Two kinds of idiots

Exactly. Great post, Spike.


"Deputy Dog" > wrote in
news:BlUae.3352$yc.2864@trnddc04:

> Yeah, what he said!
>
> Dave
>
> "Spike" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Personally, I could care less, if BrentP or anyone else wants to
>> exceed the posted limits and/or violate any other traffic laws.
>> UNTIL
>> Their conduct infringes upon the rights and safety of others.
>>
>> Want to kill yourself, be my guest. Want to take some poor family
>> of five with you, no way. And it doesn't take much for one idiot
>> who thinks they have it under total control 100% of the time, to
>> lose it over a wayward deer suddenly appearing on the turnpike, or
>> suffer a blown tire, or have someone pulling a trailer cut you off
>> because they are not aware of how much distance they really take
>> up. As I'm sure most know, in some parts of the country, the
>> weather can be perfectly clear, and then suddenly you're in a
>> torrential downpour, a sand or dust or snow storm, or valley fog.
>> One car brakes because they lost visibility, and that 75mph driver
>> plows right into them. Anyone recall what the record for a chain
>> collision is or how many died?
>>
>> The traffic laws are not there simply to restrict you. They are
>> there for the welfare and safety of all users. As I recall, they
>> are called "public" roadways, meaning they are there for everyone's
>> use.
>>
>> Break the law if you want. If you get cited, points assessed, a
>> fine, increased insurance rates, don't whine. You knew the risk and
>> you took it upon yourself.
>>
>> And, if you are the cause, and we're picking up the body parts of
>> children who had no choice in the matter of whether you sped or
>> their parents obeyed the, law... you better hope to hell you died
>> at the scene. It's easy for the BrentPs of the world to whine about
>> having laws to obey which they think stupid... but they are never
>> the ones who have to pick up the pieces of broken bodies of
>> innocents.
>>
>> As for BrentP, if it's so bad here, and so good in Germany, leave.
>> Surrender your citizenship, and leave. And be welcome back when you
>> have a passport from you new native land, and a visa to visit this
>> land of the " police state" which you seem to detest so much. You
>> won't go though. You'll just whine. Why is it so many who live here
>> run this nation down, and do nothing constructive to improve it?
>> Why is it they run the country down and refuse to abandoned it? Why
>> do so many every year try, legally or illegally, to immigrate to
>> here? I hear you can get some good deals on airfare right now.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 11:56:09 GMT, "SVTKate"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Brent P" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >| In article
>> >| .net>,
>> >SVTKate wrote:
>> >|
>> >| > But seriously, how many poeple do you know that do the exact
>> >| > speed
>> >limit? I
>> >| > mean that will admit to always going the limit.
>> >|
>> >| The ISP has been threatening to use photo radar in construction
>> >| zones. I've been slowing to the posted 45mph speed instead of
>> >| the customary 55-65 depending on the road conditions. I keep to
>> >| the right, and man
> have
>> >| I been ****ing people off. A few times I had to accelerate just
>> >| to
> avoid
>> >| being crashed into. I how have to balance my safety vs. the law.
>> >| There should never be such a condition.
>> >|
>> >
>> >
>> >I have seen this situation so many times I cannot tell you.
>> >Since my husband worked heavy construction nearly all of his life
>> >we tend
> to
>> >be extremely contentious in construction zones. We KNOWwhat it's
>> >like for the guys working out there and we want to see each and
>> >every one of them make it home at the end of their shift.
>> >
>> >I have many times had people really angry at me for driving the
>> >posted limit, or big trucks drive rught up my tailpipe. There
>> >comes a point
> where
>> >you feel that you must go faster to avoid being rammed from
>> >behind.
>> >
>> >It's situations like this that can get very dangerous. I DO wish
>> >that
> they
>> >would require the construction speed signs be covered when the
>> >crews have gone home. So that normal traffic can flow. If the road
>> >conditions permit
> it
>> >of course.
>> >
>> >Even if a soul isn't on the site, if you exceed the speed limit in
>> >a construction zone, you can get popped with a double fine... for
> endangering
>> >no one. I think that is bull****.
>> >
>> >Kate
>> >
>>
>> Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
>> 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
>> Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
>> Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
>> w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
>
>
>

