Witness: Trayvon Martin attacked Zimmerman

On Mar 24, 4:46*pm, (Capt. Justice) wrote:
> Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman
> **********************.
> Updated: Friday, 23 Mar 2012, 6:19 PM
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *.
> ORLANDO - A witness we haven't
> heard from before paints a much different picture than we've seen so far
> of what happened the night 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot and
> killed.
> ********************************.
> The night of that shooting, police say there was a witness who saw it
> all.
>
> * * * * * * * * * * * . Our sister
> station, FOX 35 in Orlando, has spoken to that witness.
> ********************************.
> What Sanford Police investigators have in the folder, they put together
> on the killing of Trayvon Martin few know about.
>
> The file now sits in the hands of the state attorney. Now that file is
> just weeks away from being opened to a grand jury. It shows more now
> about why police believed that night that George Zimmerman shouldn't
> have gone to jail.
>
> Zimmerman called 911 and told dispatchers he was following a teen. The
> dispatcher told Zimmerman not to.
> And from that moment to the shooting, details are few.
>
> * * * * * * * * * * * . * But one
> man's testimony could be key for the police.
>
> "The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me:
> 'help, help and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.
>
>
> Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; * * * * * . * Zimmerman was
> in red.
>
> The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't not want
> to be shown on camera.
>
> His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up
> Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of
> Zimmerman.
>
> "When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up
> the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was
> dead at that point," John said.
>
> Zimmerman says the shooting was self defense. According to information
> released on the Sanford city website, Zimmerman said he was going back
> to his SUV when he was attacked by the teen. Sanford police say
> Zimmerman was bloody in his face and head, and the back of his shirt was
> wet and had grass stains, indicating a struggle took place before the
> shooting.
> ************************************************** ********http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/new...tin-attacked-z...

Most interesting!!!

On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 05:47:18 -0700 (PDT), walt tonne
> wrote:

>On Mar 24, 4:46*pm, (Capt. Justice) wrote:
>> Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman
>> **********************.
>> Updated: Friday, 23 Mar 2012, 6:19 PM
>> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *.
>> ORLANDO - A witness we haven't
>> heard from before paints a much different picture than we've seen so far
>> of what happened the night 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot and
>> killed.
>> ********************************.
>> The night of that shooting, police say there was a witness who saw it
>> all.
>>
>> * * * * * * * * * * * . Our sister
>> station, FOX 35 in Orlando, has spoken to that witness.
>> ********************************.
>> What Sanford Police investigators have in the folder, they put together
>> on the killing of Trayvon Martin few know about.
>>
>> The file now sits in the hands of the state attorney. Now that file is
>> just weeks away from being opened to a grand jury. It shows more now
>> about why police believed that night that George Zimmerman shouldn't
>> have gone to jail.
>>
>> Zimmerman called 911 and told dispatchers he was following a teen. The
>> dispatcher told Zimmerman not to.
>> And from that moment to the shooting, details are few.
>>
>> * * * * * * * * * * * . * But one
>> man's testimony could be key for the police.
>>
>> "The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me:
>> 'help, help and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.
>>
>>
>> Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; * * * * * . * Zimmerman was
>> in red.
>>
>> The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't not want
>> to be shown on camera.
>>
>> His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up
>> Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of
>> Zimmerman.
>>
>> "When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up
>> the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was
>> dead at that point," John said.
>>
>> Zimmerman says the shooting was self defense. According to information
>> released on the Sanford city website, Zimmerman said he was going back
>> to his SUV when he was attacked by the teen. Sanford police say
>> Zimmerman was bloody in his face and head, and the back of his shirt was
>> wet and had grass stains, indicating a struggle took place before the
>> shooting.
>> ************************************************** ********http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/new...tin-attacked-z...
>
>Most interesting!!!


Here's what is REALLY interesting about this bull**** claim.


An anonymous source named "John" reporting via Fox. No problem with
credibility there.

Now -- let's stop just a minute and review this bull**** claim.

According the John and Fox, the cops found Zimmerman with a bloody
nose and lacerations to the back of his head.

I am an Advanced Life Support - Cardiac EMT with our local volunteer
rescue squad. We are a bunch of country bumpkins -- not the
sophisticated, high-class emergency services people like those in
Sanford -- HOWEVER -- if a cop in our county found an assault victim
with a bloody nose and lacerations to the back of his head, the cop
would call us. We would respond, slap a C-collar on the patient,
strap him to a backboard, and check him out for cranial hemorrhaging,
which is a real danger in the case of blows to the head.

