If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#71
|
|||
|
|||
Fuel comparison charts
In article >,
Ed Huntress > wrote: > On Mon, 1 Jul 2013 08:44:58 -0500, "." > wrote: > > >"Ed Huntress" > wrote in message > .. . > >> On Sun, 30 Jun 2013 22:16:19 -0500, Martin Eastburn > >> > wrote: > >> > >>>Washington holds back drilling - supply and demand. > >> > >> No, Washington isn't holding back drilling. They've let out hundreds > >> of drilling leases that the oil companies aren't using. Prices have > >> come down, not up. There is more supply than demand. > >> > >>>Washington taxes layer upon layer onto the fuel as a > >>>tax source. > >> > >> No, there is one federal tax on gasoline: 18.4 cents/gallon, where > >> it's been since 1993. With inflation, its value keeps going down. > >> > >>> > >>>The additives MTBE (trash junk that pollutes ground water) and now > >>>grain alcohol that robs the national store, world food bank, and > >>>home base food for all. Feed prices are up and fuel is also. > >> > >> Corn ethanol has had some influence on grain prices. Otherwise, every > >> one of your assertions here is a myth, Martin. > >> > >> Ed Huntress > > > >During an expose years ago on "60 Minutes", the question > >"which is the more toxic, MTBE or the gasoline itself?" was > >posed. The definitive reply stated conclusively that it was > >actually the latter, rendering the entire alarmist groundwater > >contamination issue by MTBE effectively moot. > > I wondered about that. I mean, how much more toxic can it be than > gasoline? > > I remember the discussion about the show you mention, but I never saw > it. Interesting. > Don't think it is the toxicity but rather the persistence. In otherwords, it doesn't break down as quickly so it can be less nasty but for a longer period of time. From the EPA website. Because MTBE dissolves easily in water and does not "cling" to soil very well, it migrates faster and farther in the ground than other gasoline components, thus making it more likely to contaminate public water systems and private drinking water wells. MTBE does not degrade (breakdown) easily and is difficult and costly to remove from ground water. How long will MTBE remain in water? MTBE is generally more resistant to natural biodegradation than other gasoline components. Some monitoring wells have shown little overall reduction in MTBE concentration over several years which suggests that MTBE is relatively persistent in ground water. In contrast, studies of surface water (lakes and reservoirs have shown that MTBE volatilizes (evaporates) relatively quickly. -- America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe |
Ads |
#72
|
|||
|
|||
Fuel comparison charts
On Mon, 01 Jul 2013 17:27:27 -0400, Kurt Ullman >
wrote: >In article >, > Ed Huntress > wrote: > >> On Mon, 1 Jul 2013 08:44:58 -0500, "." > wrote: >> >> >"Ed Huntress" > wrote in message >> .. . >> >> On Sun, 30 Jun 2013 22:16:19 -0500, Martin Eastburn >> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >>>Washington holds back drilling - supply and demand. >> >> >> >> No, Washington isn't holding back drilling. They've let out hundreds >> >> of drilling leases that the oil companies aren't using. Prices have >> >> come down, not up. There is more supply than demand. >> >> >> >>>Washington taxes layer upon layer onto the fuel as a >> >>>tax source. >> >> >> >> No, there is one federal tax on gasoline: 18.4 cents/gallon, where >> >> it's been since 1993. With inflation, its value keeps going down. >> >> >> >>> >> >>>The additives MTBE (trash junk that pollutes ground water) and now >> >>>grain alcohol that robs the national store, world food bank, and >> >>>home base food for all. Feed prices are up and fuel is also. >> >> >> >> Corn ethanol has had some influence on grain prices. Otherwise, every >> >> one of your assertions here is a myth, Martin. >> >> >> >> Ed Huntress >> > >> >During an expose years ago on "60 Minutes", the question >> >"which is the more toxic, MTBE or the gasoline itself?" was >> >posed. The definitive reply stated conclusively that it was >> >actually the latter, rendering the entire alarmist groundwater >> >contamination issue by MTBE effectively moot. >> >> I wondered about