tie-rod end (and SF mechanic suggestion?)

I have 2 dilemmas (a quartlemma?). 1) I don't know if I should have a
lot of the front-end work (i.e. tie-rod end and king pin replaced)
done simultaneously, or just the essential. 2) I don't know who to
bring the car to.

1) I have a 1965 Ghia (with a 1600cc dual-port engine). When I bought
it ~6 months ago, I had a lot of work done on it (transmission
rebuild, breaks fixed, wheel barrings replaced). Yesterday, I took it
to a second mechanic and we noticed that right (passenger-side) inner
tie-rod end is very worn. When we moved the right wheel, the
connection to the steering connector was very sloppy. It looks
dangerous and I want to replace it. But should I have the other tie-
rod ends replaced at the same time, even if they look OK? The left
outer tie-rod end boot is a little cracked.

Both mechanics noticed play in the left king pin, but were able to
grease the king pin and eliminate most of the play. It doesn't look as
dire as the tie-rod end, on the other side, but should I replace the
king pin and linking pins at the same time? I'd like to do the minimum
to be safe and prevent further damage.

From reading the Muir book, it seems that wheel alignment after one
tie-rod end replacement shouldn't be too complicated. If I had all the
parts worked on, then alignment might be more difficult and costly.

2) Grrrr. I need to buy tools, especially a jack, and start learning
how to do this stuff on my own. But the tie-rod end doesn't look like
it can wait for that.

Does anybody know a great aircooled VW mechanic in the San Francisco
Bay Area (I'm in Palo Alto, on the Penninsula)? I'm not sure I should
go back to the first mechanic (who didn't notice the dangerous tie-rod
end) or the second mechanic (who doesn't seem to do a TON of work on
aircooled, but probably could do the job 1000 times better than I
could).

-Sam

P.S. I sent this same question to the KG listserv, so I hope too many
people didn't have to see it twice!

I vote you take it back to the mechanic that did all of the work to it!

So he/she missed the bad loose tie rod end recently, or it has been 6 months
since he/she has seen it?

It is your preference to change out all of the tie rods or tie rod ends.
Sometimes it is easier to replace the entire tie rod than try to loosen up a
tie rod end that is rusted to the tie rod. But you may not have that
problem in SF! ;-)

JMHO
--
later,
(One out of many daves)


"Sam" > wrote in message
...
>I have 2 dilemmas (a quartlemma?). 1) I don't know if I should have a
> lot of the front-end work (i.e. tie-rod end and king pin replaced)
> done simultaneously, or just the essential. 2) I don't know who to
> bring the car to.
>
> 1) I have a 1965 Ghia (with a 1600cc dual-port engine). When I bought
> it ~6 months ago, I had a lot of work done on it (transmission
> rebuild, breaks fixed, wheel barrings replaced). Yesterday, I took it
> to a second mechanic and we noticed that right (passenger-side) inner
> tie-rod end is very worn. When we moved the right wheel, the
> connection to the steering connector was very sloppy. It looks
> dangerous and I want to replace it. But should I have the other tie-
> rod ends replaced at the same time, even if they look OK? The left
> outer tie-rod end boot is a little cracked.
>
> Both mechanics noticed play in the left king pin, but were able to
> grease the king pin and eliminate most of the play. It doesn't look as
> dire as the tie-rod end, on the other side, but should I replace the
> king pin and linking pins at the same time? I'd like to do the minimum
> to be safe and prevent further damage.
>
> From reading the Muir book, it seems that wheel alignment after one
> tie-rod end replacement shouldn't be too complicated. If I had all the
> parts worked on, then alignment might be more difficult and costly.
>
> 2) Grrrr. I need to buy tools, especially a jack, and start learning
> how to do this stuff on my own. But the tie-rod end doesn't look like
> it can wait for that.
>
> Does anybody know a great aircooled VW mechanic in the San Francisco
> Bay Area (I'm in Palo Alto, on the Penninsula)? I'm not sure I should
> go back to the first mechanic (who didn't notice the dangerous tie-rod
> end) or the second mechanic (who doesn't seem to do a TON of work on
> aircooled, but probably could do the job 1000 times better than I
> could).
>
> -Sam
>
> P.S. I sent this same question to the KG listserv, so I hope too many
> people didn't have to see it twice!