(Brent P) wrote in
:

> In article .net>,
> SVTKate wrote:
>>
>> "Brent P" > wrote
>>|
>>| I even know that as an adult I cannot legally ride a bicycle on
>>| the sidewalk. Numerous driver's insist on it however. The law
>>| states to use the road and ride by the letter of the IL vehicle
>>| code.
>>|
>>
>> When was the last time you tried to ride a bike on the street?
>
> The day before it got cold again. Tuesday.
>
>> We bought dirt bikes several years ago, decided to ride along the
>> canals. The sheriff's department kicked us off. A couple of old
>> folks, riding biked for exercise.
>> The streets were't safe, so we sold the damn bikes and said
>> ta-hell-with-it.
>
>> Out here in Tennessee, there is no f-ing way I would try to ride a
>> bike on the road. These people drive like idiots.
>> Even worse than California.
>
> I don't give in so easily. I also am capable of out performing most
> drivers in city/suburban traffic. In other words, the cars in front
> of me slow me down. Drivers may pass me mid-block, but I will
> usually stay on the same light cycle as them for miles on end.

This speaks volumes about you, Brent. You equate giving in to being
outperformed on the street.

One more newsflash: Laws exist to protect most people from the likes
of you. Given your attitude you portray in here, you're downright
dangerous on the street.

In article >, Joe wrote:
> (Brent P) wrote in

>> So all laws are good and need to be obeyed because their laws eh?

> Some laws suck, but they're still laws. You have a choice. Either
> obey them or risk the consequences.

Considerable difference from the law is the law mantra.

>> Did your grandfather drink during prohibition? Would you?

> I honestly don't know and don't care. It's not an issue.

Prohibitionists still exist, and they are still out there trying to tell
other people what they may consume. Drug prohibition has never ended. Or
maybe you don't care because you don't drink or do drugs. It doesn't bother
you when the thing that is banned is something you don't have. They
aren't coming for you today.

>> Do you know how many laws you break in a day? I can't even tell you
>> how many I break. There are so many laws about this and that, I
>> don't even know them all. And I know and follow many many more than
>> most people.

>> I even know that as an adult I cannot legally ride a bicycle on the
>> sidewalk. Numerous driver's insist on it however. The law states to
>> use the road and ride by the letter of the IL vehicle code.

> So what's your point?

My point is obvious for anyone with the intelligence of the average house
cat. There are so many laws that they are selectively enforced and nobody
can get through the day without breaking them.

> Here's the deal that you and a lot of others are missing: If you don't
> like laws and insist on breaking them, go right ahead and take the
> risk that comes with it. And since you're doing your own thing, don't
> whine about the fact that the laws exist - you're ignoring them
> anyway. You've got no basis for complaining.

I hope someone starts punishing you for every law you break everyday.
Including the ones you don't know about. Then, maybe, you'll grow a bit
of a clue.

In article .net>, SVTKate wrote:

> It's situations like this that can get very dangerous. I DO wish that they
> would require the construction speed signs be covered when the crews have
> gone home. So that normal traffic can flow. If the road conditions permit it
> of course.

Yep. Most of the construction zones can support 60+mph traffic safely
when nobody is around. And that's when I normally drive them, when nobody
is around. On weekdays, traffic will naturally slow to below 45mph.

> Even if a soul isn't on the site, if you exceed the speed limit in a
> construction zone, you can get popped with a double fine... for endangering
> no one. I think that is bull****.

Exactly. And in IL, there will be a piece of blocked off 100 ft of shoulder
with no workers at night on a sunday and the construction zone speed
limit is valid and may be enforced.

(Brent P) wrote in
:

> In article >, Joe
> wrote:
>> (Brent P) wrote in
>
>>> So all laws are good and need to be obeyed because their laws eh?
>
>> Some laws suck, but they're still laws. You have a choice. Either
>> obey them or risk the consequences.
>
> Considerable difference from the law is the law mantra.

Esoteric bull****.