that. I mean, how much more toxic can it be than >> gasoline? >> >> I remember the discussion about the show you mention, but I never saw >> it. Interesting. >> > Don't think it is the toxicity but rather the persistence. In >otherwords, it doesn't break down as quickly so it can be less nasty but >for a longer period of time. > >From the EPA website. >Because MTBE dissolves easily in water and does not "cling" to soil very >well, it migrates faster and farther in the ground than other gasoline >components, thus making it more likely to contaminate public water >systems and private drinking water wells. MTBE does not degrade >(breakdown) easily and is difficult and costly to remove from ground >water. >How long will MTBE remain in water? >MTBE is generally more resistant to natural biodegradation than other >gasoline components. Some monitoring wells have shown little overall >reduction in MTBE concentration over several years which suggests that >MTBE is relatively persistent in ground water. In contrast, studies of >surface water (lakes and reservoirs have shown that MTBE volatilizes >(evaporates) relatively quickly. Aha. Very interesting. Thanks, Kurt. -- Ed Huntress |
#73
|
|||
|
|||
Fuel comparison charts
"Kurt Ullman" > wrote in message
... > In article >, > Ed Huntress > wrote: > >> On Mon, 1 Jul 2013 08:44:58 -0500, "." > wrote: >> >> >"Ed Huntress" > wrote in message >> .. . >> >> On Sun, 30 Jun 2013 22:16:19 -0500, Martin Eastburn >> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >>>Washington holds back drilling - supply and demand. >> >> >> >> No, Washington isn't holding back drilling. They've let out hundreds >> >> of drilling leases that the oil companies aren't using. Prices have >> >> come down, not up. There is more supply than demand. >> >> >> >>>Washington taxes layer upon layer onto the fuel as a >> >>>tax source. >> >> >> >> No, there is one federal tax on gasoline: 18.4 cents/gallon, where >> >> it's been since 1993. With inflation, its value keeps going down. >> >>> >> >>>The additives MTBE (trash junk that pollutes ground water) and now >> >>>grain alcohol that robs the national store, world food bank, and >> >>>home base food for all. Feed prices are up and fuel is also. >> >> >> >> Corn ethanol has had some influence on grain prices. Otherwise, every >> >> one of your assertions here is a myth, Martin. >> >> >> >> Ed Huntress >> > >> >During an expose years ago on "60 Minutes", the question >> >"which is the more toxic, MTBE or the gasoline itself?" was >> >posed. The definitive reply stated conclusively that it was >> >actually the latter, rendering the entire alarmist groundwater >> >contamination issue by MTBE effectively moot. >> >> I wondered about that. I mean, how much more toxic can it be than >> gasoline? >> >> I remember the discussion about the show you mention, but I never saw >> it. Interesting. > > Don't think it is the toxicity but rather the persistence. In > otherwords, it doesn't break down as quickly so it can be less nasty but > for a longer period of time. > > From the EPA website. > Because MTBE dissolves easily in water and does not "cling" to soil very > well, it migrates faster and farther in the ground than other gasoline > components, thus making it more likely to contaminate public water > systems and private drinking water wells. MTBE does not degrade > (breakdown) easily and is difficult and costly to remove from ground > water. > How long will MTBE remain in water? > MTBE is generally more resistant to natural biodegradation than other > gasoline components. Some monitoring wells have shown little overall > reduction in MTBE concentration over several years which suggests that > MTBE is relatively persistent in ground water. In contrast, studies of > surface water (lakes and reservoirs have shown that MTBE volatilizes > (evaporates) relatively quickly. > -- > America is at that awkward stage. It's too late > to work within the system, but too early to shoot > the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe Unlike the petroleum distillates it is in solution with, MTBE is easily removed by, to name but one, common activated charcoal filtration systems. The scare tactic was nothing more than a smoke screen generated by the petroleum refiners and distributors in a cynical attempt to misdirect the populace (by blaming a government mandated additive) and conceal the actual problem, leaking fuel storage tanks. |