In fact, last week I ran two such calls -- one to the jail where two
guys were brought in and one knocked the other one down on a concrete
floor, and, a domestic dispute in which the girl friend kicked the
**** out of the boy friend, jumped on top of him, and slammed his head
into the floor a few times.


But there's no indication in anything that EMS was called to treat
Zimmerman who supposedly had the **** beat out of him. This fact alone
makes the "Zimmerman was beaten up" story an obivous bull**** story.
If he had a bloody nose OR wounds to the head, EMS would have been
called. They weren't. He was not assaulted.

Of course, maybe we ol' country boys are smarter and more professional
than the clowns in Sanford, FL, emergency services. You guess?

On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 08:58:09 -0400, Kickin' Ass and Takin' Names
> wrote:

>On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 05:47:18 -0700 (PDT), walt tonne
> wrote:
>
>>On Mar 24, 4:46*pm, (Capt. Justice) wrote:
>>> Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman
>>> **********************.
>>> Updated: Friday, 23 Mar 2012, 6:19 PM
>>> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *.
>>> ORLANDO - A witness we haven't
>>> heard from before paints a much different picture than we've seen so far
>>> of what happened the night 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot and
>>> killed.
>>> ********************************.
>>> The night of that shooting, police say there was a witness who saw it
>>> all.
>>>
>>> * * * * * * * * * * * . Our sister
>>> station, FOX 35 in Orlando, has spoken to that witness.
>>> ********************************.
>>> What Sanford Police investigators have in the folder, they put together
>>> on the killing of Trayvon Martin few know about.
>>>
>>> The file now sits in the hands of the state attorney. Now that file is
>>> just weeks away from being opened to a grand jury. It shows more now
>>> about why police believed that night that George Zimmerman shouldn't
>>> have gone to jail.
>>>
>>> Zimmerman called 911 and told dispatchers he was following a teen. The
>>> dispatcher told Zimmerman not to.
>>> And from that moment to the shooting, details are few.
>>>
>>> * * * * * * * * * * * . * But one
>>> man's testimony could be key for the police.
>>>
>>> "The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me:
>>> 'help, help and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.
>>>
>>>
>>> Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; * * * * * . * Zimmerman was
>>> in red.
>>>
>>> The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't not want
>>> to be shown on camera.
>>>
>>> His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up
>>> Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of
>>> Zimmerman.
>>>
>>> "When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up
>>> the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was
>>> dead at that point," John said.
>>>
>>> Zimmerman says the shooting was self defense. According to information
>>> released on the Sanford city website, Zimmerman said he was going back
>>> to his SUV when he was attacked by the teen. Sanford police say
>>> Zimmerman was bloody in his face and head, and the back of his shirt was
>>> wet and had grass stains, indicating a struggle took place before the
>>> shooting.
>>> ************************************************** ********http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/new...tin-attacked-z...
>>
>>Most interesting!!!
>
>
>Here's what is REALLY interesting about this bull**** claim.
>
>
>An anonymous source named "John" reporting via Fox. No problem with
>credibility there.
>
>Now -- let's stop just a minute and review this bull**** claim.
>
>According the John and Fox, the cops found Zimmerman with a bloody
>nose and lacerations to the back of his head.
>
>I am an Advanced Life Support - Cardiac EMT with our local volunteer
>rescue squad. We are a bunch of country bumpkins -- not the
>sophisticated, high-class emergency services people like those in
>Sanford -- HOWEVER -- if a cop in our county found an assault victim
>with a bloody nose and lacerations to the back of his head, the cop
>would call us. We would respond, slap a C-collar on the patient,
>strap him to a backboard, and check him out for cranial hemorrhaging,
>which is a real danger in the case of blows to the head.

Not if he doesn't want to go, you won't. And the cops didn't "find"
Z, they found the black kid with a hole in him. Z didn't need any
medical attention, and was up walking around.
>
>In fact, last week I ran two such calls -- one to the jail where two
>guys were brought in and one knocked the other one down on a concrete
>floor, and, a domestic dispute in which the girl friend kicked the
>**** out of the boy friend, jumped on top of him, and slammed his head
>into the floor a few times.
>
>But there's no indication in anything that EMS was called to treat
>Zimmerman who supposedly had the **** beat out of him.

