I'm back and it's still sitting in my garage...

<clare at snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 11:51:16 -0600, "biggus" > wrote:
>
>>If it ran well friday and would not start Saturday, that would tend to
>>rule
>>out the Fuel side of things.
>>
>>Also the MAF, TFI are OK, and probably your injectors are all getting
>>pulsed
>>
>>It would indicate you have a loose wire or grounded wire.
>>
>>If a few injectors were fouled it would run rough, and you have to pull
>>the
>>top manifold to get to them, read the codes first.
>>
>>try the electrical route some more, replace the rotor, cap, and coil.
>>Check
>>the wiring around the coil, and check the battery voltage
>>
>>Check all vacuume hoses for cracks leaks or fallen off,
>>there is a vacuume canaster passenger side front low in engine bay that
>>has
>>a rubber elbow that expands and gets too loose on 93 and before causes
>>vaccume leak
>>
>>If battery is below 11.2 you may have battery/altinator problem.
>>
>>
>>5.0 is very fixable, hang in there.
>>
>>
> 99.9% chance it is a fuel problem, not ignition, from what he has
> cheched. Also better than 90% chance it is an injection related
> problem, not delivery.
> My impression is it is an injector control problem. Possibly a bad ECU
> ground, Possibly a power feed problem to the injectors.
>
> FIRST thing to check is "do you have 12 volts to the injectors"
> Pull an injector wiring plug and make sure you have 12 volts on at
> least one side. If you don't, track it down and find out why. You may
> have 12 volts on both sides. (likely will have) When you crank the
> engine over, one side should "flash" as the control side is pulled to
> ground to fire the injector. If it does not pull down check continuity
> from the injector harness to the ECU, and ECU ground. If both are OK,
> you've got a bad ECU or possibly a sensor connecton problem, but I
> can't think of one that would totally kill injection and still provide
> spark - but I'm not a Ford expert.
>
> I'd be looking first at fuses and relays and fusible links if there is
> no 12 volts to the injectors.
>>
>>"Joe Colella" > wrote in message
>>news:tsf6j.2264$rB1.1734@trnddc03...
>>> So, I have taken most of your advice and I am still stationary...
>>> The
>>> situation is my 93 GT ran well Friday night, but Saturday morning it
>>> would
>>> not start and this is what I have done... Any and all advice,
>>> suggestions and prayers will be greatly appreciated!!!
>>>
>>> Am I getting a spark... Yes, at the two plugs I checked and when I
>>> sprayed a lot of starter fluid into the open throttle body it ran at a
>>> high
>>> idle for about 2 seconds.
>>>
>>> Am I getting fuel... Not sure, but fuel pressure is 40 PSI (within
>>> specification) at the Schrader valve.
>>>
>>> Do I have bad gas... No. I siphoned about a gallon of gas into a big
>>> old
>>> glass jar and did not see any beads of water at the bottom of the jar.
>>>
>>> Pushing the peddle to the floor... Didn't help: I tried pushing the
>>> peddle to the floor while cranking the engine and it had no effect.
>>>
>>> Do I have a bad fuel filter... Changed it.
>>>
>>> Do I have a bad fuel pump... When I tried to extract some fault
>>> codes
>>> from the ECM by following the directions from www.fordfuelinjection.com,
>>> my
>>> Check Engine light lit dimly, I heard the fuel pump start, I did not
>>> hear
>>> any electronic clicks and after 1.5 minutes, the fuel pump was still
>>> running. (I checked my STI-to-negative terminal connection and tried it
>>> again with the exact same results???
>>>
>>> Do I have a bad TFI module... Not the problem; I removed the TFI
>>> module
>>> and confirmed all of the resistances are within specification.
>>>
>>> Checking TFI module for ground and signal... How?
>>>
>>> Do I have a bad MAF; unplugging the MAF... Didn't help: I unplugged
>>> the
>>> MAF and tried starting the car normally and with a lot of starter fluid
>>> down
>>> the throttle body. In both cases the car behaved just like it did when
>>> the
>>> MAF was plugged in.
>>>
>>> Do I have a bad MAF; swapping the MAF... I have not tried swapping
>>> MAF's.
>>>
>>> Extracting fault codes... When I tried to extract some fault codes
>>> from
>>> the ECM by following the directions from www.fordfuelinjection.com, my
>>> Check
>>> Engine light lit dimly, I heard the fuel pump start, I did not hear any
>>> electronic clicks and after 1.5 minutes, the fuel pump was still
>>> running.
>>> (I
>>> checked my STI-to-negative terminal connection and tried it again with
>>> the
>>> exact same results???
>>>
>>> Do I have bad fuel injectors... I have been told to pull a couple to
>>> see
>>> if they have fouled nozzle tips. This seems easy enough!
>>>
>>> The "NOID" test... I assume the two questions "Are the fuel
>>> injectors
>>> being pulsed?" and "Are the fuel injectors being triggered?" are asking
>>> the
>>> same thing. I have been told to put a set of "NOID" lights in place of
>>> the
>>> injectors on the wiring harness and make sure they flash. Do I have to
>>> check all eight fuel injectors?
>>>
>>> Do I have a bad fuel pressure regulator... I have done nothing with
>>> respect to the fuel pressure regulator.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
>


Cla FIRST thing to check is "do you have 12 volts to the injectors"
------------------
Joe: I have 12 volts between one side of the injector connector and battery
positive.
============
Cla You may have 12 volts on both sides. If so, when you crank the engine
over, one side should "flash" as the control side is pulled to ground to
fire the injector. If it does not pull down check continuity from the
injector harness to the ECU, and ECU ground. If both are OK, you've got a
bad ECU or possibly a sensor connecton problem, but I can't think of one
that would totally kill injection and still provide spark.
------------------
Joe: Since I only have it on one side, can I skip the rest of your
instructions above?
============
Cla I'd be looking first at fuses and relays and fusible links if there
is no 12 volts to the injectors.

------------------
Joe: Since I have 12 volts between one side of the injector connector and
battery positive, can I assume fuses, relays and fusible links are all OK?

From the bundle wires from the ECU is a heavy black wire with an uncoated
silver strand of wires attached to the chassis.

I disconnected it, sanded the chassis and the connector and reconnected
it...

NO CHANGE!

I am now gonna look for the ECU fuse.