#74
|
|||
|
|||
Fuel comparison charts
Ed Huntress wrote: > > On Mon, 01 Jul 2013 10:16:08 -0500, jim > > wrote: > > > > > > >Ed Huntress wrote: > >> > > > >> > > >> >During an expose years ago on "60 Minutes", the question > >> >"which is the more toxic, MTBE or the gasoline itself?" was > >> >posed. The definitive reply stated conclusively that it was > >> >actually the latter, rendering the entire alarmist groundwater > >> >contamination issue by MTBE effectively moot. > >> > >> I wondered about that. I mean, how much more toxic can it be than > >> gasoline? > > > >MTBE mixes with water. Gasoline doesn't. > >It also does not bind as well to soil as gasoline molecules. > >That means it travels quickly with rain water into aquifers. > >The EPA for years said it was safe until it started showing > >up in water supplies wherever it was used. > > So what's the bottom line on MTBE as it's understood today? As far as I know it was banned in a many states. That is when the EPA and oil cos gave up promoting it and switched to ethanol. > > -- > Ed Huntress |
#75
|
|||
|
|||
Fuel comparison charts
On Mon, 1 Jul 2013 17:06:00 -0500, "." > wrote:
>"Kurt Ullman" > wrote in message ... >> In article >, >> Ed Huntress > wrote: >> >>> On Mon, 1 Jul 2013 08:44:58 -0500, "." > wrote: >>> >>> >"Ed Huntress" > wrote in message >>> .. . >>> >> On Sun, 30 Jun 2013 22:16:19 -0500, Martin Eastburn >>> >> > wrote: >>> >> >>> >>>Washington holds back drilling - supply and demand. >>> >> >>> >> No, Washington isn't holding back drilling. They've let out hundreds >>> >> of drilling leases that the oil companies aren't using. Prices have >>> >> come down, not up. There is more supply than demand. >>> >> >>> >>>Washington taxes layer upon layer onto the fuel as a >>> >>>tax source. >>> >> >>> >> No, there is one federal tax on gasoline: 18.4 cents/gallon, where >>> >> it's been since 1993. With inflation, its value keeps going down. >>> >>> >>> >>>The additives MTBE (trash junk that pollutes ground water) and now >>> >>>grain alcohol that robs the national store, world food bank, and >>> >>>home base food for all. Feed prices are up and fuel is also. >>> >> >>> >> Corn ethanol has had some influence on grain prices. Otherwise, every >>> >> one of your assertions here is a myth, Martin. >>> >> >>> >> Ed Huntress >>> > >>> >During an expose years ago on "60 Minutes", the question >>> >"which is the more toxic, MTBE or the gasoline itself?" was >>> >posed. The definitive reply stated conclusively that it was >>> >actually the latter, rendering the entire alarmist groundwater >>> >contamination issue by MTBE effectively moot. >>> >>> I wondered about that. I mean, how much more toxic can it be than >>> gasoline? >>> >>> I remember the discussion about the show you mention, but I never saw >>> it. Interesting. >> >> Don't think it is the toxicity but rather the persistence. In >> otherwords, it doesn't break down as quickly so it can be less nasty but >> for a longer period of time. >> >> From the EPA website. >> Because MTBE dissolves easily in water and does not "cling" to soil very >> well, it migrates faster and farther in the ground than other gasoline >> components, thus making it more likely to contaminate public water >> systems and private drinking water wells. MTBE does not degrade >> (breakdown) easily and is difficult and costly to remove from ground >> water. >> How long will MTBE remain in water? >> MTBE is generally more resistant to natural biodegradation than other >> gasoline components. Some monitoring wells have shown little overall >> reduction in MTBE concentration over several years which suggests that >> MTBE is relatively persistent in ground water. In contrast, studies of >> surface water (lakes and reservoirs have shown that MTBE volatilizes >> (evaporates) relatively quickly. >> -- >> America is at that awkward stage. It's too late >> to work within the system, but too early to shoot >> the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe > >Unlike the