Advice needed - recurring rear axle oil seal leak

Dean,

Maybe the outside seal is still OK, if it is leaking oil. It is only
designed to hold grease, which is thick stuff. If you want to take a chance
on this, clean all the gear lube off the bearing, regrease it as well as you
can, using maybe a needle adapter with your grease gun, and put it back
together with a new oil seal.

Earle

"Deano" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Ok - I am confused.
>
> Mike, didn't you have a wheel leak a few years back that you had to fix
> (march 02 - I was digging through old threads)? What did that turn up?
>
> If there are two seals (as Bill's helpful links have shown), that means
> that the inner seal keeps the oil away from the bearings altogether
> making them "greased" bearings, rather than "oiled" bearings (for lack
> of better description). If this is the case, wouldn't that mean that
> BOTH seals are bad if I am getting OIL out of the end of the axle?
>
> Mike, the leak you just described would imply the same thing (two seal
> failures), right?
>
> Dean
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
> > Ok..... That parts photo sure says there are two seals so I guess you
> > are correct on that.
> >
> > So that means one 'oil' seal is in the axle tube and gets left there
> > when you pull the axle out right? Then the 'grease' seal I am thinking
> > of come out with the axle and only can be removed once the bearing has
> > been pressed off the axle.
> >
> > So that would mean that the new leak mine just sprouted at one rear
> > wheel can be fixed without going to the machine shop?
> >
> > It would seem I can pull the axle and just pop the seal out of the tube?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > "L.W.(Bill) Hughes III" wrote:
> > >
> > > There's a picture of the inner and outer seals at:
> > > http://www.teamgrandwagoneer.com/par...ain/index.html
> > > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> > > http://www.billhughes.com/
> > >
> > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Bill, there is no inside seal on a Dana 44 rear end! The Dana 30
front
> > > > end has them....
> > > >
> > > > Mike
>



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Thanks Earl.

When I first had the seal done, I thought the seal was behind the
bearing and thus would require a press (which I don't have) so I took
it to my jeep guy - had I known, I probably would have done it myself.
turns out I was looking at a description of the newer D44 on the TJ
which *only* has an outer oil seal. Anyway, I just spoke with my jepe
mechanic and confirmed what everyone here has come to agree upon.
There is an inner oil seal and an outer grease seal. Grease seal won't
keep the runnier axle oil from leaking if the oil seal is bad. He is
gonna pull it open and redo it - possibly peening the bearing or
dimpling the housing in the process to deal with the spun bearing.

Gonna cross my fingers that I will not shortly be in the market for a
new D44 housing if this doesn't work. My open air "shade tree" garage
isn't going to be too nice for a first time axle rebuild over the next
4-5 months (Boston).

Dean

Earle Horton wrote:
> Dean,
>
> Maybe the outside seal is still OK, if it is leaking oil. It is only
> designed to hold grease, which is thick stuff. If you want to take a chance
> on this, clean all the gear lube off the bearing, regrease it as well as you
> can, using maybe a needle adapter with your grease gun, and put it back
> together with a new oil seal.
>
> Earle
>
> "Deano" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> > Ok - I am confused.
> >
> > Mike, didn't you have a wheel leak a few years back that you had to fix
> > (march 02 - I was digging through old threads)? What did that turn up?
> >
> > If there are two seals (as Bill's helpful links have shown), that means
> > that the inner seal keeps the oil away from the bearings altogether
> > making them "greased" bearings, rather than "oiled" bearings (for lack
> > of better description). If this is the case, wouldn't that mean that
> > BOTH seals are bad if I am getting OIL out of the end of the axle?
> >
> > Mike, the leak you just described would imply the same thing (two seal
> > failures), right?
> >
> > Dean
> >
> > Mike Romain wrote:
> > > Ok..... That parts photo sure says there are two seals so I guess you
> > > are correct on that.
> > >
> > > So that means one 'oil' seal is in the axle tube and gets left there
> > > when you pull the axle out right? Then the 'grease' seal I am thinking
> > > of come out with the axle and only can be removed once the bearing has
> > > been pressed off the axle.
> > >
> > > So that would mean that the new leak mine just sprouted at one rear
> > > wheel can be fixed without going to the machine shop?
> > >
> > > It would seem I can pull the axle and just pop the seal out of the tube?
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > "L.W.(Bill) Hughes III" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > There's a picture of the inner and outer seals at:
> > > > http://www.teamgrandwagoneer.com/par...ain/index.html
> > > > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> > > > http://www.billhughes.com/
> > > >
> > > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill, there is no inside seal on a Dana 44 rear end! The Dana 30
> front
> > > > > end has them....
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

That's ok, I was/am obviously confused too.... I am looking at my parts
book and it labels all the parts in the rear end except one... Sure
enough, it could be that internal seal.