Joe



<clare at snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 9 Dec 2007 15:34:20 -0800 (PST), Joe > wrote:
>
>>On Dec 7, 2:31 pm, clare at snyder.on.ca wrote:
>>> On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 11:51:16 -0600, "biggus" > wrote:
>>> >If it ran well friday and would not start Saturday, that would tend to
>>> >rule
>>> >out the Fuel side of things.
>>>
>>> >Also the MAF, TFI are OK, and probably your injectors are all getting
>>> >pulsed
>>>
>>> >It would indicate you have a loose wire or grounded wire.
>>>
>>> >If a few injectors were fouled it would run rough, and you have to pull
>>> >the
>>> >top manifold to get to them, read the codes first.
>>>
>>> >try the electrical route some more, replace the rotor, cap, and coil.
>>> >Check
>>> >the wiring around the coil, and check the battery voltage
>>>
>>> >Check all vacuume hoses for cracks leaks or fallen off,
>>> >there is a vacuume canaster passenger side front low in engine bay that
>>> >has
>>> >a rubber elbow that expands and gets too loose on 93 and before causes
>>> >vaccume leak
>>>
>>> >If battery is below 11.2 you may have battery/altinator problem.
>>>
>>> >5.0 is very fixable, hang in there.
>>>
>>> 99.9% chance it is a fuel problem, not ignition, from what he has
>>> cheched. Also better than 90% chance it is an injection related
>>> problem, not delivery.
>>> My impression is it is an injector control problem. Possibly a bad ECU
>>> ground, Possibly a power feed problem to the injectors.
>>>
>>> FIRST thing to check is "do you have 12 volts to the injectors"
>>> Pull an injector wiring plug and make sure you have 12 volts on at
>>> least one side. If you don't, track it down and find out why. You may
>>> have 12 volts on both sides. (likely will have) When you crank the
>>> engine over, one side should "flash" as the control side is pulled to
>>> ground to fire the injector. If it does not pull down check continuity
>>> from the injector harness to the ECU, and ECU ground. If both are OK,
>>> you've got a bad ECU or possibly a sensor connecton problem, but I
>>> can't think of one that would totally kill injection and still provide
>>> spark - but I'm not a Ford expert.
>>>
>>> I'd be looking first at fuses and relays and fusible links if there is
>>> no 12 volts to the injectors.
>>>
>>> >"Joe Colella" > wrote in message
>>> >news:tsf6j.2264$rB1.1734@trnddc03...
>>> >> So, I have taken most of your advice and I am still stationary...
>>> >> The
>>> >> situation is my 93 GT ran well Friday night, but Saturday morning it
>>> >> would
>>> >> not start and this is what I have done... Any and all advice,
>>> >> suggestions and prayers will be greatly appreciated!!!
>>>
>>> >> Am I getting a spark... Yes, at the two plugs I checked and when
>>> >> I
>>> >> sprayed a lot of starter fluid into the open throttle body it ran at
>>> >> a
>>> >> high
>>> >> idle for about 2 seconds.
>>>
>>> >> Am I getting fuel... Not sure, but fuel pressure is 40 PSI
>>> >> (within
>>> >> specification) at the Schrader valve.
>>>
>>> >> Do I have bad gas... No. I siphoned about a gallon of gas into a
>>> >> big
>>> >> old
>>> >> glass jar and did not see any beads of water at the bottom of the
>>> >> jar.
>>>
>>> >> Pushing the peddle to the floor... Didn't help: I tried pushing
>>> >> the
>>> >> peddle to the floor while cranking the engine and it had no effect.
>>>
>>> >> Do I have a bad fuel filter... Changed it.
>>>
>>> >> Do I have a bad fuel pump... When I tried to extract some fault
>>> >> codes
>>> >> from the ECM by following the directions
>>> >> fromwww.fordfuelinjection.com,
>>> >> my
>>> >> Check Engine light lit dimly, I heard the fuel pump start, I did not
>>> >> hear
>>> >> any electronic clicks and after 1.5 minutes, the fuel pump was still
>>> >> running. (I checked my STI-to-negative terminal connection and tried
>>> >> it
>>> >> again with the exact same results???
>>>
>>> >> Do I have a bad TFI module... Not the problem; I removed the TFI
>>> >> module
>>> >> and confirmed all of the resistances are within specification.
>>>
>>> >> Checking TFI module for ground and signal... How?
>>>
>>> >> Do I have a bad MAF; unplugging the MAF... Didn't help: I
>>> >> unplugged
>>> >> the
>>> >> MAF and tried starting the car normally and with a lot of starter
>>> >> fluid
>>> >> down
>>> >> the throttle body. In both cases the car behaved just like it did
>>> >> when the
>>> >> MAF was plugged in.
>>>
>>> >> Do I have a bad MAF; swapping the MAF... I have not tried
>>> >> swapping
>>> >> MAF's.
>>>
>>> >> Extracting fault codes... When I tried to extract some fault
>>> >> codes
>>> >> from
>>> >> the ECM by following the directions fromwww.fordfuelinjection.com, my
>>> >> Check
>>> >> Engine light lit dimly, I heard the fuel pump start, I did not hear
>>> >> any
>>> >> electronic clicks and after 1.5 minutes, the fuel pump was still
>>> >> running.
>>> >> (I
>>> >> checked my STI-to-negative terminal connection and tried it again
>>> >> with the
>>> >> exact same results???
>>>
>>> >> Do I have bad fuel injectors... I have been told to pull a couple
>>> >> to
>>> >> see
>>> >> if they have fouled nozzle tips. This seems easy enough!
>>>
>>> >> The "NOID" test... I assume the two questions "Are the fuel
>>> >> injectors
>>> >> being pulsed?" and "Are the fuel injectors being triggered?" are
>>> >> asking
>>> >> the
>>> >> same thing. I have been told to put a set of "NOID" lights in place
>>> >> of
>>> >> the
>>> >> injectors on the wiring harness and make sure they flash. Do I have
>>> >> to
>>> >> check all eight fuel injectors?
>>>
>>> >> Do I have a bad fuel pressure regulator... I have done nothing
>>> >> with
>>> >> respect to the fuel pressure regulator.
>>>
>>
>>
>>Clare,
>>
>>You are right on target...
>>
>>I tested one injector connector with a noid light and did not get a
>>flash.
>>
>>I also checked the voltage and had 12V on one side and 0V on the
>>other.
>>
>>Next on my list of things to do is (i) test the coil, and (2) check
>>the ECU (>>> a.k.a. ECM, right? <<<) for proper ground connection.
>>
>>How would I check for a power feed problem to the injectors?
>
> You have checked that. Now concentrate on the ground. LIKELY a fairly
> heavy black wire from the ECU plug which will ground to the body with
> a screw. A wiring diagram would really help to find out which wire
> needs to be grounded, then just back-prod it with a known good ground
> and see if it starts. The manual/schematic would also tell you exactly
> where it is supposed to be grounded.
>>
>>Should I still crank the engine to see if one side "flashes" as the
>>control side is pulled to ground to fire the injector or has the noid
>>test already predicted the outcome?
>
> The noid has told you it won't flash. Only other possibility is all
> injectors burned out, which is not impossible, but EXTREMELY unlikely.
>>
>>I have not been able to find any method for testing the ECU. Any
>>suggestions?
>>
>>> I'd be looking first at fuses and relays and fusible links if there is
>>> no 12 volts to the injectors.
>>
>>Fuses... Which fuses specifically?
>>
>>Relays... Just the Fuel Pump Relay? Would the WOT Cut-off Relay come
>>into play? Any other relays affect injector operation?
>
> Yiu have eliminated the relays and fuses, with the POSSIBLE exception
> of the ECU fuse. The ECU can't trigger the injector ground if it is
> not getting power. Your owners manual should identify the ECU fues
> (possibly called EFI)
>
>>
>>Fusible Links... Just D or any others?
>>
>>Thanks!
>>
>>Joe
>
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
>

Where would I find Fuse Link G; i.e., the ECU fuse???