petroleum distillates it is in solution with, MTBE >is easily removed by, to name but one, common activated >charcoal filtration systems. The scare tactic was nothing >more than a smoke screen generated by the petroleum >refiners and distributors in a cynical attempt to misdirect >the populace (by blaming a government mandated additive) >and conceal the actual problem, leaking fuel storage tanks. > So we should believe someone who has no name, nym or valid email address? Right. Oh **** yes. Gunner -- ""Almost all liberal behavioral tropes track the impotent rage of small children. Thus, for example, there is also the popular tactic of repeating some stupid, meaningless phrase a billion times" Arms for hostages, arms for hostages, arms for hostages, it's just about sex, just about sex, just about sex, dumb,dumb, money in politics,money in politics, Enron, Enron, Enron. Nothing repeated with mind-numbing frequency in all major news outlets will not be believed by some members of the populace. It is the permanence of evil; you can't stop it." (Ann Coulter) |
#76
|
|||
|
|||
Fuel comparison charts
"Gunner Asch" > wrote in message
... >>Unlike the petroleum distillates it is in solution with, MTBE >>is easily removed by, to name but one, common activated >>charcoal filtration systems. The scare tactic was nothing >>more than a smoke screen generated by the petroleum >>refiners and distributors in a cynical attempt to misdirect >>the populace (by blaming a government mandated additive) >>and conceal the actual problem, leaking fuel storage tanks. >> > So we should believe someone who has no name, nym or valid email > address? > > Right. Oh **** yes. > > Gunner You shouldn't believe ANYONE based on their name or email address, you mouth-breathing knuckle-dragging moron. |
#77
|
|||
|
|||
Fuel comparison charts
On Mon, 1 Jul 2013 19:00:59 -0500, "." > wrote:
>Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!go blin2!goblin.stu.neva.ru!aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail >From: "." > >Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.home.repair,rec.autos. tech >Subject: Fuel comparison charts >Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2013 19:00:59 -0500 >Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server >Lines: 21 >Message-ID: > >References: > > > > > > > > > > > > >NNTP-Posting-Host: eGFUODT6QZ6/1XNBhyGyIQ.user.speranza.aioe.org >X-Complaints-To: >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 >X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original >X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.8.2 >X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 >X-Priority: 3 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >Bytes: 2074 >Xref: number.nntp.dca.giganews.com rec.autos.tech:571576 alt.home.repair:1481396 rec.crafts.metalworking:1443033 > >"Gunner Asch" > wrote in message .. . >>>Unlike the petroleum distillates it is in solution with, MTBE >>>is easily removed by, to name but one, common activated >>>charcoal filtration systems. The scare tactic was nothing >>>more than a smoke screen generated by the petroleum >>>refiners and distributors in a cynical attempt to misdirect >>>the populace (by blaming a government mandated additive) >>>and conceal the actual problem, leaking fuel storage tanks. >>> >> So we should believe someone who has no name, nym or valid email >> address? >> >> Right. Oh **** yes. >> >> Gunner > >You shouldn't believe ANYONE based on their name or >email address, you mouth-breathing knuckle-dragging moron. > We obviously pay a lot of attention to your nym....(not)... Laugh laugh laugh!! Begone troll!! <plink> Gunner -- ""Almost all liberal behavioral tropes track the impotent rage of small children. Thus, for example, there is also the popular tactic of repeating some stupid, meaningless phrase a billion times" Arms for hostages, arms for hostages, arms for hostages, it's just about sex, just about sex, just about sex, dumb,dumb, money in politics,money in politics, Enron, Enron, Enron. Nothing repeated with mind-numbing frequency in all major news outlets will not be believed by some members of the populace. It is the permanence of evil; you can't stop it." (Ann Coulter) |
