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#1
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Gas prices
Today it was announced that gasoline buyers in California should get used to
the idea that prices are headed toward the $4.00 + per gallon range soon --- in fact in some places it's already here. I saw a shot of a price menu at a gas station on the news this afternoon that showed premium at $4.149. I'll be taking a 2,200 mile road trip in the next few weeks so this is lousy news but I know prices in other states are apt to be lower than in my home state of California for a couple of reasons. One is that California's clean air regs require a different gas formulation than other states and it is supposedly more expensive for the refiner/retailer to comply here than it is in other states. Factoid number two is that California places a higher than normal tax burden on each gallon than other states, ostensibly to pay for other important transportation-related improvements or maintenance to state highway systems and to pay for alternative transportation measures to relieve traffic and reduce emmisions but --- let's not kid ourselves --- most of the additional revenue goes into California's General Fund and winds up getting spent on other "important" non-automotive, non transportation related budget items by the scum politicians in the state. At any rate I expect a price drop in gas once I get outside California but in the long run we'd all better get used to the idea that we'll be paying European type prices soon. An ironic fact: There are 14 refineries in California, several of which have been offline due to unexpected repair or maintenance issues recently, so supposedly there is a "shortage" of gasoline available at retailers which of course fuels higher prices at the pump because demand exceeds supply. But weirdly enough --- a TV news reporter dug up the fact that gasoline sales so far this year are 3% higher than the same time last year. So much for the "shortage". There's plenty of gas to go around in spite of the suspicious shortage the refiners hold up as an excuse for their higher prices. Another issue is that if there truly IS a shortage (which apparently there in fact isn't) then the oil industry can be faulted for failing to foresee and plan for maintenance of their refinery assets on a timely basis and avoid all the "unexpected" or "emergency" repairs that supposedly impede an adequate flow of product to the pump. So in effect the oil industry is ironically being rewarded with higher prices and profits because they failed miserably to maintain their assets and "misread" demand. Any other business making those kind of mistakes would be punished by either a loss of profitability or being chased out of business. But the oil industry? They are encouraged to do everything wrong because it increases their protitability. There is just something fundamentally wrong and fishy about all this. I even suspect that when unfortunate "accidents" such as refinery fires occur, they may actually be staged events so that somebody can manipulate the friggin' "shortage" a little more. Anyway it's getting harder and harder to love automobiles anymore. Sorry for the rant. -- Paddy's Pig |
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#2
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Gas prices
On Mon, 7 May 2007 18:11:46 -0700, "Padraig" >
wrote: >Today it was announced that gasoline buyers in California should get used to >the idea that prices are headed toward the $4.00 + per gallon range soon --- >in fact in some places it's already here. I saw a shot of a price menu at a >gas station on the news this afternoon that showed premium at $4.149. > >I'll be taking a 2,200 mile road trip in the next few weeks so this is lousy >news but I know prices in other states are apt to be lower than in my home >state of California for a couple of reasons. One is that California's clean >air regs require a different gas formulation than other states and it is >supposedly more expensive for the refiner/retailer to comply here than it is >in other states. > >Factoid number two is that California places a higher than normal tax burden >on each gallon than other states, ostensibly to pay for other important >transportation-related improvements or maintenance to state highway systems >and to pay for alternative transportation measures to relieve traffic and >reduce emmisions but --- let's not kid ourselves --- most of the additional >revenue goes into California's General Fund and winds up getting spent on >other "important" non-automotive, non transportation related budget items by >the scum politicians in the state. > >At any rate I expect a price drop in gas once I get outside California but >in the long run we'd all better get used to the idea that we'll be paying >European type prices soon. > >An ironic fact: There are 14 refineries in California, several of which have >been offline due to unexpected repair or maintenance issues recently, so >supposedly there is a "shortage" of gasoline available at retailers which of >course fuels higher prices at the pump because demand exceeds supply. But >weirdly enough --- a TV news reporter dug up the fact that gasoline sales so >far this year are 3% higher than the same time last year. So much for the >"shortage". There's plenty of gas