You have the Right to Drive

On Mar 13, 5:26*pm, Ed Pirrero > wrote:
> On Mar 13, 3:57*pm, (Brent P) wrote:
> > In article >, Ed Pirrero wrote:
> > >On Mar 13, 3:29*pm, (Brent P)
> > >wrote:
> > >> In article >, Ed Pirrero wrote:
> > >> >On Mar 13, 9:56*am, (Brent P)
> > >> >wrote:
> > >> >> In article >, Ed Pirrero wrote:
> > >> >> >On Mar 12, 8:47*pm, (Matthew T. Russotto)
> > >> >> >wrote:
> > >> >> >> In article >,
> > >> >> >> Ed Pirrero > wrote:
>
> > >> >> >> >On Mar 12, 2:30=A0pm, (Matthew T. Russotto)
> > >> >> >> >wrote:
> > >> >> >> >> In article .=
> > >> >> >> >com>,
> > >> >> >> >> Ed Pirrero > wrote:
>
> > >> >> >> >> >On Mar 7, 5:21=3DA0am, (Brent P) wrote=
> > >> >> >> >:
> > >> >> >> >> >> =A0Licensing, like the TSA is about the power of government,
> > >> >> >> >> >> not our safety.
>
> > >> >> >> >> >Graduated licensing for teenagers is not about power, but directly
> > >> >> >> >> >about safety.
>
> > >> >> >> >> Graduated licensing for teenagers is about money. =A0Specifically, money
> > >> >> >> >> for insurance companies. =A0
>
> > >> >> >> >I'm sure you'll be able to cite all sorts of independent proof for
> > >> >> >> >that claim.
>
> > >> >> >> Pearls before, well, you know.
>
> > >> >> >I DAGS, and found ZERO connection between the insurance lobby and any
> > >> >> >of the graduated licensing laws I looked at.
>
> > >> >> >Without evidence of money changing hands, then it's hard to call it
> > >> >> >about money. *Impossible, in fact.
>
> > >> >> The principle he used apparently holds for RLCs...
>
> > >> >We already knew that RLCs were about money. *Because we have folks
> > >> >admitting as much on-the-record.
>
> > >> >But without such a thing for graduated licensing, it's merely
> > >> >speculation.
>
> > >> If it were, it is following the trend.
>
> > >What, the trend toward tin-foil haberdashery?
>
> > *sigh*
>
> > Speed cameras
> > red light cameras
> > congestion fees
> > roads being converted to toll roads.
> > reducing lanes on non-toll roads
> > abuser fees
> > removing parking places
> > confusing and conflicting parking restrictions
> > car siezures on accusation of street racing or something else.
>
> Other than the fact that they are related to cars, and involve
> regulation, how are these things at all related?
>
> Yes, yes - a vast, secret conspiracy to make Brent move to Montana
> with his guns and live off-grid until the Apocalypse arrives. *Aaack -
> my hat - the foil is ripped! *I'm getting the signals now!

Pirrero, in all truthfulness, your attempts to slap this conspiracy
loon label and tin-foil hat on Brent is in reality your own version of
a tin-foil hat designed to protect you from the truth. Keep it glued
tighty to your head, less the truth leaks in one day, Pirrero.

On Mar 14, 1:06*pm, (Brent P)
wrote:
> In article > , Matthew T. Russotto wrote:
> >In article >,
> >Ed Pirrero > wrote:
> >>On Mar 13, 6:31=A0pm, (Matthew T. Russotto)
> >>wrote:
>
> >>> Don't you ever get tired of the argument ad aluminum?
>
> >>I do. *I wish you folks wouldn't engage in the conspiracy-theory
> >>bull****. *It's tiresome, old and at it's very base, circular
> >>reasoning.
>
> >Circular? *Any time anyone tries to draw a straight line, you scream
> >"Slippery Slope! Tinfoil hat!"
>
> <sarcasm> Matthew, there is no cause and effect in the real world.

It really helps when people don't confuse the two, like you seem to...

