General Jeep Questions

I'm back in the market for my 3rd Jeep. I've owned an '88 YJ 6cyl and an '85
CJ 4cyl. The CJ was crap (bad engine, among other things) and the YJ wasn't
too bad except for that dreaded carb. Anywho, I'd like to spend up to around
$6500 CDN for one but I'd like to do it right this time. Hence, I have a few
questions:

1. I know the 87 to 90 carbs are crap on the YJ's. What are some advantages
and disadvantages to the following:
- 87-90 with a swapped in Weber
- 91-95 with fuel injection
- pre 87 CJ ...do I keep it stock? rip out computer? swap in something?

2. I hear a lot of bad about the Puegot trannies in the YJ line. Is this
just for the 87-90 ones or does it continue up to 95? What about the CJ
trannies? I've heard the 3speed autos are good for off-roading. For some
reason I'm hesitant to buy an auto ...is this unjustified?

3. I bought one 4cyl 2.5L and everyone told me afterwards that it's a
mistake to buy any 4cyl Jeeps. I've noticed anything with a 4 is pretty
cheap compared to a 6 or 8. Is this because the 4 doesn't have enough power
for a modified Jeep? What engines are the best? 4.0L hi output, 4.2L, old CJ
6cyl, CJ 304 V8?

4. Are fiberglass tubs good for offroad, especially strength-wise? I live in
the salt belt of Canada and so anything with a metal body rusts to hell but
I've heard some horror stories of the glass tubs offroad.

5. Are there any particular lift kits/body kits or other mods that I should
watch out for? Any brand names or styles of doing them that will cause
problems?

6. Anything else?

Thanks!!!

On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 23:37:11 GMT, "griffin" >
wrote:

>I bought one 4cyl 2.5L and everyone told me afterwards that it's a
>mistake to buy any 4cyl Jeeps. I've noticed anything with a 4 is pretty
>cheap compared to a 6 or 8. Is this because the 4 doesn't have enough power
>for a modified Jeep? What engines are the best? 4.0L hi output, 4.2L, old CJ
>6cyl, CJ 304 V8?


The 2.5 is not a bad motor and is a pretty sturdy mill. (it is based
off the old 232/258 block like 4.0 is) I have one in a 2000 Cherokee
that I bought new that wife dirves to work and such and it has over
80K miles on it now and it has been very reliable and never failed to
start and run well be it 20 below and near 100 out. It has stock sized
tires and stock 4.10 gears and it does fine. It does not have the
power to cruise 80 all day on hills but at lower speed and around twon
the engine is very torquey and pulls very well for its size especail
at lower RPM's. Where these engine "fail" as poor power plants off
road is that people lift them up and put big tires on them and never
bother to regear the axles. (they "think" they can tune fix this with
exhaust and intake but they cannot) If you had a Jeep with 35's and a
2.5 with some 4.88 or 5.13 gears it it, it would surprize you how well
it would do off road. It would not be a good high speed highway
cruiser (not because of RPM from gears but because of increased drag
from lift and tires vs power avaible) but it would be a fine off road
machine that would be lighter up front, easier to keep cool and use
less fuel off road extending the "fun time". I have been off roading
and driving 4x4 for over 35 years now and some on the most fun vehcile
I have had off road were smaller ones that were lighter and geared
deep. One exception to this was back in the later 70's I had a friend
in NC that had a old 52 Dodge miltary truck that looked like a jeep on
steriods. It was 100% original complete and in very fine order. It
had a flat head 6 banger that was good for about 70 HP or 80 HP so in
this 3 ton "jeep" with a engine driven winch on front of it. It hand a
total of 8 speeds did not care to go much over 40 MPH or so but it was
a TANK off road (max speed in first low was just a few MPH) and would
go anywhere you pointed it and if the hill was too steep to drive up,
you could use engine driven winch to pull you up with no worries of
winch overheating. I had a change to buy that thing back then and I
regret not doing it and storing it and bringing it out to play with
from time to time.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

Hmm ok, so as long as I change the gears to match any mods I do, then this
engine is good enough? I will only be using it as a "for fun" daily driver
in the summer just for light inner-city cruising around with the top half
off. The rest of the time it'll be used for mud offroading - nothing TOO
serious but I do need some power to get out of the thicker stuff.

Are there any differences between the 4's of the CJ/YJ/TJ line? The 4cyl
TJ's from '97 to '99 seem to go pretty cheap relatively speaking. I've seen
some around 100 to 120km for 8-9000.