Sam wrote:
> I have 2 dilemmas (a quartlemma?). 1) I don't know if I should have a
> lot of the front-end work (i.e. tie-rod end and king pin replaced)
> done simultaneously, or just the essential. 2) I don't know who to
> bring the car to.
>
> 1) I have a 1965 Ghia (with a 1600cc dual-port engine). When I bought
> it ~6 months ago, I had a lot of work done on it (transmission
> rebuild, breaks fixed, wheel barrings replaced). Yesterday, I took it
> to a second mechanic and we noticed that right (passenger-side) inner
> tie-rod end is very worn. When we moved the right wheel, the
> connection to the steering connector was very sloppy. It looks
> dangerous and I want to replace it. But should I have the other tie-
> rod ends replaced at the same time, even if they look OK? The left
> outer tie-rod end boot is a little cracked.
>
> Both mechanics noticed play in the left king pin, but were able to
> grease the king pin and eliminate most of the play. It doesn't look as
> dire as the tie-rod end, on the other side, but should I replace the
> king pin and linking pins at the same time? I'd like to do the minimum
> to be safe and prevent further damage.
>
> From reading the Muir book, it seems that wheel alignment after one
> tie-rod end replacement shouldn't be too complicated. If I had all the
> parts worked on, then alignment might be more difficult and costly.
>
> 2) Grrrr. I need to buy tools, especially a jack, and start learning
> how to do this stuff on my own. But the tie-rod end doesn't look like
> it can wait for that.
>
> Does anybody know a great aircooled VW mechanic in the San Francisco
> Bay Area (I'm in Palo Alto, on the Penninsula)? I'm not sure I should
> go back to the first mechanic (who didn't notice the dangerous tie-rod
> end) or the second mechanic (who doesn't seem to do a TON of work on
> aircooled, but probably could do the job 1000 times better than I
> could).
>
> -Sam
>
> P.S. I sent this same question to the KG listserv, so I hope too many
> people didn't have to see it twice!


You can do the tie rod yourself. You could rent (free, you get your
deposit back) a puller from some auto parts stores, down here in Florida
Autozone and Advance Discount Autoparts have a free loaner tool program.
They don't cost a ton to buy either, and the same tool should also be
able to pop the ball joints off the spindle. A couple different designs
exist, that you turn with a wrench to work them. Or you could buy a
cheap pickle fork and hit it with a big hammer to pop the joint loose.
I also have a pickle fork kit that attaches to an air hammer... no
manual labor: BRRRRAAAPPP and it's off (around $50 at Sears)

before you start turning the tie rod end off the rod, clean the rod
somewhere in the middle, and mark it with something. Tape, marker,
paint.. whatever works. Then measure the distance from your mark to the
center of the tie rod socket cup/cover. You want the new tie rod end
screwed in so the distance stays the same, that way your alignment won't
change much at all. (if it was out of spec to begin with, it will
still be out).

I would do all the tie rod ends at the same time, parts aren't that
expensive and once you've done one, you know how to do it and the rest
won't take as long to replace. If you did only one, and took the car to
a shop for an alignment and they found other tie rod ends with wear and
play, you wasted your time.

A cheap little 2-ton rolling floor jack is all you need for small
repairs on a beetle, you should be able to find one for $25-25. Worth
every penny. For this job, a jackstand or two would be nice too.


If you have play in the tie rod ends, a professional alignment cannot be
done. (if someone says they can, they are stealing your money. I do
alignments for a living, among other things).

I don't know link pin front ends well enough to say how much play is
allowed and normal, and how much that would affect alignment. I know
excess ball joint play makes alignment difficult, or just impossible.
You can get it sort of in the ballpark, enough to make the vehicle
driveable, but that's about it.

An alignment shop would REALLY appreciate it if all the tie rod nuts and
ends move easily on the rods, instead of being rusted solid. Some shops
may tell you they cannot be adjusted due to rust. Some may charge extra.
Go to a shop that charges flat rates, i.e. list prices for labor, if
you want to eliminate surprises. Tip the mechanic! he is losing money if
he has to fight with rusty, stuck parts. Downside is, they will do
everything they can to do it as fast as possible. Quality and accuracy
are secondary. I work in a flat rate shop. And hate it.

You can do a crude toe in/out adjustment at home with just a tape
measure, that might get you by. Ballpark, again, to keep the car
driveable. Camber and caster adjustments require some special tools or
fabrication of such, which I assume are outside of your scope for DIY
work right now.