On Mar 14, 2:21*pm, proffsl > wrote:
> On Mar 13, 5:26*pm, Ed Pirrero > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mar 13, 3:57*pm, (Brent P) wrote:
> > > In article >, Ed Pirrero wrote:
> > > >On Mar 13, 3:29*pm, (Brent P)
> > > >wrote:
> > > >> In article >, Ed Pirrero wrote:
> > > >> >On Mar 13, 9:56*am, (Brent P)
> > > >> >wrote:
> > > >> >> In article >, Ed Pirrero wrote:
> > > >> >> >On Mar 12, 8:47*pm, (Matthew T. Russotto)
> > > >> >> >wrote:
> > > >> >> >> In article >,
> > > >> >> >> Ed Pirrero > wrote:
>
> > > >> >> >> >On Mar 12, 2:30=A0pm, (Matthew T. Russotto)
> > > >> >> >> >wrote:
> > > >> >> >> >> In article .=
> > > >> >> >> >com>,
> > > >> >> >> >> Ed Pirrero > wrote:
>
> > > >> >> >> >> >On Mar 7, 5:21=3DA0am, (Brent P) wrote=
> > > >> >> >> >:
> > > >> >> >> >> >> =A0Licensing, like the TSA is about the power of government,
> > > >> >> >> >> >> not our safety.
>
> > > >> >> >> >> >Graduated licensing for teenagers is not about power, but directly
> > > >> >> >> >> >about safety.
>
> > > >> >> >> >> Graduated licensing for teenagers is about money. =A0Specifically, money
> > > >> >> >> >> for insurance companies. =A0
>
> > > >> >> >> >I'm sure you'll be able to cite all sorts of independent proof for
> > > >> >> >> >that claim.
>
> > > >> >> >> Pearls before, well, you know.
>
> > > >> >> >I DAGS, and found ZERO connection between the insurance lobby and any
> > > >> >> >of the graduated licensing laws I looked at.
>
> > > >> >> >Without evidence of money changing hands, then it's hard to call it
> > > >> >> >about money. *Impossible, in fact.
>
> > > >> >> The principle he used apparently holds for RLCs...
>
> > > >> >We already knew that RLCs were about money. *Because we have folks
> > > >> >admitting as much on-the-record.
>
> > > >> >But without such a thing for graduated licensing, it's merely
> > > >> >speculation.
>
> > > >> If it were, it is following the trend.
>
> > > >What, the trend toward tin-foil haberdashery?
>
> > > *sigh*
>
> > > Speed cameras
> > > red light cameras
> > > congestion fees
> > > roads being converted to toll roads.
> > > reducing lanes on non-toll roads
> > > abuser fees
> > > removing parking places
> > > confusing and conflicting parking restrictions
> > > car siezures on accusation of street racing or something else.
>
> > Other than the fact that they are related to cars, and involve
> > regulation, how are these things at all related?
>
> > Yes, yes - a vast, secret conspiracy to make Brent move to Montana
> > with his guns and live off-grid until the Apocalypse arrives. *Aaack -
> > my hat - the foil is ripped! *I'm getting the signals now!
>
> Pirrero, in all truthfulness...

See, now that's where you go off the rails.

I'm not sure you know what "truthfulness" is. You certainly don't
have the "logic" thing down, that's for sure.

When you make up case law to try and "prove" your point, you shouldn't
be surprised when folks literally LOL at your stupid assertions.

E.P.

