Two kinds of idiots

On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 14:44:11 GMT, Joe > wrote:

>"SVTKate" > wrote in
ink.net:
>
>>
>> "Brent P" > wrote
>>
>> *snipped*
>>
>>| What is the purpose of having so many laws such that people cannot
>>| get through the day without breaking laws? What is the purpose of
>>| having laws that define common, reasonable behavior as illegal?
>>| Many laws in this nation are only enforced selectively. Against
>>| people who are not liked, or have a certain appearance, etc and so
>>| forth.
>>
>> Because without all of those laws, the jackasses in Washington
>> wouldn't have a job making more.
>> Your paragraph above Brent is, IMHO, right on the money.
>>
>>
>>
>>|
>>| Emotional appeals. Even less. Do you obey 55 mph interstate speed
>>| limits? I'll wager in any give day you commit more moving
>>| violations than I do.
>>|
>>
>> Again I agree. I always push the interstate speed limits 5-9 mph
>> over. Out here, if the speed limit is 45, they drive 55-60.
>> If it's 70, they are driving 80-85.
>> I feel like an idiot allot of the time because everyone is passing
>> me. It's not as though I don't WANT to go that fast, BUT I just do
>> not want that ticket.
>>
>>
>> Kate
>
>Kate, I really thought you had more sense than this. What did you
>tell your kids when they learned to drive? That going 5mph over the
>limit is just fine because "everybody does it"? Did you tell them
>that the law is only a "suggestion"?

Of course no one would, but then young people pay huge insurance rates
because they have no e-x-p-e-r-i-e-n-c-e. There is NO reason for an
experienced driver not to drive 70-80mph on an uncrowded, dry highway;
None. Yet our speed limits stay at 60mph, crowded, uncrowded, rain or
shine.

Some have said it is because people normally drive 10-15mph faster
that they keep them at 60mph, which is fine, at least it acknowleges
that people DO drive faster on average than the speed limit and there
is no major increase in danger from it.

And, even if there is, there has to be a point at which you say, we
are a car-driving society. We accept as a consequence that people
will be injured and hurt in car accidents because of this. We can
slow cars down to 40mph on highways and we know it "might" mitigate
some fatalities, but we've rationalized that the risk of faster speeds
is paid back in the rewards of faster speeds, namely, getting where
were going in a suitable period of time. There are some who think
the sheer tedium of travelling very slow makes drivers worse drivers.

I would personally like them to do this; Raise speed limits on
highways to 80mph, with the admonition that anyone caught going
over that limit would be fined far more heavily than they are now.
This is what they do in some countries in Europe. This would
legalize the higher speed, would not encourage people to go faster
than they already do, but, would mean someone going 80mph wouldn't
face the possibility of a ticket for doing so. I think it would also
encourage people to develop a more disciplined driving style than
they practice now.

I'd keep speeds the same on city streets though and nail people's
asses to the wall if they did things like run red lights. IMO,
you should have your license suspended for things like that because
they have inherently higher risk than simply going faster on a highway
that can support it.
-Rich

"Garth Almgren" > wrote
| I don't usually make a fuss over it either, but since you asked I
| couldn't help answering.
|

LOL...
well, it was good for a giggle anyway!

"Joe" > wrote
*snip*
| Kate, I really thought you had more sense than this. What did you
| tell your kids when they learned to drive? That going 5mph over the
| limit is just fine because "everybody does it"? Did you tell them
| that the law is only a "suggestion"?

Well, Joe, thanks for the kind words. How much sense I have may be
questionable at times.

You're right, about it being just a suggestion, and you have an valid point.
It IS the law. There is no arguing with that whatsoever.

But seriously, how many poeple do you know that do the exact speed limit? I
mean that will admit to always going the limit.

In town, school zones and places like that, I try my damnedest to drive the
speed limit.
I would say that 95% of the time I am successful.

BUT, on the freeway?
If I'm doing 5-7 mph over I'm still sitting still out there when everyone is
wizzing past. I know that because everyone else does it, is not a good
excuse, but dangit, I am not going to drive 65 while the rest of the world
is driving 75-80.

