DAWN, clean to a fault.

On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 12:16:25 -0500, "Dad" > wrote:

>Since I may have been guilty of starting this silly subject by stating that I
>use Dawn to wash my car here is some of what is said about Dawn soap on
>http://www.dawn-dish.com/
>


FWIW, here is what I found listed for the Dawn ingredients:

Water , Sodium Lauryl Sulfate , Sodium Pareth-23 Sulfate , C12-14-16
Dimethyl Oxide , SD Alcohol 40-B , Undeceth-9 , Sodium Cumenesulfonate
, PPG26 , Sodium Chloride , Cyclohexanediamine , Polyacetate ,
Fragrance , FD&C Yellow #5 , D&C Red No. 33

Dad wrote:

>
> "Preston" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Dad wrote:
> >
> > > You're saying the salt content is higher in the soap than it is in
> > > the water you're using? What percent in each? Where does it show
> > > up the most on your Corvette? How do you discern the difference
> > > between acid rain and salt in your soap/water/air? Do you live on
> > > the coast in the UK?
> >
> > If I had time to research answers to all those questions I would,
> > but I haven't - all spare time's allocated to restoring that
> > rusting lump in the garage!
>
> Since you stated it had a salt content I just assumed you had the
> answers, or were you just guessing?

Partly guessing as the Dawn website doesn't list the ingredients. It
does however link to another site with 'typical contents', one of which
is salt, & I thought it was common knowledge these things contain salt.
The contents posted by 'No Vette Yet' list four different types of
sodium, two of which are 2nd & 3rd in the list (after water). As these
things are usually listed in order of quantity, it seems a fairly safe
bet that it's pretty salty.

> What is the lump that is rusting
> in the garage? That shouldn't use much of your time to answer.

My '81 'vette that's been sat in a field for the last few years.

> The is
> a web site that tells the 10 best uses for Dawn and one of those,
> #10, is for rust prvention, go figure.

I can't figure that - it makes no sense whatsoever. But if it's on the
web it must be true...

> What has been affected on your Corvette?

Everything - but that's due to it sitting outside in Wales for several
years.

> > The last one's easy though - no (unfortunately). Have you
> > /seen/ the price of houses on the coast here...
>
> Yes, last August. Why, have you one to sell?

Eh? I just said I don't live on the coast.

> > My point though is that dish-washing liquids do generally have a
> > very high salt content, so I personally choose not to use them when
> > there are salt-free alternatives.
>
> What is the high content?

'Some'. If 'No Vette Yet's' list of contents is in order (which would
seem to be the case given water's first & colouring last), the 2nd &
3rd highest constituents of Dawn are sodium, with two different types
further down the list. So sodium is the 2nd highest constituent after
water.

> > Some people even use normal detergent as a lubricant when changing
> > tyres on alloy wheels - then wonder why their rims start to flake
> > apart. Plain water & acid rain don't cause that.
>
> Standard practice around here and it's also used to prevent galling
> of stainless steel threads.
>
> Here is some more baseless fears that are passed around the internet
> - http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/dawn.asp

As you say "more" baseless fears, I presume you think mine are
baseless? That may be true, but it does contain salt - fact (most
detergents use it as the surfactant). And salt does increase corrosion
in steel & aluminium - fact.

I don't know why you're getting so defensive, especially as I haven't
slated you for using it - just said that I choose not to, & stated why.


--
Preston.

"Preston" > wrote in message
...
Snip
>
> As you say "more" baseless fears, I presume you think mine are
> baseless? That may be true, but it does contain salt - fact (most
> detergents use it as the surfactant). And salt does increase corrosion
> in steel & aluminium - fact.
>
> I don't know why you're getting so defensive, especially as I haven't
> slated you for using it - just said that I choose not to, & stated why.
>
> --
> Preston.

What is NaCl? Is there any in the Dawn soap, I don't think so. Salts are often
grouped according to the negative ion they contain, e.g., bicarbonate or
carbonate, chlorate, chloride, cyanide, fulminate, nitrate, phosphate, silicate,
sulfate, or sulfide. Which one of those are in Dawn and are they corrosive? You
can pay attention to novetyet but it wouldn't hurt to check what it actually
does have in it and its actual affect on materials. Call it defensive if you
wish but I try to deal in reality and not an old wives tale and/or hearsay.

Did any of that damage to your 81 Corvette happen because of the salt in soap?
Doubtful if it had anything to do with the white growth in the crevices of the
example you gave either, more like trapped moisture.

'Dawn as well as all other dishwashing detergents, removes the wax on a
car ' !! -- Sal Zaino of Zaino Polish Inc.

Dont use Dawn. Use proper car wash and wax.

"Dad" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> "Preston" > wrote in message
> ...
> Snip
>>
>> As you say "more" baseless fears, I presume you think mine are
>> baseless? That may be true, but it does contain salt - fact (most
>> detergents use it as the surfactant). And salt does increase corrosion
>> in steel & aluminium - fact.
>>
>> I don't know why you're getting so defensive, especially as I haven't
>> slated you for using it - just said that I choose not to, & stated why.
>>
>> --
>> Preston.
>
> What is NaCl? Is there any in the Dawn soap, I don't think so. Salts are
> often grouped according to the negative ion they contain, e.g.,
> bicarbonate or carbonate, chlorate, chloride, cyanide, fulminate, nitrate,
> phosphate, silicate, sulfate, or sulfide. Which one of those are in Dawn
> and are they corrosive? You can pay attention to novetyet but it wouldn't
> hurt to check what it actually does have in it and its actual affect on
> materials. Call it defensive if you wish but I try to deal in reality and
> not an old wives tale and/or hearsay.
>
> Did any of that damage to your 81 Corvette happen because of the salt in
> soap? Doubtful if it had anything to do with the white growth in the
> crevices of the example you gave either, more like trapped moisture.