On Mar 14, 3:58*pm, Ed Pirrero > wrote:
> On Mar 14, 2:21*pm, proffsl > wrote:
> > On Mar 13, 5:26*pm, Ed Pirrero > wrote:
> > > On Mar 13, 3:57*pm, (Brent P) wrote:
>
> > > > *sigh*
>
> > > > Speed cameras
> > > > red light cameras
> > > > congestion fees
> > > > roads being converted to toll roads.
> > > > reducing lanes on non-toll roads
> > > > abuser fees
> > > > removing parking places
> > > > confusing and conflicting parking restrictions
> > > > car siezures on accusation of street racing or something else.
>
> > > Other than the fact that they are related to cars, and involve
> > > regulation, how are these things at all related?
>
> > > Yes, yes - a vast, secret conspiracy to make Brent move to Montana
> > > with his guns and live off-grid until the Apocalypse arrives. *Aaack -
> > > my hat - the foil is ripped! *I'm getting the signals now!
>
> > Pirrero, in all truthfulness, your attempts to slap this conspiracy
> > loon label and tin-foil hat on Brent is in reality your own version of
> > a tin-foil hat designed to protect you from the truth. Keep it glued
> > tighty to your head, less the truth leaks in one day, Pirrero.
>
> See, now that's where you go off the rails.
>
> I'm not sure you know what "truthfulness" is. *You certainly don't
> have the "logic" thing down, that's for sure.
>
> When you make up case law

Talk about blowing your veil of truthfulness, you are LYING right
here. I didn't make up a damn thing, regardless how much you'd like
to project me as doing so. Once, and only once, I provided one, and
only one, link to a page that contained faulty information, and as
soon as I was informed and shown that the information was faulty, I
acknowledged it was faulty information. This happened some 2 or 3
years ago, yet still it's ALL you have to try and blow completely out
of porportion. Blow it our your ass.

We have the Right to use our Public Highways for Personal Travel in
the Ordinary Way. The oridinary way we use our public highways for
personal travel these days is by Driving the Automobile. Driving is
not a privilege. We have the Right to drive safely. Driver Licensing
serves no purpose for highway safety that laws against reckless
endangerment didn't already serve.

On Mar 14, 11:39 pm, proffsl > wrote:
> On Mar 14, 3:58 pm, Ed Pirrero > wrote:
> > On Mar 14, 2:21 > wrote:
> > > On Mar 13, 5:26 pm, Ed Pirrero > wrote:
> > > > On Mar 13, 3:57 pm, (Brent P) wrote:
>
> > > > > *sigh*
>
> > > > > Speed cameras
> > > > > red light cameras
> > > > > congestion fees
> > > > > roads being converted to toll roads.
> > > > > reducing lanes on non-toll roads
> > > > > abuser fees
> > > > > removing parking places
> > > > > confusing and conflicting parking restrictions
> > > > > car siezures on accusation of street racing or something else.
>
> > > > Other than the fact that they are related to cars, and involve
> > > > regulation, how are these things at all related?
>
> > > > Yes, yes - a vast, secret conspiracy to make Brent move to Montana
> > > > with his guns and live off-grid until the Apocalypse arrives. Aaack -
> > > > my hat - the foil is ripped! I'm getting the signals now!
>
> > > Pirrero, in all truthfulness, your attempts to slap this conspiracy
> > > loon label and tin-foil hat on Brent is in reality your own version of
> > > a tin-foil hat designed to protect you from the truth. Keep it glued
> > > tighty to your head, less the truth leaks in one day, Pirrero.
>
> > See, now that's where you go off the rails.
>
> > I'm not sure you know what "truthfulness" is. You certainly don't
> > have the "logic" thing down, that's for sure.
>
> > When you make up case law
>
> Talk about blowing your veil of truthfulness, you are LYING right
> here. I didn't make up a damn thing, regardless how much you'd like
> to project me as doing so.

That's a flat out lie. You presented an entirely fabricated court
case.

> Once, and only once, I provided one, and
> only one, link to a page that contained faulty information, and as
> soon as I was informed and shown that the information was faulty, I
> acknowledged it was faulty information. This happened some 2 or 3
> years ago, yet still it's ALL you have to try and blow completely out
> of porportion. Blow it our your ass.

It happened last year.

The plain fact is that your entire argument is invalid in that it is
based on your extracting unrelated dicta from court cases most of
which have absolutely nothing to do with licensing or registration or
driving; then you attempt to cobble them together and make an argument
tha none of those cases ever had under consideration. Cases only rule
on the questions before hem. It is completely invalid to pull an out
of context quote from the dicta of a court case and pretend it means
something else.

