather clad, bechromed behemoths, and their families were larger on
> >average.
>
> First of all, I never said that they had to be luxo-barges. Hyundai, Kia
and
> Saturn all sell medium sized SUVs that are reasonablly priced and
realistically
> equipped. Just because some people need (and yes, I mean NEED) an
Excursion
> doesn't mean we all do. Secondly, take a look at how large sedans in the
50s,
> 60s and 70s were. Not exactly Jetta-sized. Third, the most popular vehicle
type
> in America for most of that time-period was the station wagon. And the
vast
> majority of SUVs today are little more than station wagons with more
ground
> clearence. So you can quit this high and mighty "our parents didn't need
it"
> bull****. In the 21 years I've been alive, I've played hockey, baseball
and
> football and taken martial arts. Same with my brother, and we usually
> car-pooled with other team-members/classmates. 7 or 8 kids +
> hockey/baseball/football gear doesn't sit well in something the size of a
> Passat. And forget about all the times my mother carted us in groups of 5
or
> more to the beach, the mall, etc..., or my dogs. We NEEDED the space, we
USED
> the space. In 2001 when we didn't need the huge vehicles as much, we
> down-sized. My mother traded in her Expedition for an RX300, which is
> Camry/ES300 based. It still has AWD and ground clearence which we USE on
trips
> to Mammoth in the snow, it still has room for luggage and/or my dogs. But
it
> isn't a killer.
>
> >More proof that
> >growing up in front of the television makes you soft in the head.
>
> Yea, that must be it...
> Steve Grauman

Brian Running wrote:
>>What a firestorm of criticism my innocent request for T-Reg owner input
>>created!! Haven't any other longterm, satisfied, VW owners purchased one
>
> of
>
>>these vehicles?? I feel like I am out here all alone- and enjoying the
>
> hell
>
>>out of it!
>
>
> Well, you know, this group is really used by the do-it-yourself guys who are
> keeping their '87 Golfs running and on the road, and it's a tremendous
> resource for that. Lots of knowledgeable mechanical people here. You're
> just not going to find a lot Touareg people here (obviously). There have
> got to be better forums for the topic.


Make that 1981 Scirocco, and why not more Vans and STATION WAGONS and
less SUVs, some of which are TRUCKS and some of which are just that
station wagons, but bloated and hard to see around by conventional
(older & modern) cars.

High margin is a good point, "but I need one" can a case be made BUT
damned if folks don't find trips to the beach, the mountains, and at
least Grandma's house if not the mall necessary.

Just don't need a behemoth on the road is all.


TBerk

Hey Kent,
FYI I have ALREADY driven the wheels right off of MY 1987 GTI 16V (230K)
before metal started collecting in the oil pan, calling for a rebuild, 5
years ago. I DID see a 66 Ford Country Squire wagon, with a 390ci motor and
most of the fake wood trim on the used car lot that might interest you, when
your GTI gives up the ghost. Don't lecture others about sticking with their
practical vehicles, unless you know their driver history, ok? I am already
halfway to your accumulated mileage in my OTHER vehicle, a 99 Jetta TDI.
Does THAT car meet with your tree-hugging, empty pocketed, leather
conditioner phobic approval Kent?
"Kent" > wrote in message
...
> Look sport, somewhere between 21 years old and maturity you'll hopefully
> begin to realize that trips to the beach, mall, and Mammoth don't
constitute
> a NEED. Just trust me on this one. But I'm glad to hear that you're an
> active little tike; it'll keep you away from the glass teat (aka TV).
>
> --
> Kent
> 1987 VW GTI 8V, original owner, 220,000+ miles
>
> "Steve Grauman" > wrote in message
> ...
> > >Somehow, our parents, and our parent's parents, "made due" without
these
> > >leather clad, bechromed behemoths, and their families were larger on
> > >average.
> >
> > First of all, I never said that they had to be luxo-barges. Hyundai, Kia
> and
> > Saturn all sell medium sized SUVs that are reasonablly priced and
> realistically
> > equipped. Just because some people need (and yes, I mean NEED) an
> Excursion
> > doesn't mean we all do. Secondly, take a look at how large sedans in the
> 50s,
> > 60s and 70s were. Not exactly Jetta-sized. Third, the most popular
vehicle
> type
> > in America for most of that time-period was the station wagon. And the
> vast
> > majority of SUVs today are little more than station wagons with more
> ground
> > clearence. So you can quit this high and mighty "our parents didn't need
> it"
> > bull****. In the 21 years I've been alive, I've played hockey, baseball
> and
> > football and taken martial arts. Same with my brother, and we usually
> > car-pooled with other team-members/classmates. 7 or 8 kids +
> > hockey/baseball/football gear doesn't sit well in something the size of
a
> > Passat. And forget about all the times my mother carted us in groups of
5
> or
> > more to the beach, the mall, etc..., or my dogs. We NEEDED the space, we
> USED
> > the space. In 2001 when we didn't need the huge vehicles as much, we
> > down-sized. My mother traded in her Expedition for an RX300, which is
> > Camry/ES300 based. It still has AWD and ground clearence which we USE on
> trips
> > to Mammoth in the snow, it still has room for luggage and/or my dogs.
But
> it
> > isn't a killer.
> >
> > >More proof that
> > >growing up in front of the television makes you soft in the head.
> >
> > Yea, that must be it...
> > Steve Grauman
>
>