<clare at snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 9 Dec 2007 15:34:20 -0800 (PST), Joe > wrote:
>
>>On Dec 7, 2:31 pm, clare at snyder.on.ca wrote:
>>> On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 11:51:16 -0600, "biggus" > wrote:
>>> >If it ran well friday and would not start Saturday, that would tend to
>>> >rule
>>> >out the Fuel side of things.
>>>
>>> >Also the MAF, TFI are OK, and probably your injectors are all getting
>>> >pulsed
>>>
>>> >It would indicate you have a loose wire or grounded wire.
>>>
>>> >If a few injectors were fouled it would run rough, and you have to pull
>>> >the
>>> >top manifold to get to them, read the codes first.
>>>
>>> >try the electrical route some more, replace the rotor, cap, and coil.
>>> >Check

>>> >the wiring around the coil, and check the battery voltage
>>>
>>> >Check all vacuume hoses for cracks leaks or fallen off,
>>> >there is a vacuume canaster passenger side front low in engine bay that
>>> >has
>>> >a rubber elbow that expands and gets too loose on 93 and before causes
>>> >vaccume leak
>>>
>>> >If battery is below 11.2 you may have battery/altinator problem.
>>>
>>> >5.0 is very fixable, hang in there.
>>>
>>> 99.9% chance it is a fuel problem, not ignition, from what he has
>>> cheched. Also better than 90% chance it is an injection related
>>> problem, not delivery.
>>> My impression is it is an injector control problem. Possibly a bad ECU
>>> ground, Possibly a power feed problem to the injectors.
>>>
>>> FIRST thing to check is "do you have 12 volts to the injectors"
>>> Pull an injector wiring plug and make sure you have 12 volts on at
>>> least one side. If you don't, track it down and find out why. You may
>>> have 12 volts on both sides. (likely will have) When you crank the
>>> engine over, one side should "flash" as the control side is pulled to
>>> ground to fire the injector. If it does not pull down check continuity
>>> from the injector harness to the ECU, and ECU ground. If both are OK,
>>> you've got a bad ECU or possibly a sensor connecton problem, but I
>>> can't think of one that would totally kill injection and still provide
>>> spark - but I'm not a Ford expert.
>>>
>>> I'd be looking first at fuses and relays and fusible links if there is
>>> no 12 volts to the injectors.
>>>
>>> >"Joe Colella" > wrote in message
>>> >news:tsf6j.2264$rB1.1734@trnddc03...
>>> >> So, I have taken most of your advice and I am still stationary...
>>> >> The
>>> >> situation is my 93 GT ran well Friday night, but Saturday morning it
>>> >> would
>>> >> not start and this is what I have done... Any and all advice,
>>> >> suggestions and prayers will be greatly appreciated!!!
>>>
>>> >> Am I getting a spark... Yes, at the two plugs I checked and when
>>> >> I
>>> >> sprayed a lot of starter fluid into the open throttle body it ran at
>>> >> a
>>> >> high
>>> >> idle for about 2 seconds.
>>>
>>> >> Am I getting fuel... Not sure, but fuel pressure is 40 PSI
>>> >> (within
>>> >> specification) at the Schrader valve.
>>>
>>> >> Do I have bad gas... No. I siphoned about a gallon of gas into a
>>> >> big
>>> >> old
>>> >> glass jar and did not see any beads of water at the bottom of the
>>> >> jar.
>>>
>>> >> Pushing the peddle to the floor... Didn't help: I tried pushing
>>> >> the
>>> >> peddle to the floor while cranking the engine and it had no effect.
>>>
>>> >> Do I have a bad fuel filter... Changed it.
>>>
>>> >> Do I have a bad fuel pump... When I tried to extract some fault
>>> >> codes
>>> >> from the ECM by following the directions
>>> >> fromwww.fordfuelinjection.com,
>>> >> my
>>> >> Check Engine light lit dimly, I heard the fuel pump start, I did not
>>> >> hear
>>> >> any electronic clicks and after 1.5 minutes, the fuel pump was still
>>> >> running. (I checked my STI-to-negative terminal connection and tried
>>> >> it
>>> >> again with the exact same results???
>>>
>>> >> Do I have a bad TFI module... Not the problem; I removed the TFI
>>> >> module
>>> >> and confirmed all of the resistances are within specification.
>>>
>>> >> Checking TFI module for ground and signal... How?
>>>
>>> >> Do I have a bad MAF; unplugging the MAF... Didn't help: I
>>> >> unplugged
>>> >> the
>>> >> MAF and tried starting the car normally and with a lot of starter
>>> >> fluid
>>> >> down
>>> >> the throttle body. In both cases the car behaved just like it did
>>> >> when the
>>> >> MAF was plugged in.
>>>
>>> >> Do I have a bad MAF; swapping the MAF... I have not tried
>>> >> swapping
>>> >> MAF's.
>>>
>>> >> Extracting fault codes... When I tried to extract some fault
>>> >> codes
>>> >> from
>>> >> the ECM by following the directions fromwww.fordfuelinjection.com, my
>>> >> Check
>>> >> Engine light lit dimly, I heard the fuel pump start, I did not hear
>>> >> any
>>> >> electronic clicks and after 1.5 minutes, the fuel pump was still
>>> >> running.
>>> >> (I
>>> >> checked my STI-to-negative terminal connection and tried it again
>>> >> with the
>>> >> exact same results???
>>>
>>> >> Do I have bad fuel injectors... I have been told to pull a couple
>>> >> to
>>> >> see
>>> >> if they have fouled nozzle tips. This seems easy enough!
>>>
>>> >> The "NOID" test... I assume the two questions "Are the fuel
>>> >> injectors
>>> >> being pulsed?" and "Are the fuel injectors being triggered?" are
>>> >> asking
>>> >> the
>>> >> same thing. I have been told to put a set of "NOID" lights in place
>>> >> of
>>> >> the
>>> >> injectors on the wiring harness and make sure they flash. Do I have
>>> >> to
>>> >> check all eight fuel injectors?
>>>
>>> >> Do I have a bad fuel pressure regulator... I have done nothing
>>> >> with
>>> >> respect to the fuel pressure regulator.
>>>
>>
>>
>>Clare,
>>
>>You are right on target...
>>
>>I tested one injector connector with a noid light and did not get a
>>flash.
>>
>>I also checked the voltage and had 12V on one side and 0V on the
>>other.
>>
>>Next on my list of things to do is (i) test the coil, and (2) check
>>the ECU (>>> a.k.a. ECM, right? <<<) for proper ground connection.
>>
>>How would I check for a power feed problem to the injectors?
>
> You have checked that. Now concentrate on the ground. LIKELY a fairly
> heavy black wire from the ECU plug which will ground to the body with
> a screw. A wiring diagram would really help to find out which wire
> needs to be grounded, then just back-prod it with a known good ground
> and see if it starts. The manual/schematic would also tell you exactly
> where it is supposed to be grounded.
>>
>>Should I still crank the engine to see if one side "flashes" as the
>>control side is pulled to ground to fire the injector or has the noid
>>test already predicted the outcome?
>
> The noid has told you it won't flash. Only other possibility is all
> injectors burned out, which is not impossible, but EXTREMELY unlikely.
>>
>>I have not been able to find any method for testing the ECU. Any
>>suggestions?
>>
>>> I'd be looking first at fuses and relays and fusible links if there is
>>> no 12 volts to the injectors.
>>
>>Fuses... Which fuses specifically?
>>
>>Relays... Just the Fuel Pump Relay? Would the WOT Cut-off Relay come
>>into play? Any other relays affect injector operation?
>
> Yiu have eliminated the relays and fuses, with the POSSIBLE exception
> of the ECU fuse. The ECU can't trigger the injector ground if it is
> not getting power. Your owners manual should identify the ECU fues
> (possibly called EFI)
>
>>
>>Fusible Links... Just D or any others?
>>
>>Thanks!
>>
>>Joe
>
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
>