"SVTKate" > wrote in
link.net:

>
> "Joe" > wrote
> *snip*
>| Kate, I really thought you had more sense than this. What did you
>| tell your kids when they learned to drive? That going 5mph over
>| the limit is just fine because "everybody does it"? Did you tell
>| them that the law is only a "suggestion"?
>
> Well, Joe, thanks for the kind words. How much sense I have may be
> questionable at times.

I know the feeling.

> You're right, about it being just a suggestion, and you have an
> valid point. It IS the law. There is no arguing with that
> whatsoever.

That's my only point.

> But seriously, how many poeple do you know that do the exact speed
> limit? I mean that will admit to always going the limit.

None. Myself included. I've taught my son that it's his duty to obey
the laws. But when obeying the law puts him at risk, like when
everybody's doing 90 in a 70, then he should "blend in" with the
traffic so he doesn't pose a hazard to himself or anyone else. I've
also told him that while doing so, he (and everyone else) risks
getting a ticket with points. It's happened to me, and I'm sure it's
happened to others.

> In town, school zones and places like that, I try my damnedest to
> drive the speed limit.
> I would say that 95% of the time I am successful.

In school zones, if you're doing 1 mph over the limit, you should be
strung up and shot. 2 cents. We're talking about _kids_ here.
Children, fercrissakes.

> BUT, on the freeway?
> If I'm doing 5-7 mph over I'm still sitting still out there when
> everyone is wizzing past. I know that because everyone else does it,
> is not a good excuse, but dangit, I am not going to drive 65 while
> the rest of the world is driving 75-80.

Like I said above, if it poses a hazard to do the limit, then by all
means blend in. But by doing so, realize that you're also putting
yourself at risk for getting a ticket with points. Those are the
facts.

RichA > wrote in
:

> On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 14:44:11 GMT, Joe >
wrote:
>
>>"SVTKate" > wrote in
link.net:
>>
>>>
>>> "Brent P" > wrote
>>>
>>> *snipped*
>>>
>>>| What is the purpose of having so many laws such that people
cannot
>>>| get through the day without breaking laws? What is the purpose of
>>>| having laws that define common, reasonable behavior as illegal?
>>>| Many laws in this nation are only enforced selectively. Against
>>>| people who are not liked, or have a certain appearance, etc and
so
>>>| forth.
>>>
>>> Because without all of those laws, the jackasses in Washington
>>> wouldn't have a job making more.
>>> Your paragraph above Brent is, IMHO, right on the money.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>|
>>>| Emotional appeals. Even less. Do you obey 55 mph interstate speed
>>>| limits? I'll wager in any give day you commit more moving
>>>| violations than I do.
>>>|
>>>
>>> Again I agree. I always push the interstate speed limits 5-9 mph
>>> over. Out here, if the speed limit is 45, they drive 55-60.
>>> If it's 70, they are driving 80-85.
>>> I feel like an idiot allot of the time because everyone is passing
>>> me. It's not as though I don't WANT to go that fast, BUT I just do
>>> not want that ticket.
>>>
>>>
>>> Kate
>>
>>Kate, I really thought you had more sense than this. What did you
>>tell your kids when they learned to drive? That going 5mph over the
>>limit is just fine because "everybody does it"? Did you tell them
>>that the law is only a "suggestion"?
>
> Of course no one would, but then young people pay huge insurance
rates
> because they have no e-x-p-e-r-i-e-n-c-e. There is NO reason for an
> experienced driver not to drive 70-80mph on an uncrowded, dry
highway;
> None. Yet our speed limits stay at 60mph, crowded, uncrowded, rain
or
> shine.

You're simply wrong. The single reason is the law. Go above the
limit and risk getting a ticket with points.

> Some have said it is because people normally drive 10-15mph faster
> that they keep them at 60mph, which is fine, at least it acknowleges
> that people DO drive faster on average than the speed limit and
there
> is no major increase in danger from it.