That is where you have completely failed.

> We have the Right to use our Public Highways for Personal Travel in
> the Ordinary Way.

Only with a license, as we proved amply to you.

>The oridinary way we use our public highways for
> personal travel these days is by Driving the Automobile.

With a license. It is not legal to do so without a license so it
cannot be the ordinary way to do it without a license.

> Driving is
> not a privilege. We have the Right to drive safely. Driver Licensing
> serves no purpose for highway safety that laws against reckless
> endangerment didn't already serve.

Irrelevant. It is not dispositive to show that it could be done a
different way; that's immaterial to whether it's constitutional and
legal to do it the way we are doing it.

On Mar 15, 12:41*pm, " > wrote:
> On Mar 14, 11:39 pm, proffsl > wrote:
> > On Mar 14, 3:58 pm, Ed Pirrero > wrote:
> > > On Mar 14, 2:21 > wrote:
> > > > On Mar 13, 5:26 pm, Ed Pirrero > wrote:
> > > > > On Mar 13, 3:57 pm, (Brent P) wrote:
>
> > > > > > *sigh*
>
> > > > > > Speed cameras
> > > > > > red light cameras
> > > > > > congestion fees
> > > > > > roads being converted to toll roads.
> > > > > > reducing lanes on non-toll roads
> > > > > > abuser fees
> > > > > > removing parking places
> > > > > > confusing and conflicting parking restrictions
> > > > > > car siezures on accusation of street racing or something else.
>
> > > > > Other than the fact that they are related to cars, and involve
> > > > > regulation, how are these things at all related?
>
> > > > > Yes, yes - a vast, secret conspiracy to make Brent move to Montana
> > > > > with his guns and live off-grid until the Apocalypse arrives. *Aaack -
> > > > > my hat - the foil is ripped! *I'm getting the signals now!
>
> > > > Pirrero, in all truthfulness, your attempts to slap this conspiracy
> > > > loon label and tin-foil hat on Brent is in reality your own version of
> > > > a tin-foil hat designed to protect you from the truth. *Keep it glued
> > > > tighty to your head, less the truth leaks in one day, Pirrero.
>
> > > See, now that's where you go off the rails.
>
> > > I'm not sure you know what "truthfulness" is. *You certainly don't
> > > have the "logic" thing down, that's for sure.
>
> > > When you make up case law
>
> > Talk about blowing your veil of truthfulness, you are LYING right
> > here. *I didn't make up a damn thing, regardless how much you'd like
> > to project me as doing so. Once, and only once, I provided one, and
> > only one, link to a page that contained faulty information, and as
> > soon as I was informed and shown that the information was faulty, I
> > acknowledged it was faulty information.
>
> That's a flat out lie. You presented a link to a fabricated court case.

Interesting tactics this k_flynn resorts to. First, he says I "flat
out lie", then he turns around and supports what I said.

On Mar 14, 10:39 pm, proffsl > wrote:
> On Mar 14, 3:58 pm, Ed Pirrero > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Mar 14, 2:21 pm, proffsl > wrote:
> > > On Mar 13, 5:26 pm, Ed Pirrero > wrote:
> > > > On Mar 13, 3:57 pm, (Brent P) wrote:
>
> > > > > *sigh*
>
> > > > > Speed cameras
> > > > > red light cameras
> > > > > congestion fees
> > > > > roads being converted to toll roads.
> > > > > reducing lanes on non-toll roads
> > > > > abuser fees
> > > > > removing parking places
> > > > > confusing and conflicting parking restrictions
> > > > > car siezures on accusation of street racing or something else.
>
> > > > Other than the fact that they are related to cars, and involve
> > > > regulation, how are these things at all related?
>
> > > > Yes, yes - a vast, secret conspiracy to make Brent move to Montana
> > > > with his guns and live off-grid until the Apocalypse arrives. Aaack -
> > > > my hat - the foil is ripped! I'm getting the signals now!
>
> > > Pirrero, in all truthfulness, your attempts to slap this conspiracy
> > > loon label and tin-foil hat on Brent is in reality your own version of
> > > a tin-foil hat designed to protect you from the truth. Keep it glued
> > > tighty to your head, less the truth leaks in one day, Pirrero.
>
> > See, now that's where you go off the rails.
>
> > I'm not sure you know what "truthfulness" is. You certainly don't
> > have the "logic" thing down, that's for sure.
>
> > When you make up case law
>
> Talk about blowing your veil of truthfulness, you are LYING right
> here. I didn't make up a damn thing, regardless how much you'd like
> to project me as doing so.