"SnoMan" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 23:37:11 GMT, "griffin" >
> wrote:
>
> >I bought one 4cyl 2.5L and everyone told me afterwards that it's a
> >mistake to buy any 4cyl Jeeps. I've noticed anything with a 4 is pretty
> >cheap compared to a 6 or 8. Is this because the 4 doesn't have enough
power
> >for a modified Jeep? What engines are the best? 4.0L hi output, 4.2L, old
CJ
> >6cyl, CJ 304 V8?
>
>
> The 2.5 is not a bad motor and is a pretty sturdy mill. (it is based
> off the old 232/258 block like 4.0 is) I have one in a 2000 Cherokee
> that I bought new that wife dirves to work and such and it has over
> 80K miles on it now and it has been very reliable and never failed to
> start and run well be it 20 below and near 100 out. It has stock sized
> tires and stock 4.10 gears and it does fine. It does not have the
> power to cruise 80 all day on hills but at lower speed and around twon
> the engine is very torquey and pulls very well for its size especail
> at lower RPM's. Where these engine "fail" as poor power plants off
> road is that people lift them up and put big tires on them and never
> bother to regear the axles. (they "think" they can tune fix this with
> exhaust and intake but they cannot) If you had a Jeep with 35's and a
> 2.5 with some 4.88 or 5.13 gears it it, it would surprize you how well
> it would do off road. It would not be a good high speed highway
> cruiser (not because of RPM from gears but because of increased drag
> from lift and tires vs power avaible) but it would be a fine off road
> machine that would be lighter up front, easier to keep cool and use
> less fuel off road extending the "fun time". I have been off roading
> and driving 4x4 for over 35 years now and some on the most fun vehcile
> I have had off road were smaller ones that were lighter and geared
> deep. One exception to this was back in the later 70's I had a friend
> in NC that had a old 52 Dodge miltary truck that looked like a jeep on
> steriods. It was 100% original complete and in very fine order. It
> had a flat head 6 banger that was good for about 70 HP or 80 HP so in
> this 3 ton "jeep" with a engine driven winch on front of it. It hand a
> total of 8 speeds did not care to go much over 40 MPH or so but it was
> a TANK off road (max speed in first low was just a few MPH) and would
> go anywhere you pointed it and if the hill was too steep to drive up,
> you could use engine driven winch to pull you up with no worries of
> winch overheating. I had a change to buy that thing back then and I
> regret not doing it and storing it and bringing it out to play with
> from time to time.
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com
>

griffin wrote:
> I'm back in the market for my 3rd Jeep. I've owned an '88 YJ 6cyl and an '85
> CJ 4cyl. The CJ was crap (bad engine, among other things) and the YJ wasn't
> too bad except for that dreaded carb. Anywho, I'd like to spend up to around
> $6500 CDN for one but I'd like to do it right this time. Hence, I have a few
> questions:
>
> 1. I know the 87 to 90 carbs are crap on the YJ's. What are some advantages
> and disadvantages to the following:
> - 87-90 with a swapped in Weber
> - 91-95 with fuel injection
> - pre 87 CJ ...do I keep it stock? rip out computer? swap in something?

The carb from 1982 to 90 is pretty much the same one. It 'is' a
Weber-Carter BBD according to the cast on the float bowl.

I don't find 'any' trouble at all making any of these year's carbs just
purr. I can go vertical up sand pit walls and hold 400 rpm as I chug
to the top, so can any others I have tuned. We also get over 20 mpg
highway 'and' pass Canadian emissions.

The big trick is to follow the tune up schedule. The carb is supposed
to get a kit every time the engine gets new or refreshed spark plugs.

No one does this then they can't understand why a 20 year old carb runs
like crap.

For all these years, it is easy to get rid of the computer which you
have to do if you swap the carb out anyway or it will run like a pig and
drink gas. That is the 'Nutter' bypass.

>
> 2. I hear a lot of bad about the Puegot trannies in the YJ line. Is this
> just for the 87-90 ones or does it continue up to 95? What about the CJ
> trannies? I've heard the 3speed autos are good for off-roading. For some
> reason I'm hesitant to buy an auto ...is this unjustified?

We have 315K km on our 88's Peugeot tranny. The clutch has been
sometimes leaking fluid out for years and sometime not, but it still
goes fine.

The CJ's had solid trannys, mine has the Borg Warner T5.

>
> 3. I bought one 4cyl 2.5L and everyone told me afterwards that it's a
> mistake to buy any 4cyl Jeeps. I've noticed anything with a 4 is pretty
> cheap compared to a 6 or 8. Is this because the 4 doesn't have enough power
> for a modified Jeep? What engines are the best? 4.0L hi output, 4.2L, old CJ
> 6cyl, CJ 304 V8?

