97 ZJ 5.2 cooling leak

On the way to work today I noticed some coolant smell and steam coming from under the hood. I checked at work and there was coolant on the passenger side of the engine. I stopped off at NAPA on the way home and got a couple of gallons of premix, filled the reservoir in the parking lot, and it was dry when I got home--the temperature redlined about a block from the house.

I can't find any obvious hose problems and it's too dark outside now to troubleshoot. My first guess is the upper heater hose coming loose from its attachment on the block.

FWIW, the dealer supposedly replaced all hoses at 75,000 miles--it's at 120,000 now. I know he missed the little short bypass hose that you have to pull the water pump to change because it broke around 100,000 and I replaced both it and the water pump at that time.

I intend to crank it up tomorrow morning and let it warm up and see if I can see where it's leaking.

Any other thoughts?

J. Clarke wrote:
> On the way to work today I noticed some coolant smell and steam
> coming from under the hood. I checked at work and there was coolant
> on the passenger side of the engine. I stopped off at NAPA on the
> way home and got a couple of gallons of premix, filled the reservoir
> in the parking lot, and it was dry when I got home--the temperature
> redlined about a block from the house.
>
> I can't find any obvious hose problems and it's too dark outside now
> to troubleshoot. My first guess is the upper heater hose coming
> loose from its attachment on the block.
>
> FWIW, the dealer supposedly replaced all hoses at 75,000 miles--it's
> at 120,000 now. I know he missed the little short bypass hose that
> you have to pull the water pump to change because it broke around
> 100,000 and I replaced both it and the water pump at that time.
>
> I intend to crank it up tomorrow morning and let it warm up and see
> if I can see where it's leaking.
>
> Any other thoughts?

Other than "you have a leak."

I had a smell of antifreeze one day and never could find it
till I stopped outside the bar one evening and decided to
open the hood and look.

Dang hose ****ed all over me!

Just a pinhole in the return line.
I cut an inch off the hose and stuck it back on.
Bought a new hose the next day and put it in the jeep.
Still running the old hose. :/ but I have a spare.

My usual aproach is to dry and clean everything
then after the jeep warms up going around with a
piece of toilet paper and looking for anything wet.

Worst case is a leak at the pump. Hard to spot till
it starts ****ing all over the place.

--
DougW

On Friday, February 7, 2014 6:23:16 PM UTC-5, DougW wrote:
> J. Clarke wrote:
>
> > On the way to work today I noticed some coolant smell and steam
>
> > coming from under the hood. I checked at work and there was coolant
>
> > on the passenger side of the engine. I stopped off at NAPA on the
>
> > way home and got a couple of gallons of premix, filled the reservoir
>
> > in the parking lot, and it was dry when I got home--the temperature
>
> > redlined about a block from the house.
>
> >
>
> > I can't find any obvious hose problems and it's too dark outside now
>
> > to troubleshoot. My first guess is the upper heater hose coming
>
> > loose from its attachment on the block.
>
> >
>
> > FWIW, the dealer supposedly replaced all hoses at 75,000 miles--it's
>
> > at 120,000 now. I know he missed the little short bypass hose that
>
> > you have to pull the water pump to change because it broke around
>
> > 100,000 and I replaced both it and the water pump at that time.
>
> >
>
> > I intend to crank it up tomorrow morning and let it warm up and see
>
> > if I can see where it's leaking.
>
> >
>
> > Any other thoughts?
>
>
>
> Other than "you have a leak."
>
>
>
> I had a smell of antifreeze one day and never could find it
>
> till I stopped outside the bar one evening and decided to
>
> open the hood and look.
>
>
>
> Dang hose ****ed all over me!
>
>
>
> Just a pinhole in the return line.
>
> I cut an inch off the hose and stuck it back on.
>
> Bought a new hose the next day and put it in the jeep.
>
> Still running the old hose. :/ but I have a spare.
>
>
>
> My usual aproach is to dry and clean everything
>
> then after the jeep warms up going around with a
>
> piece of toilet paper and looking for anything wet.
>
>
>
> Worst case is a leak at the pump. Hard to spot till
>
> it starts ****ing all over the place.
>
>
>
> --
>
> DougW

This morning took a look. Radiator full, expansion tank empty. Filled the expansion tank, started it up and let it come to temperature. No sign of a leak, but no heat and the top hose took a long time to get hot. Shut it off and it sucked the coolant out of the expansion tank down to the "add" mark and seemed to stop. I topped it up and figure I'll give it an hour or so to cool down and for the feeling to return to my fingers and then take another look.

