Finally, California drivers can read a cell phone map (iPad too?)

In article >, T0m $herman
> wrote:
> On 3/15/2014 9:45 PM, Your Name wrote:
> > In article >, T0m $herman
> > > wrote:
> >> On 2/28/2014 2:12 AM, micky wrote:
> >>> I drove from Baltimore to Dallas and back a few yeas ago. I don't
> >>> remember trying to do this on the way there, but on the way back, I told
> >>> myself special circumstances existed (and they did) and tried a couple
> >>> times to read my paper map while driving. I didn't hit anything but it
> >>> was a big mistake.
> >>
> >> I have tried reading maps, talking on a phone, etc. while riding as a
> >> passenger, and found it impossible to pay attention to traffic and road
> >> conditions at the same time.
> >
> > If I tried reading a map as a passenger, I'd quickly be throwing up all
> > over the driver, which "might" prove to be a "little" distracting for
> > them. :-)
>
> Ever hear of rolling down the window and puking out the side?

That just means it will distract the driver behind instead with stuff
suddenly splattering all over their windscreen .. or worse if it's a
motorbike rider. ;-)

In article >, T0m $herman
> wrote:

> On 3/15/2014 9:55 PM, Your Name wrote:
> > In article >, T0m $herman
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> On 3/11/2014 3:10 PM, Your Name wrote:
> >>> In article >, DevilsPGD
> >>> > wrote:
> >>>> In the last episode of >, Your
> >>>> Name > said:
> >>>>> In article >, DevilsPGD
> >>>>> > wrote:
> >>>>>> In the last episode of >, Your
> >>>>>> Name > said:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> You "adjust things" when you get in. You pull over somewhere safe to
> >>>>>>> "adjust things". There's no need to "adjust things" while actually
> >>>>>>> driving.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Given that most cars have no thermostat, and instead rely on a "hotter
> >>>>>> vs colder" style knob, adjusting the temperature is often necessary.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The knobs (or in my car it's a slider) usually has a few variable
> >>>>> positions. In a car you drive often you would get used to what those
> >>>>> settings mean in terms of comfort.
> >>>>
> >>>> Probably. However, current interior and exterior temperatures are a
> >>>> factor, as will be the heat of the engine in a non-thermostat-controlled
> >>>> car.
> >>>>
> >>>>>> And a safety issue, if your windows start to fog unexpected.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Yes, and you carefully pull over and stop somewhere safe to do that,
> >>>>> then drive off when you can actually see properly again.
> >>>>
> >>>> You don't actually drive much, do you? You can normally observe the fog
> >>>> start since it typically appears first at the edges of the windshield.
> >>>> You can safely drive for minutes or seconds before the windshield is
> >>>> obscured, or with the flip of a switch, drive indefinitely.
> >>>>
> >>>> It's also difficult to predict when it will or will not fog, since one
> >>>> of the factors is the humidity and body heat of the passenger's breath.
> >>>
> >>> "You can safely drive for minutes or seconds" ... which means you can
> >>> pull over safely and stop (or at worst at a red traffic light), and
> >>> THEN fiddle with the controls. You DO NOT fiddle with controls while
> >>> actually driving.
> >>>
> >>> OR simply open the window before driving.
> >>
> >> Open the window how much, and which windows? This can only be
> >> determined while the vehicle is in motion (unless we build wind tunnels
> >> along side the road), and often requires frequent adjustments. Your
> >> contention is asinine.
> >
> > I almost always have both windows on my two-door car open. In winter
> > they may only be open a little. If it's pouring with rain they would
> > stay closed, but I instead set the vents to blow on the windscreen
> > before I drive off. Never ever had any issues with major fogging up at
> > all.
> >
> > There's no need at all to keep playing with the controls. That's likely
> > only going to make things worse.
>
> You must drive in different conditions than I do.

About the only weather condition I don't regularly drive in is snow. We
get pretty much everything else here over the course of a year ...
sometimes all within an hour!



> Again, both the length and degree of required attention to control
> ventilation and heating are magnitudes lower than making a mobile phone
> call.

I never said anything about the equality or otherwise of their
complexity. I simply said they are both unnecessary distractions from
actually driving the car.