Don't mix apples and oranges. Driving dangerously had nothing to do
with the speed limit.

> And, even if there is, there has to be a point at which you say, we
> are a car-driving society. We accept as a consequence that people
> will be injured and hurt in car accidents because of this. We can
> slow cars down to 40mph on highways and we know it "might" mitigate
> some fatalities, but we've rationalized that the risk of faster
speeds
> is paid back in the rewards of faster speeds, namely, getting where
> were going in a suitable period of time. There are some who think
> the sheer tedium of travelling very slow makes drivers worse
drivers.

So what? If you're a bad driver, you shouldn't be on the road until
you become a good driver.

> I would personally like them to do this; Raise speed limits on
> highways to 80mph, with the admonition that anyone caught going
> over that limit would be fined far more heavily than they are now.
> This is what they do in some countries in Europe. This would
> legalize the higher speed, would not encourage people to go faster
> than they already do, but, would mean someone going 80mph wouldn't
> face the possibility of a ticket for doing so. I think it would
also
> encourage people to develop a more disciplined driving style than
> they practice now.

Then do something about it. Write your legistlators and try to get it
enacted. Be empowered. Don't sit there and post drivel about how
unfair things are and not do anything about it.

> I'd keep speeds the same on city streets though and nail people's
> asses to the wall if they did things like run red lights. IMO,
> you should have your license suspended for things like that because
> they have inherently higher risk than simply going faster on a
highway
> that can support it.
> -Rich

So change things. If the current laws bother you so much, do
something to change them. Don't whine with the excuse that it's too
hard and nobody listens - that's just a cop out.

Bottom line - either abide by the law or do something to change it for
the better. Simply breaking it and whining that it's not a fair law
anyway is just plain lazy, cowardly bull****.

I remember talking to an old VDOT employee several years ago and he told
me how they determined speed limits before the design of roadways became
standardized. They observed the actual traffic speed, plugged those
numbers into an equation (nothing complicated I'm sure), rounded to the
nearest multiple of 5 mph and that number was the speed limit. Too bad
this still isn't the way it is done.

Joe wrote:
> "SVTKate" > wrote in
> link.net:
>
>
>>"Joe" > wrote
>>*snip*
>>| Kate, I really thought you had more sense than this. What did you
>>| tell your kids when they learned to drive? That going 5mph over
>>| the limit is just fine because "everybody does it"? Did you tell
>>| them that the law is only a "suggestion"?
>>
>>Well, Joe, thanks for the kind words. How much sense I have may be
>>questionable at times.
>
>
> I know the feeling.
>
>
>>You're right, about it being just a suggestion, and you have an
>>valid point. It IS the law. There is no arguing with that
>>whatsoever.
>
>
> That's my only point.
>
>
>>But seriously, how many poeple do you know that do the exact speed
>>limit? I mean that will admit to always going the limit.
>
>
> None. Myself included. I've taught my son that it's his duty to obey
> the laws. But when obeying the law puts him at risk, like when
> everybody's doing 90 in a 70, then he should "blend in" with the
> traffic so he doesn't pose a hazard to himself or anyone else. I've
> also told him that while doing so, he (and everyone else) risks
> getting a ticket with points. It's happened to me, and I'm sure it's
> happened to others.
>
>
>>In town, school zones and places like that, I try my damnedest to
>>drive the speed limit.
>>I would say that 95% of the time I am successful.
>
>
> In school zones, if you're doing 1 mph over the limit, you should be
> strung up and shot. 2 cents. We're talking about _kids_ here.
> Children, fercrissakes.
>
>
>>BUT, on the freeway?
>>If I'm doing 5-7 mph over I'm still sitting still out there when
>>everyone is wizzing past. I know that because everyone else does it,
>>is not a good excuse, but dangit, I am not going to drive 65 while
>>the rest of the world is driving 75-80.
>
>
> Like I said above, if it poses a hazard to do the limit, then by all
> means blend in. But by doing so, realize that you're also putting
> yourself at risk for getting a ticket with points. Those are the
> facts.