Wow, I just read that 2002 thread. My memory is missing pieces I guess,
we figured out back then there was two seals in the CJ dana 44 and only
one in the TJ 44. I can't believe I didn't remember that, oh well I did
get hit in the head as a passenger in a car accident hard enough to have
a stroke since...

That leak I had stopped. I never fixed it that I can remember. I have
had the rear pinion bearing and inside axle bearings replaced since and
it wasn't leaking when they took the axles out for that even....

The outer seal is a grease one like others have noticed. This won't
hold gear oil in, only grease.

I guess it is finally time I replaced mine. Wonder where Steve is these
days...

Same test though. If there isn't bearing movement or heat marks,
suspect the job.

Mike

Deano wrote:
>
> Ok - I am confused.
>
> Mike, didn't you have a wheel leak a few years back that you had to fix
> (march 02 - I was digging through old threads)? What did that turn up?
>
> If there are two seals (as Bill's helpful links have shown), that means
> that the inner seal keeps the oil away from the bearings altogether
> making them "greased" bearings, rather than "oiled" bearings (for lack
> of better description). If this is the case, wouldn't that mean that
> BOTH seals are bad if I am getting OIL out of the end of the axle?
>
> Mike, the leak you just described would imply the same thing (two seal
> failures), right?
>
> Dean
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
> > Ok..... That parts photo sure says there are two seals so I guess you
> > are correct on that.
> >
> > So that means one 'oil' seal is in the axle tube and gets left there
> > when you pull the axle out right? Then the 'grease' seal I am thinking
> > of come out with the axle and only can be removed once the bearing has
> > been pressed off the axle.
> >
> > So that would mean that the new leak mine just sprouted at one rear
> > wheel can be fixed without going to the machine shop?
> >
> > It would seem I can pull the axle and just pop the seal out of the tube?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > "L.W.(Bill) Hughes III" wrote:
> > >
> > > There's a picture of the inner and outer seals at:
> > > http://www.teamgrandwagoneer.com/par...ain/index.html
> > > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> > > http://www.billhughes.com/
> > >
> > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Bill, there is no inside seal on a Dana 44 rear end! The Dana 30 front
> > > > end has them....
> > > >
> > > > Mike

I watched a guy replace an axle bearing in a Suburban at Snoqualmie Pass,
WA, in the dead of winter. First, he built a shelter around the back end of
the Suburban using tarps and duct tape. Then, he pulled the axle shaft.
Then, he begged a ride to town to get parts...