Of course, it depends on how complicated you car's controls are ...
some of the in-car electronic systems from the likes of BMW or Mercedes
have been extremely idiotic and cumbersome to try and use, even when
parked! My car has just plain old simple manual buttons, switches and
sliders.

On 2014-03-16 04:45:42 +0000, Your Name said:

> In article >, T0m $herman
> > wrote:
>
>> On 3/15/2014 9:55 PM, Your Name wrote:
>>> In article >, T0m $herman
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3/11/2014 3:10 PM, Your Name wrote:
>>>>> In article >, DevilsPGD
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>> In the last episode of >, Your
>>>>>> Name > said:
>>>>>>> In article >, DevilsPGD
>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>> In the last episode of >, Your
>>>>>>>> Name > said:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You "adjust things" when you get in. You pull over somewhere safe to
>>>>>>>>> "adjust things". There's no need to "adjust things" while actually
>>>>>>>>> driving.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Given that most cars have no thermostat, and instead rely on a "hotter
>>>>>>>> vs colder" style knob, adjusting the temperature is often necessary.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The knobs (or in my car it's a slider) usually has a few variable
>>>>>>> positions. In a car you drive often you would get used to what those
>>>>>>> settings mean in terms of comfort.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Probably. However, current interior and exterior temperatures are a
>>>>>> factor, as will be the heat of the engine in a non-thermostat-controlled
>>>>>> car.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And a safety issue, if your windows start to fog unexpected.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, and you carefully pull over and stop somewhere safe to do that,
>>>>>>> then drive off when you can actually see properly again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You don't actually drive much, do you? You can normally observe the fog
>>>>>> start since it typically appears first at the edges of the windshield.
>>>>>> You can safely drive for minutes or seconds before the windshield is
>>>>>> obscured, or with the flip of a switch, drive indefinitely.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's also difficult to predict when it will or will not fog, since one
>>>>>> of the factors is the humidity and body heat of the passenger's breath.
>>>>>
>>>>> "You can safely drive for minutes or seconds" ... which means you can
>>>>> pull over safely and stop (or at worst at a red traffic light), and
>>>>> THEN fiddle with the controls. You DO NOT fiddle with controls while
>>>>> actually driving.
>>>>>
>>>>> OR simply open the window before driving.
>>>>
>>>> Open the window how much, and which windows? This can only be
>>>> determined while the vehicle is in motion (unless we build wind tunnels
>>>> along side the road), and often requires frequent adjustments. Your
>>>> contention is asinine.
>>>
>>> I almost always have both windows on my two-door car open. In winter
>>> they may only be open a little. If it's pouring with rain they would
>>> stay closed, but I instead set the vents to blow on the windscreen
>>> before I drive off. Never ever had any issues with major fogging up at
>>> all.
>>>
>>> There's no need at all to keep playing with the controls. That's likely
>>> only going to make things worse.
>>
>> You must drive in different conditions than I do.
>
> About the only weather condition I don't regularly drive in is snow. We
> get pretty much everything else here over the course of a year ...
> sometimes all within an hour!
>
>
>
>> Again, both the length and degree of required attention to control
>> ventilation and heating are magnitudes lower than making a mobile phone
>> call.
>
> I never said anything about the equality or otherwise of their
> complexity. I simply said they are both unnecessary distractions from
> actually driving the car.

As is rolling down a window...

>
> Of course, it depends on how complicated you car's controls are ...
> some of the in-car electronic systems from the likes of BMW or Mercedes
> have been extremely idiotic and cumbersome to try and use, even when
> parked! My car has just plain old simple manual buttons, switches and
> sliders.

In article >, T0m $herman
> wrote:

> On 3/15/2014 9:55 PM, Your Name wrote:
> > In article >, T0m $herman
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> On 3/11/2014 3:10 PM, Your Name wrote:
> >>> In article >, DevilsPGD
> >>> > wrote:
> >>>> In the last episode of >, Your
> >>>> Name > said:
> >>>>> In article >, DevilsPGD
> >>>>> > wrote:
> >>>>>> In the last episode of >, Your
> >>>>>> Name > said:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> You "adjust things" when you get in. You pull over somewhere safe to
> >>>>>>> "adjust things". There's no need to "adjust things" while actually
> >>>>>>> driving.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Given that most cars have no thermostat, and instead rely on a "hotter
> >>>>>> vs colder" style knob, adjusting the temperature is often necessary.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The knobs (or in my car it's a slider) usually has a few variable
> >>>>> positions. In a car you drive often you would get used to what those
> >>>>> settings mean in terms of comfort.
> >>>>
> >>>> Probably. However, current interior and exterior temperatures are a
> >>>> factor, as will be the heat of the engine in a non-thermostat-controlled
> >>>> car.
> >>>>
> >>>>>> And a safety issue, if your windows start to fog unexpected.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Yes, and you carefully pull over and stop somewhere safe to do that,
> >>>>> then drive off when you can actually see properly again.
> >>>>
> >>>> You don't actually drive much, do you? You can normally observe the fog
> >>>> start since it typically appears first at the edges of the windshield.
> >>>> You can safely drive for minutes or seconds before the windshield is
> >>>> obscured, or with the flip of a switch, drive indefinitely.
> >>>>
> >>>> It's also difficult to predict when it will or will not fog, since one
> >>>> of the factors is the humidity and body heat of the passenger's breath.
> >>>
> >>> "You can safely drive for minutes or seconds" ... which means you can
> >>> pull over safely and stop (or at worst at a red traffic light), and
> >>> THEN fiddle with the controls. You DO NOT fiddle with controls while
> >>> actually driving.
> >>>
> >>> OR simply open the window before driving.
> >>
> >> Open the window how much, and which windows? This can only be
> >> determined while the vehicle is in motion (unless we build wind tunnels
> >> along side the road), and often requires frequent adjustments. Your
> >> contention is asinine.
> >
> > I almost always have both windows on my two-door car open. In winter
> > they may only be open a little. If it's pouring with rain they would
> > stay closed, but I instead set the vents to blow on the windscreen
> > before I drive off. Never ever had any issues with major fogging up at
> > all.
> >
> > There's no need at all to keep playing with the controls. That's likely
> > only going to make things worse.
> >
> You must drive in different conditions than I do.
>
> Again, both the length and degree of required attention to control
> ventilation and heating are magnitudes lower than making a mobile phone
> call.

The length of time isn't really relevant. It can take just a small
fraction of a second for something unseen to happen. Even something as
brief (and usually uncontrollable) as a sneeze making you close your
eyes can result in you plowing into the car in front that has suddenly
stopped.

In article >, T0m $herman
> wrote:

> On 3/15/2014 4:06 PM, Your Name wrote:
> > In article >, T0m $herman
> > > wrote:
> >> On 3/12/2014 12:53 AM, Your Name wrote:
> >>> I said "some places". There's also a variety of other reasons for
> >>> perhaps not moving over to the "slower" lanes ... including all the
> >>> impatient morons zooming up behind you, changing lanes and passing you
> >>> on the "wrong side".
> >>
> >> Your paragraph makes no sense.
> >
> > It makes perfect sense.
> >
> >
> >
> >> Staying in the right lane (left lane for
> >> most of the Commonwealth and Japan) means the faster traffic will
> >> naturally overtake on the correct side. Works in Northern Europe, where
> >> the police *will* ticket you for blocking the inside lane.
> >
> > I purposely avoided using "left lane" and "right lane" so that it was
> > irrelevant which side of the road a particular country drives on.
> >
> If you were paying attention, you would not have people "zooming" up
> behind you and passing in the outside lane.
>
> The only time people ever pass me on the right on controlled access
> roads is where there is an exit-only lane and someone moton [1] go by in
> it at higher speed.
>
> [1] Conflation of motorist and moron.

As I said somewhere (may even have been snipped from above), the only
time I've had people zoom up from behind in free-flowing traffic
conditions is when they're exceeding the speed limit, so they shouldn't
even be going that fast in the first place.

