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Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 18th 18, 06:00 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,uk.rec.cars.maintenance
ultred ragnusen
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Posts: 54
Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

wrote:

>>First question is what is the practical difference between these three 21mm
>>(13/16ths) "sockets" for the lug bolts on the car I was working on today?
>>http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/socket_ends.jpg
>>1. The standard lug wrench (green) has 6 points, each at a sharp angle.
>>2. The impact socket (black) has 6 points, each at a semicircular angle.
>>3. The standard socket (chrome) has 12 points, each at a sharp angle.

>
> The impact socket is superior for that application - whether using an
> impact driver or not. A 12 point socket is better in situations where
> fine motion is required.


This is good to know that the impact socket is superior, probably for two
reasons, right?
1. It has those radius corners (someone said it reduces stress on both the
nuts and the socket itself).
2. It is stronger overall (presumably)

Since there is always a drawback, I think the drawback might be:
3. They're "fatter" it seems, than my normal sockets
4. They don't seem to come in 12-point sizes (at least mine aren't)
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  #12  
Old February 18th 18, 06:04 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,uk.rec.cars.maintenance
ultred ragnusen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 54
Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

wrote:

>> Does anyone know how to calibrate a torque wrench at home?
>>

>
> Clamp head with handle horizontal; hang bucket of water measured
> distance from head; add water until clicks; weight bucket; do sum.


On a diagram, I see how hanging a known weight a known distance from the
head will test the torque to see if it's correct ... but ...

And I can visualize how to mechanically clamp a bolt in a vise to hang the
torque wrench on - but then - how do you calibrate the two types?
  #13  
Old February 18th 18, 06:06 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,uk.rec.cars.maintenance
ultred ragnusen
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Posts: 54
Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

wrote:

> If you are using chrome lug nuts with sharp corners a 12 point
> probably works fine but if you are talking about garden variety
> factory lug nuts that have "been around" a while, a 12 point is a lot
> more likely to just round them off than a 6 point. Have you ever seen
> a tire store using 12 point sockets on lug nuts?


That's what I was wondering but I didn't know why.

Does a 12-point tend to round nuts more than a 6 point?

Why?

Is it because there's more force against the nut's point?
  #14  
Old February 18th 18, 06:10 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,uk.rec.cars.maintenance
ultred ragnusen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 54
Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

wrote:

> He could be referencing the special torque bars that are used by many
> tire shops. They look like an extension bar, but they come in
> different thicknesses and are color coded to indicate the torque which
> can be applied using each one.


I just mean the right-angle simple bar extension that you have to have in
order to keep the torque wrench away from the sidewall of the tire.

You have to have an extension no matter what, because the torque wrench
hits the tire sidewall because the lug nuts are on the hub but the tire
sidewall sticks out a few inches.

Even a deep socket isn't long enough, so the least I can add by way of
extension is a deep socket plus a 2 or 3 inch extension bar (whatever I
have that is shortest).

I was asking if I used a 3 inch extension bar off the deep socket, or, if I
used a 6 inch extension bar, would it matter for the torque?

I think not - but I've heard people say use the shortest extension bar you
can get your hands on. I don't understand why. It should be the same torque
if I used a 16-inch extension bar, right?
  #15  
Old February 18th 18, 06:11 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,uk.rec.cars.maintenance
ultred ragnusen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 54
Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

wrote:

>>> Second question, are these "cut marks" on a lug nut normal?
>>> http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/dented_nuts.jpg

>>
>> Yes, they are there from the factory.

>
> Why? Not all nuts have this mark, and in the UK nuts with this mark are
> generally used for hoses that contain inflammable gases.


I also wonder why the cuts are there, all at the same depth on the nut.

A friend I just spoke to says his car has them too, so, they're pretty
common.

If they're made at the factory, why?
  #16  
Old February 18th 18, 06:18 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,uk.rec.cars.maintenance
ultred ragnusen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 54
Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

wrote:

>>Third question is related to this combination pictu
>>http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/torquewrench.jpg
>>Where this question is a combination question of:
>>a. Why is the green 21mm "lug wrench" so very short compared to all others?

> To fit in the hole they store the tools in.


I can't disagree that the shape and length of a purposeful "lug wrench" is
designed just for removing lug nuts, so certainly that's why it's curved
the way it is (to fit around the tire sidewall).

Certainly smaller is easier to fit in a car.

Since you can't use a torque wrench and a lug wrench at the same time, I
was wondering if they made it just short enough so that a normal person
could not apply "too much" torque to the lug bolts?

Basically, I was asking if it's short because that way, a normal human can
only apply about 85 foot pounds which is all they can do with that short
bar and their hands?

Is that just an urban myth?
  #17  
Old February 18th 18, 06:32 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,uk.rec.cars.maintenance
critcher
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Posts: 3
Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