On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 21:16:50 GMT, "Joe Colella" > wrote:

>Where would I find Fuse Link G; i.e., the ECU fuse???
>
I don't have a manual for your car available, but normally in the
fuse-box/junction box in the engine compartment, where the relays
live.
Could also be in a panel in the kick-panel, or the main fuse box.

On my Mystique there is an engine control fuse. It is a 7.5 amp fuse
in the main panel. The pcm keep-alive is in the box by the battery (3
amp) and there is a 20 amp pcm power fuse also in that box.
Also a PCM power relay in that box.

Would REALLY help to have a pinout diagram for the ECU.
Check for power at thethrottle sensor switch. SHould have 5 volts on
one wire with it disconnected and the key on.. If so, CPU is getting
power. (at least on the "brain" side. If not, check fuses, but could
also still be the ECU.
>
><clare at snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
.. .
>> On Sun, 9 Dec 2007 15:34:20 -0800 (PST), Joe > wrote:
>>
>>>On Dec 7, 2:31 pm, clare at snyder.on.ca wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 11:51:16 -0600, "biggus" > wrote:
>>>> >If it ran well friday and would not start Saturday, that would tend to
>>>> >rule
>>>> >out the Fuel side of things.
>>>>
>>>> >Also the MAF, TFI are OK, and probably your injectors are all getting
>>>> >pulsed
>>>>
>>>> >It would indicate you have a loose wire or grounded wire.
>>>>
>>>> >If a few injectors were fouled it would run rough, and you have to pull
>>>> >the
>>>> >top manifold to get to them, read the codes first.
>>>>
>>>> >try the electrical route some more, replace the rotor, cap, and coil.
>>>> >Check
>
>>>> >the wiring around the coil, and check the battery voltage
>>>>
>>>> >Check all vacuume hoses for cracks leaks or fallen off,
>>>> >there is a vacuume canaster passenger side front low in engine bay that
>>>> >has
>>>> >a rubber elbow that expands and gets too loose on 93 and before causes
>>>> >vaccume leak
>>>>
>>>> >If battery is below 11.2 you may have battery/altinator problem.
>>>>
>>>> >5.0 is very fixable, hang in there.
>>>>
>>>> 99.9% chance it is a fuel problem, not ignition, from what he has
>>>> cheched. Also better than 90% chance it is an injection related
>>>> problem, not delivery.
>>>> My impression is it is an injector control problem. Possibly a bad ECU
>>>> ground, Possibly a power feed problem to the injectors.
>>>>
>>>> FIRST thing to check is "do you have 12 volts to the injectors"
>>>> Pull an injector wiring plug and make sure you have 12 volts on at
>>>> least one side. If you don't, track it down and find out why. You may
>>>> have 12 volts on both sides. (likely will have) When you crank the
>>>> engine over, one side should "flash" as the control side is pulled to
>>>> ground to fire the injector. If it does not pull down check continuity
>>>> from the injector harness to the ECU, and ECU ground. If both are OK,
>>>> you've got a bad ECU or possibly a sensor connecton problem, but I
>>>> can't think of one that would totally kill injection and still provide
>>>> spark - but I'm not a Ford expert.
>>>>
>>>> I'd be looking first at fuses and relays and fusible links if there is
>>>> no 12 volts to the injectors.
>>>>
>>>> >"Joe Colella" > wrote in message
>>>> >news:tsf6j.2264$rB1.1734@trnddc03...
>>>> >> So, I have taken most of your advice and I am still stationary...
>>>> >> The
>>>> >> situation is my 93 GT ran well Friday night, but Saturday morning it
>>>> >> would
>>>> >> not start and this is what I have done... Any and all advice,
>>>> >> suggestions and prayers will be greatly appreciated!!!
>>>>
>>>> >> Am I getting a spark... Yes, at the two plugs I checked and when
>>>> >> I
>>>> >> sprayed a lot of starter fluid into the open throttle body it ran at
>>>> >> a
>>>> >> high
>>>> >> idle for about 2 seconds.
>>>>
>>>> >> Am I getting fuel... Not sure, but fuel pressure is 40 PSI
>>>> >> (within
>>>> >> specification) at the Schrader valve.
>>>>
>>>> >> Do I have bad gas... No. I siphoned about a gallon of gas into a
>>>> >> big
>>>> >> old
>>>> >> glass jar and did not see any beads of water at the bottom of the
>>>> >> jar.
>>>>
>>>> >> Pushing the peddle to the floor... Didn't help: I tried pushing
>>>> >> the
>>>> >> peddle to the floor while cranking the engine and it had no effect.
>>>>
>>>> >> Do I have a bad fuel filter... Changed it.
>>>>
>>>> >> Do I have a bad fuel pump... When I tried to extract some fault
>>>> >> codes
>>>> >> from the ECM by following the directions
>>>> >> fromwww.fordfuelinjection.com,
>>>> >> my
>>>> >> Check Engine light lit dimly, I heard the fuel pump start, I did not
>>>> >> hear
>>>> >> any electronic clicks and after 1.5 minutes, the fuel pump was still
>>>> >> running. (I checked my STI-to-negative terminal connection and tried
>>>> >> it
>>>> >> again with the exact same results???
>>>>
>>>> >> Do I have a bad TFI module... Not the problem; I removed the TFI
>>>> >> module
>>>> >> and confirmed all of the resistances are within specification.
>>>>
>>>> >> Checking TFI module for ground and signal... How?
>>>>
>>>> >> Do I have a bad MAF; unplugging the MAF... Didn't help: I
>>>> >> unplugged
>>>> >> the
>>>> >> MAF and tried starting the car normally and with a lot of starter
>>>> >> fluid
>>>> >> down
>>>> >> the throttle body. In both cases the car behaved just like it did
>>>> >> when the
>>>> >> MAF was plugged in.
>>>>
>>>> >> Do I have a bad MAF; swapping the MAF... I have not tried
>>>> >> swapping
>>>> >> MAF's.
>>>>
>>>> >> Extracting fault codes... When I tried to extract some fault
>>>> >> codes
>>>> >> from
>>>> >> the ECM by following the directions fromwww.fordfuelinjection.com, my
>>>> >> Check
>>>> >> Engine light lit dimly, I heard the fuel pump start, I did not hear
>>>> >> any
>>>> >> electronic clicks and after 1.5 minutes, the fuel pump was still
>>>> >> running.
>>>> >> (I
>>>> >> checked my STI-to-negative terminal connection and tried it again
>>>> >> with the
>>>> >> exact same results???
>>>>
>>>> >> Do I have bad fuel injectors... I have been told to pull a couple
>>>> >> to
>>>> >> see
>>>> >> if they have fouled nozzle tips. This seems easy enough!
>>>>
>>>> >> The "NOID" test... I assume the two questions "Are the fuel
>>>> >> injectors
>>>> >> being pulsed?" and "Are the fuel injectors being triggered?" are
>>>> >> asking
>>>> >> the
>>>> >> same thing. I have been told to put a set of "NOID" lights in place
>>>> >> of
>>>> >> the
>>>> >> injectors on the wiring harness and make sure they flash. Do I have
>>>> >> to
>>>> >> check all eight fuel injectors?
>>>>
>>>> >> Do I have a bad fuel pressure regulator... I have done nothing
>>>> >> with
>>>> >> respect to the fuel pressure regulator.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Clare,
>>>
>>>You are right on target...
>>>
>>>I tested one injector connector with a noid light and did not get a
>>>flash.
>>>
>>>I also checked the voltage and had 12V on one side and 0V on the
>>>other.
>>>
>>>Next on my list of things to do is (i) test the coil, and (2) check
>>>the ECU (>>> a.k.a. ECM, right? <<<) for proper ground connection.
>>>
>>>How would I check for a power feed problem to the injectors?
>>
>> You have checked that. Now concentrate on the ground. LIKELY a fairly
>> heavy black wire from the ECU plug which will ground to the body with
>> a screw. A wiring diagram would really help to find out which wire
>> needs to be grounded, then just back-prod it with a known good ground
>> and see if it starts. The manual/schematic would also tell you exactly
>> where it is supposed to be grounded.
>>>
>>>Should I still crank the engine to see if one side "flashes" as the
>>>control side is pulled to ground to fire the injector or has the noid
>>>test already predicted the outcome?
>>
>> The noid has told you it won't flash. Only other possibility is all
>> injectors burned out, which is not impossible, but EXTREMELY unlikely.
>>>
>>>I have not been able to find any method for testing the ECU. Any
>>>suggestions?
>>>
>>>> I'd be looking first at fuses and relays and fusible links if there is
>>>> no 12 volts to the injectors.
>>>
>>>Fuses... Which fuses specifically?
>>>
>>>Relays... Just the Fuel Pump Relay? Would the WOT Cut-off Relay come
>>>into play? Any other relays affect injector operation?
>>
>> Yiu have eliminated the relays and fuses, with the POSSIBLE exception
>> of the ECU fuse. The ECU can't trigger the injector ground if it is
>> not getting power. Your owners manual should identify the ECU fues
>> (possibly called EFI)
>>
>>>
>>>Fusible Links... Just D or any others?
>>>
>>>Thanks!
>>>
>>>Joe
>>
>>
>> --
>> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
>>
>