On Saturday, February 8, 2014 7:52:14 AM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Friday, February 7, 2014 6:23:16 PM UTC-5, DougW wrote:
>
> > J. Clarke wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > On the way to work today I noticed some coolant smell and steam
>
> >
>
> > > coming from under the hood. I checked at work and there was coolant
>
> >
>
> > > on the passenger side of the engine. I stopped off at NAPA on the
>
> >
>
> > > way home and got a couple of gallons of premix, filled the reservoir
>
> >
>
> > > in the parking lot, and it was dry when I got home--the temperature
>
> >
>
> > > redlined about a block from the house.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > I can't find any obvious hose problems and it's too dark outside now
>
> >
>
> > > to troubleshoot. My first guess is the upper heater hose coming
>
> >
>
> > > loose from its attachment on the block.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > FWIW, the dealer supposedly replaced all hoses at 75,000 miles--it's
>
> >
>
> > > at 120,000 now. I know he missed the little short bypass hose that
>
> >
>
> > > you have to pull the water pump to change because it broke around
>
> >
>
> > > 100,000 and I replaced both it and the water pump at that time.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > I intend to crank it up tomorrow morning and let it warm up and see
>
> >
>
> > > if I can see where it's leaking.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Any other thoughts?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Other than "you have a leak."
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I had a smell of antifreeze one day and never could find it
>
> >
>
> > till I stopped outside the bar one evening and decided to
>
> >
>
> > open the hood and look.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Dang hose ****ed all over me!
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Just a pinhole in the return line.
>
> >
>
> > I cut an inch off the hose and stuck it back on.
>
> >
>
> > Bought a new hose the next day and put it in the jeep.
>
> >
>
> > Still running the old hose. :/ but I have a spare.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > My usual aproach is to dry and clean everything
>
> >
>
> > then after the jeep warms up going around with a
>
> >
>
> > piece of toilet paper and looking for anything wet.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Worst case is a leak at the pump. Hard to spot till
>
> >
>
> > it starts ****ing all over the place.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > --
>
> >
>
> > DougW
>
>
>
> This morning took a look. Radiator full, expansion tank empty. Filled the expansion tank, started it up and let it come to temperature. No sign of a leak, but no heat and the top hose took a long time to get hot. Shut it off and it sucked the coolant out of the expansion tank down to the "add" mark and seemed to stop. I topped it up and figure I'll give it an hour or so to cool down and for the feeling to return to my fingers and then take another look.

And it gets weirder. An hour later the expansion tank was empty. I topped it up and ran the engine warm again. No evident leaks. There's glycol dripping off the hood that's made a little puddle on the firewall, and a little puddle about the same size underneath--but that could have been some I spilled filling up the expansion tank. With the engine off there's no hiss or other sound suggestive of leakage.

J. Clarke wrote:

<snip>

>> This morning took a look. Radiator full, expansion tank empty.
>> Filled the expansion tank, started it up and let it come to
>> temperature. No sign of a leak, but no heat and the top hose took a
>> long time to get hot. Shut it off and it sucked the coolant out of
>> the expansion tank down to the "add" mark and seemed to stop. I
>> topped it up and figure I'll give it an hour or so to cool down and
>> for the feeling to return to my fingers and then take another look.
>
> And it gets weirder. An hour later the expansion tank was empty. I
> topped it up and ran the engine warm again. No evident leaks.
> There's glycol dripping off the hood that's made a little puddle on
> the firewall, and a little puddle about the same size underneath--but
> that could have been some I spilled filling up the expansion tank.
> With the engine off there's no hiss or other sound suggestive of
> leakage.

Usually that means the system had air in it, fairly common after
refilling to have to top the expansion tank up a few times.

Closed system, the radiator should be full and the expansion
tank should just move between low and high.

It's going to have to get up to high temp before there is
enough pressure in the system to make a small leak visible.
That and sometimes the hoses have to warm up enough for little
holes to open up. A good hard squeeze on the top radiator
hose can make things show up.

I have had lost coolant due to a leak in the expansion hose
right by the radiator cap. Also had a problem with the cap
itself leaking (not holding pressure and pushing fluid out
into the expansion tank)

A leaky expansion tank will also slowly drain the system.
But that usually makes a big mess.

Just to make sure it's not a bigger problem, what color is the oil?

Finding those leaks is a real pain. Didn't find my last one
till it up and ****ed on me.