to go around in spite of the suspicious >shortage the refiners hold up as an excuse for their higher prices. Another >issue is that if there truly IS a shortage (which apparently there in fact >isn't) then the oil industry can be faulted for failing to foresee and plan >for maintenance of their refinery assets on a timely basis and avoid all the >"unexpected" or "emergency" repairs that supposedly impede an adequate flow >of product to the pump. So in effect the oil industry is ironically being >rewarded with higher prices and profits because they failed miserably to >maintain their assets and "misread" demand. Any other business making those >kind of mistakes would be punished by either a loss of profitability or >being chased out of business. But the oil industry? They are encouraged to >do everything wrong because it increases their protitability. > >There is just something fundamentally wrong and fishy about all this. I >even suspect that when unfortunate "accidents" such as refinery fires occur, >they may actually be staged events so that somebody can manipulate the >friggin' "shortage" a little more. > >Anyway it's getting harder and harder to love automobiles anymore. > >Sorry for the rant. These are exactly the same points I was making to a friend the other day when I went on my own rant about the oil industry. Specifically, that they are reaping record profits while they don't seem to plan for maintenance, repairs, or other improvements to their infrastructure. By the way, I live in northern Wisconsin and paid 3.349 for premium yesterday, which is the lowest price in my town for that grade. Wisconsin also has one of the highest gas taxes in the country. If your travels take you in this direction, my experience has been that prices in Minnesota, Iowa and Missouri are cheaper than they are here. YMMV in Illinois. Mark |
#3
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Gas prices
"Padraig" > wrote in message ... > Today it was announced that gasoline buyers in California should get used to > the idea that prices are headed toward the $4.00 + per gallon range soon --- > in fact in some places it's already here. I saw a shot of a price menu at a > gas station on the news this afternoon that showed premium at $4.149. > > I'll be taking a 2,200 mile road trip in the next few weeks so this is lousy > news but I know prices in other states are apt to be lower than in my home > state of California for a couple of reasons. One is that California's clean > air regs require a different gas formulation than other states and it is > supposedly more expensive for the refiner/retailer to comply here than it is > in other states. > > Factoid number two is that California places a higher than normal tax burden > on each gallon than other states, ostensibly to pay for other important > transportation-related improvements or maintenance to state highway systems > and to pay for alternative transportation measures to relieve traffic and > reduce emmisions but --- let's not kid ourselves --- most of the additional > revenue goes into California's General Fund and winds up getting spent on > other "important" non-automotive, non transportation related budget items by > the scum politicians in the state. > > At any rate I expect a price drop in gas once I get outside California but > in the long run we'd all better get used to the idea that we'll be paying > European type prices soon. > > An ironic fact: There are 14 refineries in California, several of which have > been offline due to unexpected repair or maintenance issues recently, so > supposedly there is a "shortage" of gasoline available at retailers which of > course fuels higher prices at the pump because demand exceeds supply. But > weirdly enough --- a TV news reporter dug up the fact that gasoline sales so > far this year are 3% higher than the same time last year. So much for the > "shortage". There's plenty of gas to go around in spite of the suspicious > shortage the refiners hold up as an excuse for their higher prices. Another > issue is that if there truly IS a shortage (which apparently there in fact > isn't) then the oil industry can be faulted for failing to foresee and plan > for maintenance of their refinery assets on a timely basis and avoid all the > "unexpected" or "emergency" repairs that supposedly impede an adequate flow > of product to the pump. So in effect the oil industry is ironically being > rewarded with higher prices and profits because they failed miserably to > maintain their assets and "misread" demand. Any other business making those > kind of mistakes would be punished by either a loss of profitability or > being chased out of business. But the oil industry? They are encouraged to > do everything wrong because it increases their protitability. > > There is just something fundamentally wrong and fishy about all this. I > even suspect that when unfortunate "accidents" such as refinery fires occur, > they may actually be staged events so that somebody can manipulate the > friggin' "shortage" a little more. > > Anyway it's getting harder and harder to love automobiles anymore. > > Sorry for the rant. > -- > Paddy's Pig Exactly my sentiments on the subject. Dan > > |
#4
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Gas prices
Today, Blue Oval/Dan Edwards made these interesting comments ...