On 2014-03-16 04:48:48 +0000, Your Name said:

> In article >, T0m $herman
> > wrote:
>
>> On 3/15/2014 9:55 PM, Your Name wrote:
>>> In article >, T0m $herman
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3/11/2014 3:10 PM, Your Name wrote:
>>>>> In article >, DevilsPGD
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>> In the last episode of >, Your
>>>>>> Name > said:
>>>>>>> In article >, DevilsPGD
>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>> In the last episode of >, Your
>>>>>>>> Name > said:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You "adjust things" when you get in. You pull over somewhere safe to
>>>>>>>>> "adjust things". There's no need to "adjust things" while actually
>>>>>>>>> driving.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Given that most cars have no thermostat, and instead rely on a "hotter
>>>>>>>> vs colder" style knob, adjusting the temperature is often necessary.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The knobs (or in my car it's a slider) usually has a few variable
>>>>>>> positions. In a car you drive often you would get used to what those
>>>>>>> settings mean in terms of comfort.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Probably. However, current interior and exterior temperatures are a
>>>>>> factor, as will be the heat of the engine in a non-thermostat-controlled
>>>>>> car.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And a safety issue, if your windows start to fog unexpected.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, and you carefully pull over and stop somewhere safe to do that,
>>>>>>> then drive off when you can actually see properly again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You don't actually drive much, do you? You can normally observe the fog
>>>>>> start since it typically appears first at the edges of the windshield.
>>>>>> You can safely drive for minutes or seconds before the windshield is
>>>>>> obscured, or with the flip of a switch, drive indefinitely.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's also difficult to predict when it will or will not fog, since one
>>>>>> of the factors is the humidity and body heat of the passenger's breath.
>>>>>
>>>>> "You can safely drive for minutes or seconds" ... which means you can
>>>>> pull over safely and stop (or at worst at a red traffic light), and
>>>>> THEN fiddle with the controls. You DO NOT fiddle with controls while
>>>>> actually driving.
>>>>>
>>>>> OR simply open the window before driving.
>>>>
>>>> Open the window how much, and which windows? This can only be
>>>> determined while the vehicle is in motion (unless we build wind tunnels
>>>> along side the road), and often requires frequent adjustments. Your
>>>> contention is asinine.
>>>
>>> I almost always have both windows on my two-door car open. In winter
>>> they may only be open a little. If it's pouring with rain they would
>>> stay closed, but I instead set the vents to blow on the windscreen
>>> before I drive off. Never ever had any issues with major fogging up at
>>> all.
>>>
>>> There's no need at all to keep playing with the controls. That's likely
>>> only going to make things worse.
>>>
>> You must drive in different conditions than I do.
>>
>> Again, both the length and degree of required attention to control
>> ventilation and heating are magnitudes lower than making a mobile phone
>> call.
>
> The length of time isn't really relevant. It can take just a small
> fraction of a second for something unseen to happen. Even something as
> brief (and usually uncontrollable) as a sneeze making you close your
> eyes can result in you plowing into the car in front that has suddenly
> stopped.

If a sneeze can make you run into the car ahead of you, you're
following too closely.

But I'm interested in the fact that you'll roll down windows
(unnecessary), but happily declare that switching on the defog for the
windshield is too "distracting".

In article >, T0m $herman
> wrote:

> On 3/15/2014 5:46 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
> > On 2014-03-15, T0m $herman > wrote:
> >> On 3/12/2014 12:53 AM, Your Name wrote:
> >>> I said "some places". There's also a variety of other reasons for
> >>> perhaps not moving over to the "slower" lanes ... including all the
> >>> impatient morons zooming up behind you, changing lanes and passing you
> >>> on the "wrong side".
> >>
> >> Your paragraph makes no sense. Staying in the right lane (left lane for
> >> most of the Commonwealth and Japan) means the faster traffic will
> >> naturally overtake on the correct side. Works in Northern Europe, where
> >> the police *will* ticket you for blocking the inside lane.
> >
> > That makes perfect sense for two-lane roads. Are all of the highways you
> > drive two-lane roads? Around these parts, we can have many more than
> > just two lanes. Or do you expect all drivers to remain in the right-most
> > lane even when there are 3, 4, or 5 lanes available, just so that the
> > Fast & Furious can have the road all to themselves?
>
> Yes I do, and yes I did when I commuted regularly on 6 and 8-lane
> controlled access roads.