Jan

You could contact the Golden Gate Chapter for recommendations on good VW
shops in the area:

http://www.ggcvvwca.org/

They are a nice bunch of people of all ages and backgrounds. Maybe you
would like to join.

Thanks, everyone, for your comments. I feel encouraged!

-Sam



On Sep 26, 8:39*pm, Jan Andersson >
wrote:
> Sam wrote:
> > I have 2 dilemmas (a quartlemma?). 1) I don't know if I should have a
> > lot of the front-end work (i.e. tie-rod end and king pin replaced)
> > done simultaneously, or just the essential. 2) I don't know who to
> > bring the car to.
>
> > 1) I have a 1965 Ghia (with a 1600cc dual-port engine). When I bought
> > it ~6 months ago, I had a lot of work done on it (transmission
> > rebuild, breaks fixed, wheel barrings replaced). Yesterday, I took it
> > to a second mechanic and we noticed that right (passenger-side) inner
> > tie-rod end is very worn. When we moved the right wheel, the
> > connection to the steering connector was very sloppy. It looks
> > dangerous and I want to replace it. But should I have the other tie-
> > rod ends replaced at the same time, even if they look OK? The left
> > outer tie-rod end boot is a little cracked.
>
> > Both mechanics noticed play in the left king pin, but were able to
> > grease the king pin and eliminate most of the play. It doesn't look as
> > dire as the tie-rod end, on the other side, but should I replace the
> > king pin and linking pins at the same time? I'd like to do the minimum
> > to be safe and prevent further damage.
>
> > From reading the Muir book, it seems that wheel alignment after one
> > tie-rod end replacement shouldn't be too complicated. If I had all the
> > parts worked on, then alignment might be more difficult and costly.
>
> > 2) Grrrr. I need to buy tools, especially a jack, and start learning
> > how to do this stuff on my own. But the tie-rod end doesn't look like
> > it can wait for that.
>
> > Does anybody know a great aircooled VW mechanic in the San Francisco
> > Bay Area (I'm in Palo Alto, on the Penninsula)? I'm not sure I should
> > go back to the first mechanic (who didn't notice the dangerous tie-rod
> > end) or the second mechanic (who doesn't seem to do a TON of work on
> > aircooled, but probably could do the job 1000 times better than I
> > could).
>
> > -Sam
>
> > P.S. I sent this same question to the KG listserv, so I hope too many
> > people didn't have to see it twice!
>
> You can do the tie rod yourself. You could rent (free, you get your
> deposit back) a puller from some auto parts stores, down here in Florida
> Autozone and Advance Discount Autoparts have a free loaner tool program.
> * They don't cost a ton to buy either, and the same tool should also be
> able to pop the ball joints off the spindle. A couple different designs
> exist, that you turn with a wrench to work them. Or you could buy a
> cheap pickle fork and hit it with a big hammer to pop the joint loose.
> I also have a pickle fork kit that attaches to an air hammer... no
> manual labor: BRRRRAAAPPP and it's off (around $50 at Sears)
>
> before you start turning the tie rod end off the rod, clean the rod
> somewhere in the middle, and mark it with something. Tape, marker,
> paint.. whatever works. Then measure the distance from your mark to the
> center of the tie rod socket cup/cover. You want the new tie rod end
> screwed in so the distance stays the same, that way your alignment won't
> * change much at all. (if it was out of spec to begin with, it will
> still be out).
>
> I would do all the tie rod ends at the same time, parts aren't that
> expensive and once you've done one, you know how to do it and the rest
> won't take as long to replace. If you did only one, and took the car to
> a shop for an alignment and they found other tie rod ends with wear and
> play, you wasted your time.
>
> A cheap little 2-ton rolling floor jack is all you need for small
> repairs on a beetle, you should be able to find one for $25-25. Worth
> every penny. For this job, a jackstand or two would be nice too.
>
> If you have play in the tie rod ends, a professional alignment cannot be
> done. (if someone says they can, they are stealing your money. I do
> alignments for a living, among other things).
>
> I don't know link pin front ends well enough to say how much play is
> allowed and normal, and how much that would affect alignment. I know
> excess ball joint play makes alignment difficult, or just impossible.
> You can get it sort of in the ballpark, enough to make the vehicle
> driveable, but that's about it.
>
> An alignment shop would REALLY appreciate it if all the tie rod nuts and
> ends move easily on the rods, instead of being rusted solid. Some shops
> may tell you they cannot be adjusted due to rust. Some may charge extra.
> * Go to a shop that charges flat rates, i.e. list prices for labor, if
> you want to eliminate surprises. Tip the mechanic! he is losing money if
> he has to fight with rusty, stuck parts. Downside is, they will do
> everything they can to do it as fast as possible. Quality and accuracy
> are secondary. I work in a flat rate shop. And hate it.
>
> You can do a crude toe in/out adjustment at home with just a tape
> measure, that might get you by. Ballpark, again, to keep the car
> driveable. Camber and caster adjustments require some special tools or
> fabrication of such, which I assume are outside of your scope for DIY
> work right now.
>
> Jan