The second "No Vette Yet" post below does list sodium chloride as an
ingredient. It also lists Sodium Lauryl Sulfate, Sodium Pareth-23 Sulfate,
and Sodium Cumenesulfonate, whatever the heck those are.

However, in Section XI the MSDS says while these detergents may be
irritating, they are "not expected to be corrosive." It says they are
expected to be emetic, so if a Corvette washed with one throws up, that's
SOP.

FWIW, when necessary, mine is currently being washed with Armor All Power
Wash Gel (won as a door prize at at car show) and dried with "The Absorber".
Armor All's website claims it "Won't strip wax like dish soap"
http://www.armorall.com/prod_powerwash.html

AJM
'93 Ruby coupe, 6 sp (both tops)

On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 15:18:16 -0600, (dave)
wrote:

>'Dawn as well as all other dishwashing detergents, removes the wax on a
>car ' !! -- Sal Zaino of Zaino Polish Inc.
>
>Dont use Dawn. Use proper car wash and wax.


Ok, if Dawn is a wax stripper.... suppose in theory you wash your car
with Dawn each time and then wax it. If the soap isn't corrosive per
the MSDS, what do you think of this method (assume the water isn't
hard) ?

Regardless of your answer, I don't plan to do this so feel free to
shoot me down or up.

On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 17:10:46 -0600, No Vette Yet wrote:

>On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 15:18:16 -0600, (dave)
>wrote:
>
>>'Dawn as well as all other dishwashing detergents, removes the wax on a
>>car ' !! -- Sal Zaino of Zaino Polish Inc.
>>
>>Dont use Dawn. Use proper car wash and wax.
>
>
>Ok, if Dawn is a wax stripper.... suppose in theory you wash your car
>with Dawn each time and then wax it.

The only downside to that is more work. Other than that I see no
problem.

'Ok, if Dawn is a wax stripper.... suppose in theory you wash your car
with Dawn each time and then wax it. If the soap isn't corrosive per the
MSDS, what do you think of this method (assume the water isn't hard) ?'

REPLY: Why wash your car with Dawn then wax it right afterward, if the
next time youre going to wash it with Dawn youll be taking that wax off
??? The idea behind waxing/polishing a car, is to build up a layer of
protection from the elements and to have it look shiny isnt it ? The
only reason to use Dawn is to remove the wax/polish so you can paint
your car if it needs it.

On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 18:49:48 -0600, (dave)
wrote:

>'Ok, if Dawn is a wax stripper.... suppose in theory you wash your car
>with Dawn each time and then wax it. If the soap isn't corrosive per the
>MSDS, what do you think of this method (assume the water isn't hard) ?'
>
>REPLY: Why wash your car with Dawn then wax it right afterward, if the
>next time youre going to wash it with Dawn youll be taking that wax off
>??? The idea behind waxing/polishing a car, is to build up a layer of
>protection from the elements and to have it look shiny isnt it ? The
>only reason to use Dawn is to remove the wax/polish so you can paint
>your car if it needs it.


I'm not sure if I agree with that's the only reason. Sometimes you
want to just take old wax off and start new. Of course, that doesn't
justify washing with dawn and rewaxing each time unless you don't wash
your car often.

I guess I agree with Dad, whatever makes you happy. I found my way,
Dad found his and so forth.

Dad wrote:

>
> "Preston" > wrote in message
> ... Snip
> >
> > As you say "more" baseless fears, I presume you think mine are
> > baseless? That may be true, but it does contain salt - fact (most
> > detergents use it as the surfactant). And salt does increase
> > corrosion in steel & aluminium - fact.
> >
> > I don't know why you're getting so defensive, especially as I
> > haven't slated you for using it - just said that I choose not to, &
> > stated why.
> >
> > -- Preston.
>
> What is NaCl?

Sodium Chloride aka table salt.

> Is there any in the Dawn soap, I don't think so.

Yes there is, according to No Vette Yet's list of ingredients. As I
said before, the Dawn site doesn't list the ingredients, but links to
another site with 'common ingredients' of dishwasher detergent, one of
which is salt.

There's a simple way to find out if it's a potential issue or not. If
someone who's got some fills a couple of jars with water, one
containing Dawn, & puts an un-plated steel nail in each, we'll have an
answer in a few days.

> Salts
> are often grouped according to the negative ion they contain, e.g.,
> bicarbonate or carbonate, chlorate, chloride, cyanide, fulminate,
> nitrate, phosphate, silicate, sulfate, or sulfide. Which one of those
> are in Dawn and are they corrosive?

Sodium Chloride is in Dawn & Sodium Chloride is corrosive. Therefore
Dawn is *potentially* corrosive, which is all I've been saying. The
other Sodiums may also be corrosive, but I don't know.

> You can pay attention to novetyet
> but it wouldn't hurt to check what it actually does have in it and
> its actual affect on materials. Call it defensive if you wish but I
> try to deal in reality and not an old wives tale and/or hearsay.
>
> Did any of that damage to your 81 Corvette happen because of the salt
> in soap?

I have no idea, not knowing what previous owners did with it. The vast
majority's down to it being sat outside in a damp environment for a
number of years though.


--
Preston.