#78
|
|||
|
|||
Fuel comparison charts
Leases don't mean drilling. Billions of dollars were spent
on the large state size leases offshore of California. Then after paying the government for the leases, the loonies pleaded and got a drilling halt and forbade wells out in the water. Large tracks are held at bay in the gulf. Some were active but shut down after the spill. The area near Miami was rich in oil, but it was held back because of ugly rigs in the skyline. Then Cuba / China moved in and their rig can be seen from Miami. MTBE dropped miles / gallon. It polluted ground water. And there is a huge bubble of it at the bottom of Lake Tahoe. Ethanol is hygroscopic and when a tank is a breather and not sealed, it pulls in cool damp air at night, and condenses into the tank. This is a common failure mode of gas now. Special ethanol additives have been developed to trap the water and allow it to be burned. Typically it sits and freezes - cracking small motor parts. I try to run all of them wide open to use up the gas before letting them sit. And taxes are more than Federal. Tax on the whole product string. And having the Gasoline and Crude oil different commodity and have been the souce of the 'excessive gain tax' - where the oil companies buy crude and sell the results of their work at a much higher value due to the demand price on gas and anti-demand on Crude. So taxes are from many levels and many methods. And I live in cattle, gas/oil/timber/farming area of Texas - and the large feed mills have had prices rise (brother worked at a large mill) and the chicken / turkey feed is up as well as dairy cattle feed / horse and pig feed. Any product that used grain - higher gas / fuel cost - rises the cost of feed. Supply and demand is another. Taking feed corn to be turned into this poor example of fuel is shameful. It was easy. Brazil has special engines. They did it correctly. Indy cars did it also. Martin On 7/1/2013 7:23 AM, Ed Huntress wrote: > On Sun, 30 Jun 2013 22:16:19 -0500, Martin Eastburn > > wrote: > >> Washington holds back drilling - supply and demand. > > No, Washington isn't holding back drilling. They've let out hundreds > of drilling leases that the oil companies aren't using. Prices have > come down, not up. There is more supply than demand. > >> Washington taxes layer upon layer onto the fuel as a >> tax source. > > No, there is one federal tax on gasoline: 18.4 cents/gallon, where > it's been since 1993. With inflation, its value keeps going down. > >> >> The additives MTBE (trash junk that pollutes ground water) and now >> grain alcohol that robs the national store, world food bank, and >> home base food for all. Feed prices are up and fuel is also. > > Corn ethanol has had some influence on grain prices. Otherwise, every > one of your assertions here is a myth, Martin. > > Ed Huntress > >> >> Martin >> >> On 6/30/2013 6:08 PM, Ed Huntress wrote: >>> On Sun, 30 Jun 2013 18:52:28 -0400, "Stormin Mormon" >>> > wrote: >>> >>>> Takes a lot of grains and starches off the market, that could have been used for feeding animals or humans. Or making manufacturing. On the other hand, I've heard we have plenty of oil in the ground in the USA, and off the coast. Our fuel shortages and high prices are due to Washington DC, not due to any real shortage. >>> >>> There is no fuel shortage. Prices are roughly the same as they were in >>> 1980, allowing for general inflation. Washington has almost nothing to >>> do with fuel costs. >>> >>> We have plenty of grains and starch to eat. Those are not issues. >>> >>> All in all, Chris, that's a lot of mush inside your head, for one >>> person. Where do you get all that stuff? >>> |
#79
|
|||
|
|||
Fuel comparison charts
It was exposed that MTBE was made in Canada and a certain