On Saturday, February 8, 2014 11:50:44 AM UTC-5, DougW wrote:
> J. Clarke wrote:
>
>
>
> <snip>
>
>
>
> >> This morning took a look. Radiator full, expansion tank empty.
>
> >> Filled the expansion tank, started it up and let it come to
>
> >> temperature. No sign of a leak, but no heat and the top hose took a
>
> >> long time to get hot. Shut it off and it sucked the coolant out of
>
> >> the expansion tank down to the "add" mark and seemed to stop. I
>
> >> topped it up and figure I'll give it an hour or so to cool down and
>
> >> for the feeling to return to my fingers and then take another look.
>
> >
>
> > And it gets weirder. An hour later the expansion tank was empty. I
>
> > topped it up and ran the engine warm again. No evident leaks.
>
> > There's glycol dripping off the hood that's made a little puddle on
>
> > the firewall, and a little puddle about the same size underneath--but
>
> > that could have been some I spilled filling up the expansion tank.
>
> > With the engine off there's no hiss or other sound suggestive of
>
> > leakage.
>
>
>
> Usually that means the system had air in it, fairly common after
>
> refilling to have to top the expansion tank up a few times.
>
>
>
> Closed system, the radiator should be full and the expansion
>
> tank should just move between low and high.
>
>
>
> It's going to have to get up to high temp before there is
>
> enough pressure in the system to make a small leak visible.
>
> That and sometimes the hoses have to warm up enough for little
>
> holes to open up. A good hard squeeze on the top radiator
>
> hose can make things show up.
>
>
>
> I have had lost coolant due to a leak in the expansion hose
>
> right by the radiator cap. Also had a problem with the cap
>
> itself leaking (not holding pressure and pushing fluid out
>
> into the expansion tank)
>
>
>
> A leaky expansion tank will also slowly drain the system.
>
> But that usually makes a big mess.
>
>
>
> Just to make sure it's not a bigger problem, what color is the oil?
>
>
>
> Finding those leaks is a real pain. Didn't find my last one
>
> till it up and ****ed on me.

Oil's black--needs changing but no water in it (lost a tranny like that back in the '60s--drove a Lincoln through a puddle that turned out to be deeper than I expected and it went right down the dipstick hole).

Took it Midas (don't laugh--the one near here has a really good mechanic if it's not his day off--today, alas, was his day off) and they told me it needed a new radiator on the basis of five minutes inspection and on the evidence of coolant dripping. Since it's dripping from everywhere right now I didn't buy the evidence.

Plan now is to toss in a bottle of Bars Leaks and keep an eye on it and see what happens. If it's going down fast I'll take it to the dealer, who is a bumbling incompetent but at least goes by the book, which is chock full of diagnostic procedures, if it's going down slow I'll wait until it starts going down fast. And yeah, I know stop leak type products can plug the radiator. Given that the temperature was zero this morning and supposedly it needs a new radiator anyway, I'll take my chances.

J. Clarke wrote:

> Oil's black--needs changing but no water in it (lost a tranny like that
> back in the '60s--drove a Lincoln through a puddle that turned out to be
> deeper than I expected and it went right down the dipstick hole).
>
> Took it Midas (don't laugh--the one near here has a really good mechanic
> if it's not his day off--today, alas, was his day off) and they told me it
> needed a new radiator on the basis of five minutes inspection and on the
> evidence of coolant dripping. Since it's dripping from everywhere right
> now I didn't buy the evidence.
>
> Plan now is to toss in a bottle of Bars Leaks and keep an eye on it and
> see what happens. If it's going down fast I'll take it to the dealer, who
> is a bumbling incompetent but at least goes by the book, which is chock
> full of diagnostic procedures, if it's going down slow I'll wait until it
> starts going down fast. And yeah, I know stop leak type products can plug
> the radiator. Given that the temperature was zero this morning and
> supposedly it needs a new radiator anyway, I'll take my chances.
>

There is a fairly simple way to localize the leak location that works best
in cold weather - something all too common around here lately.

Wait until it's dark out. Wipe all the hoses down - just to get any puddles
an extraneous dribbles off. With the hood up, dark location, freezing your
butt off, fill the radiator. Don't fill the overflow; pull the cap and fill
the actual radiator. All this with the engine dead cold.

Get a good flashlight with a bright beam. With the hood up, start the
engine and play the flashlight back and forth across the engine bay but not
hitting the engine or body. As soon as the engine starts to warm up you
should be able to pick up the steam/spray in the beam of the flashlight.
That will get to within a few inches of the leak but all you really need to
know is which piece of the system is leaking.

This works best in the winter but from the weather charts is look like
anyplace North of Key West will probably work this week...