On Sat, 27 Sep 2008 05:39:21 +0200, Jan Andersson
> wrote:

> Sam wrote:
>> I have 2 dilemmas (a quartlemma?). 1) I don't know if I should have a
>> lot of the front-end work (i.e. tie-rod end and king pin replaced)
>> done simultaneously, or just the essential. 2) I don't know who to
>> bring the car to.
>> 1) I have a 1965 Ghia (with a 1600cc dual-port engine). When I bought
>> it ~6 months ago, I had a lot of work done on it (transmission
>> rebuild, breaks fixed, wheel barrings replaced). Yesterday, I took it
>> to a second mechanic and we noticed that right (passenger-side) inner
>> tie-rod end is very worn. When we moved the right wheel, the
>> connection to the steering connector was very sloppy. It looks
>> dangerous and I want to replace it. But should I have the other tie-
>> rod ends replaced at the same time, even if they look OK? The left
>> outer tie-rod end boot is a little cracked.
>> Both mechanics noticed play in the left king pin, but were able to
>> grease the king pin and eliminate most of the play. It doesn't look as
>> dire as the tie-rod end, on the other side, but should I replace the
>> king pin and linking pins at the same time? I'd like to do the minimum
>> to be safe and prevent further damage.
>> From reading the Muir book, it seems that wheel alignment after one
>> tie-rod end replacement shouldn't be too complicated. If I had all the
>> parts worked on, then alignment might be more difficult and costly.
>> 2) Grrrr. I need to buy tools, especially a jack, and start learning
>> how to do this stuff on my own. But the tie-rod end doesn't look like
>> it can wait for that.
>> Does anybody know a great aircooled VW mechanic in the San Francisco
>> Bay Area (I'm in Palo Alto, on the Penninsula)? I'm not sure I should
>> go back to the first mechanic (who didn't notice the dangerous tie-rod
>> end) or the second mechanic (who doesn't seem to do a TON of work on
>> aircooled, but probably could do the job 1000 times better than I
>> could).
>> -Sam
>> P.S. I sent this same question to the KG listserv, so I hope too many
>> people didn't have to see it twice!
>
>
> You can do the tie rod yourself. You could rent (free, you get your
> deposit back) a puller from some auto parts stores, down here in Florida
> Autozone and Advance Discount Autoparts have a free loaner tool program.
> They don't cost a ton to buy either, and the same tool should also be
> able to pop the ball joints off the spindle. A couple different designs
> exist, that you turn with a wrench to work them. Or you could buy a
> cheap pickle fork and hit it with a big hammer to pop the joint loose.
> I also have a pickle fork kit that attaches to an air hammer... no
> manual labor: "BRRRRAAAPPP"


"BRRRRAAAPPP" Peasoup and beer does that for me as well

and it's off (around $50 at Sears)
>
> before you start turning the tie rod end off the rod, clean the rod
> somewhere in the middle, and mark it with something. Tape, marker,
> paint.. whatever works. Then measure the distance from your mark to the
> center of the tie rod socket cup/cover. You want the new tie rod end
> screwed in so the distance stays the same, that way your alignment won't
> change much at all. (if it was out of spec to begin with, it will
> still be out).
>
> I would do all the tie rod ends at the same time, parts aren't that
> expensive and once you've done one, you know how to do it and the rest
> won't take as long to replace. If you did only one, and took the car to
> a shop for an alignment and they found other tie rod ends with wear and
> play, you wasted your time.
>
> A cheap little 2-ton rolling floor jack is all you need for small
> repairs on a beetle, you should be able to find one for $25-25. Worth
> every penny. For this job, a jackstand or two would be nice too.
>
>
> If you have play in the tie rod ends, a professional alignment cannot be
> done. (if someone says they can, they are stealing your money. I do
> alignments for a living, among other things).
>
> I don't know link pin front ends well enough to say how much play is
> allowed and normal, and how much that would affect alignment.

