Delphi Proposal to Cut Wages in Half!

Nomen Nescio wrote:

> If you think Mexican or Chinese auto parts will cost you less, you're sadly
> mistaken. You'll pay the same price for them as if American workers made
> those parts. Labor costs have nothing to do with your price. Profits have
> everything to do with your price. As labor costs go down, profits go
> up...the price remains the same!
>

Not true at all. I will be you a whole ton of money that the computer
you typed that on would be massively more expensive to purchase had it
been 100% made in the USA.

Certainly not all of the cost savings of off-shore production ends up in
the end customer's pocket, but a goodly portion of it does.

Have you noticed that those products which are primarily made in asia
have been on a long term downward price trend while those few thing
which are not easily imported into the US keep getting more expensive?

John

Nomen Nescio wrote:

>
> If American corporations have their designs on Third World wages for
> American workers, they'll be looking at general strikes as are seen in
> parts of Europe.
>
>

Go right ahead, call a general strike of all unionized employees in the
US of A. Keep it up for at least 12 months. At the end of that game
there will be no union jobs left and the country will simply go on just
fine.

John

MoPar Man wrote:
> David wrote:
>
>
>>Wrong, the employers in Canada have to pay the Government for
>>healthcare. Any employer be it 1 employee to thousands, has to
>>pay for the healthcare of all employees.
>
>
> In Canada (specifically, Ontario):
>
> Employer health tax is paid by the employer based on 1.95% of the
> employee's pay (it does not come out of the employees pay). There is
> no ceiling or limit on this tax.
>

That is a complete bargain. I own a small retail business, and it costs
over $800 per month to provide bare bones health insurance for our
employees. That comes out to over 12% of our monthly payroll costs and
many of the employees are not in the plan because they get better
insurance from a spouse's job.

John

"Tim & Linda" > wrote in message
...
> Delphi execs get boost in severance pay
> http://www.freep.com/news/latestnews...6_20051007.htm
>
> The boys at the top get more money and the working man gets less. Sounds
> like the Bushism is working.
>

I wouldn't worry much about that. A Bankruptcy court has total and complete
authority over all company operations, and can legally void any contract it
wants to.
And that includes the golden parachute contracts that self-serving execs
vote
for themselves.

Once a company goes banko all the investors know they will not get even
their
principal investment back, and that anything they can convince the
bankruptcy
court to cut will result in less of a loss for them. And execs that
mismange a
company into bankruptcy aren't easily going to find another job. There's
plenty
more execs out there available who can raid the company coffers just as
well.

Ted

Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:

> ...Literally within another century, the GLOBAL power sharing will be
> between the national governments and the multinational corporations. Each
> will act as a check on the other. It will be messy, and a lot of parts of
> it
> will not be democratic, but it will be pretty damn close to the idea of a
> government of checks and balances. Thus we will in a space of about 300
> years, gone from a world ruled by despots, with absolute control, and
> who regularly started wars that killed millions of people, to a world ruled
> by corporations and governments each who have vested interests in NOT
> starting wars that kill millions of people, and who have internal mechanisms
> in place that flush out the very types of people who would want to start
> these wars. And with nuke weapons available, we pretty much have no
> other way to go...

You fail to factor in terrorists whose intent is to set up sharia
governments, establish dhemma status and collect jizya where they can,
and otherwise to disrupt and either convert or kill millions of people
and destabilize economies whenever possible.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

John Horner wrote:
> MoPar Man wrote:
>
>> David wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Wrong, the employers in Canada have to pay the Government for
>>> healthcare. Any employer be it 1 employee to thousands, has to
>>> pay for the healthcare of all employees.
>>
>>
>>
>> In Canada (specifically, Ontario):
>>
>> Employer health tax is paid by the employer based on 1.95% of the
>> employee's pay (it does not come out of the employees pay). There is
>> no ceiling or limit on this tax.
>>
>
> That is a complete bargain. I own a small retail business, and it costs
> over $800 per month to provide bare bones health insurance for our
> employees. That comes out to over 12% of our monthly payroll costs and
> many of the employees are not in the plan because they get better
> insurance from a spouse's job.
>
> John


They should be cracking down the health care industry to as it is out of
control on prices. Somebody has got to be sucking a LOT of fat off of
those fees.

-----------------
www.thesnoman.com

Bill Putney > wrote in :

> Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
>
>> ...Literally within another century, the GLOBAL power sharing will be
>> between the national governments and the multinational corporations.
>> Each will act as a check on the other. It will be messy, and a lot
>> of parts of it
>> will not be democratic, but it will be pretty damn close to the idea
>> of a government of checks and balances. Thus we will in a space of
>> about 300 years, gone from a world ruled by despots, with absolute
>> control, and who regularly started wars that killed millions of
>> people, to a world ruled by corporations and governments each who
>> have vested interests in NOT starting wars that kill millions of
>> people, and who have internal mechanisms in place that flush out the
>> very types of people who would want to start these wars. And with
>> nuke weapons available, we pretty much have no other way to go...
>
> You fail to factor in terrorists whose intent is to set up sharia
> governments, establish dhemma status and collect jizya where they can,
> and otherwise to disrupt and either convert or kill millions of people
> and destabilize economies whenever possible.
>
> Bill Putney
> (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
> address with the letter 'x')

Well, put, Bill.... They ARE the common enemy because they DO see the
world picture and are in a life/death struggle. If the world society
isnt worn down to the point of accepting a return to feudalism, the
glorious "Caliphate" model is dead.


And Ted, I DO see the big picture!

That's exactly what I meant. Like Bush and many others before him say...
countries whose wealth depends on trade dont shoot at each other.

your cause and effect is a little cock-eyed... the Civil war WAS about
trade and other nations chose sides in the conflict BASED on which
outcome would affect them most.