> > "Padraig" > wrote in message > ... >> Today it was announced that gasoline buyers in California >> should get used to the idea that prices are headed toward the >> $4.00 + per gallon range soon --- in fact in some places >> it's already here. I saw a shot of a price menu at a gas >> station on the news this afternoon that showed premium at >> $4.149. >> >> I'll be taking a 2,200 mile road trip in the next few weeks >> so this is lousy news but I know prices in other states are >> apt to be lower than in my home state of California for a >> couple of reasons. One is that California's clean air regs >> require a different gas formulation than other states and it >> is supposedly more expensive for the refiner/retailer to >> comply here than it is in other states. >> >> Factoid number two is that California places a higher than >> normal tax burden on each gallon than other states, >> ostensibly to pay for other important transportation-related >> improvements or maintenance to state highway systems and to >> pay for alternative transportation measures to relieve >> traffic and reduce emmisions but --- let's not kid ourselves >> --- most of the additional revenue goes into California's >> General Fund and winds up getting spent on other "important" >> non-automotive, non transportation related budget items by >> the scum politicians in the state. >> >> At any rate I expect a price drop in gas once I get outside >> California but in the long run we'd all better get used to >> the idea that we'll be paying European type prices soon. >> >> An ironic fact: There are 14 refineries in California, >> several of which have been offline due to unexpected repair >> or maintenance issues recently, so supposedly there is a >> "shortage" of gasoline available at retailers which of course >> fuels higher prices at the pump because demand exceeds >> supply. But weirdly enough --- a TV news reporter dug up the >> fact that gasoline sales so far this year are 3% higher than >> the same time last year. So much for the "shortage". >> There's plenty of gas to go around in spite of the suspicious >> shortage the refiners hold up as an excuse for their higher >> prices. Another issue is that if there truly IS a shortage >> (which apparently there in fact isn't) then the oil industry >> can be faulted for failing to foresee and plan for >> maintenance of their refinery assets on a timely basis and >> avoid all the "unexpected" or "emergency" repairs that >> supposedly impede an adequate flow of product to the pump. >> So in effect the oil industry is ironically being rewarded >> with higher prices and profits because they failed miserably >> to maintain their assets and "misread" demand. Any other >> business making those kind of mistakes would be punished by >> either a loss of profitability or being chased out of >> business. But the oil industry? They are encouraged to do >> everything wrong because it increases their protitability. >> >> There is just something fundamentally wrong and fishy about >> all this. I even suspect that when unfortunate "accidents" >> such as refinery fires occur, they may actually be staged >> events so that somebody can manipulate the friggin' >> "shortage" a little more. >> >> Anyway it's getting harder and harder to love automobiles >> anymore. >> >> Sorry for the rant. >> -- >> Paddy's Pig > > Exactly my sentiments on the subject. > If you simply followed the inflation line from the 1960s to now, gas should be in the range of $4.75-5.50. And, if you look at the progress in fuel efficiency of vehicles sold from when CAFE was enacted in 1975 to today, you would see that its goal was achieved, getting the fleet from about 11-13 mpg to 27.5 mpg. Of course, there was a loophole for trucks. Now, consider that in every year since 1975 except 2, total miles driven has steadily increased and the size/weight of vehicles has increased as people moved from smaller cars to trucks, SUVs, now bigger CUVs and performance cars like my Charger. But, more importantly, they moved farther out from the cities and close-in suburbs and thus farther from work and shoppping. So, say what you like about conspiracies of the oil companies or we went to war in Iraq for oil or whathave you. Just remember the primary tenet of microeconomics 101 - supply and demand. You wants it, you pays for it. Everytime gas spikes 25 cents, there are new cries to force the car companies to build more fuel efficient cars and trucks, and more people suddently get religion and buy that hybrid they've been admiring. Then, when prices settle back, people forget all about being green and saving money, But, beware, once the big bear in Washlincoln D.C. enacts a replacement for CAFE it will become yet another of hundreds of laws impossible to ever repeal and will result in tens of thousands more lost American manufacturing jobs in all segments, not just the car industry. I'll leave you with this thought: My 1970 