The king pin itself is not adjustable as you know, but can and should be
greased at all times.
If worn, grease will work for a day or two(Takes out the slack).

When it comes to the two link pins on each side, they are shimmed and
should not have their shims moved around unless you can measure camber.
The play should be set to "tight but not binding". Of cause there are
given data, but most people do not know how to measure correctly..

It is amazing how some of these vehicles have stood up to negligence
though.
Being very young at not attentive, I had a front wheel lock up in turns
only. The nut holding the outer bearing/drum+inner bearing was about to
come off the spindle..
And I had only used it for a week that way..

That being said, I bent a rear axle on my -56 T1 during the winter, being
mechanicaly inclined and with a friend who was a Bus mechanic we tore the
tranny out of the car.
Little did we know that you had to split the tranny on the -56 to replace
the axles, we managed to get it together somehow.
If you read a proper shop-manual for those old trannys, you would notice a
few critical measures, I guess we where lucky.
The only bitch I can remember was a constant oil leak into the left rear
drum, you got used to the "Three wheel twist" after a while.
Either I had gotten the order of shims/spacers/gaskets wrong twice, Or the
axle had streched,or the drum shrunk .

The great thing about early air-cooled VW's you could actually get away
with these things.

My uncle raced Formula Vee and Formula 3 cars being young, him and my
grandfather(His father) loaded the Formula V car onto a single cab Vw
pickup and drove from Oslo to Monaco! Somwhere in France the pickup's
engine said goodbye and left them stranded. The story goes: A Norwegian on
the FISA(?) board passed them and asked if it was anything he could do to
help?
Neither my grandfather or his son spoke much lingo at all, so they asked
whetter he knew of a scrapyard where they could look for a donor engine.
End of the story, less than one hour later they where on their way!
A side note: Being stranded with little or no cash the future did not look
to bright, so my uncle had started to unbolt the Formula Vee engine to
transplant into the pickup when this helpful individual turned up.

When in Monaco they slept under the tarp of the Pickup in the pit area,
whilst the rest enjoyed the local hotels.

And as a side note, my uncle took part in Monaco GP twice, If I have got
it right, one time in Formula Vee and once in Formula 3, 1967 is a year I
know for sure, the other is either a year earlier or later..

I grew up on these stories, and got to see one or two of the race cars
before he quit, being four or five at the time it was better than sex?
Nah, to early, food? Candy? Overdoze of Banana Split? Yeah, that must be
it.

J.

I know
> excess ball joint play makes alignment difficult, or just impossible.
> You can get it sort of in the ballpark, enough to make the vehicle
> driveable, but that's about it.
>
> An alignment shop would REALLY appreciate it if all the tie rod nuts and
> ends move easily on the rods, instead of being rusted solid. Some shops
> may tell you they cannot be adjusted due to rust. Some may charge extra.
> Go to a shop that charges flat rates, i.e. list prices for labor, if
> you want to eliminate surprises. Tip the mechanic! he is losing money if
> he has to fight with rusty, stuck parts. Downside is, they will do
> everything they can to do it as fast as possible. Quality and accuracy
> are secondary. I work in a flat rate shop. And hate it.
>
> You can do a crude toe in/out adjustment at home with just a tape
> measure, that might get you by. Ballpark, again, to keep the car
> driveable. Camber and caster adjustments require some special tools or
> fabrication of such, which I assume are outside of your scope for DIY
> work right now.
>
> Jan



