Looks like Chrysler is in terrible shape

A billion and a half dollar loss last year. 13,000 layoffs. Dieter Zetsche
says nothing has been ruled out...meaning Daimler may decide to dump
Chrysler.
--
Paddy's Pig
------------
To reply its bell not bull

yep....things didn't go like they wanted so its time to cut and run.



"Padraig" > wrote in message
...
> A billion and a half dollar loss last year. 13,000 layoffs. Dieter
Zetsche
> says nothing has been ruled out...meaning Daimler may decide to dump
> Chrysler.
> --
> Paddy's Pig
> ------------
> To reply its bell not bull
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

"rob" > wrote in message
...
> yep....things didn't go like they wanted so its time to cut and run.


So much for the "marriage of equals".
--
Paddy's Pig
------------
To reply its bell not bull

I've been watching this alot since the merger was first announced and all
kinds of things are being said. first it was a "merger" then they said no
WE are in charge. u.s. execs were called to Germany for board meetings and
were then snubbed (actually ignored was the word I heard). rumors have been
around that the Germans want nothing to do with NASCAR or any other racing,
so they have pulled all factory support for the truck series, Nextel and
drag racing is next. Nextel is back this year but not more money
(obviously). note the new Sebring convertible is almost the same as a CLK.
Mercedes parts in all the American cars which has helped quality for sure,
only this year did we see any thing new for the American cars, but most
likely those are coming from overseas too. they were supposed to teach the
Americans better quality, we were to tech them mass production improvements.
there's is no team work however, because of miss management from the top.
maybe I'm wrong but wasn't Daimler not doing well a few years ago (pre
merger)?

Bloomberg is reporting discussions with GM for a sale? doubt that will EVER
happen.





"Padraig" > wrote in message
...
> "rob" > wrote in message
> ...
> > yep....things didn't go like they wanted so its time to cut and run.
>
>
> So much for the "marriage of equals".
> --
> Paddy's Pig
> ------------
> To reply its bell not bull
>
>
>

"rob" > wrote in message
...
>
> maybe I'm wrong but wasn't Daimler not doing well a few years ago (pre
> merger)?


I don't think so. They were a smaller company but they've historically been
pretty solid financially. I remember before they bought Freightliner Div.
from Consolidated Freightways (approx 1978-79). The Freightliner Division's
President was a guy named Ron Burbank. I can't remember the name of the
Daimler-Benz guy. A funny story came out regarding Ron's first meeting with
him. Remember - this was at a time of extreme inflation in interest rates.
Lee Iacocca was lobbying Congress for a government bail out. He said he'd
never in his life anticipated having to pay banks 21% for his money.

Anyway with that as background info Ron Burbank was attempting to make small
talk, trying to get to know his counterpart before their first dinner
meeting. He said "Mr. Chairman what are you paying for operating money when
you go to the bank these days? The Daimler guy looked at him and said "Mr.
Buhbahnk, ve do not bohrrrow money from ze bahnks. Ve LEND money to ze
bahnks." No more small talk.

I no longer follow financial news much but I'd be surprised if the worst
thing that happened to Daimler-Benz prior to their acquisition of Chrysler
was anything more serious than a couple of years of flat growth patterns.
Maybe I'm wrong.

Pat

Today, Padraig made these interesting comments ...

> "rob" > wrote in message
> ...
>> yep....things didn't go like they wanted so its time to cut
>> and run.
>
>
> So much for the "marriage of equals".

"Merger of eqauls", announced in May 1998 and formalized in
November, 1998. And, of the 13,000 jobs, they are mostly BU jobs as
plants are either sold or closed or shifts are elimitated. I
watched Deiter Zetsche and Tom LaSorda's press conference and
announcements. Of the 13,000, which is spread some into 2007, most
in 2008, and some in 2009. I believe the number in Canada alone at
2,000 and 2,000 NBU white collar jobs in the U.S.

One can never be sure if the above is all of it or whether it is
sugar coated or obfuscated in some way. However, Zetsche continues
to say that there are NO plans to jettison Chrysler. To support
that, it would be a significant net loss and something finance
types call a "sunk cost" to sell off or otherwise elimitate just
the Chrysler Group. One should also look to Mercedes-Banz, which
prior to 2006, was racking up losses in excess of the Chrysler
Group, but returned to profitability in the latter half of 2006.