Dodge Challenger R/T 383 Magnum was about a MSRP $5,000 car. It had the usual toys for the day but not power windows or seats. Gas was going up and down as stations had what were called gas wars in those days but it was generally in the 25-45 cent range. My 2007 Charger, granted with many more toys, stickered at just under $36K - a 7X increase! - yet gas right now is $3.05 here, an increase of about 6X. If I go to the high side and say that gas is 50 cents, a 7X increase would be $3.50 but if I look at the CPI for those years, I would see that the price should be in the high $4 range. Need more be said? As to not loving cars anymore, there's little evidence of that. Remember when you first started driving? How many options did you car have? Now, if you don't have PS, PB 4-wheel discs, auto trans, A/C, tinted glass, 6 disc MP3 CD player, power windows, power seats, leather, air bags all around, steel belted radial tires, electronics galore including compass & temp, running MPG, etc., perhaps a big engine, you don't even want the car. And, I'm not talking about an upscale car, I'm talking about a Honda Civic or Accord, a Saturn Aura, a Ford Fusion, a Chevy Malibu. Cars are far, far cleaner than when you started driving, and you now demand options only the upper crust bought on their Caddy, Lincoln, or Imp in those days. Somebody has to pay for this. One more thing to keep in mind: car companies whether domestic or foreign do NOT pay the freight on mandated safety, emissions, or CAFE upgrades, the BUYER pays. Little things add up, like low tire pressure sensors now mandatory and a new law pending in Congress to require power window switches so dumb mothers who leave kids in the car cars with the key on and the kid strangles in a window. Or, a new law being proposed to mandatorily show running mpg so the driver can evaluate their driving habits. Bottom line: if we want prices to go down - and remember folks, our prices even at today's levels are only 2/3 what Europeans pay - then WE must alter our driving habits. WE must stop buying 7,000 vehicles and drive alone shopping, WE must stop buying unnecessarily large, powerful cars - and that include me - when a smaller, more fuel efficient vehicle will do, and WE must stop the rush to live in BFE doubling or tripling the distance traveled to work or shop. There is NO conspiracy in any of this save the collective stupidity of all of us buyers who want more and more and more yet balk at the price it costs. Last item: I was next to a Caddy Escalade SUV, the extended one like a Chevy Suburban, at the gas station and asked the owner how he like it. He said "it's a great vehicle, I just don't like paying $90 to fill it up!" Well, Duh! You buy this huge vehicle that probably cost $60K+, drive around town in it alone and you have the gall to complain about the gas price? Dummy, didn't you know that BEFORE you bought the truck? -- HP, aka Jerry |
#5
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Gas prices
Today, Mark E. Bye made these interesting comments ...
> These are exactly the same points I was making to a friend the > other day when I went on my own rant about the oil industry. > Specifically, that they are reaping record profits while they > don't seem to plan for maintenance, repairs, or other > improvements to their infrastructure. > > By the way, I live in northern Wisconsin and paid 3.349 for > premium yesterday, which is the lowest price in my town for > that grade. Wisconsin also has one of the highest gas taxes in > the country. If your travels take you in this direction, my > experience has been that prices in Minnesota, Iowa and > Missouri are cheaper than they are here. YMMV in Illinois. > Premium was $3.35 yesterday here in MI. My 2007 Charger HEMI burns mid-grade, which was $3.25. What car(s) do you own that take premium and why do you think that the price is all that high? I bought a performance car because that's what I WANT, not what I need and I do NOT complain about the gas price. As I just related to Blue Oval, on inflation alone, gas should be in the high $4 range, so where is this giant conspiracy? As to profits, isn't that the goal of a corporation? And, gas prices vary VERY widely regionally for a number of reasons, but primarily distribution from central locations and regional requirements for blending the fuel for things like temperature or emissions. Want to pay less? Drive less in a much more fuel efficient vehicle. Think about it: in the mid-1960s when muscle cars ruled and gas was cheap, maybe as low as 25 cents or as high as 50 cents, a good yearly salary was $7-9,000 and those cars only cost $4K. But, in the city you were lucky to get 5-6 mpg and even at reasonable speeds on the highway, getting more than 7-9 mpg was pretty difficult. Same was true for the really large cars with large engines of the day. And, compared to the clean cars of today replete with every safety feature possible, driving in the 1960s was a dirty affair and downright dangerous. -- HP, aka Jerry |