No, he didn't. He got hit a few times, and then ended the attack
himself, with his gun, at least according to the current scenario. You
can do that in a self defense situation, you don't have to be attacked
with equal force.


>This fact alone
>makes the "Zimmerman was beaten up" story an obivous bull**** story.

He was attacked, supposedly. He ended the attack by superior use of
force.

>If he had a bloody nose OR wounds to the head, EMS would have been
>called. They weren't. He was not assaulted.

Why call EMS for someone who is standing there telling you he doesn't
need any help (and presumeably won't pay for it even if it shows up?)

>Of course, maybe we ol' country boys are smarter and more professional
>than the clowns in Sanford, FL, emergency services. You guess?

"Dave Head" > wrote in message
news
> On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 08:58:09 -0400, Kickin' Ass and Takin' Names
> > wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 05:47:18 -0700 (PDT), walt tonne
> wrote:
>>
>>>On Mar 24, 4:46 pm, (Capt. Justice) wrote:
>>>> Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman
>>>> .
>>>> Updated: Friday, 23 Mar 2012, 6:19 PM
>>>> .
>>>> ORLANDO - A witness we haven't
>>>> heard from before paints a much different picture than we've seen so
>>>> far
>>>> of what happened the night 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot and
>>>> killed.
>>>> .
>>>> The night of that shooting, police say there was a witness who saw it
>>>> all.
>>>>
>>>> . Our sister
>>>> station, FOX 35 in Orlando, has spoken to that witness.
>>>> .
>>>> What Sanford Police investigators have in the folder, they put together
>>>> on the killing of Trayvon Martin few know about.
>>>>
>>>> The file now sits in the hands of the state attorney. Now that file is
>>>> just weeks away from being opened to a grand jury. It shows more now
>>>> about why police believed that night that George Zimmerman shouldn't
>>>> have gone to jail.
>>>>
>>>> Zimmerman called 911 and told dispatchers he was following a teen. The
>>>> dispatcher told Zimmerman not to.
>>>> And from that moment to the shooting, details are few.
>>>>
>>>> . But one
>>>> man's testimony could be key for the police.
>>>>
>>>> "The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me:
>>>> 'help, help and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; . Zimmerman was
>>>> in red.
>>>>
>>>> The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't not want
>>>> to be shown on camera.
>>>>
>>>> His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up
>>>> Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of
>>>> Zimmerman.
>>>>
>>>> "When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up
>>>> the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was
>>>> dead at that point," John said.
>>>>
>>>> Zimmerman says the shooting was self defense. According to information
>>>> released on the Sanford city website, Zimmerman said he was going back
>>>> to his SUV when he was attacked by the teen. Sanford police say
>>>> Zimmerman was bloody in his face and head, and the back of his shirt
>>>> was
>>>> wet and had grass stains, indicating a struggle took place before the
>>>> shooting.
>>>> http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/new...tin-attacked-z...
>>>
>>>Most interesting!!!
>>
>>
>>Here's what is REALLY interesting about this bull**** claim.
>>
>>
>>An anonymous source named "John" reporting via Fox. No problem with
>>credibility there.
>>
>>Now -- let's stop just a minute and review this bull**** claim.
>>
>>According the John and Fox, the cops found Zimmerman with a bloody
>>nose and lacerations to the back of his head.
>>
>>I am an Advanced Life Support - Cardiac EMT with our local volunteer
>>rescue squad. We are a bunch of country bumpkins -- not the
>>sophisticated, high-class emergency services people like those in
>>Sanford -- HOWEVER -- if a cop in our county found an assault victim
>>with a bloody nose and lacerations to the back of his head, the cop
>>would call us. We would respond, slap a C-collar on the patient,
>>strap him to a backboard, and check him out for cranial hemorrhaging,
>>which is a real danger in the case of blows to the head.
>
> Not if he doesn't want to go, you won't. And the cops didn't "find"
> Z, they found the black kid with a hole in him. Z didn't need any
> medical attention, and was up walking around.
>>
>>In fact, last week I ran two such calls -- one to the jail where two
>>guys were brought in and one knocked the other one down on a concrete
>>floor, and, a domestic dispute in which the girl friend kicked the
>>**** out of the boy friend, jumped on top of him, and slammed his head
>>into the floor a few times.
>>
>>But there's no indication in anything that EMS was called to treat
>>Zimmerman who supposedly had the **** beat out of him.
>
> No, he didn't. He got hit a few times, and then ended the attack
> himself, with his gun, at least according to the current scenario. You
> can do that in a self defense situation, you don't have to be attacked
> with equal force.
>
>
>>This fact alone
>>makes the "Zimmerman was beaten up" story an obivous bull**** story.
>
> He was attacked, supposedly. He ended the attack by superior use of
> force.
>
>>If he had a bloody nose OR wounds to the head, EMS would have been
>>called. They weren't. He was not assaulted.
>
> Why call EMS for someone who is standing there telling you he doesn't
> need any help (and presumeably won't pay for it even if it shows up?)
>