Yup, a 4 is lacking for modified vehicles if the gears aren't changed,
other than that I have wheeled with a bunch of 4 bangers and didn't
notice it at all.

>
> 4. Are fiberglass tubs good for offroad, especially strength-wise? I live in
> the salt belt of Canada and so anything with a metal body rusts to hell but
> I've heard some horror stories of the glass tubs offroad.

Well, I have some some serious off roading here in Canada including
having the rubber side up a couple times and my 'glass body is doing
pretty good. I did manage to crack the glued seam where the firewall
meets the floor in one roll over and crack the door post in an argument
with a tree. Easily fixed.

I got a sweet body made from a gent near Kingston Ontario. Sucker has
diamond plate in the firewall and a 1" waterproof plywood core in the
floorboards sandwiched between the double shell. I got the one piece
front flip clip for it.

Everything fit on perfect too including the hard doors and top and I fit
my 'Laredo' chrome grill insert into the front clip no problem.

>
> 5. Are there any particular lift kits/body kits or other mods that I should
> watch out for? Any brand names or styles of doing them that will cause
> problems?

I had a local truck spring shop order in a new set of CJ springs. The
took the pack apart and arched them for a 2.5" lift while replacing the
top free leaf with a pre-arched 'keeper' spring.

The took my old front spring pack apart, arched that with another keeper
spring to match the new backs.

This was in 2000 and it had held perfectly.

>
> 6. Anything else?
>

Good luck!

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

> > 3. I bought one 4cyl 2.5L and everyone told me afterwards that it's a
> > mistake to buy any 4cyl Jeeps. I've noticed anything with a 4 is pretty
> > cheap compared to a 6 or 8. Is this because the 4 doesn't have enough
power
> > for a modified Jeep? What engines are the best? 4.0L hi output, 4.2L,
old CJ
> > 6cyl, CJ 304 V8?
>
> Yup, a 4 is lacking for modified vehicles if the gears aren't changed,
> other than that I have wheeled with a bunch of 4 bangers and didn't
> notice it at all.

I don't need any *crazy* mods but I'd like to put a 2.5" skyjacker spring
lift and throw some 33" BFG MT's on. Should I change the gears for this? Is
this a bad lift idea? Anything you'd recommend?

griffin wrote:
>>> 3. I bought one 4cyl 2.5L and everyone told me afterwards that it's a
>>> mistake to buy any 4cyl Jeeps. I've noticed anything with a 4 is pretty
>>> cheap compared to a 6 or 8. Is this because the 4 doesn't have enough
> power
>>> for a modified Jeep? What engines are the best? 4.0L hi output, 4.2L,
> old CJ
>>> 6cyl, CJ 304 V8?
>> Yup, a 4 is lacking for modified vehicles if the gears aren't changed,
>> other than that I have wheeled with a bunch of 4 bangers and didn't
>> notice it at all.
>
> I don't need any *crazy* mods but I'd like to put a 2.5" skyjacker spring
> lift and throw some 33" BFG MT's on. Should I change the gears for this? Is
> this a bad lift idea? Anything you'd recommend?
>
>

I don't mind forgetting I have a 5th gear so I don't lug my engine with
my 33's and 3.31 gears, but then I have a 'glass body and the 258 so it
goes nice. I can still use 5th, but it costs gas, about 5 mpg better
without it.

Off road we have low range so never have issues.

As mentioned, 'I' had a big truck spring shop do my lift. They do not
sell gold plated springs like the 4x4 shops do or use platinum tools
like the specialty shops also use. :-)

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Mike Romain > wrote:

> As mentioned, 'I' had a big truck spring shop do my lift. They do
> not sell gold plated springs like the 4x4 shops do or use platinum
> tools like the specialty shops also use. :-)

That's bad, it means your shop can't send the kids through Harvard on
the profit from a 2" lift, you didn't contribute to the economy nearly
as much as you should have.

In other news, I had a transmission fluid leak on the '93 GC, it was up
front where the transmission cooler lines connect to the transmission
cooler. I took it to a shop that I trust and they tightened the hose
clamps so I'm guilty of the same failure to contribute to the economy,
I should have taken it to the dealer who would have replaced the
transmission, radiator, cooler and then sold me a 2007 GC Limited.