Whats the big difference from the 1970's Continentals, Cadillac De-Villes,
Towncars, and Eldorados to todays Navigators, Expeditions, and Suburbans....
they all weigh close to 3 tons, they all have bad handling, they all drink
gas like there's no tomorrow - the SUV's are just able to hold the same 7
people as those big pimp-mobiles in a proper seat and restraint system...

People who drive smaller cars have always been the minority in North
America - whats the point of arguing about it now?? It's been the same
forever, just the styling is a little different.

The first car my dad bought in Canada - a Volvo 142... that was a pretty big
car for the money and the time period when he was living in Germany - and a
lot bigger then his VW Beetle.... it was TINY by the standards over here
with a small 4 cylinder that barely made maybe 100 horsepower. Because of
him always buying smaller cars (Volvo 200, 700, and 900 series as the "big"
car for when the whole family is together, and a small Audi or VW Golfs
85,91,99.5,03 for commuting/small trips with a couple people) I never gew up
to like big cars either.... but none of my friends parents came for Europe
and they all like these big cars - its CULTURE!!! nothing but.

It's actually a good thing (as much as I hate to admit it) that tuner
culture is around with my generation, it's getting a lot of people to love
the small Honda's and other sport compacts out there.
"Kent" > wrote in message
...
>I wouldn't consider your Eurovan an impractical family mover, nor would I
> consider it an SUV. My complaint is with the highly polished Navigators,
> Expeditions, and Suburbans terrorizing suburbia, piloted by a petite,
> impeccably coiffured female occupant and (rarely) an infant in a child
> seat.
> I'm convinced that, more often than not, the buttery-soft expanse of
> leather
> seating provided by these behemoths goes unoccupied. In my opinion, this
> sort of consumer decision-making has everything to do with being soft in
> the
> head.
> --
> Kent
> 1987 VW GTI 8V, original owner, 220,000+ miles
>
> "Tony Bad" > wrote in message
> t...
>>
>> "Kent" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > Somehow, our parents, and our parent's parents, "made due" without
>> > these
>> > leather clad, bechromed behemoths, and their families were larger on
>> > average. And the "Great American Road Trip" was all the rage. The Big 3
> and
>> > their Madison Ave. accomplices have convinced gullible city-dwelling
> boomers
>> > (mostly) that they can't "make due" without these ridiculously high
> margin
>> > vehicles, and they're laughing all the way to the bank. More proof that
>> > growing up in front of the television makes you soft in the head.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Kent
>> > 1987 VW GTI 8V, original owner, 220,000+ miles
>> >
>>
>> Your parents, and mine lived in a different world. We gt 4 kids in a
> Chrysler
>> Newport (which got about 10 MPG for those who feel today's Suv's are such
> hogs)
>> because none of us were in child or booster seats, one of us sat in the
> front
>> between our parents, and the trunk was gigantic.
>>
>> Now, no kids can ride in front unless they are over 12, but even then,
> what car
>> has a front bench seat that sits 3? Any one under 80 pounds is supposed
>> to
> be in
>> a booster or child seat. What car can fit three, forget 4, child seats
> across
>> the backseat? None, I know, I tried. What car has a trunk big enough to
> fit what
>> those big gas pigs of our youth (well my youth anyway) could swallow?
>>
>> Your parents could not "make due" with the average car of the 60's or
>> 70's
> if
>> they were forced to deal with the rules, regs, and safety equipment that
> is
>> required today. Do we need all that stuff? I say no...but that is another
> topic.
>>
>> I am not saying you need an SUV, but there are not all that many options
> for a
>> family of 5 planning the "Great American Road Trip"! I have a van because
> I need
>> one. It has nothing to do with being soft in the head.
>> --
>> Tony Bad
>>
>> 02 Jetta Wagon
>> 01 Eurovan MV
>> 91 Jetta 1.6 Diesel
>> 86 Jetta
>> 79 Rabbit 1.5 Diesel (semi-retired for now)
>> Schwinn Continental 10 Speed
>> Radio Flyer Pedal Car (my daughter made me add this)
>>
>>
>
>