>>> Did your grandfather drink during prohibition? Would you?
>
>> I honestly don't know and don't care. It's not an issue.
>
> Prohibitionists still exist, and they are still out there trying to
> tell other people what they may consume. Drug prohibition has never
> ended. Or maybe you don't care because you don't drink or do drugs.
> It doesn't bother you when the thing that is banned is something you
> don't have. They aren't coming for you today.

You sound like a '70s rebel without a cause.

>>> Do you know how many laws you break in a day? I can't even tell
>>> you how many I break. There are so many laws about this and that,
>>> I don't even know them all. And I know and follow many many more
>>> than most people.
>
>>> I even know that as an adult I cannot legally ride a bicycle on
>>> the sidewalk. Numerous driver's insist on it however. The law
>>> states to use the road and ride by the letter of the IL vehicle
>>> code.
>
>> So what's your point?
>
> My point is obvious for anyone with the intelligence of the average
> house cat. There are so many laws that they are selectively enforced
> and nobody can get through the day without breaking them.

I'll repeat: So what the hell are you whining about? Either work to
change those laws or break them. Whining and not doing anything is
just plain whining. You sound like a freakin' kid who can't get his
way.

>> Here's the deal that you and a lot of others are missing: If you
>> don't like laws and insist on breaking them, go right ahead and
>> take the risk that comes with it. And since you're doing your own
>> thing, don't whine about the fact that the laws exist - you're
>> ignoring them anyway. You've got no basis for complaining.
>
> I hope someone starts punishing you for every law you break
> everyday. Including the ones you don't know about. Then, maybe,
> you'll grow a bit of a clue.

Dude, you really need to wake up.

(Brent P) wrote in
:

> In article .net>,
> SVTKate wrote:
>
>> It's situations like this that can get very dangerous. I DO wish
>> that they would require the construction speed signs be covered
>> when the crews have gone home. So that normal traffic can flow. If
>> the road conditions permit it of course.
>
> Yep. Most of the construction zones can support 60+mph traffic
> safely when nobody is around. And that's when I normally drive them,
> when nobody is around. On weekdays, traffic will naturally slow to
> below 45mph.
>
>> Even if a soul isn't on the site, if you exceed the speed limit in
>> a construction zone, you can get popped with a double fine... for
>> endangering no one. I think that is bull****.
>
> Exactly. And in IL, there will be a piece of blocked off 100 ft of
> shoulder with no workers at night on a sunday and the construction
> zone speed limit is valid and may be enforced.

It's unbelieveable that neither of you realize the possible dangers of
going through a construction zone whether workers are present or not.
Common sense alone dictates caution when passing through any kind of
construction site, whether it's in a car or on foot. You guys sound
just like 16-year olds who just got their license.

In article >, Spike wrote:
> Personally, I could care less, if BrentP or anyone else wants to
> exceed the posted limits and/or violate any other traffic laws.
> UNTIL
> Their conduct infringes upon the rights and safety of others.

I don't. Period. end of story. Lots of people pass me, but I keep right
except to pass so it's a non-issue unless I am below the average speed of
traffic, as in the construction zones. However, when I want the
same courtsey, and it doesn't happen, people like you call me a reckless
speeder and other nonsense. It's simply that you lack a rational
arguement so it's easier to try and attack me personally.


> As I'm sure
> most know, in some parts of the country, the weather can be perfectly
> clear, and then suddenly you're in a torrential downpour, a sand or
> dust or snow storm, or valley fog.

5mph speed limits all the time then!

> One car brakes because they lost
> visibility, and that 75mph driver plows right into them. Anyone recall
> what the record for a chain collision is or how many died?

A speed limit does protect against idiotcy.


> The traffic laws are not there simply to restrict you. They are there
> for the welfare and safety of all users. As I recall, they are called
> "public" roadways, meaning they are there for everyone's use.

The speed limit doesn't protect me from idiots. The speed limit is the
only thing that is enforced to any large degree. Speed limits being set
to below the normal speed of traffic have caused an errosion of respect
for all other aspects of the vehicle code. Meanwhile, the mantra of speed
kills goes on. Any idiotcy is ok, so long as you do it slowly.