--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

On Sep 27, 11:38*am, Sam > wrote:
> Thanks, everyone, for your comments. I feel encouraged!
>
> -Sam
>
> On Sep 26, 8:39*pm, Jan Andersson >
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Sam wrote:
> > > I have 2 dilemmas (a quartlemma?). 1) I don't know if I should have a
> > > lot of the front-end work (i.e. tie-rod end and king pin replaced)
> > > done simultaneously, or just the essential. 2) I don't know who to
> > > bring the car to.
>
> > > 1) I have a 1965 Ghia (with a 1600cc dual-port engine). When I bought
> > > it ~6 months ago, I had a lot of work done on it (transmission
> > > rebuild, breaks fixed, wheel barrings replaced). Yesterday, I took it
> > > to a second mechanic and we noticed that right (passenger-side) inner
> > > tie-rod end is very worn. When we moved the right wheel, the
> > > connection to the steering connector was very sloppy. It looks
> > > dangerous and I want to replace it. But should I have the other tie-
> > > rod ends replaced at the same time, even if they look OK? The left
> > > outer tie-rod end boot is a little cracked.
>
> > > Both mechanics noticed play in the left king pin, but were able to
> > > grease the king pin and eliminate most of the play. It doesn't look as
> > > dire as the tie-rod end, on the other side, but should I replace the
> > > king pin and linking pins at the same time? I'd like to do the minimum
> > > to be safe and prevent further damage.
>
> > > From reading the Muir book, it seems that wheel alignment after one
> > > tie-rod end replacement shouldn't be too complicated. If I had all the
> > > parts worked on, then alignment might be more difficult and costly.
>
> > > 2) Grrrr. I need to buy tools, especially a jack, and start learning
> > > how to do this stuff on my own. But the tie-rod end doesn't look like
> > > it can wait for that.
>
> > > Does anybody know a great aircooled VW mechanic in the San Francisco
> > > Bay Area (I'm in Palo Alto, on the Penninsula)? I'm not sure I should
> > > go back to the first mechanic (who didn't notice the dangerous tie-rod
> > > end) or the second mechanic (who doesn't seem to do a TON of work on
> > > aircooled, but probably could do the job 1000 times better than I
> > > could).
>
> > > -Sam
>
> > > P.S. I sent this same question to the KG listserv, so I hope too many
> > > people didn't have to see it twice!
>
> > You can do the tie rod yourself. You could rent (free, you get your
> > deposit back) a puller from some auto parts stores, down here in Florida
> > Autozone and Advance Discount Autoparts have a free loaner tool program..
> > * They don't cost a ton to buy either, and the same tool should also be
> > able to pop the ball joints off the spindle. A couple different designs
> > exist, that you turn with a wrench to work them. Or you could buy a
> > cheap pickle fork and hit it with a big hammer to pop the joint loose.
> > I also have a pickle fork kit that attaches to an air hammer... no
> > manual labor: BRRRRAAAPPP and it's off (around $50 at Sears)
>
> > before you start turning the tie rod end off the rod, clean the rod
> > somewhere in the middle, and mark it with something. Tape, marker,
> > paint.. whatever works. Then measure the distance from your mark to the
> > center of the tie rod socket cup/cover. You want the new tie rod end
> > screwed in so the distance stays the same, that way your alignment won't
> > * change much at all. (if it was out of spec to begin with, it will
> > still be out).
>
> > I would do all the tie rod ends at the same time, parts aren't that
> > expensive and once you've done one, you know how to do it and the rest
> > won't take as long to replace. If you did only one, and took the car to
> > a shop for an alignment and they found other tie rod ends with wear and
> > play, you wasted your time.
>
> > A cheap little 2-ton rolling floor jack is all you need for small
> > repairs on a beetle, you should be able to find one for $25-25. Worth
> > every penny. For this job, a jackstand or two would be nice too.
>
> > If you have play in the tie rod ends, a professional alignment cannot be
> > done. (if someone says they can, they are stealing your money. I do
> > alignments for a living, among other things).
>
> > I don't know link pin front ends well enough to say how much play is
> > allowed and normal, and how much that would affect alignment. I know
> > excess ball joint play makes alignment difficult, or just impossible.
> > You can get it sort of in the ballpark, enough to make the vehicle
> > driveable, but that's about it.
>
> > An alignment shop would REALLY appreciate it if all the tie rod nuts and
> > ends move easily on the rods, instead of being rusted solid. Some shops
> > may tell you they cannot be adjusted due to rust. Some may charge extra..
> > * Go to a shop that charges flat rates, i.e. list prices for labor, if
> > you want to eliminate surprises. Tip the mechanic! he is losing money if
> > he has to fight with rusty, stuck parts. Downside is, they will do
> > everything they can to do it as fast as possible. Quality and accuracy
> > are secondary. I work in a flat rate shop. And hate it.
>
> > You can do a crude toe in/out adjustment at home with just a tape
> > measure, that might get you by. Ballpark, again, to keep the car
> > driveable. Camber and caster adjustments require some special tools or
> > fabrication of such, which I assume are outside of your scope for DIY
> > work right now.
>
> > Jan- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

When I lived in South San Francisco in 1968, I went to Eddie's
European Car Service in San Bruno. The guy I bought my 1970 bug from
also went to Eddie's up to a few years ago when I bought the bug. I
see he is still in business and the same Eddie is still the owner. I
would HIGHLY recomend him. I was a high school kid in 1968 and he
never ripped me off. If he has been in business at the same location
for 40 years, he must be doing something right.