Well, I have a saved search on some case law you quoted, the one
k_flynn talks about.

Funny thing - it's completely fabricated.

Heh.

E.P.

On Mar 16, 12:23*am, proffsl > wrote:
> On Mar 15, 12:41*pm, " > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mar 14, 11:39 pm, proffsl > wrote:
> > > On Mar 14, 3:58 pm, Ed Pirrero > wrote:
> > > > On Mar 14, 2:21 > wrote:
> > > > > On Mar 13, 5:26 pm, Ed Pirrero > wrote:
> > > > > > On Mar 13, 3:57 pm, (Brent P) wrote:
>
> > > > > > > *sigh*
>
> > > > > > > Speed cameras
> > > > > > > red light cameras
> > > > > > > congestion fees
> > > > > > > roads being converted to toll roads.
> > > > > > > reducing lanes on non-toll roads
> > > > > > > abuser fees
> > > > > > > removing parking places
> > > > > > > confusing and conflicting parking restrictions
> > > > > > > car siezures on accusation of street racing or something else.
>
> > > > > > Other than the fact that they are related to cars, and involve
> > > > > > regulation, how are these things at all related?
>
> > > > > > Yes, yes - a vast, secret conspiracy to make Brent move to Montana
> > > > > > with his guns and live off-grid until the Apocalypse arrives. *Aaack -
> > > > > > my hat - the foil is ripped! *I'm getting the signals now!
>
> > > > > Pirrero, in all truthfulness, your attempts to slap this conspiracy
> > > > > loon label and tin-foil hat on Brent is in reality your own version of
> > > > > a tin-foil hat designed to protect you from the truth. *Keep it glued
> > > > > tighty to your head, less the truth leaks in one day, Pirrero.
>
> > > > See, now that's where you go off the rails.
>
> > > > I'm not sure you know what "truthfulness" is. *You certainly don't
> > > > have the "logic" thing down, that's for sure.
>
> > > > When you make up case law
>
> > > Talk about blowing your veil of truthfulness, you are LYING right
> > > here. *I didn't make up a damn thing, regardless how much you'd like
> > > to project me as doing so. Once, and only once, I provided one, and
> > > only one, link to a page that contained faulty information, and as
> > > soon as I was informed and shown that the information was faulty, I
> > > acknowledged it was faulty information.
>
> > That's a flat out lie. You presented a link to a fabricated court case.
>
> Interesting tactics this k_flynn resorts to.

Yes, it's very interesting, proffsl, It's something we call "truth."
You ought to try it out some time.

>*First, he says I "flat
> out lie",

Which you did.

> then he turns around and supports what I said.

I did not "support" what you said. I agreed with your confession that
you lied. Not the same thing!