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

I have disconnected sanded and reconnected G104 and G201; could not find
G109.

Still no noid flash...

The PCM relay sits on top of the PCM and I actually have gotten the
pinpoints out and that's on the agenda for tomorrow.




<clare at snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 21:16:50 GMT, "Joe Colella" > wrote:
>
>>Where would I find Fuse Link G; i.e., the ECU fuse???
>>
> I don't have a manual for your car available, but normally in the
> fuse-box/junction box in the engine compartment, where the relays
> live.
> Could also be in a panel in the kick-panel, or the main fuse box.
>
> On my Mystique there is an engine control fuse. It is a 7.5 amp fuse
> in the main panel. The pcm keep-alive is in the box by the battery (3
> amp) and there is a 20 amp pcm power fuse also in that box.
> Also a PCM power relay in that box.
>
> Would REALLY help to have a pinout diagram for the ECU.
> Check for power at thethrottle sensor switch. SHould have 5 volts on
> one wire with it disconnected and the key on.. If so, CPU is getting
> power. (at least on the "brain" side. If not, check fuses, but could
> also still be the ECU.
>>
>><clare at snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Sun, 9 Dec 2007 15:34:20 -0800 (PST), Joe > wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Dec 7, 2:31 pm, clare at snyder.on.ca wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 11:51:16 -0600, "biggus" > wrote:
>>>>> >If it ran well friday and would not start Saturday, that would tend
>>>>> >to
>>>>> >rule
>>>>> >out the Fuel side of things.
>>>>>
>>>>> >Also the MAF, TFI are OK, and probably your injectors are all getting
>>>>> >pulsed
>>>>>
>>>>> >It would indicate you have a loose wire or grounded wire.
>>>>>
>>>>> >If a few injectors were fouled it would run rough, and you have to
>>>>> >pull
>>>>> >the
>>>>> >top manifold to get to them, read the codes first.
>>>>>
>>>>> >try the electrical route some more, replace the rotor, cap, and coil.
>>>>> >Check
>>
>>>>> >the wiring around the coil, and check the battery voltage
>>>>>
>>>>> >Check all vacuume hoses for cracks leaks or fallen off,
>>>>> >there is a vacuume canaster passenger side front low in engine bay
>>>>> >that
>>>>> >has
>>>>> >a rubber elbow that expands and gets too loose on 93 and before
>>>>> >causes
>>>>> >vaccume leak
>>>>>
>>>>> >If battery is below 11.2 you may have battery/altinator problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> >5.0 is very fixable, hang in there.
>>>>>
>>>>> 99.9% chance it is a fuel problem, not ignition, from what he has
>>>>> cheched. Also better than 90% chance it is an injection related
>>>>> problem, not delivery.
>>>>> My impression is it is an injector control problem. Possibly a bad ECU
>>>>> ground, Possibly a power feed problem to the injectors.
>>>>>
>>>>> FIRST thing to check is "do you have 12 volts to the injectors"
>>>>> Pull an injector wiring plug and make sure you have 12 volts on at
>>>>> least one side. If you don't, track it down and find out why. You may
>>>>> have 12 volts on both sides. (likely will have) When you crank the
>>>>> engine over, one side should "flash" as the control side is pulled to
>>>>> ground to fire the injector. If it does not pull down check continuity
>>>>> from the injector harness to the ECU, and ECU ground. If both are OK,
>>>>> you've got a bad ECU or possibly a sensor connecton problem, but I
>>>>> can't think of one that would totally kill injection and still provide
>>>>> spark - but I'm not a Ford expert.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd be looking first at fuses and relays and fusible links if there is
>>>>> no 12 volts to the injectors.
>>>>>
>>>>> >"Joe Colella" > wrote in message
>>>>> >news:tsf6j.2264$rB1.1734@trnddc03...
>>>>> >> So, I have taken most of your advice and I am still stationary...
>>>>> >> The
>>>>> >> situation is my 93 GT ran well Friday night, but Saturday morning
>>>>> >> it
>>>>> >> would
>>>>> >> not start and this is what I have done... Any and all advice,
>>>>> >> suggestions and prayers will be greatly appreciated!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> >> Am I getting a spark... Yes, at the two plugs I checked and
>>>>> >> when
>>>>> >> I
>>>>> >> sprayed a lot of starter fluid into the open throttle body it ran
>>>>> >> at
>>>>> >> a
>>>>> >> high
>>>>> >> idle for about 2 seconds.
>>>>>
>>>>> >> Am I getting fuel... Not sure, but fuel pressure is 40 PSI
>>>>> >> (within
>>>>> >> specification) at the Schrader valve.
>>>>>
>>>>> >> Do I have bad gas... No. I siphoned about a gallon of gas into
>>>>> >> a
>>>>> >> big
>>>>> >> old
>>>>> >> glass jar and did not see any beads of water at the bottom of the
>>>>> >> jar.
>>>>>
>>>>> >> Pushing the peddle to the floor... Didn't help: I tried
>>>>> >> pushing
>>>>> >> the
>>>>> >> peddle to the floor while cranking the engine and it had no effect.
>>>>>