Earle

"Deano" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Thanks Earl.
>
> When I first had the seal done, I thought the seal was behind the
> bearing and thus would require a press (which I don't have) so I took
> it to my jeep guy - had I known, I probably would have done it myself.
> turns out I was looking at a description of the newer D44 on the TJ
> which *only* has an outer oil seal. Anyway, I just spoke with my jepe
> mechanic and confirmed what everyone here has come to agree upon.
> There is an inner oil seal and an outer grease seal. Grease seal won't
> keep the runnier axle oil from leaking if the oil seal is bad. He is
> gonna pull it open and redo it - possibly peening the bearing or
> dimpling the housing in the process to deal with the spun bearing.
>
> Gonna cross my fingers that I will not shortly be in the market for a
> new D44 housing if this doesn't work. My open air "shade tree" garage
> isn't going to be too nice for a first time axle rebuild over the next
> 4-5 months (Boston).
>
> Dean
>
> Earle Horton wrote:
> > Dean,
> >
> > Maybe the outside seal is still OK, if it is leaking oil. It is only
> > designed to hold grease, which is thick stuff. If you want to take a
chance
> > on this, clean all the gear lube off the bearing, regrease it as well as
you
> > can, using maybe a needle adapter with your grease gun, and put it back
> > together with a new oil seal.
> >
> > Earle
> >
> > "Deano" > wrote in message
> > ups.com...
> > > Ok - I am confused.
> > >
> > > Mike, didn't you have a wheel leak a few years back that you had to
fix
> > > (march 02 - I was digging through old threads)? What did that turn
up?
> > >
> > > If there are two seals (as Bill's helpful links have shown), that
means
> > > that the inner seal keeps the oil away from the bearings altogether
> > > making them "greased" bearings, rather than "oiled" bearings (for lack
> > > of better description). If this is the case, wouldn't that mean that
> > > BOTH seals are bad if I am getting OIL out of the end of the axle?
> > >
> > > Mike, the leak you just described would imply the same thing (two seal
> > > failures), right?
> > >
> > > Dean
> > >
> > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > > > Ok..... That parts photo sure says there are two seals so I guess
you
> > > > are correct on that.
> > > >
> > > > So that means one 'oil' seal is in the axle tube and gets left there
> > > > when you pull the axle out right? Then the 'grease' seal I am
thinking
> > > > of come out with the axle and only can be removed once the bearing
has
> > > > been pressed off the axle.
> > > >
> > > > So that would mean that the new leak mine just sprouted at one rear
> > > > wheel can be fixed without going to the machine shop?
> > > >
> > > > It would seem I can pull the axle and just pop the seal out of the
tube?
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > "L.W.(Bill) Hughes III" wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > There's a picture of the inner and outer seals at:
> > > > > http://www.teamgrandwagoneer.com/par...ain/index.html
> > > > > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> > > > > http://www.billhughes.com/
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bill, there is no inside seal on a Dana 44 rear end! The Dana
30
> > front
> > > > > > end has them....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
>



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Just an update on this thread. Despite Bill's diagram, the D44 on the
86 CJ7 in fact has only 1 seal per side and it is outboard from the
bearing. There is no grease seal, so the bearing is lubricated by the
axle oil. This was confirmed when mine was taken apart again in the
process of confirming that the rear-end is not salvageable due to a
spun bearing (compliments of the PO) - appears as though the housing
has been stretched/warped by the heat and will no longer hold a seal.



Earle Horton wrote:
> You're not missing anything Mike.
>
> Earle
>
> "Mike Romain" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I am missing something there too.....
> >
> > 'Every' time a bearing has been spun out on me, the parts need
> > replacing. If I just put a new one in loose, I don't get 6 months out
> > of it.
> >
> > If it is spun enough to cause seal failure, well......
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >
> > Deano wrote:
> > >
> > > Bill -
> > >
> > > Thanks for replying. Are you saying that the two issues need not be
> > > related and unless I burn out the new bearing, there is no real problem
> > > with it being slightly loose in the housing as it relates to the oil
> > > seal's ability to do its job?
> > >
> > > Thank
> > >
> > > L.W.(Bill) Hughes III wrote:
> > > > Hi Dean,
> > > > I wouldn't worry about a loose bearing race. And I don't like his
> > > > idea of spot welding it in, it would be impossible to center it!
> > > > I'm thinking the seal is his fault, like he laid the full weight
> of
> > > > the axle on it as he slid it in. Or maybe the new seal was twenty
> years
> > > > old and cracking.
> > > > http://www.4x4wire.com/jeep/tech/axle/superior02/
> > > > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> > > > http://www.billhughes.com/
> > > >
> > > > Deano wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Just had my 86 cj7 (dana 44 rear) into my local jeep mechanic to
> > > > > replace my oil seal, bearing, retainer etc, and brake pad on the
> rear
> > > > > axle, driver's side. When I picked it up he mentioned that he had
> > > > > noticed a lot of play when he reinstalled the new axle - he guessed
> > > > > that a PO had spun a bearing. Basically the bearing was not fitting
> > > > > tightly into the surrounding housing. He said it seemed ok, but if
> > > > > there were any problems he may have to spot peen? (weld?) the
> bearing
> > > > > to keep it from turning.
> > > > >
> > > > > As it turns out, it has started leaking again just a few weeks later
> > > > > and I don't understand whether or not these two issues are or could
> be
> > > > > related. He checked the axle for straightness at the time which
> wasn't
> > > > > a problem. Anyone have any thoughts or experience with this? I
> will
> > > > > take it back in, but wanted to have some ideas ahead of time...
> > > > >
> > > > > Dean
>
>
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Thanks for the update!

Now I know what I am in for when I open mine up, a trip to a shop to get
the new seal and bearing pressed on.