We will all have to wait to see how this plays out. If a Chrysler
spin-off of some sort is contemplated later, it would not be a
trivial undertaken to find a buyer for all of it or its assets
should it be broken up. If the latter, it would be 10 cents on the
dollar.

--
HP, aka Jerry

Today, rob made these interesting comments ...

>
> I've been watching this alot since the merger was first
> announced and all kinds of things are being said. first it
> was a "merger" then they said no WE are in charge. u.s. execs
> were called to Germany for board meetings and were then
> snubbed (actually ignored was the word I heard). rumors have
> been around that the Germans want nothing to do with NASCAR or
> any other racing, so they have pulled all factory support for
> the truck series, Nextel and drag racing is next. Nextel is
> back this year but not more money (obviously). note the new
> Sebring convertible is almost the same as a CLK. Mercedes
> parts in all the American cars which has helped quality for
> sure, only this year did we see any thing new for the American
> cars, but most likely those are coming from overseas too. they
> were supposed to teach the Americans better quality, we were
> to tech them mass production improvements. there's is no team
> work however, because of miss management from the top. maybe
> I'm wrong but wasn't Daimler not doing well a few years ago
> (pre merger)?
>
> Bloomberg is reporting discussions with GM for a sale? doubt
> that will EVER happen.
>
As one where was there in 1998 and gets more info in the Detroit
papers plus my friends, the merger of equals wasn't, of course,
but it also has hardly been a disaster for the Chrysler Group.
The Management Group of DCX, comprised of 100% Management, has
slowly squeezed out all but one Chrysler person, while I do not
think there are any into the ruling junta under German law, the
Supervisory Board, comprised of 50% management and 50% labor.

M-B parts in American cars are actually quite low on a value
basis, but if there were more, it would be better, not worse. The
primary inhibitor is that M-B parts cost much more than the
equivalent design-develop-tool-and-build American parts.

The new Sebring and Avenger have considerable American content
but are built on a MMC platform. This is not unlike Ford using
the Mazda 6 for its mid-size cars Fusion, Milan, and MKZ or GM's
heavy use of the Holden platforms for such bodies as Zeta, its
RWD platform upon which both the Camaro and next generation of
RWD 4-doors will be based.

As to the rest, including improved management teaching, quality,
and other things you talk about, you are hardly in a position to
talk about those things as if they are factual, which they
generally are not. The Chrysler Group was turned back over to
American management when Zetsche left at the new CEO of DCX and
the G.m. of M-B. Now, one could argue that Tom LaSorda didn't pay
enough attention but that hasn't been discussed that I am aware
of.

--
HP, aka Jerry

Today, Padraig made these interesting comments ...

> "rob" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> maybe I'm wrong but wasn't Daimler not doing well a few years
>> ago (pre merger)?
>
>
> I don't think so. They were a smaller company but they've
> historically been pretty solid financially. I remember before
> they bought Freightliner Div. from Consolidated Freightways
> (approx 1978-79). The Freightliner Division's President was a
> guy named Ron Burbank. I can't remember the name of the
> Daimler-Benz guy. A funny story came out regarding Ron's
> first meeting with him. Remember - this was at a time of
> extreme inflation in interest rates. Lee Iacocca was lobbying
> Congress for a government bail out. He said he'd never in his
> life anticipated having to pay banks 21% for his money.
>
> Anyway with that as background info Ron Burbank was attempting
> to make small talk, trying to get to know his counterpart
> before their first dinner meeting. He said "Mr. Chairman what
> are you paying for operating money when you go to the bank
> these days? The Daimler guy looked at him and said "Mr.
> Buhbahnk, ve do not bohrrrow money from ze bahnks. Ve LEND
> money to ze bahnks." No more small talk.
>
> I no longer follow financial news much but I'd be surprised if
> the worst thing that happened to Daimler-Benz prior to their
> acquisition of Chrysler was anything more serious than a
> couple of years of flat growth patterns. Maybe I'm wrong.
>
If you subtract out the car divisions, Chrysler and M-B, and
account for the quick sale of losing operations such as
locomotives, the rest of DCX is very profitable, including the
entire heavy truck division of which Freightliner and Sterling
are a part and Airbus Industries, the airliner arm giving Boeing
fits.

As to borrowing and lending, more comes in as loans than goes
out, e.g., Deutche Bank is the largest creditor and the largest
shareholder in DCX.