Someone with an head injury is typically not qualified to make a judgment on
their physical condition. FWIW most high school sports programs have set
protocols to deal with this eventuality. (hint it does invovle EMS). Even
pro sports have come to realize this eventuality,.

On 3/25/2012 10:03 PM, NotMe wrote:

> Someone with an head injury is typically not qualified to make a judgment on
> their physical condition. FWIW most high school sports programs have set
> protocols to deal with this eventuality. (hint it does invovle EMS). Even
> pro sports have come to realize this eventuality,.
>
>

Dunno about the rest of the country, but there is no requirement
to be examined, or be transported by EMS in Houston.
They may suggest that one should do that, but they can't force you.
Here, the price of an ambulance is quite high. Over $500 as I recall.
I know myself, I'm gonna have to be in pretty bad shape to let anyone
cart me off. I'm cheap that way... :/ I'll drive myself unless I'm
unable.

If the testimony is correct, and this young guy was whacking security
buoy up side the head before he got shot, it's going to take a serious
licking to require an ambulance. Well, unless maybe one is a girly man..

Heck, I've been attacked with nunchucks up side the head. Left
big knots for a few days. When I called the police to report
the attack, "it was actually a robbery", no one suggested that I
go to the hospital.
So unless they wanted him to go somewhere to gather evidence from/off
him, I don't find it unusual at all that he would not be transported to
the hospital. Obviously they came to the conclusion he wasn't
really hurt too bad. Or bad enough to go to the hospital anyway..

On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 22:03:01 -0500, "NotMe" > wrote:

>
>"Dave Head" > wrote in message
>news
>> On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 08:58:09 -0400, Kickin' Ass and Takin' Names
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 05:47:18 -0700 (PDT), walt tonne
> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Mar 24, 4:46 pm, (Capt. Justice) wrote:
>>>>> Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman
>>>>> .
>>>>> Updated: Friday, 23 Mar 2012, 6:19 PM
>>>>> .
>>>>> ORLANDO - A witness we haven't
>>>>> heard from before paints a much different picture than we've seen so
>>>>> far
>>>>> of what happened the night 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot and
>>>>> killed.
>>>>> .
>>>>> The night of that shooting, police say there was a witness who saw it
>>>>> all.
>>>>>
>>>>> . Our sister
>>>>> station, FOX 35 in Orlando, has spoken to that witness.
>>>>> .
>>>>> What Sanford Police investigators have in the folder, they put together
>>>>> on the killing of Trayvon Martin few know about.
>>>>>
>>>>> The file now sits in the hands of the state attorney. Now that file is
>>>>> just weeks away from being opened to a grand jury. It shows more now
>>>>> about why police believed that night that George Zimmerman shouldn't
>>>>> have gone to jail.
>>>>>
>>>>> Zimmerman called 911 and told dispatchers he was following a teen. The
>>>>> dispatcher told Zimmerman not to.
>>>>> And from that moment to the shooting, details are few.
>>>>>
>>>>> . But one
>>>>> man's testimony could be key for the police.
>>>>>
>>>>> "The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me:
>>>>> 'help, help and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; . Zimmerman was
>>>>> in red.
>>>>>
>>>>> The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't not want
>>>>> to be shown on camera.
>>>>>
>>>>> His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up
>>>>> Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of
>>>>> Zimmerman.
>>>>>
>>>>> "When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up
>>>>> the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was
>>>>> dead at that point," John said.
>>>>>
>>>>> Zimmerman says the shooting was self defense. According to information
>>>>> released on the Sanford city website, Zimmerman said he was going back
>>>>> to his SUV when he was attacked by the teen. Sanford police say
>>>>> Zimmerman was bloody in his face and head, and the back of his shirt
>>>>> was
>>>>> wet and had grass stains, indicating a struggle took place before the
>>>>> shooting.
>>>>> http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/new...tin-attacked-z...
>>>>
>>>>Most interesting!!!
>>>
>>>
>>>Here's what is REALLY interesting about this bull**** claim.
>>>
>>>
>>>An anonymous source named "John" reporting via Fox. No problem with
>>>credibility there.
>>>
>>>Now -- let's stop just a minute and review this bull**** claim.
>>>
>>>According the John and Fox, the cops found Zimmerman with a bloody
>>>nose and lacerations to the back of his head.
>>>
>>>I am an Advanced Life Support - Cardiac EMT with our local volunteer
>>>rescue squad. We are a bunch of country bumpkins -- not the
>>>sophisticated, high-class emergency services people like those in
>>>Sanford -- HOWEVER -- if a cop in our county found an assault victim
>>>with a bloody nose and lacerations to the back of his head, the cop
>>>would call us. We would respond, slap a C-collar on the patient,
>>>strap him to a backboard, and check him out for cranial hemorrhaging,
>>>which is a real danger in the case of blows to the head.
>>
>> Not if he doesn't want to go, you won't. And the cops didn't "find"
>> Z, they found the black kid with a hole in him. Z didn't need any
>> medical attention, and was up walking around.
>>>
>>>In fact, last week I ran two such calls -- one to the jail where two
>>>guys were brought in and one knocked the other one down on a concrete
>>>floor, and, a domestic dispute in which the girl friend kicked the
>>>**** out of the boy friend, jumped on top of him, and slammed his head
>>>into the floor a few times.
>>>
>>>But there's no indication in anything that EMS was called to treat
>>>Zimmerman who supposedly had the **** beat out of him.
>>
>> No, he didn't. He got hit a few times, and then ended the attack
>> himself, with his gun, at least according to the current scenario. You
>> can do that in a self defense situation, you don't have to be attacked
>> with equal force.
>>
>>
>>>This fact alone
>>>makes the "Zimmerman was beaten up" story an obivous bull**** story.
>>
>> He was attacked, supposedly. He ended the attack by superior use of
>> force.
>>
>>>If he had a bloody nose OR wounds to the head, EMS would have been
>>>called. They weren't. He was not assaulted.
>>
>> Why call EMS for someone who is standing there telling you he doesn't
>> need any help (and presumeably won't pay for it even if it shows up?)
>>
>
>Someone with an head injury is typically not qualified to make a judgment on
>their physical condition. FWIW most high school sports programs have set
>protocols to deal with this eventuality. (hint it does invovle EMS). Even
>pro sports have come to realize this eventuality,.
>
Yeah, I forget which race driver it was - Mark Donahue? - that got
whacked on the head, was up walking around and seemed fine, and was
dead a few hours later.