--
Will Honea

Will Honea wrote:
> J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> Oil's black--needs changing but no water in it (lost a tranny like
>> that back in the '60s--drove a Lincoln through a puddle that turned
>> out to be deeper than I expected and it went right down the dipstick
>> hole).
>>
>> Took it Midas (don't laugh--the one near here has a really good
>> mechanic if it's not his day off--today, alas, was his day off) and
>> they told me it needed a new radiator on the basis of five minutes
>> inspection and on the evidence of coolant dripping. Since it's
>> dripping from everywhere right now I didn't buy the evidence.
>>
>> Plan now is to toss in a bottle of Bars Leaks and keep an eye on it
>> and see what happens. If it's going down fast I'll take it to the
>> dealer, who is a bumbling incompetent but at least goes by the book,
>> which is chock full of diagnostic procedures, if it's going down
>> slow I'll wait until it starts going down fast. And yeah, I know
>> stop leak type products can plug the radiator. Given that the
>> temperature was zero this morning and supposedly it needs a new
>> radiator anyway, I'll take my chances.
>>
>
> There is a fairly simple way to localize the leak location that works
> best in cold weather - something all too common around here lately.
>
> Wait until it's dark out. Wipe all the hoses down - just to get any
> puddles an extraneous dribbles off. With the hood up, dark location,
> freezing your butt off, fill the radiator. Don't fill the overflow;
> pull the cap and fill the actual radiator. All this with the engine
> dead cold.
>
> Get a good flashlight with a bright beam. With the hood up, start the
> engine and play the flashlight back and forth across the engine bay
> but not hitting the engine or body. As soon as the engine starts to
> warm up you should be able to pick up the steam/spray in the beam of
> the flashlight. That will get to within a few inches of the leak but
> all you really need to know is which piece of the system is leaking.
>
> This works best in the winter but from the weather charts is look like
> anyplace North of Key West will probably work this week...

Another option is UV dye, you need that and a black light.
Some coolants already glow under black light.

On Saturday, February 8, 2014 3:21:35 PM UTC-5, DougW wrote:
> Will Honea wrote:
>
> > J. Clarke wrote:
>
> >
>
> >> Oil's black--needs changing but no water in it (lost a tranny like
>
> >> that back in the '60s--drove a Lincoln through a puddle that turned
>
> >> out to be deeper than I expected and it went right down the dipstick
>
> >> hole).
>
> >>
>
> >> Took it Midas (don't laugh--the one near here has a really good
>
> >> mechanic if it's not his day off--today, alas, was his day off) and
>
> >> they told me it needed a new radiator on the basis of five minutes
>
> >> inspection and on the evidence of coolant dripping. Since it's
>
> >> dripping from everywhere right now I didn't buy the evidence.
>
> >>
>
> >> Plan now is to toss in a bottle of Bars Leaks and keep an eye on it
>
> >> and see what happens. If it's going down fast I'll take it to the
>
> >> dealer, who is a bumbling incompetent but at least goes by the book,
>
> >> which is chock full of diagnostic procedures, if it's going down
>
> >> slow I'll wait until it starts going down fast. And yeah, I know
>
> >> stop leak type products can plug the radiator. Given that the
>
> >> temperature was zero this morning and supposedly it needs a new
>
> >> radiator anyway, I'll take my chances.
>
> >>
>
> >
>
> > There is a fairly simple way to localize the leak location that works
>
> > best in cold weather - something all too common around here lately.
>
> >
>
> > Wait until it's dark out. Wipe all the hoses down - just to get any
>
> > puddles an extraneous dribbles off. With the hood up, dark location,
>
> > freezing your butt off, fill the radiator. Don't fill the overflow;
>
> > pull the cap and fill the actual radiator. All this with the engine
>
> > dead cold.
>
> >
>
> > Get a good flashlight with a bright beam. With the hood up, start the
>
> > engine and play the flashlight back and forth across the engine bay
>
> > but not hitting the engine or body. As soon as the engine starts to
>
> > warm up you should be able to pick up the steam/spray in the beam of
>
> > the flashlight. That will get to within a few inches of the leak but
>
> > all you really need to know is which piece of the system is leaking.
>
> >
>
> > This works best in the winter but from the weather charts is look like
>
> > anyplace North of Key West will probably work this week...
>
>
>
> Another option is UV dye, you need that and a black light.
>
> Some coolants already glow under black light.

I'm pretty sure the stuff I just put in glows under blacklight. It hurts my eyes just watching it go in. Anyway, for now things seem to be at least somewhat under control. After I got back from Midas I let it cool down and it stopped at the "full" mark on the expansion tank. I had somewhere I had to go so I went, and it's been cooling for an hour since, still at the "full" mark.

I'm starting to think I just let a slow leak get ahead of me and it finally decided "enough".

Now if I can find my blacklight--I've got one here somewhere unless I left it at my last job--leaving there was chaotic.

J. Clarke wrote:

> Now if I can find my blacklight--I've got one here somewhere unless I
> left it at my last job--leaving there was chaotic.

Used to use a big ol 4" one made for haloween till I sorta drove over
it.

Picked up one of these for 4$ at a flea market.
http://www.amazon.com/BL-6-Portable-.../dp/B000IAECQU

These look kinda cool and probably don't eat the batteries
so quickly.
http://www.amazon.com/Handheld-Porta.../dp/B00139ZYDK