#6
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Gas prices
On Tue, 08 May 2007 08:08:32 -0500, Mark E. Bye >
wrote: > >These are exactly the same points I was making to a friend the other >day when I went on my own rant about the oil industry. Specifically, >that they are reaping record profits while they don't seem to plan for >maintenance, repairs, or other improvements to their infrastructure. > > >Mark Mark, I work for a major instrumentation supplier to the oil industry. Your comments about not planning for maintenance, repairs, or other improvements to their infrastructure is just incorrect. In NW Ohio there are several larger refineries that I frequently call on. They are constantly trying to improve the refining process by trying new approaches in instrumentation. Sometimes a refinery has a "turn-around" to bring a unit down for maintenance. Usually a once per year process. This turn around costs the oil company a huge sum of money and lost production time. The costs of the items that must be replaced is also escalating. (Seen the price of copper recently?) Refining crude to gasoline is one of the most expensive and corrosive processes that I deal with, but one that we still currently need. I live in SW Ohio and the lower grade gas is $3.15 right now. I must agree with Jerry about that being "cheap" by comparison to anything else. Compare the inflated cost from 1960 to 2007 of almost any product and today's prices are higher, but the increase in the cost of a gallon of gas is low by comparison. Not being argumentative Mark, just pointing out some of the costs of doing business for an oil refinery. Have a good week. RS......... Tony |
#7
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Gas prices
I am not an expert on this subject, but I did see this chart of historic
American gas prices adjusted for inflation. With a few exceptions, Canadian gas prices are also historically higher than American, basically because of our higher taxes at the pump. It was $1.05.5 / litre this morning and the Canadian dollar is pegged at ..9048 American. The price/litre would then convert to 95.5¢ / litre American One American gallon = 3.7854 ltres Price in Canada of an American gallon in American dollars = .955 x 3.7854 = $3.61.5 |
#8
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Gas prices
Oops - $106.6 / litre
"vintage" > wrote in message ... >I am not an expert on this subject, but I did see this chart of historic >American gas prices adjusted for inflation. > With a few exceptions, Canadian gas prices are also historically higher > than American, basically because of our higher taxes at the pump. > It was $1.05.5 / litre this morning and the Canadian dollar is pegged at > .9048 American. > The price/litre would then convert to 95.5¢ / litre American > One American gallon = 3.7854 ltres > Price in Canada of an American gallon in American dollars = .955 x 3.7854 > = $3.61.5 > > > > |
#9
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Gas prices
On Tue, 8 May 2007 12:29:25 -0400, "vintage" > Amazingly
Replied without Prejudice below: :>I am not an expert on this subject, but I did see this chart of historic :>American gas prices adjusted for inflation. :>With a few exceptions, Canadian gas prices are also historically higher than :>American, basically because of our higher taxes at the pump. :>It was $1.05.5 / litre this morning and the Canadian dollar is pegged at :>.9048 American. :>The price/litre would then convert to 95.5¢ / litre American :>One American gallon = 3.7854 ltres :>Price in Canada of an American gallon in American dollars = .955 x 3.7854 = :>$3.61.5 :> :> Hey Fred, I don't remember the price being any where near that in the 50's, not saying you're wrong, but I can remember it going for 17.9 a gallon. Mike |
#10
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Gas prices
I have no idea Mike. Also, remember that those prices are adjusted for
inflation. "24Bit®" > wrote in message ... > On Tue, 8 May 2007 12:29:25 -0400, "vintage" > Amazingly > Replied without Prejudice below: > > :>I am not an expert on this subject, but I did see this chart of historic > :>American gas prices adjusted for inflation. > :>With a few exceptions, Canadian gas prices are also historically higher > than > :>American, basically because of our higher taxes at the pump. > :>It was $1.05.5 / litre this morning and the Canadian dollar is pegged at > :>.9048 American. > :>The price/litre would then convert to 95.5¢ / litre American > :>One American gallon = 3.7854 ltres > :>Price in Canada of an American gallon in American dollars = .955 x > 3.7854 = > :>$3.61.5 > :> > :> > Hey Fred, I don't remember the price being any where near that in the > 50's, > not saying you're wrong, but I can remember it going for 17.9 a gallon. > > Mike |
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