As long as there is separation between civil governemnt and corporate
government, we will be okay. Enrons and Worldcoms are bad.. sure
enough.. but the saving factor is they will be found out either by their
shareholders or the government or both.

Currently that doesnt happen easily in China... but there's a growing
populist resistance there that dukes it out with Beijing on one side and
World Socialists on the other.

The dangers lie in de-facto National Socialism or a regression to central
planned economies using confiscated corporate resources to compete
(Venezuela)

On the domestic front... if Unions had tended to their knitting and acted
more like a guild than a labor agent, we wouldnt have a lot of this mess.

My whole family is GM/Harrison/Delphi... my dad and brothers retired from
Dayton plants.. (fortunately opted for GM retirement over Delphi).

EVERY family dinner involved a 'preaching to the choir' litany about the
waste and corruption in the assembly lines. The unions were self-
centered and corrupt when I worked there in the sixties and it only got
worse.

The locals in Dayton are more concerned with appealing the cases of their
members caught dealing drugs than helping Delphi find a way to keep the
plants open.

And NO, my family WASNT management they were line workers.. and my
brothers both were foremen at one time then gave it up because upper
plant management didnt care about trying to eliminate waste and low
productivity......

Bottom Line for automotive middle management: "Dont rock the boat"

John Horner wrote:

> > In Canada (specifically, Ontario):
> >
> > Employer health tax is paid by the employer based on 1.95% of
> > the employee's pay (it does not come out of the employees pay).
> > There is no ceiling or limit on this tax.
>
> That is a complete bargain. I own a small retail business, and
> it costs over $800 per month to provide bare bones health
> insurance for our employees. That comes out to over 12% of our
> monthly payroll costs and many of the employees are not in the
> plan because they get better insurance from a spouse's job.

It's pretty common for (Canadian / Ontario) companies to arrange for a
private health and life insurance plan (above and beyond what the
gov't health insurance provides). Such plans require 100%
participation (for everything except dental, which can be
"opt-outable" if the employee's spouse is covered with their own
plan).

Such supplementary insurance consist of accidental
death/dismemberment, drug plan, physiotherapy, appliances such as
orthotics, crutches, braces, possibly a life insurance component,
etc. A typical cost for a plan like this is $150 per month per
employee. 75% of the total cost of a package like this is paid by the
employee (deduction from pay), the other 25% paid by the employer.

Some persistent problems with health care in Ontario is:

1) long waiting times for planned or elective orthopedic
surgery. There are so many senior citizens that are
injuring themselves (breaking their hips) that they are
taking up much of the orthopedic surgical resources.

2) lack of a familiy doctor (ie General Practitioner or "GP").
Many people go to walk-in clinics (or hospital emergency
departments) because they have no family doctor.
This is because the cost of a medical education in Canada
is low compared to the US, and as such med students in
Canada tend to continue into a medical specialty after
their initial 4 or 5 years of medical education, while in
the US a greater percentage of students do not have the
financial resources to continue into a specialty and hence
become GP's in order to start paying down their debt.
This problem is compounded by more females entering med
school, and they (more than males) are likely to not work
full time (or drop in and out of the work force as their
life circumstances change). Since med school enrollment
numbers are highly regulated, every student that enters
and does not participate fully in the medical work force
is a liability or a wasted resource. Also, many do not
find that a GP is a rewarding career or lifestyle, and
would rather specialize and spend their time interacting
with technology (scans, surgical instruments, computers,
robots) than dealing with the messy issues that pertain
to dealing directly with patients (as GP's do). A high
percentage of a GP's workload is either babies/kids or
old people (you've really got to have a love for people to
deal with either group).

"John Horner" > wrote in message
news:7_J2f.13934$wm3.7720@trnddc01...
> Nomen Nescio wrote:
>
>>
>> If American corporations have their designs on Third World wages for
>> American workers, they'll be looking at general strikes as are seen in
>> parts of Europe.
>>
>>
>
> Go right ahead, call a general strike of all unionized employees in the US
> of A. Keep it up for at least 12 months. At the end of that game there
> will be no union jobs left and the country will simply go on just fine.

It would never happen. Rail unions can't get out on strike as the govenment
would step in and has. Hell, look what happened to PATCO. The friend of the
working man fired them.

Roy
> John

delphi as well as all us auto plants pay about $65 per hour in wages and
benefits to hourly employees.
the hourly and salary folks are not worth anywhere near that amount of
money.


"Nomen Nescio" > wrote in message
...
> >Delphi, which supplies suspension systems for the Mini and Range Rover
> >Sport and cruise controls for Jaguar, was forced to seek bankruptcy
> >protection in a New York court after failing to win concessions with
> >unions. The United Auto Workers union resisted its attempts to cut hourly
> >wages by more than half, to about $10 or $12.
> >
>
> If American corporations have their designs on Third World wages for
> American workers, they'll be looking at general strikes as are seen in
> parts of Europe.
>
> >"Delphi's decision would be extremely disappointing under any
> >circumstances, but it is all the more so in light of the company's
> >announcement on Friday -- just one day before filing bankruptcy -- that
it
> >had sweetened the severance packages for Delphi's 21 most highly
> >compensated executives because the old severance package was -- as a
> >Delphi spokesperson put it -- 'uncompetitive.'
> >
>
> Golden parachutes? A general strike will bring corporate America to its
> senses. Executives should be pink slipped on Friday for Monday's
> uncompensated layoff.
>
> If you think Mexican or Chinese auto parts will cost you less, you're
sadly
> mistaken. You'll pay the same price for them as if American workers made
> those parts. Labor costs have nothing to do with your price. Profits
have
> everything to do with your price. As labor costs go down, profits go
> up...the price remains the same!
>