Damn...
We ARE on the same page!
(Even if my chapter IS on top LOL)

Good deal.

Kate

"Joe" > wrote in message
...
| "SVTKate" > wrote in
| link.net:
|
| >
| > "Joe" > wrote
| > *snip*
| >| Kate, I really thought you had more sense than this. What did you
| >| tell your kids when they learned to drive? That going 5mph over
| >| the limit is just fine because "everybody does it"? Did you tell
| >| them that the law is only a "suggestion"?
| >
| > Well, Joe, thanks for the kind words. How much sense I have may be
| > questionable at times.
|
| I know the feeling.
|
| > You're right, about it being just a suggestion, and you have an
| > valid point. It IS the law. There is no arguing with that
| > whatsoever.
|
| That's my only point.
|
| > But seriously, how many poeple do you know that do the exact speed
| > limit? I mean that will admit to always going the limit.
|
| None. Myself included. I've taught my son that it's his duty to obey
| the laws. But when obeying the law puts him at risk, like when
| everybody's doing 90 in a 70, then he should "blend in" with the
| traffic so he doesn't pose a hazard to himself or anyone else. I've
| also told him that while doing so, he (and everyone else) risks
| getting a ticket with points. It's happened to me, and I'm sure it's
| happened to others.
|
| > In town, school zones and places like that, I try my damnedest to
| > drive the speed limit.
| > I would say that 95% of the time I am successful.
|
| In school zones, if you're doing 1 mph over the limit, you should be
| strung up and shot. 2 cents. We're talking about _kids_ here.
| Children, fercrissakes.
|
| > BUT, on the freeway?
| > If I'm doing 5-7 mph over I'm still sitting still out there when
| > everyone is wizzing past. I know that because everyone else does it,
| > is not a good excuse, but dangit, I am not going to drive 65 while
| > the rest of the world is driving 75-80.
|
| Like I said above, if it poses a hazard to do the limit, then by all
| means blend in. But by doing so, realize that you're also putting
| yourself at risk for getting a ticket with points. Those are the
| facts.

Well, glad that's cleared up.


"SVTKate" > wrote in news:BTCae.12348
:

> Damn...
> We ARE on the same page!
> (Even if my chapter IS on top LOL)
>
> Good deal.
>
> Kate
>
> "Joe" > wrote in message
> ...
>| "SVTKate" > wrote in
>| link.net:
>|
>| >
>| > "Joe" > wrote
>| > *snip*
>| >| Kate, I really thought you had more sense than this. What did
you
>| >| tell your kids when they learned to drive? That going 5mph over
>| >| the limit is just fine because "everybody does it"? Did you
tell
>| >| them that the law is only a "suggestion"?
>| >
>| > Well, Joe, thanks for the kind words. How much sense I have may
be
>| > questionable at times.
>|
>| I know the feeling.
>|
>| > You're right, about it being just a suggestion, and you have an
>| > valid point. It IS the law. There is no arguing with that
>| > whatsoever.
>|
>| That's my only point.
>|
>| > But seriously, how many poeple do you know that do the exact
speed
>| > limit? I mean that will admit to always going the limit.
>|
>| None. Myself included. I've taught my son that it's his duty to
obey
>| the laws. But when obeying the law puts him at risk, like when
>| everybody's doing 90 in a 70, then he should "blend in" with the
>| traffic so he doesn't pose a hazard to himself or anyone else.
I've
>| also told him that while doing so, he (and everyone else) risks
>| getting a ticket with points. It's happened to me, and I'm sure
it's
>| happened to others.
>|
>| > In town, school zones and places like that, I try my damnedest to
>| > drive the speed limit.
>| > I would say that 95% of the time I am successful.
>|
>| In school zones, if you're doing 1 mph over the limit, you should
be
>| strung up and shot. 2 cents. We're talking about _kids_ here.
>| Children, fercrissakes.
>|
>| > BUT, on the freeway?
>| > If I'm doing 5-7 mph over I'm still sitting still out there when
>| > everyone is wizzing past. I know that because everyone else does
it,
>| > is not a good excuse, but dangit, I am not going to drive 65
while
>| > the rest of the world is driving 75-80.
>|
>| Like I said above, if it poses a hazard to do the limit, then by
all
>| means blend in. But by doing so, realize that you're also putting
>| yourself at risk for getting a ticket with points. Those are the
>| facts.
>
>
>