--
HP, aka Jerry

Have a look at www.thetruthaboutcars.com and read a few of the Chrysler
Deathwatch editorials and you can see just how precarious the company's
position really is. Without product that people want to buy there doesn't
seem to be much that Chrysler can do in the short term. Perhaps if they
shed some of their heritage obligations, like pensions, medical, subvented
leases and so on to their retirees they might be able to save enough money
to survive a little longer. Let's hope so. But so long as there are enough
assets remaining for golden parachutes to the current executives, I guess
the company's still doing well enough.

max

"Padraig" > wrote in message
...
> "rob" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> maybe I'm wrong but wasn't Daimler not doing well a few years ago (pre
>> merger)?
>
>
> I don't think so. They were a smaller company but they've historically
> been pretty solid financially. I remember before they bought Freightliner
> Div. from Consolidated Freightways (approx 1978-79). The Freightliner
> Division's President was a guy named Ron Burbank. I can't remember the
> name of the Daimler-Benz guy. A funny story came out regarding Ron's
> first meeting with him. Remember - this was at a time of extreme
> inflation in interest rates. Lee Iacocca was lobbying Congress for a
> government bail out. He said he'd never in his life anticipated having to
> pay banks 21% for his money.
>
> Anyway with that as background info Ron Burbank was attempting to make
> small talk, trying to get to know his counterpart before their first
> dinner meeting. He said "Mr. Chairman what are you paying for operating
> money when you go to the bank these days? The Daimler guy looked at him
> and said "Mr. Buhbahnk, ve do not bohrrrow money from ze bahnks. Ve LEND
> money to ze bahnks." No more small talk.
>
> I no longer follow financial news much but I'd be surprised if the worst
> thing that happened to Daimler-Benz prior to their acquisition of Chrysler
> was anything more serious than a couple of years of flat growth patterns.
> Maybe I'm wrong.
>
> Pat
>
>
>
>
>
>

Just dropped by (to see the pictures), but I'll comment anyhow. (This is
actual news compared to the anti-enviro rants.) Yes, Chrysler execs will get
the gold and the workers will get the shaft. At Mercedes, labour sits on the
board, borrowing is unheard of, execs do not get paid 1000x workers' wages,
engineers rule, they don't market to the ghetto pimps, F1 and DTM mean way
more than Mike Hilter's TaxiCar or drag racing, and MBz will survive. I'd
expect some Korean and Chinese companies will pick up the parts they want
from the bankruptcy court and the once-proud Chrysler will be gone. Could it
be that MBz was just their last chance? And could it be that Chrysler didn't
deserve the chance anyway?
john
"MagisterMax" > wrote in message
news:K73Bh.88764$Oa.81147@edtnps82...
> Have a look at www.thetruthaboutcars.com and read a few of the Chrysler
> Deathwatch editorials and you can see just how precarious the company's
> position really is. Without product that people want to buy there doesn't
> seem to be much that Chrysler can do in the short term. Perhaps if they
> shed some of their heritage obligations, like pensions, medical, subvented
> leases and so on to their retirees they might be able to save enough money
> to survive a little longer. Let's hope so. But so long as there are
> enough assets remaining for golden parachutes to the current executives, I
> guess the company's still doing well enough.
>
> max
>
> "Padraig" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "rob" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> maybe I'm wrong but wasn't Daimler not doing well a few years ago (pre
>>> merger)?
>>
>>
>> I don't think so. They were a smaller company but they've historically
>> been pretty solid financially. I remember before they bought
>> Freightliner Div. from Consolidated Freightways (approx 1978-79). The
>> Freightliner Division's President was a guy named Ron Burbank. I can't
>> remember the name of the Daimler-Benz guy. A funny story came out
>> regarding Ron's first meeting with him. Remember - this was at a time of
>> extreme inflation in interest rates. Lee Iacocca was lobbying Congress
>> for a government bail out. He said he'd never in his life anticipated
>> having to pay banks 21% for his money.
>>
>> Anyway with that as background info Ron Burbank was attempting to make
>> small talk, trying to get to know his counterpart before their first
>> dinner meeting. He said "Mr. Chairman what are you paying for operating
>> money when you go to the bank these days? The Daimler guy looked at him
>> and said "Mr. Buhbahnk, ve do not bohrrrow money from ze bahnks. Ve LEND
>> money to ze bahnks." No more small talk.
>>
>> I no longer follow financial news much but I'd be surprised if the worst
>> thing that happened to Daimler-Benz prior to their acquisition of
>> Chrysler was anything more serious than a couple of years of flat growth
>> patterns. Maybe I'm wrong.
>>
>> Pat
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>