Bull****...they bought massive, gas guzzling station wagons with beautiful
fake woodgrain sides and stacked the children in the back.



"Kent" > wrote in message
...
> Somehow, our parents, and our parent's parents, "made due" without these
> leather clad, bechromed behemoths, and their families were larger on
> average. And the "Great American Road Trip" was all the rage. The Big 3
and
> their Madison Ave. accomplices have convinced gullible city-dwelling
boomers
> (mostly) that they can't "make due" without these ridiculously high margin
> vehicles, and they're laughing all the way to the bank. More proof that
> growing up in front of the television makes you soft in the head.
>
> --
> Kent
> 1987 VW GTI 8V, original owner, 220,000+ miles
>
> "Steve Grauman" > wrote in message
> ...
> > >Practicality be damned, I'm heading down to my
> > >dealer right now and get me a Touareg!
> >
> > For some of us, an SUV *is* the most practical vehicle. We can't all
make
> due
> > with compact and mid-sized cars.
> > Steve Grauman
>
>

trips to the beach, mall, and Mammoth DO constitute
a NEED if you are a healthy well adjusted person.



"Kent" > wrote in message
...
> Look sport, somewhere between 21 years old and maturity you'll hopefully
> begin to realize that trips to the beach, mall, and Mammoth don't
constitute
> a NEED. Just trust me on this one. But I'm glad to hear that you're an
> active little tike; it'll keep you away from the glass teat (aka TV).
>
> --
> Kent
> 1987 VW GTI 8V, original owner, 220,000+ miles
>
> "Steve Grauman" > wrote in message
> ...
> > >Somehow, our parents, and our parent's parents, "made due" without
these
> > >leather clad, bechromed behemoths, and their families were larger on
> > >average.
> >
> > First of all, I never said that they had to be luxo-barges. Hyundai, Kia
> and
> > Saturn all sell medium sized SUVs that are reasonablly priced and
> realistically
> > equipped. Just because some people need (and yes, I mean NEED) an
> Excursion
> > doesn't mean we all do. Secondly, take a look at how large sedans in the
> 50s,
> > 60s and 70s were. Not exactly Jetta-sized. Third, the most popular
vehicle
> type
> > in America for most of that time-period was the station wagon. And the
> vast
> > majority of SUVs today are little more than station wagons with more
> ground
> > clearence. So you can quit this high and mighty "our parents didn't need
> it"
> > bull****. In the 21 years I've been alive, I've played hockey, baseball
> and
> > football and taken martial arts. Same with my brother, and we usually
> > car-pooled with other team-members/classmates. 7 or 8 kids +
> > hockey/baseball/football gear doesn't sit well in something the size of
a
> > Passat. And forget about all the times my mother carted us in groups of
5
> or
> > more to the beach, the mall, etc..., or my dogs. We NEEDED the space, we
> USED
> > the space. In 2001 when we didn't need the huge vehicles as much, we
> > down-sized. My mother traded in her Expedition for an RX300, which is
> > Camry/ES300 based. It still has AWD and ground clearence which we USE on
> trips
> > to Mammoth in the snow, it still has room for luggage and/or my dogs.
But
> it
> > isn't a killer.
> >
> > >More proof that
> > >growing up in front of the television makes you soft in the head.
> >
> > Yea, that must be it...
> > Steve Grauman
>
>