Just think, if I'd done the right thing, I'd have a brand new GC with a
30 year mortgage..... you can't imagine how guilty I feel! <GD&R>


--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html

XS11E wrote:
> Mike Romain > wrote:
>
>> As mentioned, 'I' had a big truck spring shop do my lift. They do
>> not sell gold plated springs like the 4x4 shops do or use platinum
>> tools like the specialty shops also use. :-)
>
> That's bad, it means your shop can't send the kids through Harvard on
> the profit from a 2" lift, you didn't contribute to the economy nearly
> as much as you should have.
>
> In other news, I had a transmission fluid leak on the '93 GC, it was up
> front where the transmission cooler lines connect to the transmission
> cooler. I took it to a shop that I trust and they tightened the hose
> clamps so I'm guilty of the same failure to contribute to the economy,
> I should have taken it to the dealer who would have replaced the
> transmission, radiator, cooler and then sold me a 2007 GC Limited.
>
> Just think, if I'd done the right thing, I'd have a brand new GC with a
> 30 year mortgage..... you can't imagine how guilty I feel! <GD&R>
>
>

I also wanted the stock springs because I have the hardtop package with
the big spring packs. I can load it full with roof racks and a back
carrier rack and it just makes it ride smooth.... I run full usually on
trips.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 15:38:03 -0400, Mike Romain >
wrote:

>I don't mind forgetting I have a 5th gear so I don't lug my engine with
>my 33's and 3.31 gears, but then I have a 'glass body and the 258 so it
>goes nice. I can still use 5th, but it costs gas, about 5 mpg better
>without it.

This guy is so full of it. He thinks 3.31 gear with a 33's is a GREAT
combo and he does not even know how to change a diff cover gasket let
along a gear set or what it can do. DO NOT take his advise and ham
string your on and off road performance. People like Mike are why some
complain about needing bigger motors because they fail to understand
the importance of gear ratio. I will not even get into the effect the
tall gears have on wheel traction due to torque inpout into a tall
ratio with bi tires because this completely escapes Mike because he
beilieve ina magic force that keep both wheel planted the same
regardless of drive shaft input torque. He does not even like know
what Newton Law is let alone how it applies here


>Off road we have low range so never have issues.

Another stupid answer, 33's without regear reducing power about 15 to
20% in a ALL gears and ranges if you do not regear.

>
>As mentioned, 'I' had a big truck spring shop do my lift. They do not
>sell gold plated springs like the 4x4 shops do or use platinum tools
>like the specialty shops also use. :-)


Yep you talk big but farm everything out.

YOue may call this a attack but when some one is looking for advise
starting out they do not need your "foorget 5th gear and use low
range" as the right way to do things. You give Jeep owners a bad name.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

SnoMan wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 15:38:03 -0400, Mike Romain >
> wrote:
>
>> I don't mind forgetting I have a 5th gear so I don't lug my engine with
>> my 33's and 3.31 gears, but then I have a 'glass body and the 258 so it
>> goes nice. I can still use 5th, but it costs gas, about 5 mpg better
>> without it.
>
> This guy is so full of it.

SnoMan, once again all you will get is abuse if you continue to stalk my
posts. You are a brain dead idiot which you have proven over and over
and over.

You have also proven beyond any reasonable doubt that you are totally
insane and give out advise that will kill people.

Yes, I compromise unneeded things like lower gears due to funds and use
my gears. I still get 11L/100km or 23 mpg using only 4th as a top gear
foole! And I can think of 'much' better ways to blow 2 grand than for
unneeded gears.

No I cannot fix my Jeep much anymore because I got smashed up in a car
accident.

Yes I farm out 'specialized' work like gear setups and springs to
'professionals' with the right tools 'even when I could work on them'.

Now as to how many Jeep engines I have helped folks from this newsgroup
rebuild in a snowbank in the driveway, well... They 'all' are still on
the road going strong...

No I am 'not' stupid enough to use a shop that has platinum tools or
sells gold plated parts, which you seem to advocate.

Yes, I 'use' my shift into 4 high at any legal speed option that my Jeep
came with in the winter rather than stop in the middle of a highway in a
snowstorm to shift gears like 'YOU' advocate. (That proves beyond any
reasonable doubt that you are totally insane with no regard to anyone's
safety!)

Yes I goose my tires a little in reverse to unwind the drivetrain if it
binds up rather that stopping on the highway in a storm to jack up a
tire and let the stress off 'easy' as you advocate and actually suckered
someone into. (more Deadly advise) 'My' Jeep can take that with no
problems, I don't drive wrecked 'snoplows' that can't spin a tire
without exploding like 'you' have stated yours will do.

Now once again screw off!

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)