Why don't cops stomp out lack of turn signal usage? Cutting people off?
failure to keep right except to pass? Proper use of turn lanes? Shoulder
passing? Acceleration lane passing? Why not? Why is only speeding
enforced on any consistant mass basis?

> Break the law if you want. If you get cited, points assessed, a fine,
> increased insurance rates, don't whine. You knew the risk and you took
> it upon yourself.

So when is the _REST_ of the vehicle code going to be enforced to the
degree speeding is? If speeding were the end all of safety based vehicle
code enforcement as we are told it is then, the autobahn data wouldn't
show speed to be irrelevant. _AND_ fines for speeding in the USA would be
in the thousands of dollars if not jail time. No, instead, they sit just
below what it costs most people to fight the tickets. So it's most
_PROFITABLE_.

Start enforcing the _REST_ of the vehicle code besides speeding and then
that way, people won't end up in each other's path so often. When they
aren't intruding into each other's path, speed becomes irrelevant. That's
the secret to road safety.

> And, if you are the cause, and we're picking up the body parts of
> children who had no choice in the matter of whether you sped or their
> parents obeyed the, law... you better hope to hell you died at the
> scene.

It's not speed that kills, it's idiotcy. It's that _OTHER_ part of the
vehicle code you fail to enforce.

> It's easy for the BrentPs of the world to whine about having
> laws to obey which they think stupid... but they are never the ones
> who have to pick up the pieces of broken bodies of innocents.

I was driving the speed limit again today. I had people tailgating me and
flipping me off. I drive a lot slower than you think I do. I simply
realize how idiotic the policies of road safety are in this nation and
how safety is being used as an excuse to line pockets with money. How
emotion is used instead of logic. I have hard data, studies, and logic on
my side. Speed kills has massaged statistics, emotional pleas, and of
course attacks on the character of anyone who challenges it's beliefs.

It's simple. If the posted limits in the USA are so well set, and
exceeding them so dangerous, make speeding 1 year in prison, MINIMUM. Do
it and do it now. If it's about safety that's what you should do. If it's
not about safety, but about money, then the status quo is what you want.

> As for BrentP, if it's so bad here, and so good in Germany, leave.
> Surrender your citizenship, and leave.

The sure sign you have no rational arguement. LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT.
Sorry, I'd rather work towards getting the USA first in the world road
safety again. The first step is to end the speed-kills-religion and
replace it with disciplined driving.

(Brent P) wrote in
:

> In article > , Joe
> wrote:
>
>> I fully understand what you wrote. I simply put it in extreme
>> terms to make my point.
>
> So you are doing character attack by strawman.

A typical paranoid response. Goes right along with the whining about
all the laws you don't like.

> Lame.

Want to see lame? Have a good look in the mirror.

> When you can
> handle actual debate, let me know.

You've shown nothing that indicates you're even capable of a debate.
All you've been doing is whining.

In article > , Joe wrote:

> I fully understand what you wrote. I simply put it in extreme terms
> to make my point.

So you are doing character attack by strawman. Lame. When you can handle
actual debate, let me know.

In article >, Joe wrote:
> I agree. Every day I commute to work and back, I see at least several
> nut jobs weaving in and out of traffic (mostly in wannabe ricemobiles)
> doing 15-20mph above what everybody else is doing.

But joan claybrook et al believe that forcing faster traffic to weave
through was -safer- because it made them go slower.

I don't believe that, but that's the tennet of lane blocking in the speed
kills religion.

> The bottom line though, is that I really don't care anymore what the
> speed limit is. Unless I'm speeding to blend in with everybody else,
> I'll obey it simply because I don't want any points. And so what if I
> get to my destination 10 minutes later? It certainly isn't going to
> kill me...

See the following chart:

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov//////tfhrc/s...mages/fig1.gif
http://www.sha.state.md.us/images/85thchart.gif

I like to base my risk assement on actual data than warm fuzzy feelings.

I've experimented with various travel speeds and concluded that this
chart matches well with my experience. I've nearly been killed on more
than one occasion because I was following the speed limit that was
severely underposted. Our lady of blessed acceleration is what saved me.