There's a section of the motorway I regularly drive which has three
lanes, the "slow" lane of which has an off-ramp and also continues a
bit further before merging into the second lane. During busy peak times
all the lanes are moving slowly, but the cars in the "slow" lane almost
all use the off-ramp, so the selfish morons in the second lane then
swap to the empty section of "slow" lane to zoom ahead passing on the
"wrong" side to then try to push in again where it merges ... simply
adding to the congestion problems.

The fools in charge of the motorway are now planning (in fact started
work on it recently) to extend the three lanes further along the
motorway, which will simply push the problem further along rather than
actually solve anything.

On 2014-03-16 04:52:42 +0000, Your Name said:

> In article >, T0m $herman
> > wrote:
>
>> On 3/15/2014 4:06 PM, Your Name wrote:
>>> In article >, T0m $herman
>>> > wrote:
>>>> On 3/12/2014 12:53 AM, Your Name wrote:
>>>>> I said "some places". There's also a variety of other reasons for
>>>>> perhaps not moving over to the "slower" lanes ... including all the
>>>>> impatient morons zooming up behind you, changing lanes and passing you
>>>>> on the "wrong side".
>>>>
>>>> Your paragraph makes no sense.
>>>
>>> It makes perfect sense.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Staying in the right lane (left lane for
>>>> most of the Commonwealth and Japan) means the faster traffic will
>>>> naturally overtake on the correct side. Works in Northern Europe, where
>>>> the police *will* ticket you for blocking the inside lane.
>>>
>>> I purposely avoided using "left lane" and "right lane" so that it was
>>> irrelevant which side of the road a particular country drives on.
>>>
>> If you were paying attention, you would not have people "zooming" up
>> behind you and passing in the outside lane.
>>
>> The only time people ever pass me on the right on controlled access
>> roads is where there is an exit-only lane and someone moton [1] go by in
>> it at higher speed.
>>
>> [1] Conflation of motorist and moron.
>
> As I said somewhere (may even have been snipped from above), the only
> time I've had people zoom up from behind in free-flowing traffic
> conditions is when they're exceeding the speed limit, so they shouldn't
> even be going that fast in the first place.

It's not your business to worry about at what speed other people choose
to travel.

If you're truly dedicated to what is safest, then stay in the outside
lane unless you're passing.

In article >, T0m $herman
> wrote:

> On 3/15/2014 10:53 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
> > On 2014-03-16, T0m $herman > wrote:
> >> On 3/15/2014 5:50 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
> >>> On 2014-03-15, T0m $herman > wrote:
> >>>> On 3/12/2014 12:42 AM, Jolly Roger wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> They stick to the left lane going way faster than everyone else, and
> >>>>> then after tailgating someone in the left lane for a while and getting
> >>>>> all ****y that people aren't getting out of their way since they own the
> >>>>> road, they swerve in front of other drivers in the right lane to pass. I
> >>>>> see it happen a lot, yep.
> >>>>
> >>>> Richard Petty was right - bumper tapping people blocking the passing
> >>>> lane is acceptable behavior.
> >>>
> >>> Sorry, while I'm sure you are making a joke here, driving in an unsafe
> >>> manner is never acceptable behavior.
> >>>
> >> Yes, blocking the inside lane on a controlled access road is unsafe and
> >> never acceptable.
> >
> > You'd have to be a complete idiot to believe that tapping someone's
> > bumper at high speed is less dangerous than simply slowing down and
> > changing lanes to avoid slower traffic in front of you.
> >
> Who said it was less dangerous? Spinning people out who deliberately
> block the passing lane would be dangerous, but ultimately a social
> benefit. Got to break a few eggs to make an omelet, eh?

There's a series of car-saftey-related TV adverts here in New Zealand
that use stop-motion animated egg-characters, with the usual awful
egg-structiatingly bad puns. ;-)

In article >, T0m $herman
> wrote:

> On 3/15/2014 5:31 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
> > Another reason one might find themselves wanting to be in the
> > middle lane is when there are a lot of cars on an entrance ramp entering
> > the highway in the right lane.
>
> Why? You have the right-of-way over the merging vehicles, and it is up
> to them to avoid you.

Sometimes the design of the on-ramp means they can't see you as easily
as you can see them.

There's a byline used in saftey signs and adverts here that say "Merge
like a zip" (ie. the teeth of the zip from each half alternating) ...
unfortunately most drivers merge like battering ram. :-(