On Mar 26, 1:55*am, Dave Head > wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 22:03:01 -0500, "NotMe" > wrote:
>
> >"Dave Head" > wrote in message
> >news
> >> On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 08:58:09 -0400, Kickin' Ass and Takin' Names
> >> > wrote:
>
> >>>On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 05:47:18 -0700 (PDT), walt tonne
> > wrote:
>
> >>>>On Mar 24, 4:46 pm, (Capt. Justice) wrote:
> >>>>> Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman
> >>>>> .
> >>>>> Updated: Friday, 23 Mar 2012, 6:19 PM
> >>>>> .
> >>>>> ORLANDO - A witness we haven't
> >>>>> heard from before paints a much different picture than we've seen so
> >>>>> far
> >>>>> of what happened the night 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot and
> >>>>> killed.
> >>>>> .
> >>>>> The night of that shooting, police say there was a witness who saw it
> >>>>> all.
>
> >>>>> . Our sister
> >>>>> station, FOX 35 in Orlando, has spoken to that witness.
> >>>>> .
> >>>>> What Sanford Police investigators have in the folder, they put together
> >>>>> on the killing of Trayvon Martin few know about.
>
> >>>>> The file now sits in the hands of the state attorney. Now that file is
> >>>>> just weeks away from being opened to a grand jury. It shows more now
> >>>>> about why police believed that night that George Zimmerman shouldn't
> >>>>> have gone to jail.
>
> >>>>> Zimmerman called 911 and told dispatchers he was following a teen. The
> >>>>> dispatcher told Zimmerman not to.
> >>>>> And from that moment to the shooting, details are few.
>
> >>>>> . But one
> >>>>> man's testimony could be key for the police.
>
> >>>>> "The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me:
> >>>>> 'help, help and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.
>
> >>>>> Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; . Zimmerman was
> >>>>> in red.
>
> >>>>> The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't not want
> >>>>> to be shown on camera.
>
> >>>>> His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up
> >>>>> Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of
> >>>>> Zimmerman.
>
> >>>>> "When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up
> >>>>> the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was
> >>>>> dead at that point," John said.
>
> >>>>> Zimmerman says the shooting was self defense. According to information
> >>>>> released on the Sanford city website, Zimmerman said he was going back
> >>>>> to his SUV when he was attacked by the teen. Sanford police say
> >>>>> Zimmerman was bloody in his face and head, and the back of his shirt
> >>>>> was
> >>>>> wet and had grass stains, indicating a struggle took place before the
> >>>>> shooting.
> >>>>>http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/new...tin-attacked-z...
>
> >>>>Most interesting!!!
>
> >>>Here's what is REALLY interesting about this bull**** claim.
>
> >>>An anonymous source named "John" reporting via Fox. *No problem with
> >>>credibility there.
>
> >>>Now -- let's stop just a minute and review this bull**** claim.
>
> >>>According the John and Fox, the cops found Zimmerman with a bloody
> >>>nose and lacerations to the back of *his head.
>
> >>>I am an Advanced Life Support - Cardiac EMT with our local volunteer
> >>>rescue squad. *We are a bunch of country bumpkins -- not the
> >>>sophisticated, high-class emergency services people like those in
> >>>Sanford -- HOWEVER -- if a cop in our county found an assault victim
> >>>with a bloody nose and lacerations to the back of his head, the cop
> >>>would call us. *We would respond, slap a C-collar on the patient,
> >>>strap him to a backboard, and check him out for cranial hemorrhaging,
> >>>which is a real danger in the case of blows to the head.
>
> >> Not if he doesn't want to go, you won't. *And the cops didn't "find"
> >> Z, they found the black kid with a hole in him. *Z didn't need any
> >> medical attention, and was up walking around.
>
> >>>In fact, last week I ran two such calls -- one to the jail where two
> >>>guys were brought in and one knocked the other one down on a concrete
> >>>floor, and, a domestic dispute in which the girl friend kicked the
> >>>**** out of the boy friend, jumped on top of him, and slammed his head
> >>>into the floor a few times.
>
> >>>But there's no indication in anything that EMS was called to treat
> >>>Zimmerman who supposedly had the **** beat out of him.
>
> >> No, he didn't. *He got hit a few times, and then ended the attack
> >> himself, with his gun, at least according to the current scenario. You
> >> can do that in a self defense situation, you don't have to be attacked
> >> with equal force.
>
> >>>This fact alone
> >>>makes the "Zimmerman was beaten up" story an obivous bull**** story.
>
> >> He was attacked, supposedly. * He ended the attack by superior use of
> >> force.
>
> >>>If he had a bloody nose OR wounds to the head, EMS would have been
> >>>called. *They weren't. *He was not assaulted.
>
> >> Why call EMS for someone who is standing there telling you he doesn't
> >> need any help (and presumeably won't pay for it even if it shows up?)
>
> >Someone with an head injury is typically not qualified to make a judgment on
> >their physical condition. *FWIW most high school sports programs have set
> >protocols to deal with this eventuality. *(hint it does invovle EMS). *Even
> >pro sports have come to realize this eventuality,.
>
> Yeah, I forget which race driver it was - Mark Donahue? - that got
> whacked on the head, was up walking around and seemed fine, and was
> dead a few hours later.