On 18/02/2018 00:48, ultred ragnusen wrote:
> Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools on this vehicle
> whose tires I rotated today and which I plan on rotating every 4K miles (6K
> km).
>
> First question is what is the practical difference between these three 21mm
> (13/16ths) "sockets" for the lug bolts on the car I was working on today?
> http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/socket_ends.jpg
> 1. The standard lug wrench (green) has 6 points, each at a sharp angle.
> 2. The impact socket (black) has 6 points, each at a semicircular angle.
> 3. The standard socket (chrome) has 12 points, each at a sharp angle.
>
> Second question, are these "cut marks" on a lug nut normal?
> http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/dented_nuts.jpg
> I always use deep sockets, which fit over the whole nut, so I know I didn't
> make these marks - but what did make the marks? Are they factory original?
> If so, why?
>
> Third question is related to this combination pictu
> http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/torquewrench.jpg
> Where this question is a combination question of:
> a. Why is the green 21mm "lug wrench" so very short compared to all others?
> b. What's the practical difference, if any, with respect to torquing lug
> bolts to 85 foot pounds (115 N-m), between the two types of torque wrenches
> shown?
> c. Does anyone even use that bottom-most "auger style" ratchet bar for fast
> removal anymore? (I don't have power bolt-removal tools so that's why I use
> it.)
> And, the most important question, for torquing lug nuts, is
> d. Does the torque change depending on the length of the socket extension
> bar?
>
> Fourth question is more of an observation than a question, where I combed
> the tires for rocks and nails, as I always do when I rotate the tires every
> 4K miles, when I saw this tiny little steel dot embedded in the rubber in
> each of the front tires.
> http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/splinter1.jpg
>
> That tiny dot turned out to be this funny-shaped steel sliver, pointy side
> was pointing into the tire in both front tires.
> http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/splinter2.jpg
>
> The question is whether these embedded rocks and splinters, of which I
> always find between 50 and 100 in each tire (mostly tiny pebbles and bits
> of glass stuck in the tiny sipes of the tire tread) would eventually fall
> out as the rubber wears (negating the need to periodically pick them out at
> each tire rotation)?
> http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/splinter3.jpg
>
> In summary, I ask these basic questions simply to learn more about how to
> better rotate tires every 4K miles (6.5K km).
>



for gods sake get a life.

  #18  
Old February 18th 18, 06:40 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Robin[_5_]
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Posts: 2
Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

On 18/02/2018 17:04, ultred ragnusen wrote:
> wrote:
>
>>> Does anyone know how to calibrate a torque wrench at home?
>>>

>>
>> Clamp head with handle horizontal; hang bucket of water measured
>> distance from head; add water until clicks; weight bucket; do sum.

>
> On a diagram, I see how hanging a known weight a known distance from the
> head will test the torque to see if it's correct ... but ...
>
> And I can visualize how to mechanically clamp a bolt in a vise to hang the
> torque wrench on - but then - how do you calibrate the two types?
>

There are loads of videos on YouTube which may help - eg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZUDH13yln0

NB he failed to correct for the weight of the torque wrench itself which
- to a first approximation - acts through a point halfway along its
length

If it's a wrench where you read the torque then you can just take a
reading with a bucket of water and compare it to the results of you sum
- and repeat for heavier/lighter buckets.

If you've a hydraulic wrench then I pass.
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
  #19  
Old February 18th 18, 06:42 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Mrcheerful
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Posts: 14
Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

On 18/02/2018 17:00, ultred ragnusen wrote:
> wrote:
>
>>> First question is what is the practical difference between these three 21mm
>>> (13/16ths) "sockets" for the lug bolts on the car I was working on today?
>>> http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/socket_ends.jpg
>>> 1. The standard lug wrench (green) has 6 points, each at a sharp angle.
>>> 2. The impact socket (black) has 6 points, each at a semicircular angle.
>>> 3. The standard socket (chrome) has 12 points, each at a sharp angle.

>>
>> The impact socket is superior for that application - whether using an
>> impact driver or not. A 12 point socket is better in situations where
>> fine motion is required.

>
> This is good to know that the impact socket is superior, probably for two
> reasons, right?
> 1. It has those radius corners (someone said it reduces stress on both the
> nuts and the socket itself).
> 2. It is stronger overall (presumably)
>
> Since there is always a drawback, I think the drawback might be:
> 3. They're "fatter" it seems, than my normal sockets
> 4. They don't seem to come in 12-point sizes (at least mine aren't)
>


I use single hex impact sockets for 99.9 percent of jobs, there are
practically speaking no occasions when they are too fat to get
somewhere. (better makes are thinner sided than cheap ones)

Unless you have 12 sided nuts/bolts, then you do not need 12 sided
sockets (there are some odd cars/equipment which use 12 sided hardware)
  #20  
Old February 18th 18, 06:43 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Mrcheerful
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14
Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

On 18/02/2018 16:57, ultred ragnusen wrote:
> wrote:
>
>>> First question is what is the practical difference between these three 21mm
>>> (13/16ths) "sockets" for the lug bolts on the car I was working on today?
>>> http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/socket_ends.jpg
>>> 1. The standard lug wrench (green) has 6 points, each at a sharp angle.
>>> 2. The impact socket (black) has 6 points, each at a semicircular angle.
>>> 3. The standard socket (chrome) has 12 points, each at a sharp angle.

>>
>> The impact socket has a radius at the points to remove the stress
>> concentration that would split the socket when used with impact tools.
>> It also contacts the nut on the strong flank and not the weak point.

>
> That makes sense! So the rounded corners take the 'stress' off the nut and
> the rounded corner also takes the stress off from the potential for a
> hairline crack of the socket wall?
>
>> A full hex is better than a 12 point for nearly all uses.

>
> I was wondering if a 12-point is "weaker" than a 6 point?
> Is at 6 point stronger, weaker, or the same stress on a nut/socket as a 12
> point?
>
>> You can always
>> rotate the socket 1/4 turn on the 1/2" drive to get 12th of a turn when
>> space to swing the bar is tight.

>
> I never thought of that!
> The math confused me so may I reiterate what I "think" you just said?
>
> Am I correct in assuming you're saying that you can rotate a 12-point
> socket by 1/12th, while you can only rotate a 6-point socket by 1/6th ---
> but ... if you cleverly rotate /both/ the 6-point socket by 1/6th and the
> half-inch socket wrench end of the socket by 1/4, you get the same effect?
>


yes, but it is so rarely needed it is not worth worrying about
 




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