>>>>> >> Do I have a bad fuel filter... Changed it.
>>>>>
>>>>> >> Do I have a bad fuel pump... When I tried to extract some fault
>>>>> >> codes
>>>>> >> from the ECM by following the directions
>>>>> >> fromwww.fordfuelinjection.com,
>>>>> >> my
>>>>> >> Check Engine light lit dimly, I heard the fuel pump start, I did
>>>>> >> not
>>>>> >> hear
>>>>> >> any electronic clicks and after 1.5 minutes, the fuel pump was
>>>>> >> still
>>>>> >> running. (I checked my STI-to-negative terminal connection and
>>>>> >> tried
>>>>> >> it
>>>>> >> again with the exact same results???
>>>>>
>>>>> >> Do I have a bad TFI module... Not the problem; I removed the
>>>>> >> TFI
>>>>> >> module
>>>>> >> and confirmed all of the resistances are within specification.
>>>>>
>>>>> >> Checking TFI module for ground and signal... How?
>>>>>
>>>>> >> Do I have a bad MAF; unplugging the MAF... Didn't help: I
>>>>> >> unplugged
>>>>> >> the
>>>>> >> MAF and tried starting the car normally and with a lot of starter
>>>>> >> fluid
>>>>> >> down
>>>>> >> the throttle body. In both cases the car behaved just like it did
>>>>> >> when the
>>>>> >> MAF was plugged in.
>>>>>
>>>>> >> Do I have a bad MAF; swapping the MAF... I have not tried
>>>>> >> swapping
>>>>> >> MAF's.
>>>>>
>>>>> >> Extracting fault codes... When I tried to extract some fault
>>>>> >> codes
>>>>> >> from
>>>>> >> the ECM by following the directions fromwww.fordfuelinjection.com,
>>>>> >> my
>>>>> >> Check
>>>>> >> Engine light lit dimly, I heard the fuel pump start, I did not hear
>>>>> >> any
>>>>> >> electronic clicks and after 1.5 minutes, the fuel pump was still
>>>>> >> running.
>>>>> >> (I
>>>>> >> checked my STI-to-negative terminal connection and tried it again
>>>>> >> with the
>>>>> >> exact same results???
>>>>>
>>>>> >> Do I have bad fuel injectors... I have been told to pull a
>>>>> >> couple
>>>>> >> to
>>>>> >> see
>>>>> >> if they have fouled nozzle tips. This seems easy enough!
>>>>>
>>>>> >> The "NOID" test... I assume the two questions "Are the fuel
>>>>> >> injectors
>>>>> >> being pulsed?" and "Are the fuel injectors being triggered?" are
>>>>> >> asking
>>>>> >> the
>>>>> >> same thing. I have been told to put a set of "NOID" lights in
>>>>> >> place
>>>>> >> of
>>>>> >> the
>>>>> >> injectors on the wiring harness and make sure they flash. Do I
>>>>> >> have
>>>>> >> to
>>>>> >> check all eight fuel injectors?
>>>>>
>>>>> >> Do I have a bad fuel pressure regulator... I have done nothing
>>>>> >> with
>>>>> >> respect to the fuel pressure regulator.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Clare,
>>>>
>>>>You are right on target...
>>>>
>>>>I tested one injector connector with a noid light and did not get a
>>>>flash.
>>>>
>>>>I also checked the voltage and had 12V on one side and 0V on the
>>>>other.
>>>>
>>>>Next on my list of things to do is (i) test the coil, and (2) check
>>>>the ECU (>>> a.k.a. ECM, right? <<<) for proper ground connection.
>>>>
>>>>How would I check for a power feed problem to the injectors?
>>>
>>> You have checked that. Now concentrate on the ground. LIKELY a fairly
>>> heavy black wire from the ECU plug which will ground to the body with
>>> a screw. A wiring diagram would really help to find out which wire
>>> needs to be grounded, then just back-prod it with a known good ground
>>> and see if it starts. The manual/schematic would also tell you exactly
>>> where it is supposed to be grounded.
>>>>
>>>>Should I still crank the engine to see if one side "flashes" as the
>>>>control side is pulled to ground to fire the injector or has the noid
>>>>test already predicted the outcome?
>>>
>>> The noid has told you it won't flash. Only other possibility is all
>>> injectors burned out, which is not impossible, but EXTREMELY unlikely.
>>>>
>>>>I have not been able to find any method for testing the ECU. Any
>>>>suggestions?
>>>>
>>>>> I'd be looking first at fuses and relays and fusible links if there is
>>>>> no 12 volts to the injectors.
>>>>
>>>>Fuses... Which fuses specifically?
>>>>
>>>>Relays... Just the Fuel Pump Relay? Would the WOT Cut-off Relay come
>>>>into play? Any other relays affect injector operation?
>>>
>>> Yiu have eliminated the relays and fuses, with the POSSIBLE exception
>>> of the ECU fuse. The ECU can't trigger the injector ground if it is
>>> not getting power. Your owners manual should identify the ECU fues
>>> (possibly called EFI)
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Fusible Links... Just D or any others?
>>>>
>>>>Thanks!
>>>>
>>>>Joe
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
>

some of those things are in the harness itself,
some times ford put things in different places on the 5.0's too.
Good luck and let us know what you find out.
If you have a good set of drawings, they will show you the components, but
not where they are, one manual I have on 5.0 has all the electrical drawings
in the back.
Some Shops have the big set, shows much more.