European Car Service
928 El Camino Real
San Bruno, CA 94066
(650) 589-0233

On Sat, 27 Sep 2008 05:39:21 +0200, Jan Andersson
> wrote:

> Sam wrote:
>> I have 2 dilemmas (a quartlemma?). 1) I don't know if I should have a
>> lot of the front-end work (i.e. tie-rod end and king pin replaced)
>> done simultaneously, or just the essential. 2) I don't know who to
>> bring the car to.
>> 1) I have a 1965 Ghia (with a 1600cc dual-port engine). When I bought
>> it ~6 months ago, I had a lot of work done on it (transmission
>> rebuild, breaks fixed, wheel barrings replaced). Yesterday, I took it
>> to a second mechanic and we noticed that right (passenger-side) inner
>> tie-rod end is very worn. When we moved the right wheel, the
>> connection to the steering connector was very sloppy. It looks
>> dangerous and I want to replace it. But should I have the other tie-
>> rod ends replaced at the same time, even if they look OK? The left
>> outer tie-rod end boot is a little cracked.
>> Both mechanics noticed play in the left king pin, but were able to
>> grease the king pin and eliminate most of the play. It doesn't look as
>> dire as the tie-rod end, on the other side, but should I replace the
>> king pin and linking pins at the same time? I'd like to do the minimum
>> to be safe and prevent further damage.
>> From reading the Muir book, it seems that wheel alignment after one
>> tie-rod end replacement shouldn't be too complicated. If I had all the
>> parts worked on, then alignment might be more difficult and costly.
>> 2) Grrrr. I need to buy tools, especially a jack, and start learning
>> how to do this stuff on my own. But the tie-rod end doesn't look like
>> it can wait for that.
>> Does anybody know a great aircooled VW mechanic in the San Francisco
>> Bay Area (I'm in Palo Alto, on the Penninsula)? I'm not sure I should
>> go back to the first mechanic (who didn't notice the dangerous tie-rod
>> end) or the second mechanic (who doesn't seem to do a TON of work on
>> aircooled, but probably could do the job 1000 times better than I
>> could).
>> -Sam
>> P.S. I sent this same question to the KG listserv, so I hope too many
>> people didn't have to see it twice!
>
>
> You can do the tie rod yourself. You could rent (free, you get your
> deposit back) a puller from some auto parts stores, down here in Florida
> Autozone and Advance Discount Autoparts have a free loaner tool program.
> They don't cost a ton to buy either, and the same tool should also be
> able to pop the ball joints off the spindle. A couple different designs
> exist, that you turn with a wrench to work them. Or you could buy a
> cheap pickle fork and hit it with a big hammer to pop the joint loose.
> I also have a pickle fork kit that attaches to an air hammer... no
> manual labor: BRRRRAAAPPP and it's off (around $50 at Sears)
>
> before you start turning the tie rod end off the rod, clean the rod
> somewhere in the middle, and mark it with something. Tape, marker,
> paint.. whatever works. Then measure the distance from your mark to the
> center of the tie rod socket cup/cover. You want the new tie rod end
> screwed in so the distance stays the same, that way your alignment won't
> change much at all. (if it was out of spec to begin with, it will
> still be out).
>
> I would do all the tie rod ends at the same time, parts aren't that
> expensive and once you've done one, you know how to do it and the rest
> won't take as long to replace. If you did only one, and took the car to
> a shop for an alignment and they found other tie rod ends with wear and
> play, you wasted your time.
>
> A cheap little 2-ton rolling floor jack is all you need for small
> repairs on a beetle, you should be able to find one for $25-25. Worth
> every penny. For this job, a jackstand or two would be nice too.
>
>
> If you have play in the tie rod ends, a professional alignment cannot be
> done. (if someone says they can, they are stealing your money. I do
> alignments for a living, among other things).
>
> I don't know link pin front ends well enough to say how much play is
> allowed and normal, and how much that would affect alignment. I know
> excess ball joint play makes alignment difficult, or just impossible.
> You can get it sort of in the ballpark, enough to make the vehicle
> driveable, but that's about it.
>
> An alignment shop would REALLY appreciate it if all the tie rod nuts and
> ends move easily on the rods, instead of being rusted solid. Some shops
> may tell you they cannot be adjusted due to rust. Some may charge extra.
> Go to a shop that charges flat rates, i.e. list prices for labor, if
> you want to eliminate surprises. Tip the mechanic! he is losing money if
> he has to fight with rusty, stuck parts. Downside is, they will do
> everything they can to do it as fast as possible. Quality and accuracy
> are secondary. I work in a flat rate shop. And hate it.
>
> You can do a crude toe in/out adjustment at home with just a tape
> measure, that might get you by. Ballpark, again, to keep the car
> driveable.