Mike

Deano wrote:
>
> Just an update on this thread. Despite Bill's diagram, the D44 on the
> 86 CJ7 in fact has only 1 seal per side and it is outboard from the
> bearing. There is no grease seal, so the bearing is lubricated by the
> axle oil. This was confirmed when mine was taken apart again in the
> process of confirming that the rear-end is not salvageable due to a
> spun bearing (compliments of the PO) - appears as though the housing
> has been stretched/warped by the heat and will no longer hold a seal.
>
> Earle Horton wrote:
> > You're not missing anything Mike.
> >
> > Earle
> >
> > "Mike Romain" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I am missing something there too.....
> > >
> > > 'Every' time a bearing has been spun out on me, the parts need
> > > replacing. If I just put a new one in loose, I don't get 6 months out
> > > of it.
> > >
> > > If it is spun enough to cause seal failure, well......
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > >
> > > Deano wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Bill -
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for replying. Are you saying that the two issues need not be
> > > > related and unless I burn out the new bearing, there is no real problem
> > > > with it being slightly loose in the housing as it relates to the oil
> > > > seal's ability to do its job?
> > > >
> > > > Thank
> > > >
> > > > L.W.(Bill) Hughes III wrote:
> > > > > Hi Dean,
> > > > > I wouldn't worry about a loose bearing race. And I don't like his
> > > > > idea of spot welding it in, it would be impossible to center it!
> > > > > I'm thinking the seal is his fault, like he laid the full weight
> > of
> > > > > the axle on it as he slid it in. Or maybe the new seal was twenty
> > years
> > > > > old and cracking.
> > > > > http://www.4x4wire.com/jeep/tech/axle/superior02/
> > > > > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> > > > > http://www.billhughes.com/
> > > > >
> > > > > Deano wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just had my 86 cj7 (dana 44 rear) into my local jeep mechanic to
> > > > > > replace my oil seal, bearing, retainer etc, and brake pad on the
> > rear
> > > > > > axle, driver's side. When I picked it up he mentioned that he had
> > > > > > noticed a lot of play when he reinstalled the new axle - he guessed
> > > > > > that a PO had spun a bearing. Basically the bearing was not fitting
> > > > > > tightly into the surrounding housing. He said it seemed ok, but if
> > > > > > there were any problems he may have to spot peen? (weld?) the
> > bearing
> > > > > > to keep it from turning.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As it turns out, it has started leaking again just a few weeks later
> > > > > > and I don't understand whether or not these two issues are or could
> > be
> > > > > > related. He checked the axle for straightness at the time which
> > wasn't
> > > > > > a problem. Anyone have any thoughts or experience with this? I
> > will
> > > > > > take it back in, but wanted to have some ideas ahead of time...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dean
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

OK, Thanks for the report on your 1986 CJ-5. They must have change
it to the AMC 20 design, I previously thought only Chrysler/Daimler
would f**k up a Dana.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/

Deano wrote:
>
> Just an update on this thread. Despite Bill's diagram, the D44 on the
> 86 CJ7 in fact has only 1 seal per side and it is outboard from the
> bearing. There is no grease seal, so the bearing is lubricated by the
> axle oil. This was confirmed when mine was taken apart again in the
> process of confirming that the rear-end is not salvageable due to a
> spun bearing (compliments of the PO) - appears as though the housing
> has been stretched/warped by the heat and will no longer hold a seal.

That would be unlikely seeing as they ran out of the 20's for the last
of the CJ7's and used the Dana 44. I can't see them reinventing
something for the end of a production line.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

"L.W.(Bill) Hughes III" wrote:
>
> OK, Thanks for the report on your 1986 CJ-5. They must have change
> it to the AMC 20 design, I previously thought only Chrysler/Daimler
> would f**k up a Dana.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> http://www.billhughes.com/
>
> Deano wrote:
> >
> > Just an update on this thread. Despite Bill's diagram, the D44 on the
> > 86 CJ7 in fact has only 1 seal per side and it is outboard from the
> > bearing. There is no grease seal, so the bearing is lubricated by the
> > axle oil. This was confirmed when mine was taken apart again in the
> > process of confirming that the rear-end is not salvageable due to a
> > spun bearing (compliments of the PO) - appears as though the housing
> > has been stretched/warped by the heat and will no longer hold a seal.