"Joe Colella" > wrote in message
news:S_n9j.7329$c82.2204@trnddc01...
>I have disconnected sanded and reconnected G104 and G201; could not find
>G109.
>
> Still no noid flash...
>
> The PCM relay sits on top of the PCM and I actually have gotten the
> pinpoints out and that's on the agenda for tomorrow.
>
>
>
>
> <clare at snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
> ...
>> On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 21:16:50 GMT, "Joe Colella" > wrote:
>>
>>>Where would I find Fuse Link G; i.e., the ECU fuse???
>>>
>> I don't have a manual for your car available, but normally in the
>> fuse-box/junction box in the engine compartment, where the relays
>> live.
>> Could also be in a panel in the kick-panel, or the main fuse box.
>>
>> On my Mystique there is an engine control fuse. It is a 7.5 amp fuse
>> in the main panel. The pcm keep-alive is in the box by the battery (3
>> amp) and there is a 20 amp pcm power fuse also in that box.
>> Also a PCM power relay in that box.
>>
>> Would REALLY help to have a pinout diagram for the ECU.
>> Check for power at thethrottle sensor switch. SHould have 5 volts on
>> one wire with it disconnected and the key on.. If so, CPU is getting
>> power. (at least on the "brain" side. If not, check fuses, but could
>> also still be the ECU.
>>>
>>><clare at snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
...
>>>> On Sun, 9 Dec 2007 15:34:20 -0800 (PST), Joe > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Dec 7, 2:31 pm, clare at snyder.on.ca wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 11:51:16 -0600, "biggus" > wrote:
>>>>>> >If it ran well friday and would not start Saturday, that would tend
>>>>>> >to
>>>>>> >rule
>>>>>> >out the Fuel side of things.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >Also the MAF, TFI are OK, and probably your injectors are all
>>>>>> >getting
>>>>>> >pulsed
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >It would indicate you have a loose wire or grounded wire.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >If a few injectors were fouled it would run rough, and you have to
>>>>>> >pull
>>>>>> >the
>>>>>> >top manifold to get to them, read the codes first.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >try the electrical route some more, replace the rotor, cap, and
>>>>>> >coil.
>>>>>> >Check
>>>
>>>>>> >the wiring around the coil, and check the battery voltage
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >Check all vacuume hoses for cracks leaks or fallen off,
>>>>>> >there is a vacuume canaster passenger side front low in engine bay
>>>>>> >that
>>>>>> >has
>>>>>> >a rubber elbow that expands and gets too loose on 93 and before
>>>>>> >causes
>>>>>> >vaccume leak
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >If battery is below 11.2 you may have battery/altinator problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >5.0 is very fixable, hang in there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 99.9% chance it is a fuel problem, not ignition, from what he has
>>>>>> cheched. Also better than 90% chance it is an injection related
>>>>>> problem, not delivery.
>>>>>> My impression is it is an injector control problem. Possibly a bad
>>>>>> ECU
>>>>>> ground, Possibly a power feed problem to the injectors.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> FIRST thing to check is "do you have 12 volts to the injectors"
>>>>>> Pull an injector wiring plug and make sure you have 12 volts on at
>>>>>> least one side. If you don't, track it down and find out why. You may
>>>>>> have 12 volts on both sides. (likely will have) When you crank the
>>>>>> engine over, one side should "flash" as the control side is pulled to
>>>>>> ground to fire the injector. If it does not pull down check
>>>>>> continuity
>>>>>> from the injector harness to the ECU, and ECU ground. If both are OK,
>>>>>> you've got a bad ECU or possibly a sensor connecton problem, but I
>>>>>> can't think of one that would totally kill injection and still
>>>>>> provide
>>>>>> spark - but I'm not a Ford expert.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd be looking first at fuses and relays and fusible links if there
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> no 12 volts to the injectors.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >"Joe Colella" > wrote in message
>>>>>> >news:tsf6j.2264$rB1.1734@trnddc03...
>>>>>> >> So, I have taken most of your advice and I am still stationary...
>>>>>> >> The
>>>>>> >> situation is my 93 GT ran well Friday night, but Saturday morning
>>>>>> >> it
>>>>>> >> would
>>>>>> >> not start and this is what I have done... Any and all advice,
>>>>>> >> suggestions and prayers will be greatly appreciated!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> Am I getting a spark... Yes, at the two plugs I checked and
>>>>>> >> when
>>>>>> >> I
>>>>>> >> sprayed a lot of starter fluid into the open throttle body it ran
>>>>>> >> at
>>>>>> >> a
>>>>>> >> high
>>>>>> >> idle for about 2 seconds.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> Am I getting fuel... Not sure, but fuel pressure is 40 PSI
>>>>>> >> (within
>>>>>> >> specification) at the Schrader valve.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> Do I have bad gas... No. I siphoned about a gallon of gas into
>>>>>> >> a
>>>>>> >> big
>>>>>> >> old
>>>>>> >> glass jar and did not see any beads of water at the bottom of the
>>>>>> >> jar.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> Pushing the peddle to the floor... Didn't help: I tried
>>>>>> >> pushing
>>>>>> >> the
>>>>>> >> peddle to the floor while cranking the engine and it had no
>>>>>> >> effect.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> Do I have a bad fuel filter... Changed it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> Do I have a bad fuel pump... When I tried to extract some
>>>>>> >> fault
>>>>>> >> codes
>>>>>> >> from the ECM by following the directions
>>>>>> >> fromwww.fordfuelinjection.com,
>>>>>> >> my
>>>>>> >> Check Engine light lit dimly, I heard the fuel pump start, I did
>>>>>> >> not
>>>>>> >> hear
>>>>>> >> any electronic clicks and after 1.5 minutes, the fuel pump was
>>>>>> >> still
>>>>>> >> running. (I checked my STI-to-negative terminal connection and
>>>>>> >> tried
>>>>>> >> it
>>>>>> >> again with the exact same results???
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> Do I have a bad TFI module... Not the problem; I removed the
>>>>>> >> TFI
>>>>>> >> module
>>>>>> >> and confirmed all of the resistances are within specification.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> Checking TFI module for ground and signal... How?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> Do I have a bad MAF; unplugging the MAF... Didn't help: I
>>>>>> >> unplugged
>>>>>> >> the
>>>>>> >> MAF and tried starting the car normally and with a lot of starter
>>>>>> >> fluid
>>>>>> >> down
>>>>>> >> the throttle body. In both cases the car behaved just like it did
>>>>>> >> when the
>>>>>> >> MAF was plugged in.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> Do I have a bad MAF; swapping the MAF... I have not tried
>>>>>> >> swapping
>>>>>> >> MAF's.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> Extracting fault codes... When I tried to extract some fault
>>>>>> >> codes
>>>>>> >> from
>>>>>> >> the ECM by following the directions fromwww.fordfuelinjection.com,
>>>>>> >> my
>>>>>> >> Check
>>>>>> >> Engine light lit dimly, I heard the fuel pump start, I did not
>>>>>> >> hear
>>>>>> >> any
>>>>>> >> electronic clicks and after 1.5 minutes, the fuel pump was still
>>>>>> >> running.
>>>>>> >> (I
>>>>>> >> checked my STI-to-negative terminal connection and tried it again
>>>>>> >> with the
>>>>>> >> exact same results???
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> Do I have bad fuel injectors... I have been told to pull a
>>>>>> >> couple
>>>>>> >> to
>>>>>> >> see
>>>>>> >> if they have fouled nozzle tips. This seems easy enough!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> The "NOID" test... I assume the two questions "Are the fuel
>>>>>> >> injectors
>>>>>> >> being pulsed?" and "Are the fuel injectors being triggered?" are
>>>>>> >> asking
>>>>>> >> the
>>>>>> >> same thing. I have been told to put a set of "NOID" lights in
>>>>>> >> place
>>>>>> >> of
>>>>>> >> the
>>>>>> >> injectors on the wiring harness and make sure they flash. Do I
>>>>>> >> have
>>>>>> >> to
>>>>>> >> check all eight fuel injectors?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> Do I have a bad fuel pressure regulator... I have done nothing
>>>>>> >> with
>>>>>> >> respect to the fuel pressure regulator.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Clare,
>>>>>
>>>>>You are right on target...
>>>>>
>>>>>I tested one injector connector with a noid light and did not get a
>>>>>flash.
>>>>>
>>>>>I also checked the voltage and had 12V on one side and 0V on the
>>>>>other.
>>>>>
>>>>>Next on my list of things to do is (i) test the coil, and (2) check
>>>>>the ECU (>>> a.k.a. ECM, right? <<<) for proper ground connection.
>>>>>
>>>>>How would I check for a power feed problem to the injectors?
>>>>
>>>> You have checked that. Now concentrate on the ground. LIKELY a fairly
>>>> heavy black wire from the ECU plug which will ground to the body with
>>>> a screw. A wiring diagram would really help to find out which wire
>>>> needs to be grounded, then just back-prod it with a known good ground
>>>> and see if it starts. The manual/schematic would also tell you exactly
>>>> where it is supposed to be grounded.
>>>>>
>>>>>Should I still crank the engine to see if one side "flashes" as the
>>>>>control side is pulled to ground to fire the injector or has the noid
>>>>>test already predicted the outcome?
>>>>
>>>> The noid has told you it won't flash. Only other possibility is all
>>>> injectors burned out, which is not impossible, but EXTREMELY unlikely.
>>>>>
>>>>>I have not been able to find any method for testing the ECU. Any
>>>>>suggestions?
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd be looking first at fuses and relays and fusible links if there
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> no 12 volts to the injectors.
>>>>>
>>>>>Fuses... Which fuses specifically?
>>>>>
>>>>>Relays... Just the Fuel Pump Relay? Would the WOT Cut-off Relay come
>>>>>into play? Any other relays affect injector operation?
>>>>
>>>> Yiu have eliminated the relays and fuses, with the POSSIBLE exception
>>>> of the ECU fuse. The ECU can't trigger the injector ground if it is
>>>> not getting power. Your owners manual should identify the ECU fues
>>>> (possibly called EFI)
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Fusible Links... Just D or any others?
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>>Joe
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
>>
>
>