You can infact get the measures using a tape measure quite close, very
common to do on Go-Karts and race cars if on a budget.
I have used both, tape measure and a portable beam/arrow thing tool, ****e
if working on race cars as they are to close to the ground to allow this
tool being shifted from front of the tires to the rear of them.

Scribe a sharp and clear cross in the middle of the threads of both front
tires, line the two markings up on the same height 90 deg to the ground,
take a measure, roll the car so the markings turn up a 180deg the opposite
way, measure away and subtract..
Sounds crude, but with a tad of experience it is very very close. Only
drawback, you need to be two.

J

Camber and caster adjustments require some special tools or
> fabrication of such, which I assume are outside of your scope for DIY
> work right now.
>
> Jan



--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

P.J.Berg wrote:


<SNIP>


>
> It is amazing how some of these vehicles have stood up to negligence
> though.
> Being very young at not attentive, I had a front wheel lock up in turns
> only. The nut holding the outer bearing/drum+inner bearing was about to
> come off the spindle..
> And I had only used it for a week that way..
>
> That being said, I bent a rear axle on my -56 T1 during the winter,
> being mechanicaly inclined and with a friend who was a Bus mechanic we
> tore the tranny out of the car.
> Little did we know that you had to split the tranny on the -56 to
> replace the axles, we managed to get it together somehow.
> If you read a proper shop-manual for those old trannys, you would notice
> a few critical measures, I guess we where lucky.
> The only bitch I can remember was a constant oil leak into the left
> rear drum, you got used to the "Three wheel twist" after a while.
> Either I had gotten the order of shims/spacers/gaskets wrong twice, Or
> the axle had streched,or the drum shrunk .
>
> The great thing about early air-cooled VW's you could actually get away
> with these things.
>
> My uncle raced Formula Vee and Formula 3 cars being young, him and my
> grandfather(His father) loaded the Formula V car onto a single cab Vw
> pickup and drove from Oslo to Monaco! Somwhere in France the pickup's
> engine said goodbye and left them stranded. The story goes: A Norwegian
> on the FISA(?) board passed them and asked if it was anything he could
> do to help?
> Neither my grandfather or his son spoke much lingo at all, so they
> asked whetter he knew of a scrapyard where they could look for a donor
> engine.
> End of the story, less than one hour later they where on their way!
> A side note: Being stranded with little or no cash the future did not
> look to bright, so my uncle had started to unbolt the Formula Vee
> engine to transplant into the pickup when this helpful individual
> turned up.
>
> When in Monaco they slept under the tarp of the Pickup in the pit area,
> whilst the rest enjoyed the local hotels.
>
> And as a side note, my uncle took part in Monaco GP twice, If I have
> got it right, one time in Formula Vee and once in Formula 3, 1967 is a
> year I know for sure, the other is either a year earlier or later..
>
> I grew up on these stories, and got to see one or two of the race cars
> before he quit, being four or five at the time it was better than sex?
> Nah, to early, food? Candy? Overdoze of Banana Split? Yeah, that must
> be it.
>
> J.
>

HaHaHa!!!! Great stories!

Please write some more of them.


Speedy Jim
http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/

Hi guys,
When I remove tie rod ends I take a pickle to both ends and turn the bar
over on a board and make a mark with both grease fittings and measure
between the marks then make up the new assembly and measure again.
I beleive the grease fittings are on center with the stud and castle nut
..
I paid a guy $80.00 to fix a car and that is how he did it and I drove
40,000 mi. on a set of tires ,maybe it was just luck but it worked on an
old Nash Rambler-Beep Beep.




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