Within the last few years, they raised the speed limit on I-75 down
here to 70. It was 65, and everybody did 80-85, so they redid their
study and agreed that it was certainly safe to raise it to 70. So now
everybody does 80-90.


"Michael Johnson, PE" > wrote in
news
> I remember talking to an old VDOT employee several years ago and he
> told me how they determined speed limits before the design of
> roadways became standardized. They observed the actual traffic
> speed, plugged those numbers into an equation (nothing complicated
> I'm sure), rounded to the nearest multiple of 5 mph and that number
> was the speed limit. Too bad this still isn't the way it is done.
>
> Joe wrote:
>> "SVTKate" > wrote in
>> link.net:
>>
>>
>>>"Joe" > wrote
>>>*snip*
>>>| Kate, I really thought you had more sense than this. What did
>>>| you tell your kids when they learned to drive? That going 5mph
>>>| over the limit is just fine because "everybody does it"? Did you
>>>| tell them that the law is only a "suggestion"?
>>>
>>>Well, Joe, thanks for the kind words. How much sense I have may be
>>>questionable at times.
>>
>>
>> I know the feeling.
>>
>>
>>>You're right, about it being just a suggestion, and you have an
>>>valid point. It IS the law. There is no arguing with that
>>>whatsoever.
>>
>>
>> That's my only point.
>>
>>
>>>But seriously, how many poeple do you know that do the exact speed
>>>limit? I mean that will admit to always going the limit.
>>
>>
>> None. Myself included. I've taught my son that it's his duty to
>> obey the laws. But when obeying the law puts him at risk, like
>> when everybody's doing 90 in a 70, then he should "blend in" with
>> the traffic so he doesn't pose a hazard to himself or anyone else.
>> I've also told him that while doing so, he (and everyone else)
>> risks getting a ticket with points. It's happened to me, and I'm
>> sure it's happened to others.
>>
>>
>>>In town, school zones and places like that, I try my damnedest to
>>>drive the speed limit.
>>>I would say that 95% of the time I am successful.
>>
>>
>> In school zones, if you're doing 1 mph over the limit, you should
>> be strung up and shot. 2 cents. We're talking about _kids_ here.
>> Children, fercrissakes.
>>
>>
>>>BUT, on the freeway?
>>>If I'm doing 5-7 mph over I'm still sitting still out there when
>>>everyone is wizzing past. I know that because everyone else does
>>>it, is not a good excuse, but dangit, I am not going to drive 65
>>>while the rest of the world is driving 75-80.
>>
>>
>> Like I said above, if it poses a hazard to do the limit, then by
>> all means blend in. But by doing so, realize that you're also
>> putting yourself at risk for getting a ticket with points. Those
>> are the facts.
>

On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 23:20:25 GMT, Joe > wrote:

>RichA > wrote in
:
>
>> On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 14:44:11 GMT, Joe >
>wrote:
>>
>>>"SVTKate" > wrote in
hlink.net:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Brent P" > wrote
>>>>
>>>> *snipped*
>>>>
>>>>| What is the purpose of having so many laws such that people
>cannot
>>>>| get through the day without breaking laws? What is the purpose of
>>>>| having laws that define common, reasonable behavior as illegal?
>>>>| Many laws in this nation are only enforced selectively. Against
>>>>| people who are not liked, or have a certain appearance, etc and
>so
>>>>| forth.
>>>>
>>>> Because without all of those laws, the jackasses in Washington
>>>> wouldn't have a job making more.
>>>> Your paragraph above Brent is, IMHO, right on the money.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>|
>>>>| Emotional appeals. Even less. Do you obey 55 mph interstate speed
>>>>| limits? I'll wager in any give day you commit more moving
>>>>| violations than I do.
>>>>|
>>>>
>>>> Again I agree. I always push the interstate speed limits 5-9 mph
>>>> over. Out here, if the speed limit is 45, they drive 55-60.
>>>> If it's 70, they are driving 80-85.
>>>> I feel like an idiot allot of the time because everyone is passing
>>>> me. It's not as though I don't WANT to go that fast, BUT I just do
>>>> not want that ticket.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Kate
>>>
>>>Kate, I really thought you had more sense than this. What did you
>>>tell your kids when they learned to drive? That going 5mph over the
>>>limit is just fine because "everybody does it"? Did you tell them
>>>that the law is only a "suggestion"?
>>
>> Of course no one would, but then young people pay huge insurance
>rates
>> because they have no e-x-p-e-r-i-e-n-c-e. There is NO reason for an
>> experienced driver not to drive 70-80mph on an uncrowded, dry
>highway;
>> None. Yet our speed limits stay at 60mph, crowded, uncrowded, rain
>or
>> shine.
>
>You're simply wrong. The single reason is the law. Go above the
>limit and risk getting a ticket with points.
>
>> Some have said it is because people normally drive 10-15mph faster
>> that they keep them at 60mph, which is fine, at least it acknowleges
>> that people DO drive faster on average than the speed limit and
>there
>> is no major increase in danger from it.
>
>Don't mix apples and oranges. Driving dangerously had nothing to do
>with the speed limit.
>
>> And, even if there is, there has to be a point at which you say, we
>> are a car-driving society. We accept as a consequence that people
>> will be injured and hurt in car accidents because of this. We can
>> slow cars down to 40mph on highways and we know it "might" mitigate
>> some fatalities, but we've rationalized that the risk of faster
>speeds
>> is paid back in the rewards of faster speeds, namely, getting where
>> were going in a suitable period of time. There are some who think
>> the sheer tedium of travelling very slow makes drivers worse
>drivers.
>
>So what? If you're a bad driver, you shouldn't be on the road until
>you become a good driver.
>
>> I would personally like them to do this; Raise speed limits on
>> highways to 80mph, with the admonition that anyone caught going
>> over that limit would be fined far more heavily than they are now.
>> This is what they do in some countries in Europe. This would
>> legalize the higher speed, would not encourage people to go faster
>> than they already do, but, would mean someone going 80mph wouldn't
>> face the possibility of a ticket for doing so. I think it would
>also
>> encourage people to develop a more disciplined driving style than
>> they practice now.
>
>Then do something about it. Write your legistlators and try to get it
>enacted. Be empowered. Don't sit there and post drivel about how
>unfair things are and not do anything about it.
>
>> I'd keep speeds the same on city streets though and nail people's
>> asses to the wall if they did things like run red lights. IMO,
>> you should have your license suspended for things like that because
>> they have inherently higher risk than simply going faster on a
>highway
>> that can support it.
>> -Rich
>
>So change things. If the current laws bother you so much, do
>something to change them. Don't whine with the excuse that it's too
>hard and nobody listens - that's just a cop out.
>
>Bottom line - either abide by the law or do something to change it for
>the better. Simply breaking it and whining that it's not a fair law
>anyway is just plain lazy, cowardly bull****.

I guess you have to believe the politicians as well? Good luck.
When the conservatives wanted in in Ontario Canada, the talked about
raising the speed limit to 70mph, which most supported. They got in,
the idea was never raised again. They talked about allowing stores
(other than official government run ones) to sell liquor) and nearly
everyone supported it, except for the overpaid employees in the gov
stores. They got in, they never mentioned it again.
The only thing with regard to traffic that ever got passed by
politicians in Ontario was the implementation of photo radar and
people finally went nuts with hatred of it, and the slimy socialists
who brought it in had to back down and remove it.
If people haven't figured out that North America is becomming a worse
and worse "nanny state" every year, they are MISSING something.
-Rich