You're correct, IIRC it was a cerebral hemmorhage that made itself
known by a worsening headache; by the time he got himself checked out
(the next day) it was too late. It may have been anyway, but we don't
know.

nate

"walt tonne" > wrote in message
...
On Mar 24, 4:46 pm, (Capt. Justice) wrote:
> Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman
> .
> Updated: Friday, 23 Mar 2012, 6:19 PM
> .
> ORLANDO - A witness we haven't
> heard from before paints a much different picture than we've seen so far
> of what happened the night 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot and
> killed.
> .
> The night of that shooting, police say there was a witness who saw it
> all.
>
> . Our sister
> station, FOX 35 in Orlando, has spoken to that witness.
> .
> What Sanford Police investigators have in the folder, they put together
> on the killing of Trayvon Martin few know about.
>
> The file now sits in the hands of the state attorney. Now that file is
> just weeks away from being opened to a grand jury. It shows more now
> about why police believed that night that George Zimmerman shouldn't
> have gone to jail.
>
> Zimmerman called 911 and told dispatchers he was following a teen. The
> dispatcher told Zimmerman not to.
> And from that moment to the shooting, details are few.
>
> . But one
> man's testimony could be key for the police.
>
> "The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me:
> 'help, help and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.
>
>
> Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; . Zimmerman was
> in red.
>
> The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't not want
> to be shown on camera.
>
> His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up
> Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of
> Zimmerman.
>
> "When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up
> the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was
> dead at that point," John said.
>
> Zimmerman says the shooting was self defense. According to information
> released on the Sanford city website, Zimmerman said he was going back
> to his SUV when he was attacked by the teen. Sanford police say
> Zimmerman was bloody in his face and head, and the back of his shirt was
> wet and had grass stains, indicating a struggle took place before the
> shooting.
> http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/new...tin-attacked-z...

Most interesting!!!


==================================
The problem for Zimmerman is that he claims self defense in an action where
it is known that he was not defending, he was advancing. Whatever happened
before shots rang out had changed from a defensive posture for Zimmernam to
an aggressive posture. Whatever self defense he was undertaking had stopped
happening.

He is on record, by the 911 tapes, as stating that he was in pursuit of
Martin. It is difficult to uphold a defensive posture as you are advancing
on somebody that is actively retreating. I think that Zimmerman has put
himself into a heap of trouble.

Obviously there are facts not known, but of those that are known, I think
Zimmerman is gonna find himself in trouble.

On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 12:26:55 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"
> wrote:

>
>"walt tonne" > wrote in message
...
>On Mar 24, 4:46 pm, (Capt. Justice) wrote:
>> Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman
>> .
>> Updated: Friday, 23 Mar 2012, 6:19 PM
>> .
>> ORLANDO - A witness we haven't
>> heard from before paints a much different picture than we've seen so far
>> of what happened the night 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot and
>> killed.
>> .
>> The night of that shooting, police say there was a witness who saw it
>> all.
>>
>> . Our sister
>> station, FOX 35 in Orlando, has spoken to that witness.
>> .
>> What Sanford Police investigators have in the folder, they put together
>> on the killing of Trayvon Martin few know about.
>>
>> The file now sits in the hands of the state attorney. Now that file is
>> just weeks away from being opened to a grand jury. It shows more now
>> about why police believed that night that George Zimmerman shouldn't
>> have gone to jail.
>>
>> Zimmerman called 911 and told dispatchers he was following a teen. The
>> dispatcher told Zimmerman not to.
>> And from that moment to the shooting, details are few.
>>
>> . But one
>> man's testimony could be key for the police.
>>
>> "The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me:
>> 'help, help and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.
>>
>>
>> Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; . Zimmerman was
>> in red.
>>
>> The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't not want
>> to be shown on camera.
>>
>> His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up
>> Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of
>> Zimmerman.
>>
>> "When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up
>> the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was
>> dead at that point," John said.
>>
>> Zimmerman says the shooting was self defense. According to information
>> released on the Sanford city website, Zimmerman said he was going back
>> to his SUV when he was attacked by the teen. Sanford police say
>> Zimmerman was bloody in his face and head, and the back of his shirt was
>> wet and had grass stains, indicating a struggle took place before the
>> shooting.
>> http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/new...tin-attacked-z...
>
>Most interesting!!!
>
>
>==================================
>The problem for Zimmerman is that he claims self defense in an action where
>it is known that he was not defending, he was advancing.