small investor group - turned out to be advisory panel that voted for MTBE. MTBE has been banned as soon as anything else was useful in the place. California dumped it. Other states took longer but understood and got rid it it also. Martin On 7/1/2013 1:34 PM, Richard wrote: > On 7/1/2013 10:19 AM, Ed Huntress wrote: >> On Mon, 01 Jul 2013 10:16:08 -0500, > >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Ed Huntress wrote: >>>> >>> >>>>> >>>>> During an expose years ago on "60 Minutes", the question >>>>> "which is the more toxic, MTBE or the gasoline itself?" was >>>>> posed. The definitive reply stated conclusively that it was >>>>> actually the latter, rendering the entire alarmist groundwater >>>>> contamination issue by MTBE effectively moot. >>>> >>>> I wondered about that. I mean, how much more toxic can it be than >>>> gasoline? >>> >>> MTBE mixes with water. Gasoline doesn't. >>> It also does not bind as well to soil as gasoline molecules. >>> That means it travels quickly with rain water into aquifers. >>> The EPA for years said it was safe until it started showing >>> up in water supplies wherever it was used. >> >> So what's the bottom line on MTBE as it's understood today? >> > > > Like many things that our economy rides on - necessary evil... |
#80
|
|||
|
|||
Fuel comparison charts
Wonder about Tahoe. It went deep into the cold and
just created a big bubble. Maybe in shallow lakes that get mixed up all of the time by the wind and boats - it might release itself, but I seem to recall it was heaver than water. So agitation is required. Martin On 7/1/2013 4:27 PM, Kurt Ullman wrote: > In article >, > Ed Huntress > wrote: > >> On Mon, 1 Jul 2013 08:44:58 -0500, "." > wrote: >> >>> "Ed Huntress" > wrote in message >>> ... >>>> On Sun, 30 Jun 2013 22:16:19 -0500, Martin Eastburn >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>>> Washington holds back drilling - supply and demand. >>>> >>>> No, Washington isn't holding back drilling. They've let out hundreds >>>> of drilling leases that the oil companies aren't using. Prices have >>>> come down, not up. There is more supply than demand. >>>> >>>>> Washington taxes layer upon layer onto the fuel as a >>>>> tax source. >>>> >>>> No, there is one federal tax on gasoline: 18.4 cents/gallon, where >>>> it's been since 1993. With inflation, its value keeps going down. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> The additives MTBE (trash junk that pollutes ground water) and now >>>>> grain alcohol that robs the national store, world food bank, and >>>>> home base food for all. Feed prices are up and fuel is also. >>>> >>>> Corn ethanol has had some influence on grain prices. Otherwise, every >>>> one of your assertions here is a myth, Martin. >>>> >>>> Ed Huntress >>> >>> During an expose years ago on "60 Minutes", the question >>> "which is the more toxic, MTBE or the gasoline itself?" was >>> posed. The definitive reply stated conclusively that it was >>> actually the latter, rendering the entire alarmist groundwater >>> contamination issue by MTBE effectively moot. >> >> I wondered about that. I mean, how much more toxic can it be than >> gasoline? >> >> I remember the discussion about the show you mention, but I never saw >> it. Interesting. >> > Don't think it is the toxicity but rather the persistence. In > otherwords, it doesn't break down as quickly so it can be less nasty but > for a longer period of time. > > From the EPA website. > Because MTBE dissolves easily in water and does not "cling" to soil very > well, it migrates faster and farther in the ground than other gasoline > components, thus making it more likely to contaminate public water > systems and private drinking water wells. MTBE does not degrade > (breakdown) easily and is difficult and costly to remove from ground > water. > How long will MTBE remain in water? > MTBE is generally more resistant to natural biodegradation than other > gasoline components. Some monitoring wells have shown little overall > reduction in MTBE concentration over several years which suggests that > MTBE is relatively persistent in ground water. In contrast, studies of > surface water (lakes and reservoirs have shown that MTBE volatilizes > (evaporates) relatively quickly. > |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
CHARTS: The Great Decline Of American Driving | Jack Aalfs | Driving | 0 | December 14th 12 12:06 AM |
CHARTS: The Great Decline Of American Driving | gpsman | Driving | 15 | December 14th 12 12:05 AM |
comparison of waste of fuel A3 - quatro / normal | fox | Audi | 0 | October 30th 08 06:15 PM |
Windows Vista + Charts | Veli Hahn | Corvette | 0 | June 25th 08 07:51 PM |