Wow, you luxury SUV drivers are some insecure folks. Might want to get that
checked; I think Merck might now make a pill for that sort of thing. And how
the heck does a long-term GTI pilot with a Jetta TDI lose their way and
purchase a Touareg? Some sort of mid-life crisis? And yes, the Jetta TDI
does meet my tree-hugging, empty-pocketed, leather conditioner phobic
approval. Thanks very much for checking. But you don't need my
approval...really...or do you? Oh, and thanks for the tip on the '66
Ford...sounds groovy, but I doubt I could afford it.

Oh, and let's not make light of leather conditioner phobias. That stuff can
cause one heck of a rash when driving without pants. One more reason I
prefer the cloth seats of my GTI.

--
Kent
1987 VW GTI 8V, original owner, 220,000+ miles


"aokvw" > wrote in message
...
> Hey Kent,
> FYI I have ALREADY driven the wheels right off of MY 1987 GTI 16V (230K)
> before metal started collecting in the oil pan, calling for a rebuild, 5
> years ago. I DID see a 66 Ford Country Squire wagon, with a 390ci motor
and
> most of the fake wood trim on the used car lot that might interest you,
when
> your GTI gives up the ghost. Don't lecture others about sticking with
their
> practical vehicles, unless you know their driver history, ok? I am
already
> halfway to your accumulated mileage in my OTHER vehicle, a 99 Jetta TDI.
> Does THAT car meet with your tree-hugging, empty pocketed, leather
> conditioner phobic approval Kent?
> "Kent" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Look sport, somewhere between 21 years old and maturity you'll hopefully
> > begin to realize that trips to the beach, mall, and Mammoth don't
> constitute
> > a NEED. Just trust me on this one. But I'm glad to hear that you're an
> > active little tike; it'll keep you away from the glass teat (aka TV).
> >
> > --
> > Kent
> > 1987 VW GTI 8V, original owner, 220,000+ miles
> >
> > "Steve Grauman" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > >Somehow, our parents, and our parent's parents, "made due" without
> these
> > > >leather clad, bechromed behemoths, and their families were larger on
> > > >average.
> > >
> > > First of all, I never said that they had to be luxo-barges. Hyundai,
Kia
> > and
> > > Saturn all sell medium sized SUVs that are reasonablly priced and
> > realistically
> > > equipped. Just because some people need (and yes, I mean NEED) an
> > Excursion
> > > doesn't mean we all do. Secondly, take a look at how large sedans in
the
> > 50s,
> > > 60s and 70s were. Not exactly Jetta-sized. Third, the most popular
> vehicle
> > type
> > > in America for most of that time-period was the station wagon. And the
> > vast
> > > majority of SUVs today are little more than station wagons with more
> > ground
> > > clearence. So you can quit this high and mighty "our parents didn't
need
> > it"
> > > bull****. In the 21 years I've been alive, I've played hockey,
baseball
> > and
> > > football and taken martial arts. Same with my brother, and we usually
> > > car-pooled with other team-members/classmates. 7 or 8 kids +
> > > hockey/baseball/football gear doesn't sit well in something the size
of
> a
> > > Passat. And forget about all the times my mother carted us in groups
of
> 5
> > or
> > > more to the beach, the mall, etc..., or my dogs. We NEEDED the space,
we
> > USED
> > > the space. In 2001 when we didn't need the huge vehicles as much, we
> > > down-sized. My mother traded in her Expedition for an RX300, which is
> > > Camry/ES300 based. It still has AWD and ground clearence which we USE
on
> > trips
> > > to Mammoth in the snow, it still has room for luggage and/or my dogs.
> But
> > it
> > > isn't a killer.
> > >
> > > >More proof that
> > > >growing up in front of the television makes you soft in the head.
> > >
> > > Yea, that must be it...
> > > Steve Grauman
> >
> >
>
>