Now, that is something we don't actually know. He says no, he was
heading back to his vehicle when the kid clipped him from behind, and
then began beating the crap out of him. He has a broken nose,
injuries to the back of his head, and grass stains on the back of his
clothes to corroborate that, as well as one or more witnesses that saw
the kid straddling him and beating the crap out of him. He figured he
was going to get hurt real bad, and the kid was going after his gun,
so he got it first and shot the kid. That's the scenario that makes
the most sense, given his injuries and the eyewitness accounts.


>Whatever happened
>before shots rang out had changed from a defensive posture for Zimmernam to
>an aggressive posture. Whatever self defense he was undertaking had stopped
>happening.
>
>He is on record, by the 911 tapes, as stating that he was in pursuit of
>Martin. It is difficult to uphold a defensive posture as you are advancing
>on somebody that is actively retreating. I think that Zimmerman has put
>himself into a heap of trouble.
>
>Obviously there are facts not known, but of those that are known, I think
>Zimmerman is gonna find himself in trouble.
>
>

"Dave Head" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 12:26:55 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"walt tonne" > wrote in message
...
>>On Mar 24, 4:46 pm, (Capt. Justice) wrote:
>>> Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman
>>> .
>>> Updated: Friday, 23 Mar 2012, 6:19 PM
>>> .
>>> ORLANDO - A witness we haven't
>>> heard from before paints a much different picture than we've seen so far
>>> of what happened the night 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot and
>>> killed.
>>> .
>>> The night of that shooting, police say there was a witness who saw it
>>> all.
>>>
>>> . Our sister
>>> station, FOX 35 in Orlando, has spoken to that witness.
>>> .
>>> What Sanford Police investigators have in the folder, they put together
>>> on the killing of Trayvon Martin few know about.
>>>
>>> The file now sits in the hands of the state attorney. Now that file is
>>> just weeks away from being opened to a grand jury. It shows more now
>>> about why police believed that night that George Zimmerman shouldn't
>>> have gone to jail.
>>>
>>> Zimmerman called 911 and told dispatchers he was following a teen. The
>>> dispatcher told Zimmerman not to.
>>> And from that moment to the shooting, details are few.
>>>
>>> . But one
>>> man's testimony could be key for the police.
>>>
>>> "The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me:
>>> 'help, help and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.
>>>
>>>
>>> Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; . Zimmerman was
>>> in red.
>>>
>>> The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't not want
>>> to be shown on camera.
>>>
>>> His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up
>>> Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of
>>> Zimmerman.
>>>
>>> "When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up
>>> the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was
>>> dead at that point," John said.
>>>
>>> Zimmerman says the shooting was self defense. According to information
>>> released on the Sanford city website, Zimmerman said he was going back
>>> to his SUV when he was attacked by the teen. Sanford police say
>>> Zimmerman was bloody in his face and head, and the back of his shirt was
>>> wet and had grass stains, indicating a struggle took place before the
>>> shooting.
>>> http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/new...tin-attacked-z...
>>
>>Most interesting!!!
>>
>>
>>==================================
>>The problem for Zimmerman is that he claims self defense in an action
>>where
>>it is known that he was not defending, he was advancing.
>
> Now, that is something we don't actually know. He says no, he was
> heading back to his vehicle when the kid clipped him from behind, and
> then began beating the crap out of him. He has a broken nose,
> injuries to the back of his head, and grass stains on the back of his
> clothes to corroborate that, as well as one or more witnesses that saw
> the kid straddling him and beating the crap out of him. He figured he
> was going to get hurt real bad, and the kid was going after his gun,
> so he got it first and shot the kid. That's the scenario that makes
> the most sense, given his injuries and the eyewitness accounts.
>
>

That is the story that emerged AFTER I made my earlier comments. Assuming
this story is the true one, Zimmerman will be found to be in a defensive
posture, and therefore shooting is justified.

When I made my comments, the news stories were mostly the 911 tapes of the
dispatcher (cops) telling him to stop his pursuit and allow the officers
that had been dispatched take care of things. The way the story was
presented, it appears that Zimmerman ignored this instruction, but the later
information that is coming out now is that he indeed followed the
instruction and was returning to his "ground" that was ultimately encroached
upon, causing him to stand his ground.

So, if he (Zimmerman) was really standing his ground, then he should be
protected by the law.