Possible you could also have a dying hall-effect sensor inside the
distributor......
"Joe Colella" > wrote in message
news:O8e9j.64819$rZ3.37546@trnddc07...
>
> <clare at snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
> ...
> > On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 10:53:09 -0500, Michael Johnson >
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>As cars get more complicated through the use of electronics it is harder
> >>to diagnose problems. While the Fox Mustang has a lot of old school
> >>design employed it does have a certain level of electronic control that
> >>makes diagnosis of some repairs very difficult without more
> >>sophisticated equipment or in depth knowledge of the car's systems. My
> >>comments were only meant to give you good advice based on my own
> >>personal experienced of owning a Fox Mustang continuously since 1987 and
> >>from heavily modifying it over the years.
> >
> > Still have not heard if he has 12 volts to the injectors.
> > Without that, he doesn't stand a chance.
> > He can check that with a standard 12 volt test light to ground.
> >
> > The other test light check is to put the test light from batt pos to
> > the "ground" side of the injectors and crank the engine. If the light
> > flashes the ECU is triggering the injectors. If he has no 12 volts and
> > has a trigger, it will be a connection, fuse, or relay. If he has no
> > 12 volts AND no trigger it will be one of those common to both the
> > injector circuit and the PCM.
> > If he has no 12 volts and has a trigger it will be one specific to the
> > injector power only.
> >
> > --
> > Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
> >
>
> Clare,
>
> Since I have 12 volts between one side of the injector connection and
> battery positive, can I assume the steps outlined above are now
irrelevant?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Joe
>
>

On Fri, 07 Dec 2007 17:32:09 GMT, "Joe Colella" > wrote:

>So, I have taken most of your advice and I am still stationary... The
>situation is my 93 GT ran well Friday night, but Saturday morning it would
>not start and this is what I have done... Any and all advice,
>suggestions and prayers will be greatly appreciated!!!
>






Well, First of all, Happy New Year to EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Second, ???

Did you get your pony out of the garage? If so, what was the
malfunction?

On Jan 1, 5:47*am, wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Dec 2007 17:32:09 GMT, "Joe Colella" > wrote:
> >So, I have taken most of your advice and I am still stationary... * * The
> >situation is my 93 GT ran well Friday night, but Saturday morning it would
> >not start and this is what I have done... * * *Any and all advice,
> >suggestions and prayers will be greatly appreciated!!!
>
> Well, *First of all, Happy New Year to EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Second, ???
>
> Did you get your pony out of the garage? *If so, what was the
> malfunction?


No, I am still working on it.

When performing QA1, QA2 and QA3, and all the other pinpoint tests,
can I simply disconnect my PCM and test on the connector or do I need
a breakout box in order for the tests to be run properly?

Thanks!

Joe

On Dec 24 2007, 10:26*am, "scott and barb" .> wrote:
> Possible you could also have a dying hall-effect sensor inside the
> distributor......"Joe Colella" > wrote in message
>
> news:O8e9j.64819$rZ3.37546@trnddc07...
>
>
>
>
>
> > <clare at snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
> .. .
> > > On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 10:53:09 -0500, Michael Johnson >
> > > wrote:
>
> > >>As cars get more complicated through the use of electronics it is harder
> > >>to diagnose problems. *While the Fox Mustang has a lot of old school
> > >>design employed it does have a certain level of electronic control that
> > >>makes diagnosis of some repairs very difficult without more
> > >>sophisticated equipment or in depth knowledge of the car's systems. *My
> > >>comments were only meant to give you good advice based on my own
> > >>personal experienced of owning a Fox Mustang continuously since 1987 and
> > >>from heavily modifying it over the years.
>
> > > Still have not heard if he has 12 volts to the injectors.
> > > Without that, he doesn't stand a chance.
> > > He can check that with a standard 12 volt test light to ground.
>
> > > The other test light check is to put the test light from batt pos to
> > > the "ground" side of the injectors and crank the engine. If the light
> > > flashes the ECU is triggering the injectors. If he has no 12 volts and
> > > has a trigger, it will be a connection, fuse, or relay. If he has no
> > > 12 volts AND no trigger it will be one of those common to both the
> > > injector circuit and the PCM.
> > > If he has no 12 volts and has a trigger it will be one specific to the
> > > injector power only.
>
> > > --
> > > Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com
>
> > Clare,
>
> > Since I have 12 volts between one side of the injector connection and
> > battery positive, can I assume the steps outlined above are now
> irrelevant?
>
> > Thanks!
>
> > Joe- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -




No, I am still working on it.

When performing QA1, QA2 and QA3, and all the other pinpoint tests,
can I simply disconnect my PCM and test on the connector or do I need
a breakout box in order for the tests to be run properly?


Thanks!


Joe