On Mar 16, 6:32 pm, " > wrote:
> On Mar 16, 12:23 am, proffsl > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Mar 15, 12:41 pm, " > wrote:
>
> > > On Mar 14, 11:39 pm, proffsl > wrote:
> > > > On Mar 14, 3:58 pm, Ed Pirrero > wrote:
> > > > > On Mar 14, 2:21 > wrote:
> > > > > > On Mar 13, 5:26 pm, Ed Pirrero > wrote:
> > > > > > > On Mar 13, 3:57 pm, (Brent P) wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > *sigh*
>
> > > > > > > > Speed cameras
> > > > > > > > red light cameras
> > > > > > > > congestion fees
> > > > > > > > roads being converted to toll roads.
> > > > > > > > reducing lanes on non-toll roads
> > > > > > > > abuser fees
> > > > > > > > removing parking places
> > > > > > > > confusing and conflicting parking restrictions
> > > > > > > > car siezures on accusation of street racing or something else.
>
> > > > > > > Other than the fact that they are related to cars, and involve
> > > > > > > regulation, how are these things at all related?
>
> > > > > > > Yes, yes - a vast, secret conspiracy to make Brent move to Montana
> > > > > > > with his guns and live off-grid until the Apocalypse arrives. Aaack -
> > > > > > > my hat - the foil is ripped! I'm getting the signals now!
>
> > > > > > Pirrero, in all truthfulness, your attempts to slap this conspiracy
> > > > > > loon label and tin-foil hat on Brent is in reality your own version of
> > > > > > a tin-foil hat designed to protect you from the truth. Keep it glued
> > > > > > tighty to your head, less the truth leaks in one day, Pirrero.
>
> > > > > See, now that's where you go off the rails.
>
> > > > > I'm not sure you know what "truthfulness" is. You certainly don't
> > > > > have the "logic" thing down, that's for sure.
>
> > > > > When you make up case law
>
> > > > Talk about blowing your veil of truthfulness, you are LYING right
> > > > here. I didn't make up a damn thing, regardless how much you'd like
> > > > to project me as doing so. Once, and only once, I provided one, and
> > > > only one, link to a page that contained faulty information, and as
> > > > soon as I was informed and shown that the information was faulty, I
> > > > acknowledged it was faulty information.
>
> > > That's a flat out lie. You presented a link to a fabricated court case.
>
> > Interesting tactics this k_flynn resorts to.
>
> Yes, it's very interesting, proffsl, It's something we call "truth."
> You ought to try it out some time.
>
> > First, he says I "flat
> > out lie",
>
> Which you did.
>
> > then he turns around and supports what I said.
>
> I did not "support" what you said. I agreed with your confession that
> you lied. Not the same thing!

I think a link to the post in which he gave the made-up cite, and the
actual case law to which he pretends to refer might shut his dumb ass
up.

E.P.

On Mar 13, 6:19 pm, (Brent P)
wrote:
> In article >, Nate Nagel wrote:
> >Brent P wrote:
> >>Ed wrote:
> >>>Yes, yes - a vast, secret conspiracy to make Brent move to Montana
> >>>with his guns and live off-grid until the Apocalypse arrives. Aaack -
> >>>my hat - the foil is ripped! I'm getting the signals now!
>
> >> Bogglesome. Can't even have a decent discussion with you.
> >Actually, tell me more about this moving to Montana and living off-grid
> >thing. Newsletter, subscribe, etc.
> >You can bet that if I ever become independently wealthy I'm probably
> >going to do something very similar to the above...
>
>
>
> I don't really have much of a clue about it. I've been in 'the city'
> most of my life although I have picked up a fair amount from friends who
> grew up elsewhere.

If you haven't lived outside the city, or even an urbanized area, then
you have no clue. Seriously.

Growing up on a farm teaches you a lot of things.

It teaches you a bunch about economics and commodities. It teaches
you a ton about tax law and property law. It teaches you how to get
along with your neighbor, even if you don't want to.

What's more, rural folks seem so much more relaxed and genuine than
city folks. And, when it comes to self-governing, rural folks seem to
know that their neighbors know everything about them, so they'd better
do the job on the straight-and-narrow. If you've never experienced
any sort of gov. outside of Cook Co., then you have absolutely no clue
about how most of America runs itself. Yeah, so back-scratching goes
on - but not like in your neck of the woods. Cook Co. is synonymous
with crooked politics. Not everywhere is like that.

I can see easily how you and Matthew might view all gov. as crooked.
Philly ain't any group of saints. But that doesn't imply that
EVERYWHERE is like that. Or even resembles that. Your myopia affects
your judgment - obviously. Quick, get out of IL. Go somewhere else.
Anywhere else. You'll see that what I say is true.

E.P.